Mel Gibson;

[Estranged Reality]

Can't stand him, jew-hating cunt.

I think I've debated you on this before, but I don't think he's consciously anti-Semitic. I think he's a raging alcoholic whose dad was a Holocaust denier and who probably has all kinds of repressed issues that surface after heavy drinking. I'm not defending his statements or his behaviour, but as someone who's had alcoholic blackouts and said/done things I'd NEVER do in my 'normal' mindset, I'm not at all surprised that someone who grew up with a notorious bigot and anti-Semite would perhaps have such thoughts buried deep in their psyche.

At the end of the day Hollywood is FULL of truly fucked up individuals. You gotta separate the art from the artist.

In Gibson's case he was a very gifted, charismatic screen presence. Unfortunately he has faced a huge decline since his arrest, and as you say, he's not doing much lately but part of the reason for that is because no one wants to hire him. It's unfortunate in some regards, I would still like to see a Lethal Weapon 5.

Proof of his acting talent, at least:

Whatever man, conciously, sub-conciously, possessed by the ghost Joseph Mengele, i don't know, i just take it in the straight ahead sense of listening to the shit that comes out of the mans mouth, I ain't interested in being his therapist. And i do separate the art from the artist, he's simply not a particularly good actor. He's not bad by any means but he's certainly not exceptional or a notable talent. As far as that clip of Lethal Weapon, that to me just looks like a pisshead acting a scene where he has to act like a pisshead.

His acting is at best enough to hold your attention and at worst fucking dire. Booze ain't an excuse for nothing. If you can't hack a fuckin' drink then don't take one but don't blame drink for your showing yourself up as the cunt that you truly are (not you, Gibson )

I didn't tell you that you needed to act as his therapist.

I simply think there's a whole lot of awful scum and filth in Hollywood to begin with and if you judge people based on that, you wouldn't be left with many artists worth respecting. What Gibson said was foolish and racist but I do think he is a talented actor, whereas you apparently don't, so there's not much we can say to change each other's minds.

[bacardimayne]

doesn't lenny glorify sid vicious?

[Guest Len B'stard]

doesn't lenny glorify sid vicious?

Yes but I don't attempt to justify Sid Vicious. I presume you're talking now about the swastika thing. There was a point behind why they used the swastika and it wasn't a celebration of Nazism, it was the de-construction of an offensive icon and a sort of situationist presenting of said icon as a means of challenging certain notions held by previous generations. Now you can agree or disagree with that and God knows Sid probably didn't have the suss to wrap his head around the concept but it is what it is, Sid was not an anti-semite. I mean his girlfriend Nancy was jewish, his manager Malcolm McLaren was jewish.

Sid was an absolute idiot and a fool however he is somewhat unique in being so in that, through chance almost, he found himself positioned as some sort of living embodiment of the ideals a youth culture movement, for better or worse. Thats the level upon which Sid Vicious is fascinating, I have never attempted to suggest that him and his character bears scrutiny in terms of reflected prejudices or whatever, I see Sid Vicious as a sort of genial idiot that would be saying one thing with a sentence and then completely contradict himself with the next...and then again with the next. If anybody should find someone like Sid offensive it's people like myself, I mean i recall reading an interview with him and Nancy from the 70s where they were in a cab and mentioned that they 'hate pakis'. I've seen Sid call black people 'spades' in an interview before, yet some of his best friends, people like Don Letts, were black.

I just have a real serious problem with holocaust deniers. That whole affair showed a great many people the very ugliest incarnation of the human animal, it was a really really really dark episode of human history, it was just atrocious beyond anything that my paltry words can condense and define within the framework of a post on an internet forum, it deserves to be remembered and remembered and remembered and remembered, those people simply must not have died in vain, we owe every last one of those people at very least respect, at very least to hear their stories out and listen solemnly, with heads bowed, we owe them at very least hear the stories of all the atrocities and deaths and pain and degradation they went through, it cannot have been for nothing and the only way we can make something out of it is by doing this and teaching future generations this shit so it never ever ever ever happens again.

And then to NOT do that...and to deny it...even in the face of insurmountable indisputable clear as the nose on your face evidence, to attempt to write of those people and their lives, to attempt to tear that page out of history for whatever reason (and worst of all, because of a personal prejudice something akin to the perpetrators of the crime) is simply disgusting. It is foul beyond description and I just cannot stomach the sight of people like that, they make me recoil in disgust, everything about them from the inside out is disgusting, their very faces and their awful twisted looking smiles to me are just an affront of human decency, there is something so fundamentally rotten about people like that, they make me sick beyond description.

Now I ain't saying Gibson is one but his old man is and he's clearly influenced by that motherfucker. I don't even hate Gibson, i feel sorry for him, i really do, i pity that guy. He just seems like a crazy old fart that gets drunk and yells at himself about nothing in particular. Let him rave on that men shall know him mad I guess.

Comparing him, a person who has something of a weight of intellect (and i use the term loosely) behind certain opinings, him and his mental old man, to a genial twit like Sid Vicious who would say anything if he thought it'd get your attention doesn't really work.

And this whole bullshit you always hear of like 'OMG, we're infringing Mels rights, the jews of Hollywood have spoken and he is now persona non gratia' it's like shut the fuck up with the bullshit, no one likes him cuz he's a cunt, thats the issue with Mel. There are certain things you do in this world that will get you pegged as a cunt, it ain't no international conspiracy whereby ranks are closed on Mel for daring being a maverick and expressing some sort of taboo opinion, like he's challenging something, he's fucking not, he's done something that puts you in the cunt category...and it weren't a one off neither.

[dalsh327]

I wonder if Mel's whole thing with building a church on his property was a tax write off, and a way to protect some of his movie money.

Sid was a goofy kid who wound up in some seriously fucked up circles. Once he was left to his own devices in New York with someone way smarter than him (but highly emotionally unstable and too young for what she went through), it was a disaster waiting to happen. Lydon wasn't in a place to help him, and probably had no idea what was going on with Sid being that he was in Jamaica during that time, and I think Steve and Paul were in California with Joan Jett and trying to get their own band off the ground. I'm sure if they knew what was going on, Branson would have sent some goons into the Chelsea and took him somewhere to get clean.

[Angelica]

I think he's a nasty cunt. Which has no bearing on his value as an artist, I just don't think he's much of an artist. As both an actor and director he's of the 'good for a movie star' variety.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Angelica

[The Sandman]

Get The Gringo and The Beaver were great.

i thought his performance in the beaver was quite brilliant on its own terms but the film as a whole was let down by its saccharine direction. jodie foster is talented but i think it was her debut as a director and it really showed. in the hands of a more talented filmmaker it could have been a masterpiece.

It is a masterpiece. Such a great movie.

[Estranged Reality]

Get The Gringo and The Beaver were great.

i thought his performance in the beaver was quite brilliant on its own terms but the film as a whole was let down by its saccharine direction. jodie foster is talented but i think it was her debut as a director and it really showed. in the hands of a more talented filmmaker it could have been a masterpiece.

It is a masterpiece. Such a great movie.

i thought the elements were in place and it had a great cast, but the only word for its direction that i think really fits is 'saccharine' or perhaps pedestrian. it was her first film to be fair but it just really would have been better in the hands of a more talented filmmaker, imo. then again, a more talented filmmaker probably wouldn't have wanted to cast gibson in it.

i'm glad you liked it though.

[dalsh327]

Get The Gringo and The Beaver were great.

i thought his performance in the beaver was quite brilliant on its own terms but the film as a whole was let down by its saccharine direction. jodie foster is talented but i think it was her debut as a director and it really showed. in the hands of a more talented filmmaker it could have been a masterpiece.

It is a masterpiece. Such a great movie.

i thought the elements were in place and it had a great cast, but the only word for its direction that i think really fits is 'saccharine' or perhaps pedestrian. it was her first film to be fair but it just really would have been better in the hands of a more talented filmmaker, imo. then again, a more talented filmmaker probably wouldn't have wanted to cast gibson in it.

i'm glad you liked it though.

The movie got more attention when Jennifer Lawrence became famous than it did when it came out. Bryan Cranston would have been a good choice to be in it, and he hadn't been in "Breaking Bad".

[Estranged Reality]

gibson was the best part about it, though. it eerily paralleled his real-life troubles (even though the role had originally been attached to steve carrell).

it probably would have gotten more attention if it came out a year later, because of lawrence's rise to fame. anton yelchin is pretty talented too but never really took off.

[grouse]

How the fuck has nobody mentioned braveheart in this thread, one of the top ten movies ever in my book

[Ace Nova]

How the fuck has nobody mentioned braveheart in this thread, one of the top ten movies ever in my book

One of my favorites as well!

[James Bond]

I don't think he's a mindblowing actor or anything but I've enjoyed pretty well every film I've seen him in. Yes, he's a tool in real life but I don't tend to focus on that. I can enjoy his work for what it is. I'm looking forward to him being the villain in the new Expendables.

[JONEZY]

I always liked "The Patriot" and "Ransom".