Axl is Guns N Roses ?

[Apollo]

VR was actually more successful than Axl's GnR was. Not sure why people still claim that they weren't. Sold more records, received more critical acclaim, had more hits, released more music, interacted with their fans.

I hated their music, but I can still admit they were more successful than current day GnR.

NONE of us know exactly what happened with name thing. Nobody on this forum knows for sure. There is Axl's version. Slash's version. Duff's version. Random people associated with it. Somewhere in all those opinions is the truth. But some people on here need to stop acting like they KNOW what really happened when the boys signed the name over. Because you don't know. Especially some 18 year old kid on here who likes to act like he knows all the inner workings of the old band.

In terms of almost any band's success, the lead singer is almost always the most important. Simply because his voice dominates most of the songs.

Put Traci Guns into GnR instead of Slash and would they have still been as successful? Probably pretty close.

Put Phil Lewis into GnR instead of Axl and would they have still been as successful? No. Not even close.

But all of that is just speculation and things to chat about for FUN. It shouldn't be something that people get mad over.

GnR was the best rock band in the world for about a 5-6 year period and it wasn't because of ONE person. It was because they had an amazing vocalist, two great guitar players, a solid bass player and two decent enough drummers. It wasn't specifically because of any one of them, it was the sum of all their parts.

And to answer the topic's question.

Axl is Guns n Roses? No. Axl owns the name and is in the band.

I believe officially GnR is Axl, Fortus, DJ, BBF, Stinson, Dizzy, Pitman and .........heck, I don't even know who the current drummer is. Frank or Brain?

Guns n Roses is NOT Beta and Fernando though. The fact they have so much power over Axl is - IMO - the reason this band is in such a mess.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Groghan

[Apollo]

^ Libertad was not successful.

The first album was. Sold more copies than CD. Produced more hits than CD. Won a Grammy. Had great touring numbers. And they were able to put out two albums in a three year period, as opposed to Axl putting out one album in 15 years.

Like I said, I didn't like either album. Found them both boring and generic. But the facts don't like. It's not a bash against Axl to say that another band was more successful than his band. It's reality.

Hopefully Axl will release more music in the future and this entire conversation will be reversed. If he'd released 4 albums since the classic line-up, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

I'm positive that I'll always like anything Axl does more than anything Slash releases. Unfortunately, Axl rarely gives me that opportunity.

[Facekicker]

Axl is Guns N' Roses?

There is a joke about the bands collective BMI vs Axls in there somewhere....

[Mr. Dude]

Axl founded GNR, named GNR, and has always been the creative catalyst. I think GNR is about a certain spirit/attitude. Axl emodies that feeling.

[volcano62]

but I can still admit they were more successful than current day GnR.

Question is why?

[alfierose]

but I can still admit they were more successful than current day GnR.

Question is why?

They struck gold twice in finding another controversial and charismatic frontman. We tend to discuss VR here as being about Slash and Duff but the reality is it was more about Scott. Hence why VR is no more.

[Apollo]

but I can still admit they were more successful than current day GnR.

Question is why?

I guess because they were a basic straight forward rock n roll band. And they were fan and media friendly.

If CD had come out earlier, if Axl had done a proper media tour, if they'd released a couple videos, and if CD would have been an exclusive deal with Walmart instead of Best Buy..........I bet CD would have done better.

And I would bet all the money I own that Axl's next album will completely dominate VR's second album in every category.

[saber_]

Chinese Democracy outsold Contraband in every country except the U.S.

Contraband sold 4 million worldwide, with 2.9 million being sold in the U.S.

Not really that much more successful than Chinese Democracy in terms of raw album sales. But I wouldn't expect Groghan to acknowledge that- he treats everyone on here like he treats the people he works with at his day job.

[magisme]

Don't worry about context, brainsaber. Just go ahead picking fights. Don't worry that the entire discussion of VR and Nu's respective successes began because someone made the unfounded claim that the other members of GNR together couldn't have been as successful billed as GNR without Axl as Axl has been billed as GNR without them. Don't worry about anything besides fueling these stupid forum wars of yours that seem to give your life purpose.

[saber_]

Don't worry about context, brainsaber. Just go ahead picking fights. Don't worry that the entire discussion of VR and Nu's respective successes began because someone made the unfounded claim that the other members of GNR together couldn't have been as successful billed as GNR without Axl as Axl has been billed as GNR without them. Don't worry about anything besides fueling these stupid forum wars of yours that seem to give your life purpose.

What the fuck are you talking about? Have you even read the past few pages? Young Gun quoted a post of mine, I responded to it, then Groghan commented on it. Or did you not see that? It would seem you're the one that's missing the context.

You seem to be quite disgruntled the last few days. The only forum war is in your mind. And you can drop the faux-concern for the purity of the forum. Half of your posts are jabs at Axl or talking shit about nuGuns. So run along now.

[magisme]

Yup. I'll keep talking about the band the site is dedicated to. You keep bitching at other members. Sounds like a plan, buddy.

[Apollo]

Chinese Democracy outsold Contraband in every country except the U.S.

Contraband sold 4 million worldwide, with 2.9 million being sold in the U.S.

Not really that much more successful than Chinese Democracy in terms of raw album sales. But I wouldn't expect Groghan to acknowledge that- he treats everyone on here like he treats the people he works with at his day job.

Why so angry? Why do you have to insult people in every post? This topic isn't about ME, so how about leaving your personal grudges aside and just focus on the topic.

Your "stats" prove that my statements were correct.

VR's first album outsold CD. That's a fact. Whether it was by 3 copies or a million copies. And I wasn't aware the conversation was centered around who sold the most copies in each individual country. Please link me to that post as I seemed to have missed it. I thought we were discussing overall sales. But since you bring it up, it is also quite telling which band sold more albums in the USA, since both bands are American based bands. Good point - thanks for sharing that part!!!

And I don't treat all the people here like I treat the people I work with........just those that share a lot of the same similarities and intelligence levels.

[Padme]

but I can still admit they were more successful than current day GnR.

Question is why?

They struck gold twice in finding another controversial and charismatic frontman. We tend to discuss VR here as being about Slash and Duff but the reality is it was more about Scott. Hence why VR is no more.

I don´t think so. The whole thing started during the Randy Castillo benefit concert. There Slash, Duff and Matt reunited. They thought it was good idea to form a new band. They begun jaming together, even Izzy showed up. He called Slash and of course he was welcome. Then Slash and Duff wanted to find a singer/frontman. Izzy didn´t like the idea and he left. According to Duff book they auditon many singers. Nobody was good enough. Scott was fired from STP. His wife was friend of Duff wife. And since he was an established singer and he was from Seatle. Duff was the one who pushed for him to be their singer. Unfortunately it didn´t work for them so they fired him. And the infamous Slash visit to Axl´s house. And Axl´s statement about it didn´t help VR situation either.

[Apollo]

Yup. I'll keep talking about the band the site is dedicated to. You keep bitching at other members. Sounds like a plan, buddy.

Exactly.

The weird part is that he continually accuses other people of being angry.......but the majority of his posts revolve around him carrying on grudges with other forum members rather than just chatting about GnR with other posters. NOTHING from the post I made should have made him angry - yet he responses by attacking me and crying about album sales. Who knows, maybe he is angry about the DJ chat last night or maybe he's got a hangover or something.

Let it go Brainsaber, it's not healthy for you or the forum. Maybe just try ONE day of forum posting without attacking somebody. Spend one day just chatting about GnR without insulting one of the people you constantly rail against. It would really help eliminate a lot of the negativity on the forum. Just a suggestion.

[saber_]

Yup. I'll keep talking about the band the site is dedicated to. You keep bitching at other members. Sounds like a plan, buddy.

The only one bitching here is you, in your last post. Again, I encourage you to actually read the last few pages.

Chinese Democracy outsold Contraband in every country except the U.S.

Contraband sold 4 million worldwide, with 2.9 million being sold in the U.S.

Not really that much more successful than Chinese Democracy in terms of raw album sales. But I wouldn't expect Groghan to acknowledge that- he treats everyone on here like he treats the people he works with at his day job.

Why so angry? Why do you have to insult people in every post? This topic isn't about ME, so how about leaving your personal grudges aside and just focus on the topic.

Your "stats" prove that my statements were correct.

VR's first album outsold CD. That's a fact. Whether it was by 3 copies or a million copies. And I wasn't aware the conversation was centered around who sold the most copies in each individual country. Please link me to that post as I seemed to have missed it. I thought we were discussing overall sales. But since you bring it up, it is also quite telling which band sold more albums in the USA, since both bands are American based bands. Good point - thanks for sharing that part!!!

And I don't treat all the people here like I treat the people I work with........just those that share a lot of the same similarities and intelligence levels.

I'm not really sure where the insult was. Yeup, I don't see one. I really think you are just copy pasting the same things over and over. Of course, earlier on you made a post which, and I quote, said: " Especially some 18 year old kid on here who likes to act like he knows all the inner workings of the old band." But that's not an insult, right? And what you wrote at the end of this post wasn't an insult either, was it? Slight hypocrisy there, but that's another story.

Oh and by the way, later on in your earlier post, you brushed aside what Marc Canter has said. Again, as I told Young Gun, if we think critically about this, then a picture becomes clear that Axl's perceptions and Duff's/Slash's/Izzy's perceptions probably were impacted by intermediaries such as Doug Goldstein.

Now, back to the sales thing, which you seem to be once again focusing only on the United States only. Chinese Democracy was more successful than Contraband worldwide, except in the U.S. So while you keep reiterating that Contraband was more popular overall, you seem to be purposely ignoring the fact that Chinese Democracy was more popular in every other country. I'm starting to wonder if you're xenophobic. That was not an insult, by the way.

[saber_]

Yup. I'll keep talking about the band the site is dedicated to. You keep bitching at other members. Sounds like a plan, buddy.

Exactly.

The weird part is that he continually accuses other people of being angry.......but the majority of his posts revolve around him carrying on grudges with other forum members rather than just chatting about GnR with other posters. NOTHING from the post I made should have made him angry - yet he responses by attacking me and crying about album sales. Who knows, maybe he is angry about the DJ chat last night or maybe he's got a hangover or something.

Let it go Brainsaber, it's not healthy for you or the forum. Maybe just try ONE day of forum posting without attacking somebody. Spend one day just chatting about GnR without insulting one of the people you constantly rail against. It would really help eliminate a lot of the negativity on the forum. Just a suggestion.

I'm not angry bro, no matter how many times you copy paste it over and over. If I attacked people as much as you claim I do, I would've been banned a long time ago.

Now, let's get back to chatting about GnR.

Axl is GnR, at least now anyway. See there? I implicitly admitted that in the past, GnR was Axl/Steven/Izzy/Duff/Slash.

[Young_Gun]

So you are saying Goldstein was not instructed by Axl to present and enforce the ultimatum? That he did it on his own?

BAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Seriously, you must be a cupcake. No one could be so naive.

Where did I say that Goldstein was not instructed by Axl?

Since my point seems to have eluded you, let me rephrase it: Goldstein portrayed it differently to both Axl and Slash/Duff/Izzy. Do you understand now? Get it?

And yes I know that Axl's aloofness and separation are partially to blame here.

I guess it's too much to expect for you to even attempt to think critically about an issue that has many facets.

Again, I would encourage you to re-read the Axl chats (among other things, as pointed out by another poster). I wonder if you ever actually took the time to read them in the first place.

I have read all of Axl's posts. They come off as the rantings of a bi-polar sociopath who cannot accept blame for anything and feels no remorse, guilt or empathy. I guess you don't see that.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Young_Gun

[prcrezende]

As many have said, no way Axl IS guns, but, you know... It's the lead singer that usually contributes the most to the personality of a band, it's sound, what it means to us when we listen, etc. Once they got popular, replacing anyone would be controversial enough, but replacing Axl.... Although sometimes an instrumentalist with a lot of presence can be untouchable too, and even tough I'm not the biggest Slash fan, he did sorta helped define the Guns sound and to a lot of people guns "was" him.