Axl is Guns N Roses ?

[ARBeast]

Axl: " Guns N' Roses is my life and no one elses."

Did he really say that? If so he should have showed up to the HOF

[Ace Nova]

What a lot of you young bucks, "New generation" Guns fans fail to realize is... that it was all of them that made Guns N' Roses what they were.... and have become. Anyone that tells you different is delusional.... and doesn't know or understand Guns N' Roses.

[Hollywood Gunner]

Axl is Guns N' Roses?

Fuckin' right he is. Without him nothing works.

No Axl and you get that pathetic joke that was the Hall of Fame lineup, led by Myles Kennedy

To me, the RRHOF tarnished its own name by letting miles kennedy even step on stage to play the part

Yuck!

[wasted]

What a lot of you young bucks, "New generation" Guns fans fail to realize is... that it was all of them that made Guns N' Roses what they were.... and have become. Anyone that tells you different is delusional.... and doesn't know or understand Guns N' Roses.

I think you can understand that and still see those guys didn't want to do what needed to be done next, whereas Axl was willing to stand and fight or wait it out til he got a record. but the basically broke up but Axl couldn't leave it. Maybe it would be wiser to go solo. I think he did have more invested on an emotional level, like he seemed to live the records and lyrics, whereas Slash or Izzy had more or cynical attitude to certain songs. For me if you have a singer like Axl or Tyler the band has to support him. Axl is kind of the heart and soul of what GNR became after UYI came out.

The problem is that when Steven got fired Slash should have put his foot down and said that's it, this is Zepp without him we're nothing. Then when Izzy goes for sure it should have been over. But they got in Matt and Gilby and said we're good. God bless Izzy he couldn't do it anymore, Steven who? Then on the tour they got Axl'd. Then they go into to the studio and no Izzy songs, just Axl ballads and his plans. So then quit in a big huff, it's all Axl's fault. Fine, but they have to take responsibility for the mess. From the fans point of view we can look at from a purist point of view easier. The classic line up did AFD, the world beater, game changer. Then say that's what we want. But maybe doesn't work like that. From Axl's point of view it's like the AFD guys quit because they had an Appetite for Destruction. They needed to quit to save they lives. Then he's sitting there thinking well I'm fucked then. That's my career over. Sure he was erratic and a pain in the ass on a bad day. But Axl doesn't seem like non stop unreasonable. So if they wanted to stay they could, Axl begged Izzy to stay. Slash threw Steven under the bus a bit, but he's just a drummer, right?

So I mean given the choice between nothing and what we have now, a solid touring band to play the hits and what Axl thinks is worthy of GNR. I'll take the latter, but it will never be the same again.

[Intercourse]

I think you can understand that and still see those guys didn't want to do what needed to be done next, whereas Axl was willing to stand and fight or wait it out til he got a record.

I don't think this is fair. Duff (a less polarising individual than Slash or Matt) stated that Axl just didn't seem to know what he wanted mucisally and that after two / three years of trying Axl felt that nothing the guys did was good enough. That's an impossible position to put any musician in, unless they are purely in it for the money. Axl did this for so long that Bucket and Robin also quit long after the old guys did - don't forget that. Axl's journey was not one based on standard time frames or logic...

Maybe it would be wiser to go solo

I think he should have. Just shelve the name GNR and go out there without that bruden of responsibility and show the world your vision. I think if he had done this in 1998 - 1999 he could have been a huge solo artist and sold millions. There was enough interest in him and his music. he could go pick up GNR when he felt like it but always be able to go back to the solo gig to bring out his electronic side.

For me if you have a singer like Axl or Tyler the band has to support him

Yeah but for how long? Its not logical to give Axl total freedom to put many lives and careers on hold while he thought this out (or not as the case often was). This was just fucking rock music, he wasn't developing a cure for cancer.

This is not about old band versus new, people from both camps quit in frustration and boredom. The stories are out there, engineers sitting in studios for weeks, A Perfect Circle releasing a platinum album because Josh had so much spare time to write and record while he hung around waiting for Axl.

Axl cannot always.get the diplomatic pass. Each band member played his part in how things got to where they are today. Axl needed a mentor who could have moved him away from his more self pitying and controlling excesses while the other fuckers should have been locked in a rehab and sorted out. The band had no balls when it came to Axl and were ok to let him drift away behind a wall of yes men.

I think Lars in Metallica is a dick most of the time but I truely admire the way he got in Jame's face in that HORRIBLE film Some Kind of Monster and just started shouting "WHO ARE YOU?" He broke through to James, despite how unpleasant it was to watch.

Axl needed that kind of tough love challenge from his band but instead they slunk off to the bar..

[wasted]

Thats just the side I fall on. I just think after two or three years Axl may not have known, but if they could have hung in there I think by 2000 theyd have found it, or Axl would have come round. No doubt Axl takes much longer but some of the new GNR delays arent about productivity.

If Slash and Duff were producing the UYI era type stuff in the studio it hasnt leaked. Maybe the Crash diet, Sentimental movie is that stuff?

I agree it could be Axls stranglehold over GNR that made those guys leave. Axl was or became so invested in it that even Better which was a Robin song becomes an Axl Rose song. I think that is how all the best GNR songs are though.

The reality is Slash and Duff arent Izzy. Not many songs coming from them. And not many from Axl.

Maybe its just Axl saw the future, grunge industrial bands, the landscape changed, the best they could hope to do was put out mediocre albums and milk the fanbase based on the line up. But Izzy and Steven already gone. So they could have found a way to be a big touring band. But Slash and Duff had to hang in there, it would have worked out. Even wait til 2000 and work with Axl as they could, as GNR.

I just dont think GNR was the band they wanted to be on, touring SCOM and Nov Rain. With Axl making them do This I Love and Catcher in the Rye.

I think thats what they realised, its all about Axl, if its not its over. Its not fair, but thats life.

[wasted]

Axl isnt James though. I cant see it working out. Their tough love in a way didnt work. because theres others like Del who dont see the big problem Axl had. Those guys were hammered all the time. Its not a one sided thing.

[wasted]

Thats whats weird Axl doesnt seem to value success as much as doing his music how he wants.

But it could be as simple as for a band that got big doing straight from the heart stuff, then basically saying fame sucks and abusing their position and doing awesome ott epics on UYI, they really didnt have much more to say. CD seems to be about dictators or in the face of people saying you cant do it Axl did it, that creates a situation to fuel it. its a bit like if Bourne completed a mission then went back to kill everyone who sent him on the mission because thats all he knows how to do.

These two things are connected. Going solo wheres the fuel. Bitching about GNR related issues in solo is no way as interesting as doing it under the GNR name. Sure Axl could go solo and write songs about his cats and do the theme tune to Turbo 2. but first it seems he wanted the last say in GNR.

Edited November 21, 2013 by wasted

[Nosaj Thing]

When you're talkin' to yourself, and nobody's home...

[wasted]

I wont be told anymore

[2x4]

If things went the other way and Axl was the one who left GN'R while Slash and/or one or all of the rest stayed together as Guns with a new singer, Guns N' Roses would not have had the "success" they have had post '96 with Axl up front.

Side note: You can argue the definition of "success" all you want. It is beside the point.

[magisme]

If things went the other way and Axl was the one who left GN'R while Slash and/or one or all of the rest stayed together as Guns with a new singer, Guns N' Roses would not have had the "success" they have had post '96 with Axl up front.

Side note: You can argue the definition of "success" all you want. It is beside the point.

Velvet Revolver was just as successful as Nu, and they didn't even have the GNR name to carry them, so you're completely wrong.

[Dazey]

Watch the Ritz show in '88 any show 2002 onwards. Watch the Sweet Child Better video. That is Guns N Roses.

Agreed

No offence but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[Young_Gun]

Slash, Duff, and Izzy signed the name over to Axl.

Oh wait, I forgot... Axl bullied them into doing so. He was such a cunning brilliant mastermind that each of them was swindled and bamboozled out of the name.

Axl runs the show. Everyone knows it. He's the President of GnR.

Izzy verbally revealed that he left because of Axl's antics, demands, tardiness, cutting his percentage and making the whole band pay for breaking concert curfew. Duff and Slash have said Axl gave him an ultimatum, sign over the name or it all ends. How are you gonna twist all of this?

[Fin]

There is no GnR. There is only the non-active Old GnR and the active Nu GnR.

Old GnR can never exist again since key members Slash and Izzy are done as high quality musicians.

Axl is a keymember in Nu GnR. I see Bumble and Fortus as important for Nu GnR lineup as well. Are they irreplaceable? I don't know.

[wasted]

Slash, Duff, and Izzy signed the name over to Axl.

Oh wait, I forgot... Axl bullied them into doing so. He was such a cunning brilliant mastermind that each of them was swindled and bamboozled out of the name.

Axl runs the show. Everyone knows it. He's the President of GnR.

Izzy verbally revealed that he left because of Axl's antics, demands, tardiness, cutting his percentage and making the whole band pay for breaking concert curfew. Duff and Slash have said Axl gave him an ultimatum, sign over the name or it all ends. How are you gon

na twist all of this?

but he also said it was bcos he didnt want to watch Slash and Duff die on tour. A lot of it was business stuff they had to deal with not Axl dictatorship just regular business stuff.

[John Bonham]

Skip to 1:18. Axl Rose talks about why he got the AFD tattoo.

"It could only ever be the five of us."

[wasted]

This why we believe. That was the dream. Real life sucks.

[SoulMonster]

So at one time Axl was naive and thought GN'R would always consist of the AFD lineup. People change. How is this even an argument in this discussion?

[Young_Gun]

Slash, Duff, and Izzy signed the name over to Axl.

Oh wait, I forgot... Axl bullied them into doing so. He was such a cunning brilliant mastermind that each of them was swindled and bamboozled out of the name.

Axl runs the show. Everyone knows it. He's the President of GnR.

Izzy verbally revealed that he left because of Axl's antics, demands, tardiness, cutting his percentage and making the whole band pay for breaking concert curfew. Duff and Slash have said Axl gave him an ultimatum, sign over the name or it all ends. How are you gon

na twist all of this?

but he also said it was bcos he didnt want to watch Slash and Duff die on tour. A lot of it was business stuff they had to deal with not Axl dictatorship just regular business stuff.

Lollllll rightttttt. I'll believe that as soon as I start shitting out gold.

[Sisyphus]

Skip to 1:18. Axl Rose talks about why he got the AFD tattoo.

"It could only ever be the five of us."

That is one of the nicest moments in Axl/Slash history. Their exchange about Slash's hair was very funny.

So at one time Axl was naive and thought GN'R would always consist of the AFD lineup. People change. How is this even an argument in this discussion?

He doesn't even say that. His message is the complete opposite.

''I just felt that no matter what happens with this band, where it went, what we sold, broke up, changed, whatever or any other members, at that time it was the most important thing. I wanted something that will always remind me of what was once there. A symbol of it.''

Axl is actually acknowledging that the future of this band and it's members is very uncertain and he watned this memory if or when something changed.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Sisyphus

[saber_]

Slash, Duff, and Izzy signed the name over to Axl.

Oh wait, I forgot... Axl bullied them into doing so. He was such a cunning brilliant mastermind that each of them was swindled and bamboozled out of the name.

Axl runs the show. Everyone knows it. He's the President of GnR.

Izzy verbally revealed that he left because of Axl's antics, demands, tardiness, cutting his percentage and making the whole band pay for breaking concert curfew. Duff and Slash have said Axl gave him an ultimatum, sign over the name or it all ends. How are you gonna twist all of this?

Izzy left because of Axl? That's rich. Axl might've been one reason, but he wasn't the only. Izzy said that he couldn't hear his guitar on stage. He also said that after Steven was shitcanned, nothing worked. So, being the supposedly consummate GnR fan you claim to be, one would think you would have a broader perspective. Such drama though. lol

As far as Axl's "ultimatum," Axl never presented the papers to them. Goldstein did. I know you don't believe Axl, but I encourage you to read the chats again. As Axl stated, if he truly forced them to sign the name over, they could've easily slayed him in court later on. I believe the term is "under duress." Look it up sometime.

Lollllll rightttttt. I'll believe that as soon as I start shitting out gold.

You just seem to have a very narrow perspective, most likely because you're harboring some pent-up resentment of Axl.

Try to broaden your scope. It's not as simple as you staunchly think it is.

[Chuloputas]

bono is not u2, jagger is not the stones, mccartney is not the beatles, plant is not led zeppelin, ozzy is not black sabbath, axl is not gnr

[D-GenerationX]

If things went the other way and Axl was the one who left GN'R while Slash and/or one or all of the rest stayed together as Guns with a new singer, Guns N' Roses would not have had the "success" they have had post '96 with Axl up front.

Side note: You can argue the definition of "success" all you want. It is beside the point.

It would have been Van Hagar. They'd still be touring 20,000 arenas to this day.

[2x4]

If things went the other way and Axl was the one who left GN'R while Slash and/or one or all of the rest stayed together as Guns with a new singer, Guns N' Roses would not have had the "success" they have had post '96 with Axl up front.

Side note: You can argue the definition of "success" all you want. It is beside the point.

Velvet Revolver was just as successful as Nu, and they didn't even have the GNR name to carry them, so you're completely wrong.

Velvet Revolver was a great band but they didn't get the attention or crowd sizes Guns N' Roses did.