Jay Z Sticks It To Gallagher, Doubters

[Gigger]

The Stone Roses certainly weren't the new Rolling Stones. Although I could see why the name lends itself to such an easy headline. As I said, a good band. The debut was era defining. But they fell apart as quickly as they made it to the top over here. The Spike Island gig - which was a terrible gig - has huge significance though and no doubt the Roses were influential.

When did this thread turn into a US vs UK debate? Cos that's a different matter. Although for the record I happen to think the UK beats the US. Argue all you want but we've got the Beatles and Stones and you can't trump that - it's quality not quantity.

Edited July 3, 2008 by Gigger

[SolidSnake]

no one ever thought the stone roses were the next rolling stones ffs. are you on crack???

You are mistaken...somebody did.

Because I decided to check them out based on that very claim that was splashed across the music mag I bought.

I didn't hallucinate it man...

The Stone Roses are one of the most unique sounding bands this country has ever produced.

ok

But they definitely were not the next Rolling Stones....contrary to what I DID read about them.

a perfect example of oasis taking the piss out of the US music industry, it's about 1 minute into the video.

it's funny how the ones in america who didnt get it got oh so offended, it's just rock n roll.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uLIAC6Qtjgc&feature=related

What's funny to me is Oasis taking the piss out of the US music industry...when it was the US who spoonfed rock and roll to the rest of the world.

oh...the...irony

spoonfed us rock n roll? dont make me laugh :rofl-lol: :rofl-lol: :rofl-lol:

a couple of american artists may have layed the foundations of rock n roll

but the UK perfected rock n roll - FACT

and thus we "spoonfed" (what a word eh?!) you rock n roll with the beatles and the rolling stones, who are by far away the two best and most cutting edge rock n roll bands ever, of all time.

please run along now and stop making me laugh.

Your letting national pride obstruct your view of the facts..

You need to read some rock history.

give me an example of the US spoonfeeding us rock n roll in any decade starting from the 60's.

YOU CANT.

[Zint]

When did this thread turn into a US vs UK debate?

not sure....I think it was around the time that it was claimed that the US doesn't love to make British bands huge.

Although for the record I happen to think the UK beats the US. Argue all you want but we've got the Beatles and Stones and you can't trump that - it's quality not quantity.

The Beatles and Stones are my two all time favourite bands,so you'll get no argument from me on that.

In fact,several of my all time favs are British.

Solid Snake however,who has decided to go into attack mode needs to check what artists influenced the Beatles and Stones to become musicians (to name but two bands as examples)...and where they "hail hail" from.

(And don't say Lonnie Donnegan....cuz I can trace him back to this side of the pond as well.)

[Zint]

give me an example of the US spoonfeeding us rock n roll in any decade starting from the 60's.

YOU CANT.

Should we start with the San Francisco scene??

...you ARE aware of the mid 60's Carnaby Street scene...no??

Or how about Bob Dylan?

You've heard of Donovan...no??

Let's jaunt off to New York and the Warhole scene shall we?

Pink Floyd anyone?

Beach Boys were pretty fucking big in England.

Even when their popularity waned in the late 60's they were still greeted as heroes in the UK.

I can do this all day if you want..

Edited July 3, 2008 by zint61

[JeanGenie]

pink floyd?

[Projected]

To sum this up - Jay Z's got 99 problems, but a bitch ain't one.

[Zint]

pink floyd?

sure..

You don't think the NYC mid 60's Warhol-scene influence didn't seep into what Floyd were doing?

[Binge_And_Slash]

Let me put it this way in terms of "who was greater" - I dislike both Oasis and Jay-Z. But I can name more than one song by Oasis. Hell I can even name a few albums.

[Projected]

That's because you are more interested in that genre.

I can name more Psy-Trance albums/tracks of underground artists than I can name Oasis songs. That makes them greater?

[SunnyDRE]

That's because you are more interested in that genre.

I can name more Psy-Trance albums/tracks of underground artists than I can name Oasis songs. That makes them greater?

Excatly.

People freely diss rap artist/albums without even really knowing the genre.

[Randy Lahey]

That's because you are more interested in that genre.

I can name more Psy-Trance albums/tracks of underground artists than I can name Oasis songs. That makes them greater?

Excatly.

People freely diss rap artist/albums without even really knowing the genre.

I like rap but I've never been a Jay Z fan. In a perfect world Jay Z and Nas would have caught bullets and Pac and Biggie would still be alive.

Edited July 3, 2008 by Randy Lahey

[SunnyDRE]

That's because you are more interested in that genre.

I can name more Psy-Trance albums/tracks of underground artists than I can name Oasis songs. That makes them greater?

Excatly.

People freely diss rap artist/albums without even really knowing the genre.

I like rap but I've never been a Jay Z fan. In a perfect world Jay Z and Nas would have caught bullets and Pac and Biggie would still be alive.

Umm no.

I like you , but that is a douchebag statement.

In a perfect world all 4 would be alive.

[Randy Lahey]

Umm no.

I like you , but that is a douchebag statement.

In a perfect world all 4 would be alive.

You're right. I was just trying to shake this thread up.

[wasted]

Beyonce should front Oasis.

Liam should join Velevet Revolver.

[Randy Lahey]

Liam should join Velevet Revolver.

Liam would probably end up head butting Matt Sorum.

[SolidSnake]

give me an example of the US spoonfeeding us rock n roll in any decade starting from the 60's.

YOU CANT.

Should we start with the San Francisco scene??

...you ARE aware of the mid 60's Carnaby Street scene...no??

Or how about Bob Dylan?

You've heard of Donovan...no??

Let's jaunt off to New York and the Warhole scene shall we?

Pink Floyd anyone?

Beach Boys were pretty fucking big in England.

Even when their popularity waned in the late 60's they were still greeted as heroes in the UK.

I can do this all day if you want..

Pink Floyd were probably the most english band ever.

This proves you know next to nothing.

your future points and arguments will now be ignored.

pink floyd?

sure..

You don't think the NYC mid 60's Warhol-scene influence didn't seep into what Floyd were doing?

fucking hell, pink floyd were influeced by obscure british photographers and the london UFO club.

stop chatting absolute horse shit.

and the fact that you even fail to mention the velvet underground proves you know fuck all about the influnece of US Rock N Roll.

Edited July 4, 2008 by SolidSnake

[Zint]

give me an example of the US spoonfeeding us rock n roll in any decade starting from the 60's.

YOU CANT.

Should we start with the San Francisco scene??

...you ARE aware of the mid 60's Carnaby Street scene...no??

Or how about Bob Dylan?

You've heard of Donovan...no??

Let's jaunt off to New York and the Warhole scene shall we?

Pink Floyd anyone?

Beach Boys were pretty fucking big in England.

Even when their popularity waned in the late 60's they were still greeted as heroes in the UK.

I can do this all day if you want..

Pink Floyd were probably the most english band ever.

This proves you know next to nothing.

your future points and arguments will now be ignored.

pink floyd?

sure..

You don't think the NYC mid 60's Warhol-scene influence didn't seep into what Floyd were doing?

fucking hell, pink floyd were influeced by obscure british photographers and the london UFO club.

stop chatting absolute horse shit.

and the fact that you even fail to mention the velvet underground proves you know fuck all about the influnece of US Rock N Roll.

So the Velvet Underground DID have an influence?

oops...ya tripped up there big guy

I didn't mention the Velvet Underground?

Guess you don't know anything about the Warhol scene.

Who doesn't know their shit now?

I noticed you didn't decry my other examples you asked for.

shame that...I was hoping we could move on to the 70's

[SolidSnake]

give me an example of the US spoonfeeding us rock n roll in any decade starting from the 60's.

YOU CANT.

Should we start with the San Francisco scene??

...you ARE aware of the mid 60's Carnaby Street scene...no??

Or how about Bob Dylan?

You've heard of Donovan...no??

Let's jaunt off to New York and the Warhole scene shall we?

Pink Floyd anyone?

Beach Boys were pretty fucking big in England.

Even when their popularity waned in the late 60's they were still greeted as heroes in the UK.

I can do this all day if you want..

Pink Floyd were probably the most english band ever.

This proves you know next to nothing.

your future points and arguments will now be ignored.

pink floyd?

sure..

You don't think the NYC mid 60's Warhol-scene influence didn't seep into what Floyd were doing?

fucking hell, pink floyd were influeced by obscure british photographers and the london UFO club.

stop chatting absolute horse shit.

and the fact that you even fail to mention the velvet underground proves you know fuck all about the influnece of US Rock N Roll.

So the Velvet Underground DID have an influence?

oops...ya tripped up there big guy

I didn't mention the Velvet Underground?

Guess you don't know anything about the Warhol scene.

Who doesn't know their shit now?

I noticed you didn't decry my other examples you asked for.

shame that...I was hoping we could move on to the 70's

you're a bit weird.

the velvet underground were probably the most influential US rock n roll band ever, and even then why would I need to move on the 70's, the beatles owned them in every way possible. The Velvet underground (without nico, who was german) wouldnt be half the band they were. A copious amount of british bands have dominated music since the 60's, more so than the US could ever dream of. You are a sad nationalist in denial. God knows why you are so bothered by the fct that the UK dominates the US in terms of music. It's just that, music, and to be be honest you are now coming across as petulant and pathetic.

and the only band you mentioned whilst talking about warhol were pink floyd :rofl-lol: :rofl-lol: Pink Floyd never had anything in common with andy warhol for fuck sake. Andy warhol made obscene avante-garde films and had a thing for homosexual actors with long hair, and for whatever reason took the velvet underground under his wing.

stop clutching at straws.

your arguments at best are insanely weak.

Edited July 4, 2008 by SolidSnake

[Zint]

you're a bit weird.

So you're going to stoop to insults...alrighty.

Sounds to me like you're getting a bit frustrated.

the velvet underground were probably the most influential US rock n roll band ever, and even then why would I need to move on the 70's

uhhhhhh...because you asked me for examples of US influence on British music from the 60's on.

You informed me I couldn't....clearly I can.

I was happy to oblige you...but it appears you don't want me to continue....fine.

the beatles owned them in every way possible. The Velvet underground (without nico, who was german) wouldnt be half the band they were.

Agreed...you DID read in this thread that the Beatles and Stones are my all time fav bands...no??

If not..I just mentioned it again.

The Warhol (hence Velvet Undeground) scene was mentioned as an influence in the 60's.Done so because you flat out stated there were NO US influences to be stated from the 60's on.

And yet you just listed them as one of the most influential bands ever.

Stop talking out of your ass man.

A copious amount of british bands have dominated music since the 60's, more so than the US could ever dream of.

It was still spoonfed to your nation.

Pick up any rock history book dude...any god damn one.

You are a sad nationalist in denial.

really??

You do know I'm from the colonies right??

I haven't said anything about my nation's music in this conversation at all.

I'm just butting heads with a guy who really hasn't said anything more than "we are the Brits,we are the Brits we are we are we are the Brits".

Rock and Roll came from America man,however much that irks you...it did.

God knows why you are so bothered by the fct that the UK dominates the US in terms of music.

I'm not bothered by it all actually.You just keep stomping that boot in my mouth.In many cases british music is better.

In many cases it's not.

And on a national level,I can put Canadian Leonard Cohen up against anything you got and come out shining like a new diamond...so I'm not the least bit worried about nationalism in regards to music.

It's just that, music, and to be be honest you are now coming across as petulant and pathetic.

You're the one stooping to insults here.

and the only band you mentioned whilst talking about warhol were pink floyd :rofl-lol: :rofl-lol: Pink Floyd never had anything in common with andy warhol for fuck sake. Andy warhol made obscene avante-garde films and had a thing for homosexual actors with long hair, and for whatever reason took the velvet underground under his wing.

really..

I guess you weren't aware that the UFO club used to show Warhol films.Sometimes on the same night Pink Floyd played.

The concept for UFO came from the psychedelic club scene in San Francisco.

The light shows Pink Floyd began experimenting with were speerheaded in the San Francisco scene.

The UFO club lasted less than a year..it's NOT entirely where Pink Floyd started...or got their inspirations from.

You are aware of where the band name Pink Floyd comes aren't you??....aren't you??

You DO know that the band that became Pink Floyd started out playing American R+B tunes??

And one more thing I want to put to you in this round.

The Beatles didn't start shaking things up until after they met Bob Dylan on his UK tour.

He said to them...actually directly to Lennon "you guys aren't saying anything".

That had a deep impact on Lennon and it was only after that that the Yeah Yeah Yeah stuff went out the window and the Beatles got real.

...US influence

Is that "insanely weak" enough for you?

Edited July 4, 2008 by zint61

[SolidSnake]

so which one is it? "spoonfeeding" or "inluencing" ??????? stop alternating between the two.

you are a very silly person.

[Zint]

so which one is it? "spoonfeeding" or "inluencing" ??????? stop alternating between the two.

you are a very silly person.

It's both actually...take your pick.

The U.S. spoonfed rock n roll to the entire world (if that wording makes you feel any better about it).

The intention of American rock n roll wasn't to get kids from England (or any other country) to start bands,those kids drew their own influences from what was spoonfed to them.

You've tried being the tough guy around here who knows everything about music,I've risen to your challenges that you claimed I couldn't do...and you have only responded with half baked retorts and haven't bothered to acknowledge at all that perhaps a lot of the accusations and claims you have made in this thread might be inaccurate.

Your last post confirms that.

You're out of ammo and you are now arguing for the sake of it.

oh and...to quote John Lennon:

"Before Elvis,there was nothing".

Edited July 4, 2008 by zint61

[ffrankwhite]

so which one is it? "spoonfeeding" or "inluencing" ??????? stop alternating between the two.

you are a very silly person.

It's both actually...take your pick.

You've tried being the tough guy around here who knows everything about music,I've risen to your challenges that you claimed I couldn't do...and you have only responded with half baked retorts and haven't bothered to acknowledge at all that perhaps a lot of the accusations and claims you have made in this thread might be inaccurate.

Your last post confirms that.

You're out of ammo and you are now arguing for the sake of it.

*puts arm around Zint* im on his side so what'cha doin this fourth?

Edited July 4, 2008 by ffrankwhite

[Gigger]

Of course 'rock n roll' was invented in the US. Even the phrase itself is a terrible bastardisation of the English language which only the Americans could be responsible for.

If you don't agree then you have to ask yourself how many big British bands/artists were around in the 1950s?

Although I'm not sure 'spoonfed' is the correct terminology you've got to give credit where credit is due: the Yanks invented the genre. It's just that we Brits do it better.

Edited July 4, 2008 by Gigger

[Zint]

Of course 'rock n roll' was invented in the US. Even the phrase itself is a terrible bastardisation of the English language which only the Americans could be responsible for.

If you don't agree then you have to ask yourself how many big British bands/artists were around in the 1950s?

Finally some common sense prevails!

Thank you!

Although I'm not sure 'spoonfed' is the correct terminology

It's not,but it IS appropriate in response to crap posts like this one:

'SolidSnake' post='2089439' date='Jul 3 2008, 12:54 PM']a perfect example of oasis taking the piss out of the US music industry, it's about 1 minute into the video.

it's funny how the ones in america who didnt get it got oh so offended, it's just rock n roll.

you've got to give credit where credit is due: the Yanks invented the genre.

Credit has ALWAYS been given where due.The history of rock proves that.

No one has ever disputed that.

It's just that we Brits do it better.

In many many cases yes,absolutely...

...but not always

[ffrankwhite]

The Beatles didn't start shaking things up until after they met Bob Dylan on his UK tour.

He said to them...actually directly to Lennon "you guys aren't saying anything".

That had a deep impact on Lennon and it was only after that that the Yeah Yeah Yeah stuff went out the window and the Beatles got real.

...US influence

y'know i've read every fucking Beatles biography (bit of a fucking exaggeration, obviously not every but a great deal) including the ones about the members seperately but i dont recall reading about that. not saying it aint true, it more than likely is but just saying...never come across it. i do know that Hide Your Love Away, Nowhere Man etc were as a result of...well not as a result of but a definite Dylan influence. this whole fucking discussion is ridiculous though, im glad im not a part of it, theres some things being argued here which like...i dunno, they're pretty much a given.

by the way, Zint, if you haven't already, you should read which...OK, moron or what, i just forgot the name but its REALLY good its like...by a guy who was following em around just around the time they blew up in america and it just documents them in that time and how they were/shit was and its REALLY...like, honest. i think Lennon said of it: "it was great cuz it was the only one which showed us for what we were, which was bastards" or something like that, thats like an approximate quote but its REALLY good. The Beatles management was like a big...like a dragnet y'know, they didnt let shit seep out that wasnt painting them in a decent light...i read somewhere they tried to suppress this book quite a bit, how true that bit is i dont know. if you haven't already read it i must get the fuckin name for ya

Edited July 4, 2008 by ffrankwhite