Star Wars-The Force Awakens Thread (Contains Spoilers)

[rocknroll41]

So do we think we're going to get another trailer still?

I think JJ said we will get the proper trailer in the fall

[AxlisOld]

What do you think the odds are of getting a completely finished workprint the day it releases like Episode 3?

[Iron MikeyJ]

Maybe the prequels would have benefited from 3 different directors??? Blown your mind I have, hmm???

[Powerage5]

Maybe the prequels would have benefited from 3 different directors??? Blown your mind I have, hmm???

If by "3 different directors" you mean three directors none of whom are George Lucas, then you're absolutely right

Then again, directing is far from the only problem with the prequels.

[luciusfunk]

Part of the director problem is nobody wanted to direct them because Lucas isn't part of the director's guild. He didn't want to direct them.

[Georgy Zhukov]

George Lucas wasn't only the director, he was the writer too. Lucas has great ideas but put into dialogue and structure. it goes to shit.

Indiana Jones is a great example of Lucas's story translated into script.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Does anyone here think that at some point Lucas or perhaps somebody at Disney will go back and tweak the prequels like Lucas did with the OT? Honestly I could see it happening, especially after this trilogy is complete. The story is there, that's not the problem, the problem was more in execution and dialogue. I will say this for Lucas though, his changes he made to the OT were really good things, for the most part anyways.

[Facekicker]

I hope they tweak the prequels with a flamethrower.

[Dan H.]

Does anyone here think that at some point Lucas or perhaps somebody at Disney will go back and tweak the prequels like Lucas did with the OT? Honestly I could see it happening, especially after this trilogy is complete. The story is there, that's not the problem, the problem was more in execution and dialogue. I will say this for Lucas though, his changes he made to the OT were really good things, for the most part anyways.

I think the prequals are too far gone for tweaking. They'd have to be remade entirely. And that's a job nobody will want to take on

[Dr. Who]

He did a great job with American Graffiti and the original 1977 Star Wars as sole director and writer. Problem is he had way too many yes-people on the prequels. But people don't really give Lucas credit today. He's an extremely talented guy.

[luciusfunk]

You can tweak effects, you can't tweak dialogue without something new being filmed. Unless you want a movie hat looks like an old kung fu movie.

[Facekicker]

He did a great job with American Graffiti and the original 1977 Star Wars as sole director and writer. Problem is he had way too many yes-people on the prequels. But people don't really give Lucas credit today. He's an extremely talented guy

And I think that is the biggest shame about the prequels. They really damaged his legacy. Certainly in the immediate sense anyway. Much like Axl and CD

I have said it before - Lucas and Axl have many, many, similarities.

[luciusfunk]

Axl is just like George Lucas. Look at evolution of The Blues in 2001/2 to Street of Dreams in 2008 or any of the songs he tinkered with over the years.

[Dr. Who]

I actually think The Phantom Menace was a great film. Not as great as the original trilogy, but no worse than ROTJ.
Attack of the Clones was probably the shittiest film I've seen in the theater (and I got dragged to see Twilight in the theater)

Revenge of the Sith was a C grade film.

People hate on Phantom but I actually think it was the only one of the lot as good as the originals. It had that sense of adventure, whimsy and purity that the first movie had. I

[Facekicker]

Let's not drag this thread back to discussing those awful awful films.

[AxlisOld]

I actually think The Phantom Menace was a great film. I actually think it was the only one of the lot as good as the originals. It had that sense of adventure, whimsy and purity that the first movie had.

[Dr. Who]

I actually think The Phantom Menace was a great film. I actually think it was the only one of the lot as good as the originals. It had that sense of adventure, whimsy and purity that the first movie had.

Go back and watch ROTJ without nostalgia goggles sometime. Same tone as Phantom, same jokeyness...And it even feels low budget to boot. ROTJ is only saved by the scenes between Vader, the Emperor and Luke.

[AxlisOld]

And Phantom Menace has Jar Jar.

/discussion

[Dr. Who]

And Phantom Menace has Jar Jar.

/discussion

Ewoks

[AxlisOld]

Ewoks are adorable, and they know how to murder. That AT-St had a guy driving it, and they fucking smashed him with logs. Gungans throw big blue marbles at robots and drool a lot. No amount of Ewok cuteness could be as stupid as the Gungan king.

[Dan H.]

I actually think The Phantom Menace was a great film. I actually think it was the only one of the lot as good as the originals. It had that sense of adventure, whimsy and purity that the first movie had.

Go back and watch ROTJ without nostalgia goggles sometime. Same tone as Phantom, same jokeyness...And it even feels low budget to boot. ROTJ is only saved by the scenes between Vader, the Emperor and Luke.

ROTJ is saved by a lot of things, that Phantom doesn't have, like character arcs, a plot that is easy to follow, tension, emotional drama, and action sequences that have something at stake.

Phantom Menace is God awful. Not as bad as Clones mind you, but TPM has no protagonist, all of the characters are boring and dry. Nobody has any real sense of emotion, and their "mission" is so convoluted and boring. The whole point of the movie was to give us Anakins origins(which it waits to do until 45 minutes into the movie) and to show the roots of the rise of Palpatine(which it waits to do until an hour and a half into the movie, and doesn't even introduce him as a character until about the same time).

It's filled with awkward emotionless political dialogue, noticeably racist characatures, weak action, no clear villain, and no stakes.

It heavily implies that there is some kind of crisis on Naboo, and while it could have easily shown scenes of suffering, destruction, concentration camps, or torture to get us to root for the heroes, it never does. We never see the "crisis". We never care about the "Trade Federation" and why they're invading Naboo because nothing that happens makes any kind of sense and is completely boring.

The army of the Federation are a bunch of bumbling, inconsequential, completely inadequate robots that are just cannon fodder, and while the storm troopers slowly dissolved into campy cannon fodder by ROTJ, it was established early on that they were menacing, and they were reminiscent of Nazi's.

They had a great opportunity to play off Darth Maul as a quiet, collected, and ruthless monster, but barely showed him, made him a meaningless peon, and then murdered him at the end. Imagine Darth Maul being written like Javiar Bardem's character in No Country For Old Men, how dope would that be. (Maul looked great, scary, and serious but in contrast to the bright grassy landscapes and constant inappropriate interjections of humor just comes off as awkward and misplaced).

On top of countless other issues that shouldn't be called nitpicky, but in the context of this sloppy mess I guess they can be, i.e. we never needed to see child Anakin, Qui Gon didn't need to be a character, Jar Jar was poor kiddie humor(even Pixar movies do better at children's humor. The Ewoks look brilliant next to him). You could have dropped a lot of the boring politics, I realize if they were going for a Palpatine rise to power type thing they had to include some sort of political mumbo jumbo, but just write him as a Frank Underwood House of Cards type character.

It wasted a lot of precious time that we could have had with Jedi Anakin and carefully laying out his manipulation and downfall, time that looks even more precious considering how rushed and awkward his turn was in ROTS, going from good guy who tried to snitch on Palpatine to brutal child murderer in just a few scenes.

The only positives I can say about the film are that the pod racing scene out of context was very cool, and provided the only moments of tension in the whole film, and that out of all three prequel movies this is the only one that LOOKS like Star Wars. There's a lot of practical and on site shooting and effects, it looks gritty and grungy like the older films without any of the shiney soft and elegant sets and green screens like AotC and RotS. The new aliens and new aspects of the universe are interesting and feel like Star Wars, including the Gungan City, the weird transports, the pod races, the battle droids, and Darth Maul.

Other than that the movie is boring, hollow, emotionless, and half of the time nonsensical and stupid. It's the most frustrating prequal because I can think of a few ways that I personally could have written the script better than Lucas, using the framework of the film, and have it be more effective.

Clones and Sith are more fun to watch because of the action, clear plot, and motivations of the characters. There's more emotion and they're easier to follow. (I'm typing that with a huge eye roll). But both of those films are too far gone for me to consider ways that they could have been written better. Clones is so fucking stupid and contains some of the worst acting, CGI, dialogue, and characters I have ever encountered, and RotS comes off like George Lucas finally "got it" but it was too little too late and he had to rush through a plot that should have been stretched over all three films in one movie. I guess he thought it would be cool to make it "super dark" too.

Ratings

Sith is the best because people get murdered, Palpatine is awesome and brilliantly evil and manipulative(especially because all the other characters are dumb) it contains some forced humanity and emotion, and actually tries to be an enjoyable film.

Phantom is second best because it is imaginative, has great set pieces, good cinematography, neat effects, feels like a Star Wars movie, and has a somewhat salvageable script.

Clones is the worst thing that has ever been created by a human and is so bad that even when I watched it as a stupid kid for the first time I found it so blatantly offensive that I was to the point of raw anger with brief interjections of boredom and groans.

And don't compare RotJ to this shit. It was the weakest of the OT but it had very strong characters, meaningful action, proper tension, a decent script, and satisfactorily wrapped up the trilogy. It actually felt like a fucking movie, whereas the prequels feel like expensive fan fiction.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Dan H.

[luciusfunk]

One thing to nitpick about your post. Palpatine is introduced right after Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan escape the droid ship. But otherwise, yeah it takes a while to get to him.

[Dan H.]

One thing to nitpick about your post. Palpatine is introduced right after Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan escape the droid ship. But otherwise, yeah it takes a while to get to him.

True, but as Darth (it's obviously the same bad guy from the OT) Sideous.

I think if they had made The Phantom Menace some kind of political, espionage, mystery thriller, that it could have succeeded, and quite easily. But again, the film just reeks of a director/writer who seems to think that Star Wars is only about the imagery, and not the substance.

That film as I said in my lengthy ass post is so frusterating because with a couple of cuts, reshoots, and a competent producer with the balls to stand up to Lucas, could have been a fine Star Wars film that takes it at a different angle.

Instead it feels like Lucas wanted a lighthearted adventure, a silent sadistic villain, a political backbone story, a mystery/thriller subplot, with heavy comic relief (remember, it's all about the kids, Jar-Jar is the key to everything!) and a dose of groan worthy tie-ins and references to the OT to sell toys.

It's just a big sloppy ass mess. If they had done it like Pirates of the Caribbean(the first one) with the added element of a creepy mysterious villain(Maul) and a dash of the political back bone, it would have been fine. Maybe 30 minutes longer, but no one would bitch about a long run time on the first Star Wars movie in a decade+.

I was like the target demographic of the prequels, iirc Phantom Menace came out in the 90s? I was born in 1990, grew up with a dad who showed me the OT all the time as a child, and even as a kid I remember being a little confused JUST about the whole Palpatine Sideous thing. Like I didn't know if the robed dude was SUPPOSED to be the Emperor or if like, he was a new bad guy who just dressed exactly like the Emperor? I remember thinking that maybe all the supreme bad guys in Star Wars all dressed in creepy hooded robes.

It turns out it was just a really fucking dumb nod to the OT, when it could have been harnessed into a cool mystery/dramatic reveal arc.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Dan H.

[AxlisOld]

Jesus Christ, Dan.

Yea, all that stuff he said.

[Powerage5]

I agree with almost everything Dan said about TPM, except I like Qui-Gon as a character.