Americans: Who are you voting for this year?

[izzygirl]

I would vote for Obama because he doesn't seem American.

Thats the exact reason i don't want him in.

How does he not "seem American"? He just seems like a regular President who happens to be black....

I don't care if he is black, white, yellow or red...but he is not a crazy bitch like the rest. He seems a coherent, respectful guy.

Ouch. Very Ouch.

Are you referring to just our politicians or all americans?

Your politicians.... for the moment.

[WhazUp]

Obama without a doubt

[Damn_Smooth]

Vermin Supreme is getting my vote. If I can be bothered to waste my time voting.

[Vincent Vega]

I would vote for Obama because he doesn't seem American.

Thats the exact reason i don't want him in.

How does he not "seem American"? He just seems like a regular President who happens to be black....

He just doesn't, and its not because of his color of his skin. When i see him thats the last thing i think of. He just has different views (socialist) than i do. I'm for people coming here legally with nothing but the shirt on their back and making something of themselves (schwarzenegger, Gene Simmons) but he goes and gives work passes to all these illegal immigrants. What about the people who are still waiting to get here legally? Do they not matter?

Why should someone who just got to this country get free healthcare, mean while my dad is paying $1300 a month,on top of other bills and taxes. We also have shitty coverage.. Its just an incentive for my dad to work harder (or anyone else for that matter) and strive for the next step, something better... AKA The American dream.

1) Obama is not a Socialist. Please read up on Socialism. If Obama is a Socialist, that makes Richard Nixon a Communist, which if you know anything about history, he wasn't.

2) He hasn't given passes to anyone but the children of illegal immigrants, who constitutionally are citizens by birth as I understand it.

3) So living in shit, in the hope that you MIGHT get something better, is the American dream? I think that's more the Gilded Age.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Indigo Miser

[Johnny Drama]

It pisses me off when someone being to the left of Genghis Khan is called a "socialist" in a derogatory manner.

It pisses me off when someone being to the left of Genghis Khan is called a "socialist" in a derogatory manner.

[Bromle]

I would vote for Obama because he doesn't seem American.

Thats the exact reason i don't want him in.

How does he not "seem American"? He just seems like a regular President who happens to be black....

He just doesn't, and its not because of his color of his skin. When i see him thats the last thing i think of. He just has different views (socialist) than i do. I'm for people coming here legally with nothing but the shirt on their back and making something of themselves (schwarzenegger, Gene Simmons) but he goes and gives work passes to all these illegal immigrants. What about the people who are still waiting to get here legally? Do they not matter?

Why should someone who just got to this country get free healthcare, mean while my dad is paying $1300 a month,on top of other bills and taxes. We also have shitty coverage.. Its just an incentive for my dad to work harder (or anyone else for that matter) and strive for the next step, something better... AKA The American dream.

The American dream is more an illusion then anything. Sure there are a few examples of people coming to America and make it, or coming from nothing and making it big. But that are rare cases, and most modern western countries have them. It seems that America has some backlash from the cold war regarding sosialisme or anything that seems "red".

Why is universal healtcare and social programs a good thing? Because it doesn't stop the rich from getting richer og doesn't stagger the development of the country, what it does is closing the income gaps between the (in america, ever growing) lower class and the middle class. It makes people in desperate situation less desperate and will therefor not leaving them to do desperate choices. i.e. go to crime etc.

I'm from Norway, one of the most sosialist countries in the world. Ofcourse there are downsides to a high welfare system. We have big taxes to keep the wheels going, and healty people ofcourse complains about that. But when they get sick and need help, they don't have to rely on insurence money og a good deal, the state is taking care of them, and they don't have to pay much to recive alot. It's a safty net for people who for whatever reason can't work. There are a few that milk the system and misuse it, But they are few.

I'm not saying that socialism is perfect, but I do belive that it's a better solution/condition then what is currently the case in the United States of America.

[Johnny Drama]

I would vote for Obama because he doesn't seem American.

Thats the exact reason i don't want him in.

How does he not "seem American"? He just seems like a regular President who happens to be black....

He just doesn't, and its not because of his color of his skin. When i see him thats the last thing i think of. He just has different views (socialist) than i do. I'm for people coming here legally with nothing but the shirt on their back and making something of themselves (schwarzenegger, Gene Simmons) but he goes and gives work passes to all these illegal immigrants. What about the people who are still waiting to get here legally? Do they not matter?

Why should someone who just got to this country get free healthcare, mean while my dad is paying $1300 a month,on top of other bills and taxes. We also have shitty coverage.. Its just an incentive for my dad to work harder (or anyone else for that matter) and strive for the next step, something better... AKA The American dream.

The American dream is more an illusion then anything. Sure there are a few examples of people coming to America and make it, or coming from nothing and making it big. But that are rare cases, and most modern western countries have them. It seems that America has some backlash from the cold war regarding sosialisme or anything that seems "red".

Why is universal healtcare and social programs a good thing? Because it doesn't stop the rich from getting richer og doesn't stagger the development of the country, what it does is closing the income gaps between the (in america, ever growing) lower class and the middle class. It makes people in desperate situation less desperate and will therefor not leaving them to do desperate choices. i.e. go to crime etc.

I'm from Norway, one of the most sosialist countries in the world. Ofcourse there are downsides to a high welfare system. We have big taxes to keep the wheels going, and healty people ofcourse complains about that. But when they get sick and need help, they don't have to rely on insurence money og a good deal, the state is taking care of them, and they don't have to pay much to recive alot. It's a safty net for people who for whatever reason can't work. There are a few that milk the system and misuse it, But they are few.

I'm not saying that socialism is perfect, but I do belive that it's a better solution/condition then what is currently the case in the United States of America.

This.

[arnold layne]

Ron Paul. End the fed.

[Vincent Vega]

Ron Paul. End the fed.

Do you realize that without the Federal Reserve, we'd have a lot more recessions and depressions, and they'd be more severe in nature? Look up the Depression that occurred not long after the Second National Bank was ended.

[GUNSNROSES513]

I would vote for Obama because he doesn't seem American.

Thats the exact reason i don't want him in.

How does he not "seem American"? He just seems like a regular President who happens to be black....

He just doesn't, and its not because of his color of his skin. When i see him thats the last thing i think of. He just has different views (socialist) than i do. I'm for people coming here legally with nothing but the shirt on their back and making something of themselves (schwarzenegger, Gene Simmons) but he goes and gives work passes to all these illegal immigrants. What about the people who are still waiting to get here legally? Do they not matter?

Why should someone who just got to this country get free healthcare, mean while my dad is paying $1300 a month,on top of other bills and taxes. We also have shitty coverage.. Its just an incentive for my dad to work harder (or anyone else for that matter) and strive for the next step, something better... AKA The American dream.

The American dream is more an illusion then anything. Sure there are a few examples of people coming to America and make it, or coming from nothing and making it big. But that are rare cases, and most modern western countries have them. It seems that America has some backlash from the cold war regarding sosialisme or anything that seems "red".

Why is universal healtcare and social programs a good thing? Because it doesn't stop the rich from getting richer og doesn't stagger the development of the country, what it does is closing the income gaps between the (in america, ever growing) lower class and the middle class. It makes people in desperate situation less desperate and will therefor not leaving them to do desperate choices. i.e. go to crime etc.

I'm from Norway, one of the most sosialist countries in the world. Ofcourse there are downsides to a high welfare system. We have big taxes to keep the wheels going, and healty people ofcourse complains about that. But when they get sick and need help, they don't have to rely on insurence money og a good deal, the state is taking care of them, and they don't have to pay much to recive alot. It's a safty net for people who for whatever reason can't work. There are a few that milk the system and misuse it, But they are few.

I'm not saying that socialism is perfect, but I do belive that it's a better solution/condition then what is currently the case in the United States of America.

I don't have problems with the rich getting richer. There are some sleaze ball rich guys who dodge tax's and shit but there's a lot of honest guys out there.

My Dad's friend is a General Contractor, he makes probably $90,000 a year (give or take) doing it like my father. But he builds one or two houses a year out of his pocket, doing so he provides jobs for for landscapers, architects, plumbers, masons, electricians, Carpenters of all kinds, roofers, floor guys, excavation guys, trash disposal guys.. He built one house and had to pay $70,000 in taxes that year, so its like why go through all that trouble just to make $25,000 or so, after taxes.... If the house doesn't sell then he has to pay the mortgage until it sells and potentially take a hit. And he's little compared to some other guys my dad knows. They take the risk, and they get the reward. What your saying looks good on paper, but there's a reason people used to come to America (literally by the boat loads), to get away from where they came from.

[Vincent Vega]

I would vote for Obama because he doesn't seem American.

Thats the exact reason i don't want him in.

How does he not "seem American"? He just seems like a regular President who happens to be black....

He just doesn't, and its not because of his color of his skin. When i see him thats the last thing i think of. He just has different views (socialist) than i do. I'm for people coming here legally with nothing but the shirt on their back and making something of themselves (schwarzenegger, Gene Simmons) but he goes and gives work passes to all these illegal immigrants. What about the people who are still waiting to get here legally? Do they not matter?

Why should someone who just got to this country get free healthcare, mean while my dad is paying $1300 a month,on top of other bills and taxes. We also have shitty coverage.. Its just an incentive for my dad to work harder (or anyone else for that matter) and strive for the next step, something better... AKA The American dream.

The American dream is more an illusion then anything. Sure there are a few examples of people coming to America and make it, or coming from nothing and making it big. But that are rare cases, and most modern western countries have them. It seems that America has some backlash from the cold war regarding sosialisme or anything that seems "red".

Why is universal healtcare and social programs a good thing? Because it doesn't stop the rich from getting richer og doesn't stagger the development of the country, what it does is closing the income gaps between the (in america, ever growing) lower class and the middle class. It makes people in desperate situation less desperate and will therefor not leaving them to do desperate choices. i.e. go to crime etc.

I'm from Norway, one of the most sosialist countries in the world. Ofcourse there are downsides to a high welfare system. We have big taxes to keep the wheels going, and healty people ofcourse complains about that. But when they get sick and need help, they don't have to rely on insurence money og a good deal, the state is taking care of them, and they don't have to pay much to recive alot. It's a safty net for people who for whatever reason can't work. There are a few that milk the system and misuse it, But they are few.

I'm not saying that socialism is perfect, but I do belive that it's a better solution/condition then what is currently the case in the United States of America.

I don't have problems with the rich getting richer. There are some sleaze ball rich guys who dodge tax's and shit but there's a lot of honest guys out there.

My Dad's friend is a General Contractor, he makes probably $90,000 a year (give or take) doing it like my father. But he builds one or two houses a year out of his pocket, doing so he provides jobs for for landscapers, architects, plumbers, masons, electricians, Carpenters of all kinds, roofers, floor guys, excavation guys, trash disposal guys.. He built one house and had to pay $70,000 in taxes that year, so its like why go through all that trouble just to make $25,000 or so, after taxes.... If the house doesn't sell then he has to pay the mortgage until it sells and potentially take a hit. And he's little compared to some other guys my dad knows. They take the risk, and they get the reward. What your saying looks good on paper, but there's a reason people used to come to America (literally by the boat loads), to get away from where they came from.

Yeah, stuff like fucking Potato Famine and oppressive dictatorships....And then they came here and fought for regulations and laws to guard against runaway Capitalism. Fucking hell, do you know what unfettered Capitalism is? Do you know why we have Child Labor laws, or the FDA, or the EPA, or Social Security, or Medicare? Ever read about the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire? Seriously. Read a goddamn history book.

[arnold layne]

Ron Paul. End the fed.

Do you realize that without the Federal Reserve, we'd have a lot more recessions and depressions, and they'd be more severe in nature? Look up the Depression that occurred not long after the Second National Bank was ended.

I think every state should be it's own country.

Minnesota can hold its own.

[GUNSNROSES513]

I would vote for Obama because he doesn't seem American.

Thats the exact reason i don't want him in.

How does he not "seem American"? He just seems like a regular President who happens to be black....

He just doesn't, and its not because of his color of his skin. When i see him thats the last thing i think of. He just has different views (socialist) than i do. I'm for people coming here legally with nothing but the shirt on their back and making something of themselves (schwarzenegger, Gene Simmons) but he goes and gives work passes to all these illegal immigrants. What about the people who are still waiting to get here legally? Do they not matter?

Why should someone who just got to this country get free healthcare, mean while my dad is paying $1300 a month,on top of other bills and taxes. We also have shitty coverage.. Its just an incentive for my dad to work harder (or anyone else for that matter) and strive for the next step, something better... AKA The American dream.

The American dream is more an illusion then anything. Sure there are a few examples of people coming to America and make it, or coming from nothing and making it big. But that are rare cases, and most modern western countries have them. It seems that America has some backlash from the cold war regarding sosialisme or anything that seems "red".

Why is universal healtcare and social programs a good thing? Because it doesn't stop the rich from getting richer og doesn't stagger the development of the country, what it does is closing the income gaps between the (in america, ever growing) lower class and the middle class. It makes people in desperate situation less desperate and will therefor not leaving them to do desperate choices. i.e. go to crime etc.

I'm from Norway, one of the most sosialist countries in the world. Ofcourse there are downsides to a high welfare system. We have big taxes to keep the wheels going, and healty people ofcourse complains about that. But when they get sick and need help, they don't have to rely on insurence money og a good deal, the state is taking care of them, and they don't have to pay much to recive alot. It's a safty net for people who for whatever reason can't work. There are a few that milk the system and misuse it, But they are few.

I'm not saying that socialism is perfect, but I do belive that it's a better solution/condition then what is currently the case in the United States of America.

I don't have problems with the rich getting richer. There are some sleaze ball rich guys who dodge tax's and shit but there's a lot of honest guys out there.

My Dad's friend is a General Contractor, he makes probably $90,000 a year (give or take) doing it like my father. But he builds one or two houses a year out of his pocket, doing so he provides jobs for for landscapers, architects, plumbers, masons, electricians, Carpenters of all kinds, roofers, floor guys, excavation guys, trash disposal guys.. He built one house and had to pay $70,000 in taxes that year, so its like why go through all that trouble just to make $25,000 or so, after taxes.... If the house doesn't sell then he has to pay the mortgage until it sells and potentially take a hit. And he's little compared to some other guys my dad knows. They take the risk, and they get the reward. What your saying looks good on paper, but there's a reason people used to come to America (literally by the boat loads), to get away from where they came from.

Yeah, stuff like fucking Potato Famine and oppressive dictatorships....And then they came here and fought for regulations and laws to guard against runaway Capitalism. Fucking hell, do you know what unfettered Capitalism is? Do you know why we have Child Labor laws, or the FDA, or the EPA, or Social Security, or Medicare? Ever read about the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire? Seriously. Read a goddamn history book.

Exactly,the American people spoke up and did something about it. I know exactly about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire.. You got to calm down, I respect your opinion, no need to be a dick to me.

[bran]

Ron Paul. End the fed.

Do you realize that without the Federal Reserve, we'd have a lot more recessions and depressions, and they'd be more severe in nature? Look up the Depression that occurred not long after the Second National Bank was ended.

I think every state should be it's own country.

Minnesota can hold its own.

thats how the us was supposed to have been run to begin with. every state ran their state the way they wanted, while the government stayed the fuck out of their buisness, the federal government oversaw state to state business, trade, etc

then the government started putting its nose where it didnt belong. a state legalizes medical marijuana the FEDs go in and raid despensiries etc. a state makes a law that enforces fedral laws on a state level, the federal government comes in sues the state for enforing their own fucking laws. both republicans and democrats do it, there is no republicans bad democrats good, or republicans good democrats bad, they are both dumb fucks who need to be kicked out of office

Edited July 6, 2012 by bran

[Bromle]

I don't have problems with the rich getting richer. There are some sleaze ball rich guys who dodge tax's and shit but there's a lot of honest guys out there.

My Dad's friend is a General Contractor, he makes probably $90,000 a year (give or take) doing it like my father. But he builds one or two houses a year out of his pocket, doing so he provides jobs for for landscapers, architects, plumbers, masons, electricians, Carpenters of all kinds, roofers, floor guys, excavation guys, trash disposal guys.. He built one house and had to pay $70,000 in taxes that year, so its like why go through all that trouble just to make $25,000 or so, after taxes.... If the house doesn't sell then he has to pay the mortgage until it sells and potentially take a hit. And he's little compared to some other guys my dad knows. They take the risk, and they get the reward. What your saying looks good on paper, but there's a reason people used to come to America (literally by the boat loads), to get away from where they came from.

Is it possible to lift the discussion from people you know to the system over all. Not becouse the average person isn't important, or the points are not good, but they get cluddered in the context they are given.

John Rawls was a political philosopher from Harvard that in the 70s release a book called "A theory of Justice". There he discussed how to best achive a just system. The reason I bring this up is that he thought that socialism was the best way to govern a country. The reason was based on his brilliant concept of the vail of ignorance. What that concept was built on was the notion that every dicission we make is based upon self presevation and self interest. What he hoped to achive was an intellectual practise that remove those interest. The idea was simple yet imposible. When you dicide what to do, put on an imaginary vail of ignorance that hides from you who you are, and what you are. You don't know if your male/female, if your American or an immigrant, if your wealty or poor. You know nothing about yourself that could give you and advantage after you made the decission. Then would you be able to make the decission that was most fair for everyone. Because you didn't know where you would be after the vail was liftet. Therefore you would try to make it best for everyone and so that you would be covered. And with that though, the social system is the best system, since it is the most fair system for everyone.

Socialisme gives the unlucky a break. You don't get enough money to live a rich life like people who work for a living ofcourse, then all incentive for working would go out the window. I personally belive in second chances in life, and from what I've learned about the American health system, there are some issues there that needs to be dealt with. Is it true that if you don't have insurence and get in an accident that needs multiple surgeries, you are pretty much financially fucked?

It is true that America is built upon the boatloads of people comming to get work. But the problem with the United states and the western world today is something that is best discribed with a scene from the Wire: "We used to buld shit in this country". After WWII America was on top of their game. No other country in the world came close to produce so much BNP as the US. There was industry all over the country, but most of it is not there anymore. Those industries that hasn't gone belly up is now producing their products in Asia. Where the economic growth has been for the last few decades. This problem stretches to almost every "western" country in the world today.

Why is socialisme such a bad thing in America?

[ThomasMeadow]

I don't vote.

[bran]

I don't have problems with the rich getting richer. There are some sleaze ball rich guys who dodge tax's and shit but there's a lot of honest guys out there.

My Dad's friend is a General Contractor, he makes probably $90,000 a year (give or take) doing it like my father. But he builds one or two houses a year out of his pocket, doing so he provides jobs for for landscapers, architects, plumbers, masons, electricians, Carpenters of all kinds, roofers, floor guys, excavation guys, trash disposal guys.. He built one house and had to pay $70,000 in taxes that year, so its like why go through all that trouble just to make $25,000 or so, after taxes.... If the house doesn't sell then he has to pay the mortgage until it sells and potentially take a hit. And he's little compared to some other guys my dad knows. They take the risk, and they get the reward. What your saying looks good on paper, but there's a reason people used to come to America (literally by the boat loads), to get away from where they came from.

Is it possible to lift the discussion from people you know to the system over all. Not becouse the average person isn't important, or the points are not good, but they get cluddered in the context they are given.

John Rawls was a political philosopher from Harvard that in the 70s release a book called "A theory of Justice". There he discussed how to best achive a just system. The reason I bring this up is that he thought that socialism was the best way to govern a country. The reason was based on his brilliant concept of the vail of ignorance. What that concept was built on was the notion that every dicission we make is based upon self presevation and self interest. What he hoped to achive was an intellectual practise that remove those interest. The idea was simple yet imposible. When you dicide what to do, put on an imaginary vail of ignorance that hides from you who you are, and what you are. You don't know if your male/female, if your American or an immigrant, if your wealty or poor. You know nothing about yourself that could give you and advantage after you made the decission. Then would you be able to make the decission that was most fair for everyone. Because you didn't know where you would be after the vail was liftet. Therefore you would try to make it best for everyone and so that you would be covered. And with that though, the social system is the best system, since it is the most fair system for everyone.

Socialisme gives the unlucky a break. You don't get enough money to live a rich life like people who work for a living ofcourse, then all incentive for working would go out the window. I personally belive in second chances in life, and from what I've learned about the American health system, there are some issues there that needs to be dealt with. Is it true that if you don't have insurence and get in an accident that needs multiple surgeries, you are pretty much financially fucked?

It is true that America is built upon the boatloads of people comming to get work. But the problem with the United states and the western world today is something that is best discribed with a scene from the Wire: "We used to buld shit in this country". After WWII America was on top of their game. No other country in the world came close to produce so much BNP as the US. There was industry all over the country, but most of it is not there anymore. Those industries that hasn't gone belly up is now producing their products in Asia. Where the economic growth has been for the last few decades. This problem stretches to almost every "western" country in the world today.

Why is socialisme such a bad thing in America?

pure capitalims and pure socialism are pure junk systems, there has to be some kind of middle ground

[GUNSNROSES513]

I don't have problems with the rich getting richer. There are some sleaze ball rich guys who dodge tax's and shit but there's a lot of honest guys out there.

My Dad's friend is a General Contractor, he makes probably $90,000 a year (give or take) doing it like my father. But he builds one or two houses a year out of his pocket, doing so he provides jobs for for landscapers, architects, plumbers, masons, electricians, Carpenters of all kinds, roofers, floor guys, excavation guys, trash disposal guys.. He built one house and had to pay $70,000 in taxes that year, so its like why go through all that trouble just to make $25,000 or so, after taxes.... If the house doesn't sell then he has to pay the mortgage until it sells and potentially take a hit. And he's little compared to some other guys my dad knows. They take the risk, and they get the reward. What your saying looks good on paper, but there's a reason people used to come to America (literally by the boat loads), to get away from where they came from.

Is it possible to lift the discussion from people you know to the system over all. Not becouse the average person isn't important, or the points are not good, but they get cluddered in the context they are given.

John Rawls was a political philosopher from Harvard that in the 70s release a book called "A theory of Justice". There he discussed how to best achive a just system. The reason I bring this up is that he thought that socialism was the best way to govern a country. The reason was based on his brilliant concept of the vail of ignorance. What that concept was built on was the notion that every dicission we make is based upon self presevation and self interest. What he hoped to achive was an intellectual practise that remove those interest. The idea was simple yet imposible. When you dicide what to do, put on an imaginary vail of ignorance that hides from you who you are, and what you are. You don't know if your male/female, if your American or an immigrant, if your wealty or poor. You know nothing about yourself that could give you and advantage after you made the decission. Then would you be able to make the decission that was most fair for everyone. Because you didn't know where you would be after the vail was liftet. Therefore you would try to make it best for everyone and so that you would be covered. And with that though, the social system is the best system, since it is the most fair system for everyone.

Socialisme gives the unlucky a break. You don't get enough money to live a rich life like people who work for a living ofcourse, then all incentive for working would go out the window. I personally belive in second chances in life, and from what I've learned about the American health system, there are some issues there that needs to be dealt with. Is it true that if you don't have insurence and get in an accident that needs multiple surgeries, you are pretty much financially fucked?

It is true that America is built upon the boatloads of people comming to get work. But the problem with the United states and the western world today is something that is best discribed with a scene from the Wire: "We used to buld shit in this country". After WWII America was on top of their game. No other country in the world came close to produce so much BNP as the US. There was industry all over the country, but most of it is not there anymore. Those industries that hasn't gone belly up is now producing their products in Asia. Where the economic growth has been for the last few decades. This problem stretches to almost every "western" country in the world today.

Why is socialisme such a bad thing in America?

pure capitalims and pure socialism are pure junk systems, there has to be some kind of middle ground

Exactly, too much of anything isn't good.

The reason Socialism in America is a bad thing is because its what we fought against. We fought for Independence from The U,K.

[sweetness]

Romney. I believe he can do a much better job of restoring the economy and cutting down the deficit, in 4 years Obama has proven he doesn't have a clue.

[Bromle]

I don't have problems with the rich getting richer. There are some sleaze ball rich guys who dodge tax's and shit but there's a lot of honest guys out there.

My Dad's friend is a General Contractor, he makes probably $90,000 a year (give or take) doing it like my father. But he builds one or two houses a year out of his pocket, doing so he provides jobs for for landscapers, architects, plumbers, masons, electricians, Carpenters of all kinds, roofers, floor guys, excavation guys, trash disposal guys.. He built one house and had to pay $70,000 in taxes that year, so its like why go through all that trouble just to make $25,000 or so, after taxes.... If the house doesn't sell then he has to pay the mortgage until it sells and potentially take a hit. And he's little compared to some other guys my dad knows. They take the risk, and they get the reward. What your saying looks good on paper, but there's a reason people used to come to America (literally by the boat loads), to get away from where they came from.

Is it possible to lift the discussion from people you know to the system over all. Not becouse the average person isn't important, or the points are not good, but they get cluddered in the context they are given.

John Rawls was a political philosopher from Harvard that in the 70s release a book called "A theory of Justice". There he discussed how to best achive a just system. The reason I bring this up is that he thought that socialism was the best way to govern a country. The reason was based on his brilliant concept of the vail of ignorance. What that concept was built on was the notion that every dicission we make is based upon self presevation and self interest. What he hoped to achive was an intellectual practise that remove those interest. The idea was simple yet imposible. When you dicide what to do, put on an imaginary vail of ignorance that hides from you who you are, and what you are. You don't know if your male/female, if your American or an immigrant, if your wealty or poor. You know nothing about yourself that could give you and advantage after you made the decission. Then would you be able to make the decission that was most fair for everyone. Because you didn't know where you would be after the vail was liftet. Therefore you would try to make it best for everyone and so that you would be covered. And with that though, the social system is the best system, since it is the most fair system for everyone.

Socialisme gives the unlucky a break. You don't get enough money to live a rich life like people who work for a living ofcourse, then all incentive for working would go out the window. I personally belive in second chances in life, and from what I've learned about the American health system, there are some issues there that needs to be dealt with. Is it true that if you don't have insurence and get in an accident that needs multiple surgeries, you are pretty much financially fucked?

It is true that America is built upon the boatloads of people comming to get work. But the problem with the United states and the western world today is something that is best discribed with a scene from the Wire: "We used to buld shit in this country". After WWII America was on top of their game. No other country in the world came close to produce so much BNP as the US. There was industry all over the country, but most of it is not there anymore. Those industries that hasn't gone belly up is now producing their products in Asia. Where the economic growth has been for the last few decades. This problem stretches to almost every "western" country in the world today.

Why is socialisme such a bad thing in America?

pure capitalims and pure socialism are pure junk systems, there has to be some kind of middle ground

I belive that goes without saying. I belive if you go with one system all the way the system becomes a parody of itself. You need adapt the system to the surroundings.

And GNR513, you fought the UK over 200 years ago, I think there is room for a reform that isn't based on past glory.

[WillieC]

I'm not voting but I hope Romney wins.

[Forsaken]

Not voting, shit is rigged, voting does not matter.

Obama has another term headed his way it looks like. No way Romney will win.

[YOUCOULDBEMINE.]

America will vote for a new president and things will get worse. That would be really typical.

[Graeme]

I would vote for Obama because he's slightly closer to the economic ideology that could see the Western world escape its addiction to fossil fuels and start taking some serious action on dealing with Climate Change. Don't get me wrong, the current action taken by the United States on this front is still absolutely pathetic and probably will be until they've metaphorically shafted all the rest of us with a rusty hoe, but if the Republicans gain control of the biggest polluter per capita in the world and continue to deny this problem's very existence, never mind take any action on it, we may end up crossing some serious thresholds in terms of our atmosphere's ability to cope with Greenhouse Gas concentration and a lot of innocent people will suffer and die.

Fuck that.

[WillieC]

Obama has another term headed his way it looks like. No way Romney will win.

I know