Old GNR Would Have Gotten Boring

[Lines&Noses]

I seriously doubt Slash would have been famous outside of maybe a somewhat famous 80's hair metal band without Axl there to organize it all.

Wow. Some of you people are crazy.

We've seen what Guns is like with Axl in full control. An anti-publicity machine. Do you really think anyone would have ever heard of Guns N' Roses if Axl had been the dicatator that he is now back in the '80s?

Was Guns ever pro publicity then really? No, you had a massive interest based on an Earth shattering record. Axl has never been to the best of my knowledge the type to find people to interview him.

I made a typo there, and I apologize. I am saying Axl seems to be the organizer, the composer if you will and the other guys have always seemed to fill in the blanks. UYI would have been the same with or without Adler pretty much in overall arrangement.

Listen to the stuff Slash is doing, notice how it is almost great and epic yet it is missing something special, and not just Axl's voice.

I am just saying he did way more than snake dance and sing for the musical parts.

Going by the descriptions of the song writing process that I have read most of the music was written by Slash and Izzy, Axl would come along later and add lyrics. So it was a collaberative effort for the most part.

I do agree with what you say about what slash is doing but the same can be said for Axl's material lacking Slash and the old band? The fact is together there was a synergy that the can not hope to reproduce as individuals.

I have always read the opposite, that Axl would compose stuff, then the others would add and so on, a true collaboration.

I agree though, neither of them without Izzy would have a hope of capturing the lightening in the bottle they had. Right now would be a good time though, since the media seems to be scrambling and a growing number of people hate the crap that is out there now in pop culture.

We are at that point like in 1991 where the door is wide open for another Nirvana type revolution, just like people were ready for the rap thing in 2000 or so. Outside of a few bright spots, things need to change yet no one is stepping up.

You can argue back and forth but going by Slashs quote and interviews I've read with Izzy and some stuff Axl said in an old MTV interview where he describes the writing of WTTJ, most of the AFD music was apparently written by Slash and Izzy with Axl and the rest of the guys adding and chaning things. Axl also took on a kind of producer role where he OK's the final mixes as well as adding some embellishments such as the synth heard on Paradise City.

By the time UYI rolled round the band had clearly already become more fragmented. Novemeber Rain is clearly Axl's song and Coma is clearly a Slash song. Although the illusions also contained a lot of older songs and covers. I think the reason that some of the newer songs were not as good as the AFD material is that the song writing dynamic is already damaged probably because Steven was gone (either physically or metaphorically) and Izzy was already edging toward the door.

But just listent to Shost on Slash's new album he and Izzy still have that chemistry. I just hope they can get Steve Duff and of course Axl back too!

[Zanedog]

I seriously doubt Slash would have been famous outside of maybe a somewhat famous 80's hair metal band without Axl there to organize it all.

Wow. Some of you people are crazy.

We've seen what Guns is like with Axl in full control. An anti-publicity machine. Do you really think anyone would have ever heard of Guns N' Roses if Axl had been the dicatator that he is now back in the '80s?

Was Guns ever pro publicity then really? No, you had a massive interest based on an Earth shattering record. Axl has never been to the best of my knowledge the type to find people to interview him.

I made a typo there, and I apologize. I am saying Axl seems to be the organizer, the composer if you will and the other guys have always seemed to fill in the blanks. UYI would have been the same with or without Adler pretty much in overall arrangement.

Listen to the stuff Slash is doing, notice how it is almost great and epic yet it is missing something special, and not just Axl's voice.

I am just saying he did way more than snake dance and sing for the musical parts.

Going by the descriptions of the song writing process that I have read most of the music was written by Slash and Izzy, Axl would come along later and add lyrics. So it was a collaberative effort for the most part.

I do agree with what you say about what slash is doing but the same can be said for Axl's material lacking Slash and the old band? The fact is together there was a synergy that the can not hope to reproduce as individuals.

I have always read the opposite, that Axl would compose stuff, then the others would add and so on, a true collaboration.

I agree though, neither of them without Izzy would have a hope of capturing the lightening in the bottle they had. Right now would be a good time though, since the media seems to be scrambling and a growing number of people hate the crap that is out there now in pop culture.

We are at that point like in 1991 where the door is wide open for another Nirvana type revolution, just like people were ready for the rap thing in 2000 or so. Outside of a few bright spots, things need to change yet no one is stepping up.

You can argue back and forth but going by Slashs quote and interviews I've read with Izzy and some stuff Axl said in an old MTV interview where he describes the writing of WTTJ, most of the AFD music was apparently written by Slash and Izzy with Axl and the rest of the guys adding and chaning things. Axl also took on a kind of producer role where he OK's the final mixes as well as adding some embellishments such as the synth heard on Paradise City.

By the time UYI rolled round the band had clearly already become more fragmented. Novemeber Rain is clearly Axl's song and Coma is clearly a Slash song. Although the illusions also contained a lot of older songs and covers. I think the reason that some of the newer songs were not as good as the AFD material is that the song writing dynamic is already damaged probably because Steven was gone (either physically or metaphorically) and Izzy was already edging toward the door.

But just listent to Shost on Slash's new album he and Izzy still have that chemistry. I just hope they can get Steve Duff and of course Axl back too!

Didn't Axl write all of the lyrics for Coma? How is it Slash's song then?

[Lines&Noses]

I seriously doubt Slash would have been famous outside of maybe a somewhat famous 80's hair metal band without Axl there to organize it all.

Wow. Some of you people are crazy.

We've seen what Guns is like with Axl in full control. An anti-publicity machine. Do you really think anyone would have ever heard of Guns N' Roses if Axl had been the dicatator that he is now back in the '80s?

Was Guns ever pro publicity then really? No, you had a massive interest based on an Earth shattering record. Axl has never been to the best of my knowledge the type to find people to interview him.

I made a typo there, and I apologize. I am saying Axl seems to be the organizer, the composer if you will and the other guys have always seemed to fill in the blanks. UYI would have been the same with or without Adler pretty much in overall arrangement.

Listen to the stuff Slash is doing, notice how it is almost great and epic yet it is missing something special, and not just Axl's voice.

I am just saying he did way more than snake dance and sing for the musical parts.

Going by the descriptions of the song writing process that I have read most of the music was written by Slash and Izzy, Axl would come along later and add lyrics. So it was a collaberative effort for the most part.

I do agree with what you say about what slash is doing but the same can be said for Axl's material lacking Slash and the old band? The fact is together there was a synergy that the can not hope to reproduce as individuals.

I have always read the opposite, that Axl would compose stuff, then the others would add and so on, a true collaboration.

I agree though, neither of them without Izzy would have a hope of capturing the lightening in the bottle they had. Right now would be a good time though, since the media seems to be scrambling and a growing number of people hate the crap that is out there now in pop culture.

We are at that point like in 1991 where the door is wide open for another Nirvana type revolution, just like people were ready for the rap thing in 2000 or so. Outside of a few bright spots, things need to change yet no one is stepping up.

You can argue back and forth but going by Slashs quote and interviews I've read with Izzy and some stuff Axl said in an old MTV interview where he describes the writing of WTTJ, most of the AFD music was apparently written by Slash and Izzy with Axl and the rest of the guys adding and chaning things. Axl also took on a kind of producer role where he OK's the final mixes as well as adding some embellishments such as the synth heard on Paradise City.

By the time UYI rolled round the band had clearly already become more fragmented. Novemeber Rain is clearly Axl's song and Coma is clearly a Slash song. Although the illusions also contained a lot of older songs and covers. I think the reason that some of the newer songs were not as good as the AFD material is that the song writing dynamic is already damaged probably because Steven was gone (either physically or metaphorically) and Izzy was already edging toward the door.

But just listent to Shost on Slash's new album he and Izzy still have that chemistry. I just hope they can get Steve Duff and of course Axl back too!

Didn't Axl write all of the lyrics for Coma? How is it Slash's song then?

Well again I am going by an old Axl interview but I beleive the song was originally called "girth".

look at this interview with Axl at 5:10.

Axl certainly did a lot possibly all of the lyrics for Coma but even Axl describes it as Slashs song?

I mean Slash addeda killer solo to November Rain but I still thin of it as Axl's song?

Edited July 15, 2010 by Lines&Noses

[Axl Knows]

Slash wrote the instrumental for Coma but Axl wrote all of the lyrics and all of the vocal melodies. It's as much Axl's song as it Saul's.

Axl was the one who elevated Slash and Izzy's Illusion contributions above mediocrity. Slash, Duff, and Izzy were practically drowning in a cesspool of laziness and disinterest at the time. Axl really had to take it upon himself to finish the Illusions albums. From what I understand, post-Illusions Axl wanted to get another album out but Slash kept making more and more demands, telling Axl what songs he'd be willing to play on and what songs he wouldn't be willing to play on. What a pathetic attitude. Axl never outright refused to sing on any Slash composition... infact on every single song he sings his heart out. Why couldn't Slash just do the same? Why did have to dictate what kind of songs the band should be recording and what kind of songs they shouldn't be? What a wanker.

Anyway, I think most of us can agree that GNR's breakup was a good thing ultimately. If Slash, Duff, and Izzy could have just been men about it and stopped slacking off, MAYBE it wouldn't have happened. But they expected Axl to carry them both in the studio and onstage.

I realize that sales wise CD was crushed by Contraband, but consider the massive difference between the two situations.

You're right.

One had the Guns N' Roses brand name and the other was a brand new name with no market awareness.

It really was an unfair fight I guess.

By the logic that just having members from famous bands guarantees sales, shouldn't Them Crooked Vultures be the biggest rock band out there right now considering the bands their members represent?

Fact is that Contraband was a kick ass album and was successful because the music was there. It was music the public wanted to hear. Slither (Grammy for Rock Song of the Year) and Fall to Pieces spent forever at #1 on the rock charts because they were good songs. The album sold well and received critical acclaim (higher than CD on metacritic) because it was a great album.

They had their own sound, instead of looking around and trying to copy what was popular at the time they recorded it.

People shit on CD because we already have bands they wanted to hear an album that sounded like GNR. If they wanted to listen to Korn or NIN style metal/industrial stuff they would listen to those bands.

GNR was a band that pushed/developed their own sound without regard to what was in, not a band that looked around and tried to copy what everyone else was doing to try and seem relevant. That philosophy was clearly lost by Axl in the late 90's.

If the 90's Axl were fronting the 80's GNR, we would have gotten a cock rock album instead of Appetite because that's what everyone was doing at the time. Lucky for us though he waited until later in his career to decide to become a follower instead of a leader because we were graced with Appetite and the Illusions.

I really don't think you've listened to CD. Chinese Democracy isn't even close to an industrial metal album. It has industrial elements, but that's just part of Axl's eclectic taste. He's not limited to Blues-based hardrock as Slash is. The songs have elements have many different styles in them. You must be completely fucking retarded if you think CD is an industrial album or anything like Korn/NIN.

Now Velvet Revolver... THEY were selling out by trying desperately to make "music" that "the public wanted to hear" as you put it... Axl makes the music that HE wants to hear regardless of current trends or what people want from him. That's called integrity.

You need to open your mind kiddy and expand your pathetically narrow musical tastes... there's more to music than generic riff-based hard rock. There's more to music than "what the public wants to hear". CD has variety, something Slash wouldn't know much about. Every song he's ever written post GNR sounds the same.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Axl Knows

[smoking guns]

Slash wrote the instrumental for Coma but Axl wrote all of the lyrics and all of the vocal melodies. It's as much Axl's song as it Saul's.

Axl was the one who elevated Slash and Izzy's Illusion contributions above mediocrity. Slash, Duff, and Izzy were practically drowning in a cesspool of laziness and disinterest at the time. Axl really had to take it upon himself to finish the Illusions albums. From what I understand, post-Illusions Axl wanted to get another album out but Slash kept making more and more demands, telling Axl what songs he'd be willing to play on and what songs he wouldn't be willing to play on. What a pathetic attitude. Axl never outright refused to sing on any Slash composition... infact on every single song he sings his heart out. Why couldn't Slash just do the same? Why did have to dictate what kind of songs the band should be recording and what kind of songs they shouldn't be? What a wanker.

Anyway, I think most of us can agree that GNR's breakup was a good thing ultimately. If Slash, Duff, and Izzy could have just been men about it and stopped slacking off, MAYBE it wouldn't have happened. But they expected Axl to carry them both in the studio and onstage.

I realize that sales wise CD was crushed by Contraband, but consider the massive difference between the two situations.

You're right.

One had the Guns N' Roses brand name and the other was a brand new name with no market awareness.

It really was an unfair fight I guess.

By the logic that just having members from famous bands guarantees sales, shouldn't Them Crooked Vultures be the biggest rock band out there right now considering the bands their members represent?

Fact is that Contraband was a kick ass album and was successful because the music was there. It was music the public wanted to hear. Slither (Grammy for Rock Song of the Year) and Fall to Pieces spent forever at #1 on the rock charts because they were good songs. The album sold well and received critical acclaim (higher than CD on metacritic) because it was a great album.

They had their own sound, instead of looking around and trying to copy what was popular at the time they recorded it.

People shit on CD because we already have bands they wanted to hear an album that sounded like GNR. If they wanted to listen to Korn or NIN style metal/industrial stuff they would listen to those bands.

GNR was a band that pushed/developed their own sound without regard to what was in, not a band that looked around and tried to copy what everyone else was doing to try and seem relevant. That philosophy was clearly lost by Axl in the late 90's.

If the 90's Axl were fronting the 80's GNR, we would have gotten a cock rock album instead of Appetite because that's what everyone was doing at the time. Lucky for us though he waited until later in his career to decide to become a follower instead of a leader because we were graced with Appetite and the Illusions.

I really don't think you've listened to CD. Chinese Democracy isn't even close to an industrial metal album. It has industrial elements, but that's just part of Axl's eclectic taste. He's not limited to Blues-based hardrock as Slash is. The songs have elements have many different styles in them. You must be completely fucking retarded if you think CD is an industrial album or anything like Korn/NIN.

Now Velvet Revolver... THEY were selling out by trying desperately to make "music" that "the public wanted to hear" as you put it... Axl makes the music that HE wants to hear regardless of current trends or what people want from him. That's called integrity.

You need to open your mind kiddy and expand your pathetically narrow musical tastes... there's more to music than generic riff-based hard rock. There's more to music than "what the public wants to hear". CD has variety, something Slash wouldn't know much about. Every song he's ever written post GNR sounds the same.

Slash is great a blues based rock, but he is not one trick pony by any means. "Nothing to Say" is pretty fucking metal. Nothing bluesy about "Slither". "Obsession" showes his spanish influence. "Vocalise" shows some Jazz style playing.

[Axl Knows]

Slash is great a blues based rock, but he is not one trick pony by any means. "Nothing to Say" is pretty fucking metal. Nothing bluesy about "Slither". "Obsession" showes his spanish influence. "Vocalise" shows some Jazz style playing.

All generic and pretty crappy IMO. "IRS", "Better", "Scraped" and "Shackler's" have better, more creative riffs than anything Slash has come up with for about 25 years. No doubt.

[bacardimayne]

Slash is great a blues based rock, but he is not one trick pony by any means. "Nothing to Say" is pretty fucking metal. Nothing bluesy about "Slither". "Obsession" showes his spanish influence. "Vocalise" shows some Jazz style playing.

All generic and pretty crappy IMO. "IRS", "Better", "Scraped" and "Shackler's" have better, more creative riffs than anything Slash has come up with for about 25 years. No doubt.

Dude, I agree with the premise of this thread, but IRS's riff is one of the most generic on the album, second only to CD.

[smoking guns]

Slash is great a blues based rock, but he is not one trick pony by any means. "Nothing to Say" is pretty fucking metal. Nothing bluesy about "Slither". "Obsession" showes his spanish influence. "Vocalise" shows some Jazz style playing.

All generic and pretty crappy IMO. "IRS", "Better", "Scraped" and "Shackler's" have better, more creative riffs than anything Slash has come up with for about 25 years. No doubt.

Dude, I agree with the premise of this thread, but IRS's riff is one of the most generic on the album, second only to CD.

This is out of control, fucking Dr. Alibi may be Slash's simplest riff ever.. Some say its a Ramones riff, and even its better than most of the Riff's on CD.. Mainly because CD doesn't have that many "RIFFS".

[AxlRose14]

I agree with the OP. I wouldn't want to see the classic GNR turn into another AC/DC or Rolling Stones where they start churning out terrible repetitive albums year after year. I'm glad it ended when it did. The creativity was gone with Izzy.

agreed. fuck slash anyways, NEW GNR RULES!!

[Axl Knows]

Slash is great a blues based rock, but he is not one trick pony by any means. "Nothing to Say" is pretty fucking metal. Nothing bluesy about "Slither". "Obsession" showes his spanish influence. "Vocalise" shows some Jazz style playing.

All generic and pretty crappy IMO. "IRS", "Better", "Scraped" and "Shackler's" have better, more creative riffs than anything Slash has come up with for about 25 years. No doubt.

Dude, I agree with the premise of this thread, but IRS's riff is one of the most generic on the album, second only to CD.

I agree. It's pretty telling that the most generic riff on CD easily surpasses 90% of Slash's post Guns material.

[Tater Totts]

I don't buy the argument that Slash isn't a good songwriter. Do people really think Axl wouldn't sound good on Slither, Fall to Pieces, Starlight, Watch This, Serial Killer, Back and Forth Again, or Saint Is A Sinner? He certainly hasn't released a definitive album on his own, but there's a lot of interesting stuff in his solo catalogue. The notion that Axl needed to leave Slash behind is kind of silly when Chinese Democracy has duds like the title track, IRS and Scraped. Compared to the songs Axl and Slash have composed together; songs in which they literally reached Zeppelin-esque heights, there's really nothing on Chinese Democracy that compares. Even Axl said in the mid-to-late 90s they had incredible demos for the new record, so it's ridiculous to say they broke up over artistic differences. Their relationship ended because they didn't like each other anymore. Axl's freak-out-and-destroy-everything-attitude could not coexist with Slash's passive aggressiveness. And when you have as much money as they do, is it necessary to put up with someone's bullshit? No. They stopped talking, expecting the other to come crawling back, and the silence dragged on for years until there was no relationship left to repair..

-Kickingthehabit

Chinese Democracy was killed from leaks and horrible advertising combined with people expecting the best material ever written and so on from all the bullshit said and written about over the years.

Slash had a gigantic push for VR with literally everyone pushing them, and they did not come near what GnR did.

I agree with most of what you are saying, but really, listen to the songs Slash makes on his own. It is like Axl pushed and pushed him, and he sounds like instead of being innovative he is a generic rock guitarist now. I seriously doubt Slash would have been famous outside of maybe a somewhat famous 80's hair metal band without Axl there to organize it all.

I realize that sales wise CD was crushed by Contraband, but consider the massive difference between the two situations.

I don;t know where you are in the world but in the UK Chi Dem got pushed andpushed hard. They had television adverts, posters on public transport and full page adverts in newspapers. If anything the push for Chi Dem was bigger the Contraband?

The differnce was the VR boys got out there and helped push their record. I'm not even saying I think Contraband was better on balance I think Chi Dem shades it., but to say Chi Dem got no push just is not true at least not in the UK.

Southeast USA. One or two TV ads and a small ad in the sales paper, and of course the SNL advertising.

Contraband was everywhere though.

I live in the UK and all i saw for CD was one TV advert at about midnight. Other than that, i saw nothing, sad to say

Well in London as wella s TV you had posters ont eh tube/trains and buses + full page adverts in national papers?

They advertised it at football matches aswell.

Was at a Spurs game at White Hart Lane and missed a goal as I saw they were advertising it on the hoardings around the pitch

[Axl Knows]

Love how the haters are trying to change the subject. Touched on a sore spot have I, eh?

[loved2deth]

I seriously doubt Slash would have been famous outside of maybe a somewhat famous 80's hair metal band without Axl there to organize it all.

Wow. Some of you people are crazy.

We've seen what Guns is like with Axl in full control. An anti-publicity machine. Do you really think anyone would have ever heard of Guns N' Roses if Axl had been the dicatator that he is now back in the '80s?

Was Guns ever pro publicity then really? No, you had a massive interest based on an Earth shattering record. Axl has never been to the best of my knowledge the type to find people to interview him.

I made a typo there, and I apologize. I am saying Axl seems to be the organizer, the composer if you will and the other guys have always seemed to fill in the blanks. UYI would have been the same with or without Adler pretty much in overall arrangement.

Listen to the stuff Slash is doing, notice how it is almost great and epic yet it is missing something special, and not just Axl's voice.

I am just saying he did way more than snake dance and sing for the musical parts.

Going by the descriptions of the song writing process that I have read most of the music was written by Slash and Izzy, Axl would come along later and add lyrics. So it was a collaberative effort for the most part.

I do agree with what you say about what slash is doing but the same can be said for Axl's material lacking Slash and the old band? The fact is together there was a synergy that the can not hope to reproduce as individuals.

I have always read the opposite, that Axl would compose stuff, then the others would add and so on, a true collaboration.

I agree though, neither of them without Izzy would have a hope of capturing the lightening in the bottle they had. Right now would be a good time though, since the media seems to be scrambling and a growing number of people hate the crap that is out there now in pop culture.

We are at that point like in 1991 where the door is wide open for another Nirvana type revolution, just like people were ready for the rap thing in 2000 or so. Outside of a few bright spots, things need to change yet no one is stepping up.

You can argue back and forth but going by Slashs quote and interviews I've read with Izzy and some stuff Axl said in an old MTV interview where he describes the writing of WTTJ, most of the AFD music was apparently written by Slash and Izzy with Axl and the rest of the guys adding and chaning things. Axl also took on a kind of producer role where he OK's the final mixes as well as adding some embellishments such as the synth heard on Paradise City.

By the time UYI rolled round the band had clearly already become more fragmented. Novemeber Rain is clearly Axl's song and Coma is clearly a Slash song. Although the illusions also contained a lot of older songs and covers. I think the reason that some of the newer songs were not as good as the AFD material is that the song writing dynamic is already damaged probably because Steven was gone (either physically or metaphorically) and Izzy was already edging toward the door.

But just listent to Shost on Slash's new album he and Izzy still have that chemistry. I just hope they can get Steve Duff and of course Axl back too!

Yeah, I think I misunderstood or came off confusingly or whatever. I am just saying that they all contributed-it wasn't like 'yayyy, Slash is on his own now so he can really shine'. It would not be the same band without Axl in sound and so on regardless of who was singing.

I really want to see them reunite for just 1 album or even one song just out of curiosity as to what they would do.

[Lines&Noses]

I seriously doubt Slash would have been famous outside of maybe a somewhat famous 80's hair metal band without Axl there to organize it all.

Wow. Some of you people are crazy.

We've seen what Guns is like with Axl in full control. An anti-publicity machine. Do you really think anyone would have ever heard of Guns N' Roses if Axl had been the dicatator that he is now back in the '80s?

Was Guns ever pro publicity then really? No, you had a massive interest based on an Earth shattering record. Axl has never been to the best of my knowledge the type to find people to interview him.

I made a typo there, and I apologize. I am saying Axl seems to be the organizer, the composer if you will and the other guys have always seemed to fill in the blanks. UYI would have been the same with or without Adler pretty much in overall arrangement.

Listen to the stuff Slash is doing, notice how it is almost great and epic yet it is missing something special, and not just Axl's voice.

I am just saying he did way more than snake dance and sing for the musical parts.

Going by the descriptions of the song writing process that I have read most of the music was written by Slash and Izzy, Axl would come along later and add lyrics. So it was a collaberative effort for the most part.

I do agree with what you say about what slash is doing but the same can be said for Axl's material lacking Slash and the old band? The fact is together there was a synergy that the can not hope to reproduce as individuals.

I have always read the opposite, that Axl would compose stuff, then the others would add and so on, a true collaboration.

I agree though, neither of them without Izzy would have a hope of capturing the lightening in the bottle they had. Right now would be a good time though, since the media seems to be scrambling and a growing number of people hate the crap that is out there now in pop culture.

We are at that point like in 1991 where the door is wide open for another Nirvana type revolution, just like people were ready for the rap thing in 2000 or so. Outside of a few bright spots, things need to change yet no one is stepping up.

You can argue back and forth but going by Slashs quote and interviews I've read with Izzy and some stuff Axl said in an old MTV interview where he describes the writing of WTTJ, most of the AFD music was apparently written by Slash and Izzy with Axl and the rest of the guys adding and chaning things. Axl also took on a kind of producer role where he OK's the final mixes as well as adding some embellishments such as the synth heard on Paradise City.

By the time UYI rolled round the band had clearly already become more fragmented. Novemeber Rain is clearly Axl's song and Coma is clearly a Slash song. Although the illusions also contained a lot of older songs and covers. I think the reason that some of the newer songs were not as good as the AFD material is that the song writing dynamic is already damaged probably because Steven was gone (either physically or metaphorically) and Izzy was already edging toward the door.

But just listent to Shost on Slash's new album he and Izzy still have that chemistry. I just hope they can get Steve Duff and of course Axl back too!

Yeah, I think I misunderstood or came off confusingly or whatever. I am just saying that they all contributed-it wasn't like 'yayyy, Slash is on his own now so he can really shine'. It would not be the same band without Axl in sound and so on regardless of who was singing.

I really want to see them reunite for just 1 album or even one song just out of curiosity as to what they would do.

Agreed sorry if I picked up you up wrong.

[Lines&Noses]

Slash wrote the instrumental for Coma but Axl wrote all of the lyrics and all of the vocal melodies. It's as much Axl's song as it Saul's.

Axl was the one who elevated Slash and Izzy's Illusion contributions above mediocrity. Slash, Duff, and Izzy were practically drowning in a cesspool of laziness and disinterest at the time. Axl really had to take it upon himself to finish the Illusions albums. From what I understand, post-Illusions Axl wanted to get another album out but Slash kept making more and more demands, telling Axl what songs he'd be willing to play on and what songs he wouldn't be willing to play on. What a pathetic attitude. Axl never outright refused to sing on any Slash composition... infact on every single song he sings his heart out. Why couldn't Slash just do the same? Why did have to dictate what kind of songs the band should be recording and what kind of songs they shouldn't be? What a wanker.

Anyway, I think most of us can agree that GNR's breakup was a good thing ultimately. If Slash, Duff, and Izzy could have just been men about it and stopped slacking off, MAYBE it wouldn't have happened. But they expected Axl to carry them both in the studio and onstage.

Well we can have a vote that should settle it? I'm asking you to put it up for a vote was the break up a good idea, I suspect the result will be overwhelming.

As for slacking off Axl's 4 good song in 15 years is hardly reflective of a good work ethic (even if you add hte 10 mediocre ones its not exactly stunning)?

Also when you say he had to carry them on stage what are you referring to?

I realize that sales wise CD was crushed by Contraband, but consider the massive difference between the two situations.

You're right.

One had the Guns N' Roses brand name and the other was a brand new name with no market awareness.

It really was an unfair fight I guess.

By the logic that just having members from famous bands guarantees sales, shouldn't Them Crooked Vultures be the biggest rock band out there right now considering the bands their members represent?

Fact is that Contraband was a kick ass album and was successful because the music was there. It was music the public wanted to hear. Slither (Grammy for Rock Song of the Year) and Fall to Pieces spent forever at #1 on the rock charts because they were good songs. The album sold well and received critical acclaim (higher than CD on metacritic) because it was a great album.

They had their own sound, instead of looking around and trying to copy what was popular at the time they recorded it.

People shit on CD because we already have bands they wanted to hear an album that sounded like GNR. If they wanted to listen to Korn or NIN style metal/industrial stuff they would listen to those bands.

GNR was a band that pushed/developed their own sound without regard to what was in, not a band that looked around and tried to copy what everyone else was doing to try and seem relevant. That philosophy was clearly lost by Axl in the late 90's.

If the 90's Axl were fronting the 80's GNR, we would have gotten a cock rock album instead of Appetite because that's what everyone was doing at the time. Lucky for us though he waited until later in his career to decide to become a follower instead of a leader because we were graced with Appetite and the Illusions.

I really don't think you've listened to CD. Chinese Democracy isn't even close to an industrial metal album. It has industrial elements, but that's just part of Axl's eclectic taste. He's not limited to Blues-based hardrock as Slash is. The songs have elements have many different styles in them. You must be completely fucking retarded if you think CD is an industrial album or anything like Korn/NIN.

Now Velvet Revolver... THEY were selling out by trying desperately to make "music" that "the public wanted to hear" as you put it... Axl makes the music that HE wants to hear regardless of current trends or what people want from him. That's called integrity.

You need to open your mind kiddy and expand your pathetically narrow musical tastes... there's more to music than generic riff-based hard rock. There's more to music than "what the public wants to hear". CD has variety, something Slash wouldn't know much about. Every song he's ever written post GNR sounds the same.

Well integrity usually means that you consistently do what you think is right.

Slash clearly believes in Blues rock, and he hus stuck to that even though rock in general is not fashionable right now. There are milions of differnt things you can do from the blues rock platform. If you think Slash's songs all sound the smae then I think you are the one who has not been listening properly.

When he was referring to Chi Dems industial/Korn influences I think hw was referring to the fact that Chi Dem itself does sound kinda dated? There is nothing particularly original on it? Please tell me one song you think is so origial or broke new ground? Indeed the reason by poached Josh and Robin was to help him Ape NIN sound.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Lines&Noses

[loved2deth]

I seriously doubt Slash would have been famous outside of maybe a somewhat famous 80's hair metal band without Axl there to organize it all.

Wow. Some of you people are crazy.

We've seen what Guns is like with Axl in full control. An anti-publicity machine. Do you really think anyone would have ever heard of Guns N' Roses if Axl had been the dicatator that he is now back in the '80s?

Was Guns ever pro publicity then really? No, you had a massive interest based on an Earth shattering record. Axl has never been to the best of my knowledge the type to find people to interview him.

I made a typo there, and I apologize. I am saying Axl seems to be the organizer, the composer if you will and the other guys have always seemed to fill in the blanks. UYI would have been the same with or without Adler pretty much in overall arrangement.

Listen to the stuff Slash is doing, notice how it is almost great and epic yet it is missing something special, and not just Axl's voice.

I am just saying he did way more than snake dance and sing for the musical parts.

Going by the descriptions of the song writing process that I have read most of the music was written by Slash and Izzy, Axl would come along later and add lyrics. So it was a collaberative effort for the most part.

I do agree with what you say about what slash is doing but the same can be said for Axl's material lacking Slash and the old band? The fact is together there was a synergy that the can not hope to reproduce as individuals.

I have always read the opposite, that Axl would compose stuff, then the others would add and so on, a true collaboration.

I agree though, neither of them without Izzy would have a hope of capturing the lightening in the bottle they had. Right now would be a good time though, since the media seems to be scrambling and a growing number of people hate the crap that is out there now in pop culture.

We are at that point like in 1991 where the door is wide open for another Nirvana type revolution, just like people were ready for the rap thing in 2000 or so. Outside of a few bright spots, things need to change yet no one is stepping up.

You can argue back and forth but going by Slashs quote and interviews I've read with Izzy and some stuff Axl said in an old MTV interview where he describes the writing of WTTJ, most of the AFD music was apparently written by Slash and Izzy with Axl and the rest of the guys adding and chaning things. Axl also took on a kind of producer role where he OK's the final mixes as well as adding some embellishments such as the synth heard on Paradise City.

By the time UYI rolled round the band had clearly already become more fragmented. Novemeber Rain is clearly Axl's song and Coma is clearly a Slash song. Although the illusions also contained a lot of older songs and covers. I think the reason that some of the newer songs were not as good as the AFD material is that the song writing dynamic is already damaged probably because Steven was gone (either physically or metaphorically) and Izzy was already edging toward the door.

But just listent to Shost on Slash's new album he and Izzy still have that chemistry. I just hope they can get Steve Duff and of course Axl back too!

Yeah, I think I misunderstood or came off confusingly or whatever. I am just saying that they all contributed-it wasn't like 'yayyy, Slash is on his own now so he can really shine'. It would not be the same band without Axl in sound and so on regardless of who was singing.

I really want to see them reunite for just 1 album or even one song just out of curiosity as to what they would do.

Agreed sorry if I picked up you up wrong.

No prob man. I have always lurked here and the other 2 I know about, but guys like you make this forum the best.

I yearn for the old band, but realistically, I feel like people are in a black hole entertainment wise vs years ago. My generation (I am 24) has really been robbed IMHO.

I could not imagine getting up and reading about GnR in the paper, but Axl and Slash are the 2 guys I can really relate to.

That said I don't know or understand why they can't work together.

[Velvet-Rose]

'Axl Knows' is ridiculous lol.

Been reading this topic and youve just fallen to 'Slash is gay, his fans are gay too...Axl rules yaaaaay', no actual thought or respectable backup for your posts.

Well done to basically everyone else though, even people who fall to one side pretty solidly are being alot more fair about the other side.

I like some Chidem songs, Axl is a genious. The music, for the most part, is shit and over-processed and I do hate this new "band" being called GnR...but thats not a direct hatred against Axl or his fans.

Anyone who backs their side by dissing the other side, its fans or record sales just loses the argument. Cant believe this topic is so long though...Axl Knows is quite obviously bias and offers nothing of interest or logical/intellectual substance.

[Graveyard]

I'm happy with the way the band has evolved over the years, no reason not to be.

[M&S]

I'm happy with the way the band has evolved over the years, no reason not to be.

Agreed Graveyard, and Axl Knows did bring up some interesting points, I for one am glad that snakepit was not a GNR album,and,I'm equally as glad that ChiDem is.

[rockerman]

Say what you will cock miesters about old versus new...Old band could sell out stadiums and would if they ever reunited... New band is good guys great muscians but they have zilch personality for replacing the "Most dangerous band in the world". Thank God for the overseas market and the music festivles. . The whole underpromotion of them as a band is boring. The anti media GNR is...boring. The shows are magnificent and great sounding but for the most part having no expose is boring. This whole topic has grown boring.

Every single song they play that the old band did...is them going through the motions and that is boring. Thats not Slash up there ripping out Sweet Child O' Mine...or any of them..thats a hired employee. Thats kind of boring.

The music from CHI Dem ...ok interesting...experimental...over produced.. and really...ummm kinda boring too. Not a single song rivals the old band in any way. Your never gonna hear "Chinese Democracy" jamming thrugh the loud speakers at the ball games and your not gonna be hearing it on classic rock stations in ten years. I have yet to hear any club band play a Chinese Democracy song.. when they do they play classic GNR....twenty somethings playing mom and dads version of GNR!!!

Funny how you fellas that jump all over Slash's shit and dismiss him as a nobody have no clue...not now and not ever... I have to laugh at you fuckers that get off on bellyaching about blues based rock...and then try to dis Old GNR's sound.

Then you fuckers roar back about Axl and try to saddle up with him.....and then it all becomes a pissing contest that goes round and round ....no wonder Axl makes fun of you.....and doesnt want his poster on your bedroom walls.

Edited July 16, 2010 by rockerman

[Axl Knows]

Say what you will cock miesters about old versus new...Old band could sell out stadiums and would if they ever reunited... New band is good guys great muscians but they have zilch personality for replacing the "Most dangerous band in the world". Thank God for the overseas market and the music festivles. . The whole underpromotion of them as a band is boring. The anti media GNR is...boring. The shows are magnificent and great sounding but for the most part having no expose is boring. This whole topic has grown boring.

Lawl. You're a joke. The people who attend the concerts don't find it boring, and neither apparently do most of the 5 million who bought the album...

Every single song they play that the old band did...is them going through the motions and that is boring. Thats not Slash up there ripping out Sweet Child O' Mine...or any of them..thats a hired employee. Thats kind of boring.

Does the same apply for Myles Kennedy singing GNR? In your eyes, I'd guess it doesn't. It's somehow different, right?

The music from CHI Dem ...ok interesting...experimental...over produced.. and really...ummm kinda boring too. Not a single song rivals the old band in any way. Your never gonna hear "Chinese Democracy" jamming thrugh the loud speakers at the ball games and your not gonna be hearing it on classic rock stations in ten years. I have yet to hear any club band play a Chinese Democracy song.. when they do they play classic GNR....twenty somethings playing mom and dads version of GNR!!!

Who cares? First off, the new songs aren't boring. The new songs are different stylistically. You're not going to hear most of the Use Your Illusion material "jamming through the loud speakers at the ball game" either, because it doesn't have the arena/anthemic rock quality the the Appetite material has. That doesn't mean it isn't as good. AFD was nice but GNR had to move on and test new waters. They couldn't just record AFD part 1/2/3/4 ad infinitum.

Funny how you fellas that jump all over Slash's shit and dismiss him as a nobody have no clue...not now and not ever... I have to laugh at you fuckers that get off on bellyaching about blues based rock...and then try to dis Old GNR's sound.

Then you fuckers roar back about Axl and try to saddle up with him.....and then it all becomes a pissing contest that goes round and round ....no wonder Axl makes fun of you.....and doesnt want his poster on your bedroom walls.

Get a life.

[wasted]

The fact that AFD was a one-off record and wasn't repeated kind of makes it more special, it's like GNR's Exile on Main Street, people will always be talking about it. But that doesn't mean a band has to stop making music or try to re-do it. Having said that I like some bands that do that, just looking at it form all sides. I just think GNR are not one of those bands. If UYI had been AFD 2 then we could think what happened but it was way different from AFD. There's always been a high concept element to GNR.

[Coffy69]

The fact that AFD was a one-off record and wasn't repeated kind of makes it more special, it's like GNR's Exile on Main Street, people will always be talking about it. But that doesn't mean a band has to stop making music or try to re-do it. Having said that I like some bands that do that, just looking at it form all sides. I just think GNR are not one of those bands. If UYI had been AFD 2 then we could think what happened but it was way different from AFD. There's always been a high concept element to GNR.

Which had a lot to do with Axl wanting to go outside of his comfort zone. We would've had a repeated AFD had Axl not gotten his way(which I'm not suggesting happened for the best)

[dalsh327]

The fact that AFD was a one-off record and wasn't repeated kind of makes it more special, it's like GNR's Exile on Main Street, people will always be talking about it. But that doesn't mean a band has to stop making music or try to re-do it. Having said that I like some bands that do that, just looking at it form all sides. I just think GNR are not one of those bands. If UYI had been AFD 2 then we could think what happened but it was way different from AFD. There's always been a high concept element to GNR.

It's more like "Boston" or Meat Loaf's "Bat Out of Hell". Make that one album that people remember and love that keeps selling and replacement copies. There's thousands of bands that wish they could have that kind of luck (yeah, hard work, too) and fortune. And it's not like it went gangbusters when it was first released. It took close to a year for it to get noticed.

[Rovim]

I still think judging Chinese Democracy now, is like looking at only one of the Ilusions as the complete concept. After CD2 is released, I think we'll have a better understanding of the work and it's evolution from UYI.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Rovim