killuridols

9 hours ago, UYI4 said:

What still blows me away is how someone would even know about a storage locker for sale owned by a former associate of the band unless that person let them know, and also how all of these random ass people got ahold of these finished songs in the first place even before the lockers as obviously there’s a lot out there in complete form.  I listened to that SoundCloud thing.  Obviously people have and have heard a lot of finished with vocal material we didn’t know existed until now.  That guy said tons.  The entire thing is strange. 

I don't believe in "leaks" anymore. That was 15 years ago. Nowadays artist release a new song every two weeks and that's how it works. 

IMO, this is just a stunt from TB, to promote the upcoming shows. The timing is suspicious. I could also believe all those "random ass people" are connected to management or the record company and they function as non-traditional publicity when it's needed.

8 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

Michelle Young also mentioned her. Somebody thought Michelle Young was the Michelle in question. She replied it wasn't her but another Michelle and that they used to call her Little Michelle.

Do you have a link or can you post where Michelle Young talked about this? I don't remember.

On 15 de septiembre de 2019 at 5:06 PM, Fourteenbeers said:

Funny thing is, that without Stephanie Seymour Beta would've never crossed paths with Axl and would not be living a life as a member of Axl's "family". I'm not saying that she should be grateful to Stephanie or anything, it's all just matter of coincidence anyway... but IMO unfollowing because of a picture is pretty childish. 

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Beta achieved her goal of moving to the USA and work for rich people before Axl, so had not been Axl, would have been someone else. Plenty of rich and millionaires would have hired her services.

6 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

So now Izzy was there in the loft of the closet studio - only now he was with the girl that Axl had been fucking in the parking lot and who had stumbled out of the outhouse puking just before Axl had grabbed LM and ripped her clothes off. 

What is this? Did the 3rd part get posted? 

3 hours ago, Padme said:

I don't think we can't let any given person to make acussations without knowing who that person is

What do you need her real name for? Are you some kind of authority? I don't think you can ask for that information. Actually, I think it would be illegal to proceed in that way and you wouldn't get anything from it, because you don't know the name of the original accuser, so you wouldn't have a way to know if it is her or not.

3 hours ago, Padme said:

And the original woman in question had a day in court with Axl. She refused to testify. She didn't help her own case

 Let's assume it was really LM. She was willing to tell us about everything that took place. But she didn't want to tell the judge? The judge could've done something about it. We can't.

Right. But you don't have to be so literal about these things.

LM didn't come here for us to solve her problems. She just wanted to tell her side of the story now that she's got enough strength to talk about it. If she's that 15 years old girl who got abused by Axl under those circumstances, it is not hard to figure out why  she didn't speak up for herself at the time.

I get it is odd that she chose this forum to open up, a place with a majority of patriarchal male fans and a high rate of patriarchal females, it was sort of naive to think she would find a great amount of support here 

3 hours ago, Padme said:

Sorry, but I think she is just someone looking for attention or someone with a hidden agenda

Looking for attention?..Maybe... Doesn't she have a book coming up? 

A hidden agenda? .. like what? Money? Pff, lol, there's no way she'd get any money from this. Too much time has passed, she's not Steph nor Erin and she would need a very powerful assmble in order to make the world of rock stumble. But rock is dead right now, so her timing is wrong from the beginning.

31 minutes ago, Padme said:

 I don't get why people believed her. As far as I know she claimed to be the girl who was in this alledge incident with Axl. What evidence did she provide? My issue is not with you nor with any other forum member. I think the mods here should've been more careful. I never saw any evidence suggesting she is who she says she is. We can't allow people to come here and tell stories without any proof of their true identity nor any evidence about truthful information. Otherwise sooner or later we might end up in a big trouble. One thing is Slash talking about past events in his book. And another thing is some woman coming here out of nowhere.

Well, everybody got their reasons to believe her or not. I have mine and as I have always stated, if they had sex with minors, that solely fact constitutes rape, so to me there's not much to be discussed about that.

Now, if she is the same person that was mentioned in the books and magazines or not.... well... that question is valid too. But we are not the police, so we don't have any right to be asking her for evidence of her identity. At least myself, I would feel very akward asking her to show me her ID or something, and that wouldn't answer the question either, because we don't know the name of the person mentioned by GN'R members. So the only way to go about this is to either believe her or not, and that's all you can do

I repeat, we're not the police, we're not lawyers, we're not judges, we're not the justice. Trying to be that is wrong, in my opinion.

And I don't agree that she shouldn't be allowed to post here..... I mean, why? She is an adult now and she's responsible for her sayings. We are not. So how would we end up in a big trouble?
I know I wouldn't. None of us has nothing to do with that.

Slash is no one better or worse than this woman. He's just a famous guitarist in a famous band, but when it comes to law, I want to believe that he's just the same as the rest of the citizens. I don't see how his word is more valid than mine or yours.... that's not how things work...

1 hour ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

To be clear, she didn't say Steven or anybody from the band helped her with the miscarriage. She encountered Steven when she left the bathroom after the fact. Whether or not Steven noticed that something was off with her, he probably didn't realize it was because she had just miscarried, especially if he didn't even know she was pregnant.

LM said she was in a bad state when she came out of the bathroom. I think she says she went back to puke after the miscarriage.... Also, you think her clothes were all clean after that mess?

I'm sure Steven asked her why she was like that... her answer is a mistery, though it is not clear for me if the band knew or not that she had a miscarriage at the bathroom. I have no idea what the Troubadour looks inside or how many people fit in, but from what I saw in 2016, it is a small place.... in such a small place, rumors run like water, you think no one would notice the dead baby in the bathroom? Or did she flush it away?

Seriously, I can't get around the idea that this whole thing went unnoticed by absolutely no one.

1 hour ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

If girls can pull it off and give birth full term without any help and without anybody noticing, it's no surprise that somebody could do the same with a miscarriage and with the help of two friends. There have been cases where nobody knew a girl had given birth until a baby was found in a toilet bowl.

I dont think that scenario is possible in the bathroom of a club full of people.... I've heard of things like that happening at 4am at a parking lot or some other lonely place, and mainly because the woman didn't want to get caught. But aren't we talking about a 15 years old girl here?? Someone completely unexperienced with pregnancies and all that jazz?? Or was she experienced?

1 hour ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

Don't Cry was her favorite song. I suppose there may have been some comfort or beauty in hearing that song in her moment of agony, but I don't think she's telling it as a fond memory. Not all movies are good movies.

WTF.... again, she was 15 years old, she wanted the baby (according to her statement), no one wants to be in a bar at that moment.... really.... a girl in that situation would normally scream for her mom, to be taken care of, to get cleaned up, not to sit down with a bunch of drunken dudes

Heck, even grown up women do not want to be alone under such circumstances... All pregnant women need comfort and support from their loved ones, whether it is their mothers, their husband, a sister or a doula.

2 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I can't be 100% that everything happened as she said it happened, but there's nothing there that would make me go "there's no way this could have happened".

I'm not saying "there's no way", I am saying some stuff should be taken with a grain of salt.

Also, these are two different instances of the drama: one thing is the pregnancy/miscarriage, another different is the rape.

LM came here to denounce her rape. Many of us supported her version because we believed the story when she first told it.

The pregnancy/miscarriage could have happened or not but I do not think it invalidates the rape episode.

3 hours ago, janrichmond said:

I'm guessing this 'little Michelle' has never had kids? 

I think she has two but I could be wrong. 

The funny thing is that all women who Axl allegedly "got pregnant" do not have an Axl child. But they all do have their own bunch of children, while Axl has none. I become suspicious of that. 

2 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

Women have given birth to full term babies alone in the bathroom without any help and without telling anybody about it. I don't find it particularly difficult to believe that the miscarriage may have happened exactly as she described it.

The relationship with Little Michelle didn't last for very long. I think Axl has typically been a good guy in the early stages of his relationships. Stephanie said that they never fought or had any disagreements (which of course later on was no longer true).

LM says she was with two friends when the miscarriage happened and they helped her with all that. She even said Steven Adler helped her too, so hopefully Steven would remember if he was asked about it?

I'm not saying it's not possible that a woman could have a miscarriage in the bathroom of the bar, but she was over 3 months pregnant... can you imagine that mess? That's a big thing to come out of your body and she didn't freak out? She was 15 years old, any girl would have freaked out or pass out ... unless this wasn't the first time she was in a similar situation.... Still, it's all too violent to even be real and when she's telling the story about the band playing Dont Cry, her voice becomes soft and sweet, she even says that the whole moment was like out of a movie ... how can she have fond memories of such a terrible moment? I can't get around that.

Axl may have been nice and good to her while she was accessible and available to have sex with him, but I dont believe in Axl being a "nice boyfriend", a caring guy who wanted to see her every day or being happy about her pregnancy and then snapping like she described. Probably that's the way she projected him to be but from his account of the story, she was just a crazy chick who was obsessed with him and while he did have sex with her, that's all he wanted with her and probably the pregnancy or something else made him snap and turn violent to her, which is the only part of the story that I believe.

25 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I think this is the quote I had in mind earlier:

Axl: "I mentioned to one person about some trumped-up rape charges that we had, and that started appearing everywhere. It really wasn't that big a deal - just some old girlfriend trying to get back at us. People seem to want to believe we're really bad guys. Yeah, we've had some run-in's with the cops and we've done some strange things in our lives, but I think people are just making too much out of 'em" [Hit Parader, March 1989].

The problem is that Axl and the other guys have referred to this girl in many different ways, throughout the years.... sometimes it sounds like there were more than one girl accussing them of rape, because of the way the band members describe them

I guess it will be really hard for us to figure out what really happened, but a few things are clear to me:

1) They had sex with underaged girls.
2) Violence, drugs and alcohol were a constant in those sexual relationships.
3) Pregnancies and abortions were not uncommon to the whole bunch.
4) Sitting calmly at the table in some club, after having a miscarriage in the bathroom, is bullshit.

1 minute ago, Lio said:

I don't believe the bolded part. By all accounts, Axl is someone who really loves children. So I can imagine he was genuinely attached to Dylan too and counted on having him around. Didn't he have a room for him in his house too? I'm not saying he had any right to Dylan, but I do believe his feelings were genuine and losing him (in his eyes) had a huge impact on Axl.

I believe it because, to me, actions speak louder than mere words.

Let's quote what Axl has said about Dylan in the press:
"I’m around a three-year-old baby now and then, and sometimes after a few days it’s just too overwhelming for me. My head is spinning because of the changes it’s putting me through."
"[...] We want to maintain our friendship and be really protective of how our relationship affects Dylan. Dylan gets priority over us, because he could be greatly damaged, and I don’t want that to happen."

Beautiful words, right? But then he goes beating up the hell out of the mother and talking shit about her, and he expects those things will not affect Dylan?

If he had loved Dylan as much as his tongue spoke, then he wouldn't have exposed the kid in his videos and interviews and wouldn't have hurt his mother like he did. Because the most precious thing a kid has when they are 1-2-3 years old is their mother.

In my opinion, he saw in Dylan a reflection of himself when he was a child and he was loving the Axl he saw in Dylan, not the different being that Dylan really was >>
"[...] My growth was stopped at two years old. And when they talk about Axl Rose being a screaming two-year-old, they’re right. There’s a screaming two-year-old who’s real pissed off and hides and won’t show himself that often, even to me. Because I couldn’t protect him. And the world didn’t protect him. And women didn’t protect him and basically thought he should be put out of existence."

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

This quote is from an interview in June 1986 (L.A Weekly), so close to those events:

Axl: People would show up at all hours, and we’d talk everybody into climbing into the loft, and someone would hit the light and go, “Alright! Everybody in the loft! Let’s get naked or leave!” This one girl fucked almost the whole band, friends of the band, the band next door and two days later she goes, “Axl, I’m having your child.”

What I get from this is 1) that there must have been some of the women/girls they slept with that got pregnant (which would be expected considering their lifestyle and that they likely didn't take any precautions) and didn't keep the babies as neither party would want to 2) that Axl's reaction if someone told him she was pregnant would probably be that the baby wasn't his and 3) that the last thing he would want then would be a baby. 

That quote is interesting. I have never read that before. I also agree with your reasoning.

Axl never strike me as a guy who REALLY wanted children, not even with Erin and his obsession with Dylan was just bollocks to hurt the mother.

Holy shit 

Ok, I had to go an listen to that in order to understand what we are all talking about here. So I will respond to @Scream of the Butterfly and @MillionsOfSpiders now.

1) Axl's reaction to Erin's pregnancy and miscarriage are confusing to me, in the way they've been told by the press of the time. According to People's magazine, Axl's reaction to Erin's pregnancy was bad, as in, he wasn't happy to find out she was pregnant. Then she miscarriages and he destroys the house 

In September 1990, Everly learned that she was pregnant. “This was all I wanted,” she says. “I thought it could have been a cure for Axl.” If so, it didn’t take: Everly says that Rose’s elation quickly soured and that he threw her out of the condo and threatened to take the baby. When she miscarried in her third month, Everly had to sell her Jeep to cover medical costs. As Everly recuperated, Rose trashed the house in the Hollywood Hills they had been preparing to move into, causing $100,000 in damages.

But when he spoke to MTV about this, he didn't sound like a psycho and said they were going to try "this baby thing" one more time. 

LM story of pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage sounds too similar to Erin's, especially Axl's reactions, where he goes in matter of minutes from apparently being happy to know that she was pregnant, to accusing her of having "killed my baby", to crying on his knees because she didn't tell him the truth and holding each other in grieve for the lost baby, to suddenly leaving her there and start fucking some random girl in the parking lot and when LM finds out he goes back in, takes her clothes off and rapes her....... All that in a matter of what?.... 20 minutes as much?

Axl is a lunatic but this is too much. And if it really did happen then I don't understand how come this didn't turn into a huge scandal. They weren't so powerful at the time, I don't know, something rings off to me and it's not exactly the rape part, to be honest.

2) At the risk of turning into an armchair psychologist, I must say that the whole thing about Axl wanting a family so much sounds more like a projection of others than his own desire. I don't have a vivid recollection of him saying these things but it's always other people who tell those stories..... Because if we guide ourselves by facts, Axl did everything in his hands to SABOTAGE this alleged dream of his.

Not only all of "his" babies died, but he trashed every serious relationship he had with women. So there he is now, at almost 60 years old, wifeless and children less. At this point, I am safe to think this is a personal choice rather than destiny.

That's why it's hard for me to think of Axl as a guy who TRULY wanted a traditional family and that's why it's hard for me to believe Little Michelle story of Axl being kind, nice, willing to have a kid at 23 and sobbing over the loss of said baby.

4 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

If other parts of Little Michelle's story are true, I don't understand why she would make up the part about the pregnancy and miscarriage. If she has a legit story to tell about a crime that was committed and is hoping for acknowledgement from members of the band, why would she ruin it with some bs story about a pregnancy that never happened?

My opinion or theory about that is that LM is affected by the way she was portrayed in those news articles and books, as some random party girl who had occasional sex with Axl, and was thrown out of the place because she was a troublemaker.

Slash doesn't acknowledge her as someone who was close to the band. Not even Axl has ever mentioned her as a former girlfriend or lover.

In her version, she's all the contrary to how these people have presented her: she says she was friends with Slash and Steven previous to meeting Axl, that they were protective of her, that she knew everybody from the band and that she had an intense relationship with Axl, in spite of him being with other women.

In a nutshell, a story of pregnancy and miscarriage helps the audience feel more compassion about the rape story than the plain sequence where she is just having consented sex with adult men. (because people in general feel more compassion for a rape story where sex is forced, as opposed to a story where a teenager has sex with adult men because she wants to. Patriarchal men and women see this as the case of a "slut" who deserves to be mistreated for not respecting herself).

2 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Now she says she went to confront him because he had fucked one of her friends and then he brought up the baby which Slash had told him about and he knew about the miscarriage too - he still screamed about her killing his baby etc. 

That’s quite a difference in my opinion. 

To me, the weirdest part is the miscarriage at the Troubadour. 

She says she was over 3 months pregnant and she had the miscarriage at the bathroom. Then she got out and sat down at a table while the band played Don'T Cry for her? 

I am thinking how terrible it must be to miscarriage such a huge baby and not have consequences from that or how she didn't need to go to E.R. immediately after that??? No one called an ambulance?? How did she handle this whole thing and still managed to remain at the bar to listen to the band play?? That's fucked up to me. I just can't get around that.

Also, when Slash allegedly told Axl about her being pregnant, he didn't tell Axl that she had a miscarriage-not-an-abortion??!! Why would Axl think she killed the baby or why would Slash tell just HALF of the story, as if a miscarriage wouldn't be as traumatic and serious just like an abortion??

1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

She deleted it herself, I think. I’m sure she will re-write the detail I was referring to when she comes back - I sent her a pm explaining I didn’t mean to put her off posting   

Ok.

After reading the other responses and comments here, I guess I figured out she was talking about the "interview" some guy did with Michelle and was posted on Twitter (or YouTube), I think....

I've not listened to it yet.... Not in the mood to listen to GN'R dramas ATM.... also because I already know the "story" and it seems it has not changed that much since the last time, did it?

4 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I know some people in this thread will think I’m “sick” and anti feminist but I can’t really accept the whole miscarriage story and when I doubt something as serious as that it makes me doubt everything. 

I am one of the rabid feminists here but I do not think you are sick for having this opinion. You've exposed it in a respectful manner and that's the difference between you and someone "sick".

Michelle's story is not all 100% clear to me either.... even though I do find "sick" that she was hanging out with grown up men at 15, having sexual relationships with them. All adults in charge of her and the ones messing up with her were responsible for how she ended involved in the "incident" with Axl (and allegedly Slash as well).

That part I totally believe it to be true, because in my books, minors can't give consent to sexual relationships. And if they do, they are wrong. It is the adult person responsability to guide them and say no to their requests.

The pregnancy and miscarriage are the parts of the story that sound untrue to me..... Especially because some stuff she described sound out of character to me (I mean Axl). Like, I don't think Axl was the nice "boyfriend" who wanted a baby with a random 15 year-old girl, or that they were very close and saw each other every day....

4 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I was reacting to @GingerHair post in here about the Little Michelle story. I was talking about the doubts I have about some things she said. 

Was it removed? I'm still lost and I can't find her post in the previous pages 

3 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

You don’t think any part of that story sounds at all suspicious? (and don’t mean the Axl being aggressive part) - I mean other things - you don’t think any of it sounds just a little bit like fantasy?

I hate to be that person - but I sure as hell do!

I'm fucking lost O_o

What happened?? Who are you talking about??

1 hour ago, Padme said:

By now Beta is a woman with resources. She is a manager/assistant and she makes a good amount of money. She could mess up and lose everything. But that remains to be seen.

Yeah. Though I meant in the sense of speaking and ventilating personal stuff about her boss.

She should not have said those things about her former employer. Sounds unprofessional and like a gossiper.

10 hours ago, Angelica said:

I’ve always believed Axl took the breakup so hard because he’d allowed himself to get so attached to Dylan and he thought having a family would ‘fix’ his past and mental health issues. But that’s on Axl, not Stephanie. 

That's a reasonable analysis.

10 hours ago, Angelica said:

'You snooze you lose’ means you waited too long and missed out on something, it doesn’t fit the situation though. 

Tnx. It didn't make sense to me that's why I didn't understand... It's strange that Beta picked this comment to argue with. 

2 hours ago, soon said:

Beta had her own issues with Stephane, no? Thats why she quit and went with Axl?

So even if the comment was about Axl, maybe the entire subject is raw for Betas own reasons too?

Yes, I think so. Holding such grudges for so long speaks volumes to me, but I don't want to expand my opinion on that because there is a 1% chance that I would be talking out of my ass 

15 minutes ago, Padme said:

She badmouth Stephanie AFTER she was hired by Axl. She did an interview during RIR 2001. And there she went after Stephanie. Nobody should be surprised. One thing for sure,if Stephanie would've never been part of Axl's life. Beta wouldn't be in the position she is today.

Beta says Stephanie was with her in a different way than she was with others... I wonder what the hell that means 

Sounds like Beta was bitter about not becoming Stephanie's right hand and confessor? Drawing a line with the domestic service is always difficult, they know everything about you and when you part ways with them, they go talking bullshit around. Imagine what would happen if Axl was to fire Beta some day... 

5 minutes ago, Angelica said:

He’s posted a bunch of stuff on IG (both captions and pics) that suggest they knew each other intimately. He was known for “dating” his subjects back in the day and  he took the absolute hottest photos of her (her Playboy shoot and a bunch of others). There was one post of the two of them that he deleted after Axl fans started attacking him 🤣

Yes, yes, yes, yes!!! 

I mixed up the sources but I remember the pictures and captions. I had them saved in my other IG account and now when I tried to retrieve them, they're not there anymore.... or maybe I don't even know which folder I put them , it's been sooooo long since I have checked anything related to GN'R, but yes, there was one pic where she's like totally naked  and he is behind her... lol... it's impossible those two didn't have sex at all.

Steph was a bomb and free-minded woman, that's why the misogynists and conservative women dislike her. She did as she pleased, like we all should do. It's hard for me to see how she damaged Axl so badly, when he was the one who physically hurt her and obsessed over her for more than a decade 

-----

BTW, can someone explain to me what the poster in Susan's IG meant by "Axl you snooze you lose"? I don't understand the expression 

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

You mean this article?

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/fashion/22Brant.html

It doesn't say that he dated Stephanie, only that they were friends and co-workers and he introduced her to Peter Brant.

No, its not that. I remember I saw it on IG.

19 hours ago, marlingrl03 said:

Here it is.

Whoa!! hahahah I LOVE IT!!!

15 hours ago, GingerHair said:

And Beta picked up a fight with one of Susan's follower who teased Axl because of Stephanie  (I'm not tech savvy enough to paste it here)

Jeez, what a loser that woman is..... is she in love with Axl?

Seems to me that she is.... otherwise, why pick up a fight with a nobody from the social networks over some bollocks that happened 30 years ago??

Talk to me about holding grudges and living with hate and poison inside

9 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Axl is still friends with Sante D' Orazio, the photographer, who seems to be also friends (or at least friendly) with Stephanie.

I read in the NY Times that Sante dated Stephanie before she dated Axl.

Sante has photos of his work with Stephanie previous to her relationship with Axl.

Which also confirms that theory about Axl loving to eat his friends leftovers

On 8/9/2019 at 11:27 AM, SerenityScorp said:

I’m Back! 

yo!

14 hours ago, MaskingApathy said:

Well there was that Slash interview with Eddie Trunk, anyone have any thoughts on that?

I read what was transcripted here...... I have no idea.... he's the usual vague person he always is

It seems they are working on a new album but at the same time it sounds like they dont give much of a fuck about it

OMG hating Ashba is so 2012

20 hours ago, soon said:

Its newer than SOYL. And correction: This fart was assembled by a team of 20+ trained professionals 

Nothing it's new when you're talking about something nearly 20 years old!

The team of 20+ professionals are prolly retired by now

2 minutes ago, soon said:

Im saying that Melissa Reese is the best 2nd keyboardist in the hard rock genre 

7 minutes ago, soon said:

But 'new' music was just 'released?'  

That is just another Axl fart from 2001 kept in formol for future studies

9 minutes ago, soon said:

"new album" - See you still have some faith!! 

I never said I didn't.

Plus, if they want to keep milking the cow, they should get her pregnant already

On 27/8/2019 at 12:29 PM, soon said:

She's not the bottom of my list either, but one time I posted a pic of her in a post to @killuridols and discovered that she really doesnt like Mel  May have influenced my phrasing! hehe

what you saying?

LOL

I really don't care about Mel.... I dont care about this band anymore!!

I mean .... I will care if they release new music and stuff, but I've drifted away from liking them as individuals... I guess I finally KILLED MY IDOLS in that figurative sense, and now I flow around not giving a damn about their lives anymore

Also, I feel like the buzz with this reunion has passed..... they playing together is not a novelty anymore. Maybe a new album will bring them back to the spotlight. Not sure.