wasted Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Scorsese likes doing "American Dream" stories, DiCaprio did a character study on someone he wanted to understand the motivation behind doing something horrible to people, and why he let himself get consumed by it. He understands better than anyone what that lifestyle is like, but not the way Belfort went about it. They know money can make for a potentially boring topic, so they have to get into the sex, drugs, and excess. Piers Morgan's talking to Belfort tonight on CNN. Movie review from an interesting perspective. http://www.thereformedbroker.com/2013/12/29/my-wolf-of-wall-street-review/I think the point I took away from it was how he wasn't really punished, and money is a cure all. Belfort is a sociopath, that wasn't emphasised. He was used to show you the power of money. That in fact the world is corrupt. Nobody gets rich without doing something horrible or illegal. To be middles class is to make a reasonable amount of money doing something beneficial to society. It's working classes who dream of making money hand over fist for doing nothing.It takes an extreme example like Belfort, Bateman, Gecko to make this point. And audiences love to be told the truth. If even for the duration of a movie, the truth is a release from the lies of their lives. Edited January 21, 2014 by wasted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 working class hero But Belfort was never anything but middle class - that is actually stated in the opening monologue - so how can he be a working class hero? He stole from the working class to get where he was.I made a mistake analyzing this film because it's not an accurate depiction of Belfort, it's just entertainment. To be fair he says he was "a former member of the middle-class raised by two accountants in tiny apartment in bayside queens."He rejected those middle-class values to take up the working class sport of dwarf tossing. There's grey areas here, but he's a manipulator or hero of the working class mentality maybe.I was really referring to the audience of the movie, as the values he embodies aren't middle-class, it's more a working class escapist fantasy live out by a sociopath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) To be fair he says he was "a former member of the middle-class raised by two accountants in tiny apartment in bayside queens."I don't know what warped reality you live in, but being raised by two accountants is not a working-class upbringing. What you have to do is consider "tiny apartment" in the context of a rabid capitalist (in other words, his taste of the American Dream has minisculed everything prior).There certainly isn't a theme of class-warfare, he just has to spend time as a wolf in sheep's clothing. Edited January 21, 2014 by NGOG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 To be fair he says he was "a former member of the middle-class raised by two accountants in tiny apartment in bayside queens."I don't know what warped reality you live in, but being raised by two accountants is not a working-class upbringing. What you have to do is consider "tiny apartment" in the context of a rabid capitalist (in other words, his taste of the American Dream has minisculed everything prior).There certainly isn't a theme of class-warfare, he just has to spend time as a wolf in sheep's clothing.His words were he was formerly middle class. I took it to mean he didn't follow in such stable foot steps. His role was to become the hero or leader of these working class guys with these kind of dreams. As he says in the diner. I agree he's not from a working class background. Although all those people in bayside seem really working class. His wife cuts hair. He's on Piers Morgan right now. He seems a bit crazier in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 On a side note, you can be working class and be accountants. It's not just income based. Maybe it is in the US. His dreams of money seem very working class values to me. Middle class would emphasise education and career not as he says making money hand over fist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 His words were he was formerly middle class. I took it to mean he didn't follow in such stable foot steps. His role was to become the hero or leader of these working class guys with these kind of dreams.I think you're mistaken. Belfort is narrating the story in the now (as opposed to when he was actually working pink slips). In other words, he says he was formerly a member of the middle-class because he then became a member of society's elite.I don't understand why you're gathering some sort of working-class theme. Belfort is clearly motivated by the mechanisms provided by capitalism. This guy regards himself as the greatest salesperson of all time, elevating the pink slip staff was just about vindicating that sense of narcissism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 His words were he was formerly middle class. I took it to mean he didn't follow in such stable foot steps. His role was to become the hero or leader of these working class guys with these kind of dreams.I think you're mistaken. Belfort is narrating the story in the now (as opposed to when he was actually working pink slips). In other words, he says he was formerly a member of the middle-class because he then became a member of society's elite.I don't understand why you're gathering some sort of working-class theme. Belfort is clearly motivated by the mechanisms provided by capitalism. This guy regards himself as the greatest salesperson of all time, elevating the pink slip staff was just about vindicating that sense of narcissism.It's just my impression of him from the movie. That he at the very least became or joined the working class mentality. Like someone says in the diner what working class guy doesn't want to get rich? I think you're right though its not central to his motivations. He's a sociopath. Is there any reason given for his love or pursuit of money? He says its the biggest drug there is? Scorsese is pretty smart though as the issues of his character, the satire aren't it seems the point of his movie. It's more that money is the ultimate power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 He is still desperate to make money: http://jordanbelfort.com/sales-order-b/?utm_expid=69902236-1.3gPnRYtCTVe8KU4XObm7UQ.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 It seems to be within the bounds of the law now. He only did 22 months and now he's back out there. He conned Scorsese into promoting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 It seems to be within the bounds of the law now.He only did 22 months and now he's back out there. He conned Scorsese into promoting him.Exactly. He's still playing the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facekicker Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I'd expect nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysteron Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 On a side note, you can be working class and be accountants. It's not just income based. Maybe it is in the US. His dreams of money seem very working class values to me. Middle class would emphasise education and career not as he says making money hand over fist.General rule of thumb, if you get paid weekly you are working class, if you get paid monthly you are middle class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facekicker Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Great interview with Piers Morgan on CNN just now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 On a side note, you can be working class and be accountants. It's not just income based. Maybe it is in the US. His dreams of money seem very working class values to me. Middle class would emphasise education and career not as he says making money hand over fist. General rule of thumb, if you get paid weekly you are working class, if you get paid monthly you are middle class.It's a pretty decent guide. I'm English, I could not get paid and live in a bin and still be middle class. It doesn't just denote income.Simple example, one person works in a university as librarian gets 10k. He sees a guy digging roads outside his window who makes 20k in weekly instalments.I think in the case of Wolf, he was middle class, them maybe joined Wall Street stockbrokers remaining middle class until it collapsed. Where he then joined the working class selling penny stocks. Turning to crime to become rich or the Wall Street elite. To become filthy rich is a working class dream.The middle class FBI agent is presented as being morally above him on the boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Loved it, best film I've seen in years. DiCaprio should just skip Best Actor and be awarded Best Human. Amazing how actors such as Matthew McConaughey, Spike Jonze, Rob Reiner and Jean Dujardin get to shine in their brief screen time.The country club 'luudes scene was a highlight.Can't see how the film can be seen as condoning Belfort, even with his cameo. I think the one quality that it does praise is Belfort's charisma, with the "sell me this pen" schtick, and you can't fault him there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 third time I saw it, I just thought it's all a bit of a caper isn't it?It takes a sociopath to really get the party started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GivenToFly Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I don't know if anybody mentioned him in this thread but how fucking good was Jonah Hill in this movie? Totally owned the role, I loved him. The scene in the mall parking lot was my favorite in the whole film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The country club 'luudes scene was a highlight.My favourite scene is Belfort showing his penny stock colleagues how to make a big-sale.The scene in the mall parking lot was my favorite in the whole film.Right on.What about explaining being married to his cousin? And openly masturbating at the house party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 How about I chop your credit card up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Mark Hanna, who was portrayed by Matthew McConaughey: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Dujardin is unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITG Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 That movie is going to make it harder to watch other movies. Everything else will feel like an 80s sitcom from now on. I wish I could erase my memory and watch it again.Gloria! Gloria! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Watched it the other day. What an amazing movie. It's amazing. Surely gonna watch it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosaj Thing Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 What about explaining being married to his cousin? And openly masturbating at the house party?Funny scene. Also the one explaining what to do with a retarded kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facekicker Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I never thought I'd say this - I hope Jonah Hill gets an Oscar. Also, how many takes until DiCaprio nailed this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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