killuridols

13 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Is there an interview I have missed where he has said this specifically? ... he’s said it more than once apparently. 

Here's some stuff I've found so far....

"McKagan said in a statement of the #MeToo movement, “I heard and read some awful stories. As the father of two girls, I felt the need to write this song. If I have any job in the world, it’s to protect the women in my life.""

“I wanted to make the man in the song as awful as possible,” McKagan added. “I wanted to make him a warning. We hear stories of people showing signs beforehand…and we hear also, that something could have been done. I don’t have an answer, and the song doesn’t either. The hope is to simply raise awareness of distressing signals that some may display.”
Rolling Stone - May 17, 2019

-----

Last September

"On the last Loaded record [2011's The Taking] I wrote a song called Follow Me To Hell. That was a response to a guy who raped and killed a 15-year-old girl in San Diego. I have two daughters and a wife, and this kind of thing pisses us all off, makes us all sick to our stomachs. Follow Me To Hell was what I would do if I got the same room with one of those guys. 

"With Last September, I'd read some stories when #metoo was happening – I hate calling it that – of some real bad motherfuckers doing some bad shit, so I fictionalised a story. I swear that song and the lyrics wrote themselves in five minutes, and Shooter really loved the tune. 

"It's just a commentary and reaction to the #metoo movement. It is a sad story. But with the refrain of the end I hope to bring a little hope to the female in the story." 

Louder Sound - June 3rd, 2019

----

Looks to me like two different stories got mixed up and that's where the confusion comes from....

Just now, Minche said:

🙄 Thanks for highlighting something I've already read. 😁 My question still stands. 🤷‍♀️

ok, good luck in your wait.

Here's some popcorn 4u

Just now, Minche said:

See...you're still acting like one! lol And I've read her entire post. It didn't have the answer to my question. 🤷‍♀️

"I am finally breaking my silence, because they all lied about me in books, painting me as some crazy groupie, I was never that. The other books lie about me too. [...]"

"I never wanted to hurt anyone, I wanted my friends to succeed and they did. They also fucked me over and continue to do so by feeding their fans lies. It is my time to just tell my truth. You've all read about me in every book that's out there."

"I am not After anything but the Truth."

Just now, Minche said:

Are you her legal representative? I doubt it. So quit acting like one and let her respond to questions I directed at her, if she is willing to do so. 🙃

oh I am not but if you had read her entire post you wouldn't be asking those questions because she already stated why she wanted to tell her version

1 hour ago, Minche said:

I've never said I had a problem with her presenting her version of the events. I merely ask why here(too), because I seriously don't see how she could gain anything from this. Pretty sure we have already read her version of the events via her twitter/facebook posts, too.

Is it your place to determine what SHE gains from this?

Leave it to her.

Just now, Draguns said:

"How can you assure that she was not abused for real? Are you either one of the parts?" Excuse me????  My advice to you is to stop and think about things without replying.
I'm actually done with this since you don't want to listen at all.   No need for the back and forth. 

You brought up the story of a random woman no one here knows just to make a point about something like... rape/abuse accusations can be false?

Yeah, so what. It adds nothing to the central topic of discussion. I'm not bothered you don't want to continue, this thread ain't about you anyway!

7 minutes ago, Minche said:

Nobody here can help you with whatever allegedly happened.

10 minutes ago, Minche said:

Again, I just can't see what the ultimate goal is regarding this post or, what is it you could possibly gain from this, and from a fan based forum ? 

She's not looking for help from us. She just wants to tell her story because it is people like us, GN'R fans, who are talking about it and she's involved, so at the least, she should be given the chance to tell her side.
Havent we already heard A LOT from the men involved?

She clearly stated in her post that she wants to make the facts straight because she considers the story that's been published in the media and GNR books inaccurate.

I don't see what's the problem with allowing her present her version. Unless you just want to listen to GN'R account of the events

7 hours ago, Draguns said:

What do you mean by: "watch out what they are telling you in the previous post ^. Some major details are missing from that story."  I was never involved with this woman in an intimate way if that's what you mean. We came close but things never progressed since I knew that she had mental health issues and wasn't taking care of it.

Someone brought up the story of a teenager boy in Argentina who allegedly committed suicide after he was acussed of sexually abusing a teenager girl who was his friend. The way they have presented this story is inaccurate because some major details are missing. That's what I meant.
I don't want to derail the thread. If you're interested I can PM you to explain what happened.

7 hours ago, Draguns said:

If you think that you can't get away with false rape accusations or  false accusations then you are sadly mistaken. It has occurred. History has proven this in the U.S.   In this situation, she got away with this and  some other things that she did due to her father.  

How would you know that she actually got away with it?

How can you assure that she was not abused for real? Are you either one of the parts?

Yeah, legal systems are flawed but if you're innocent you fight for it. You get the best lawyer you can afford and you fight for your truth.

False rape accusations and false DV acussations can be proven. People who have an expertise in the field can somewhat easily figure out a false accusation. The alleged victim would have to pass some psychological tests and from there, it can be determined if they are lying or not, if they have a tendency to make up stories, if they are indeed subject of DV. There's tons of tools, really.

8 hours ago, Draguns said:

Additionally, if I was ever falsely accused then I would just want to clear my name and not pursue it any further. A false accusation  that has been proven to be false can still hurt you.

Why would you want to stop there?
In my country, the law penalizes people who make false accusations.

If I was ever falsely accused of anything, I'd work my ass off to have that person punished and pursue a compensation for damages.

8 hours ago, Draguns said:

I wish that the women who are sexually assaulted or raped get justice in the court system. I hope more women come out when it happens. Ditto with men that get sexually assaulted.   I also hope that women who are sexually harassed get justice. With that that being said, you can't just say a few cases of false accusations. By doing that, you are undermining the issue. 

I say it because I do not think that there are as many false accusations as you say there are. And with this I'm not denying the importance of it, when it happens, it is really bad for the victim.

But they are two different issues and if you're going to link it to the real sexual abuse, then you are undermining the fact that the percentage of women and children who are actually abused surpasses the percentage of men (or people in general) being subject of a false accusation.

Like I said, false accusations can be proven and they can be proven quicker than real abuse. If someone gets away with it, then we are talking about flaws in the system, corruption, or ineffective judicial officers. Nonetheless, real victims of sexual abuse oftenly stumble upon the same flaws in the system, which can make an abuser get away with their abuse.

6 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said:

And, for most of human history marriage after a women’s first period was normal. That was consider the threshold into adulthood, so save me the speech about this shit on a fucking Guns N‘ Roses forum.

Seriously....

44 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Emoji eye roll. There is zero evidence to support that claim, so using the word rapist and getting all indignant about it is pointless. 

Underage naked girl in a house with adult men is the only evidence that you need here. Sex with minors is illegal in most fairly decent countries. If you have sex with minors you are a rapist. It's not rocket science.

2 hours ago, Draguns said:

By saying very few cases, you are actually undermining false accusations which is an issue.

I say few cases because they ARE few cases. You can't say that the amount of false accusations comes even close to the amount of real ones.

2 hours ago, Draguns said:

It's an issue for women since it  doesn't help women who have been sexually assaulted or raped.

Women who have been sexually assaulted or raped for real usually have to deal with the flaws and coldness of the judicial system.

Aside from having to deal with the threats of the perpetrator and the society in general, always blaming the victim for having wore this or that, for being in the wrong place, for not defending herself, etc etc.

2 hours ago, Draguns said:

As I previously stated, I knew of a woman that falsely accused a guy of rape. She got away with the false accusation due to her father knowing someone. 

You know of ONE woman who did it... and how many are truly abused and raped daily in your country? Do you know those statistics?

I'm not saying it can't happen. It can and it does, but I dont see how this is massive or serious enough to discourage the #metoo movement.

Besides, I really doubt someone can get away with false rape accusations. With a serious investigation, truth always comes out.

----

Edit: watch out what they are telling you in the previous post ^. Some major details are missing from that story. 

3 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

I am not against the whole #metoo thing but these movements can definitely be a slippery slope. 

One of the problems with these movements is that horrible people take advantage of it for their own agendas, or to jump on the bandwagon for convenience, or because they think it is a fad they NEED to belong to (like Duff). Those things overshadow the essence of the movement and give green light to the naysayers to destroy it.

The other problem that derives from it is that the focus is put on the negative and the victims are scrutinized, vilified, turned into the enemy and equated to the VERY FEW cases where someone has lied about being abused or raped. The examples you give are really a small percentage, but this is enough for some people to call bullshit the whole movement.

Just now, 31illusions said:

Now everybody takes his picture at a show. Kinda' wasted effort on Axl's part.

Karma exists

2 hours ago, Lio said:

Why would they throw hush money around when they hadn't signed GNR yet?

Because they had a great potential and people like Tom Zutaut was determined to make them big.

Deep inside Geffen knew GN'R was the hen of the golden eggs.

2 hours ago, Lio said:

They were living a life of sex, drugs and rock n' roll and it attracted a lot of people. Plus they were almost kids themselves, being 20 or early 20s. I'm sure among the seemingly endless line of girls who offered themselves to them or were seduced by them, there were underage girls. Hell, 13 year old Steven had sex with a married woman in her 30s. Slash's parents let him live at his gf's place when he was like 12 or 13, smoking pot with the gf's mum; and years later, when his ex called them over for an intervention after she was worried about him because of his substance abuse, they just laughed it off. Like WTF? Their whole life was so messed up with no clear boundaries, and they all had issues, and I'm sure lots of things happened that were wrong. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

But as for this particular story, there will always be the two sides and it will never be a pretty story, it will always be horrible, regardless of which side you look at it.

Are you womansplaining me?

_j/k

Duh, I know all of that..... but I always go further than just settling with the "context". Okay, the context plays big, but not everybody in the same context were doing those kind of things. And when I say "everybody" I mean people in general, not the particular bunch of rock bands, artists, etc.

Also, Im not sure to what extent all of it can be attributed to "having issues", "living a messed up life", or being alcoholic, drugaddict, etc.... I feel like there was an entitlement to be a jerk to women and they found no limits to that. Everything was allowed, no punishment, so they kept taking it further and further.

Yes, this particular story is disturbing but I will always feel much more empathy for the victim than for the criminals. Especially if she was an underaged girl.
And if the story isn't true and she's making up all of this, I don't have a problem with looking like a fool for believing her.
At least I know that I have not lost empathy towards other human beings.

16 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Fair enough, I just thought you were on threads about new music not so long ago... But I can't say I'm keeping tabs🤣

If you don't enjoy it, I have no problem with that and if later on down the road you decide you like it again, I have no problem with that either! And like you said there's plenty to talk about around here besides gnr. 

Curious though, was the last show in 2017 because that was the last time they played near you? 

Probably I was because "new music" is a topic of my interest.

Too bad it's just fan utopia

Yeah, in 2017 they played in my country but I travelled to Chile to see them over there.

How does bringing up other abusers change in any way what THESE guys have done? 

Does Raz Cue have an account in this forum?

I wish he would be here to talk to us and clarify some things up.

While it might seem that he has a political agenda, he's at the same time helping #Michelle make her story more visible to many people.....

3 hours ago, RONIN said:

Needless to say, any Illusion era documentary they release officially will be an airbrushed pg-13 version where they photoshop out the drugs and groupies

"While on the road, crew members were required to keep their walkie-talkies on 24/7, in case a band member needed something. One night in Venezuela, Duswalt had his girlfriend with him — they’d been having problems due to her fears about his crazy rock ’n’ roll road life — when the walkie-talkie squawked at around 2 o’clock in the morning.

'I thought to myself it was probably [bassist] Duff [McKagan] wanting someone to get him a drink because he ran out of vodka,' he writes. But instead, and to his and his girlfriend’s dismay, they heard a man’s voice saying, 'Gentleman, the ladies are here. Let the games begin.'

He jumped to shut off the walkie-talkie, but his now pissed-off girlfriend told him to leave it on.

The next sound they heard from the walkie-talkie was giggling; then, from the hallway, what sounded like a stampede.

Duswalt opened the door and saw 'about 50 naked women right outside my door, walking down the hall.' The next day, he learned that 'the promotor … thought it would be really cool and impressive to empty a whorehouse out and bring them all to the hotel via bus … naked.' "

Craig Duswalt - Welcome to my Jungle

lol imagine a biopic with that scene

Yeah, keep on blaming the victims.... horrible people

26 minutes ago, Latx said:

This was 35 years ago and the alleged victim would be about 48 - 50 today. The girl of then 15, might be dead or still drugging wild living or jail or a God finder and is an evangelist.

She is ALIVE and she posted her story on a FB profile.

Just now, Azifwekare said:

Also, it seems he's calling out Duff/Axl about an allegation that he denies in the very book he plugs at the start, or am I missing something?

Raz Cue admits to be mistaken in the way he's described the events and that he has already apologized to this woman.

Apparently he didn't know her side of the story before he released the book.

43 minutes ago, Original said:

Not saying any of what (allegedly) happened is/was OK in any matter but it was a truly decadent and over the top era.  Guessing more than one underage girl was involved with our 80's "hero's" from many bands.  I mean wasn't Ted Nugent known for his love of the younger girls? I'm guessing with all the drugs and alcohol going on their was a lot of grey area.  I bet it never crossed anyone's mind sometimes to even think "are you 18"?   Again- NOT saying it makes it al right. 

IMO nothing has changed that much.... abuse of minors has always happened, it still happens and it will continue to happen because humanity is putrid.
That simple.

What has changed now is that some victims feel kind of more "comfortable" to speak about it, to open up and say what they've kept in secret for many years, but there's still a lot of people who don't believe them.

Young girls and boys are vulnerable to horrible adults. It is not their fault to have their hormones messing up with them. The problem are the adults, the parents and the abusers, both of them are responsible for what happens to these kids.

38 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said:

A lot of stuff that they did back then would be considered assault or rape now.

I think it has always been considered assault or rape

Just because these guys didn't give a fuck about their victims, it doesn't mean that there were not laws.
They were able to silence girls either with money or with threats, the same way they have always done.

Just now, Tom2112 said:

That you're not invested in gnr anymore. You follow them on show days in threads that takes a lot of interest, you still have hope! 😃

"Invested"? ugh, far from that..... The last show I attended was in 2017 and I have read very few show threads after that.... actually, I have not even watched videos since my own shows... everything got boring after that, repetitive, stale setlist, singer's voice turned shitty and not one trace of new music.

My visits and participation in this forum has reduced considerably for the last year or so. There are some really cool people here I like talking to, about things that have nothign to do with GN'R

Just now, Legendador said:

So, what he is saying is that he knew all those things and said or did nothing about it?

Well, what a "good guy" he is for comming up 34 years later and trying to stir shit up!

Is that the truth? I don't know, maybe, and I sad that the band that I love may have those things in its past! But if you knew it all along and did nothing about it you're are just morally corrupt as the perpetrator himself.

Guilty by association, right? And by the way, OIAM is a more controversial song than UTLH or ISE or LCMTV.

He got pissy because Duff took a shot at the MAGA movement and Trump and, man, now he can be accused of hiding a crime for the sake of his future Rock icon friends.

"Gonna call the President, Gonna call up the Private Eye, Gonna get the I.R.S., Gonna need the F.B.I."

Way to go, Raz, way to go!

Well, the crime was never "hidden".... there has been numerous reports in the press about what happened. The thing is no one paid attention to it, in part because the narrative used was that of an anecdote... like even Axl and Slash talked about it and they described the sexual act as consented, plus we never heard the girl's side of the story.

Just now, Tom2112 said:

That ain't true, otherwise you wouldn't be here. 

What exactly isn't true?

Wait.....

So that random girl from the rape abuse charges stories has a name now and it is Michelle?
How did that happen?

I'm surprised by this letter..... feels like something else is going on behind the scenes....

1 hour ago, Tom-Ass said:

And they were my idols in my adolescence.. \m/

Me too but I was a teen and I didn't know any of this... I got into them because of the music, obviously. It was much much later that I learned about these things but actually, everything that I read about it had a special narrative, like an anecdotic experience, almost like it never happened.....

Fortunately, I have emotionally detached from this band a couple of years ago.
I now see them for what they are and for what they were.... pieces of shit.

13 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

With these new shows being annnounced im syre we will see tako up front and centre as usual.

How is this news?

3 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Nikki Sixx isn’t very happy about the Motley Crue episode of Breaking the Band documentary that was on just before the GN’R one. Someone replied that The Dirt movie wasn’t accurate either 

Is it  documentary, fiction or a docu-drama?

If it's fictional I don't think they have to ask for permissions..... there is an artistic license to the biopics I  think, but maybe a disclaimer would be a better way to let people know that some parts might not be entirely accurate or based on real life events.