Has it ever been this negative before?

[Amir]

This is the worst since I found the site in 06 or 07

Well, the year in between the album and Taipei was bad too

You serious? All the forums were buzzing in 2006. Hands down this is the most negative I've seen the forum in the 10 years I've been frequenting.

Sad thing is this'll probably be taken as a good thing by GNR/TB, because all we apparently make are "Complaints, complaints, complaints", and are never happy, ever.

[saber_]

This place has been way worse. There's been a couple of times. D&N was littered with redundantly identical threads saying the same tired things over and over about cancelled tours, axl's voice, DJ Ashba, blah blah blah. The threads were not merged, people were allowed to say horrid, horrid shit about Axl and the band. I think it might have been right before HV and Subs took over.

There also was another time, but I can't remember. If you dig through Support, you can see some threads discussing the aforementioned worse times.

[tippin]

I remember back in '05 it was terrible..there wasn't much hope for an album or tour, so fake insiders took it upon themselves to post bullshit stories based on "sources"..One of those people even managed to secure a fairly high up forum position which he holds to this day..Never understood that..

[classicrawker]

A couple of new songs and a few tweets from Axl letting people know what's up and all would be forgiven

[CAFC Nick]

This is the worst since I found the site in 06 or 07

Well, the year in between the album and Taipei was bad too

You serious? All the forums were buzzing in 2006. Hands down this is the most negative I've seen the forum in the 10 years I've been frequenting.

Sad thing is this'll probably be taken as a good thing by GNR/TB, because all we apparently make are "Complaints, complaints, complaints", and are never happy, ever.

That was when the show was run by proven, professional management that actually had Axl working and out of his comfort zone. Say what you want about Merck but I think he got a lot of shit done.

[Rodzilla72]

This place has been way worse. There's been a couple of times. D&N was littered with redundantly identical threads saying the same tired things over and over about cancelled tours, axl's voice, DJ Ashba, blah blah blah. The threads were not merged, people were allowed to say horrid, horrid shit about Axl and the band. I think it might have been right before HV and Subs took over.

There also was another time, but I can't remember. If you dig through Support, you can see some threads discussing the aforementioned worse times.

Also- if you dig through some really old threads (just go way back in the Discussion & News section to like 03, 04, etc) you get a sense of how downright sad it was. For example here's a thread about what sales figures might look like for CD- from January 2004 .... can you imagine going back and telling those folks "hey no worries- you'll find out in only FIVE SHORT YEARS!!!"?

Sorry- I don't even remember my point- those super old threads just really got to me...

[Amir]

This is the worst since I found the site in 06 or 07

Well, the year in between the album and Taipei was bad too

You serious? All the forums were buzzing in 2006. Hands down this is the most negative I've seen the forum in the 10 years I've been frequenting.

Sad thing is this'll probably be taken as a good thing by GNR/TB, because all we apparently make are "Complaints, complaints, complaints", and are never happy, ever.

That was when the show was run by proven, professional management that actually had Axl working and out of his comfort zone. Say what you want about Merck but I think he got a lot of shit done.

From what I can gather Merck seems to be the guy who really believed in ChiDem and was close to getting it released. Yeah, he was a businessman, but this open letter seems sincere (and implies that it was Axl's writer's block that meant the album wasn't released in '06):

An Open Letter To Guns N' Roses Fans From Merck Mercuriadis

Along with all of the other Guns N' Roses fans around the world I read "An Open Letter To The Fans From Axl" this evening with much interest. About half way through it occurred to me that I had read much of this before. In fact, I had written the blueprint for it in an email for Axl's attention two days ago which I have copied below.

The reality is all of this year's touring was planned and agreed between Axl and myself, with a view to the album being in the stores before the 31st of December '06. This was confirmed by Axl in numerous interviews - most famously at the MTV Video Music Awards. We planned the tour in February, just after Axl's birthday and we were supposed to finish the album in May, before it started. We sent our engineers to New York, where we all waited, for over a month, for the muse to come but she never arrived. We then scheduled sessions in London in August and had our engineers meet us there at the end of the English tour. August came and went and once again the muse did not show. We postponed our proposed radio date of Labour Day for the first single and we came back to LA and tried to finish before the San Francisco, Las Vegas and Los Angeles shows but yet again she eluded us. Axl then asked me to postpone the North American tour which was due to start on 24th of September by a month and finally, early in that period after the euphoria of Inland Invasion, Axl made a break through and got two or three very productive days under his belt.

At this point we were very excited as Axl's feeling was that we had two or three days of work left to tidy things up and we still had three weeks before the tour started, so we were in good shape. Unfortunately the muse disappeared just as fast as she came and the tour started with no single at radio to support it and the album still needing two or three days of work. Despite this, it was a break through period as Robin, Bumblefoot and Frank had all made important contributions to the album that made it even stronger. By the way none of the above is meant as a criticism of Axl. It is the reality of trying to create something special under incredible pressure from the public - that wants and DEMANDS the record - and the record industry - that NEEDS it. The creative process is not something you can dictate and Axl is a true artist.

At this time I seriously considered postponing the start of the tour, again, as the album was of paramount importance but the reality was that our historic track record left us with very little good will with you, the fans, and we needed the money to be able to complete the album and keep the band alive. We scheduled sessions in New York and once again sent the engineers there for the first two weeks of November while the tour was based there - but the hectic touring schedule meant nothing got done. The record company refused to conclude the renegotiation until we were ready to hand over the finished album and refused to prepare a marketing campaign or commission video treatments until they had it in their hands. This is still their position as of this week.

At this point despite the success of many of the dates on the tour the pressure on all of us became unbearable. While some of Axl's letter is disappointing - As John Lennon once asked Paul McCartney "How Do You Sleep?" - until you have walked a mile in his shoes you cannot begin to comprehend the pressure he is under. I know I sleep well at night in the knowledge that when Chinese Democracy hits the streets in March that it is in large part down to my efforts over the last almost 5 years. I found the money and the motivation to keep Axl and the band alive and get the record made when everyone else had given up and walked away. We worked as a team united to make Chinese Democracy a reality. In the end the album will speak for itself but our relationship could not survive the pressure.

I have no regrets. I believe Chinese Democracy is one of the best albums ever made, Axl Rose is one of the greatest vocalists and front men and the new Guns N' Roses (which kicks the shit out of the old) is one of the greatest bands. What we accomplished in 2006 only hints at what is to come.

I believe in Axl Rose. I am the artist's manager and it is my responsibility and job to take the heat. I promise you Chinese Democracy is worth it and you should keep the faith. I will walk away knowing I have done my best and that next year will see Axl recognized not only as a great singer and rock icon but as one of the greatest artists of all time.

Merry Christmas and all the best to you for 2007!

Merck Mercuriadis

[Zint]

The meltdown on the old message board after the 2002 tour cancellation was fairly significant.

[iftheworld]

Well the problem with this forums is it supports haters and people who generally disrespect Axl. You can't defend the band anymore without being banned. I miss Eric. But what can you do. Just sit back and take it. I honestly wish Axl would shut this place down and wouldn't release any material because it would be what you all deserve.

[Crazyman]

I think the negativity is around because the band is, at best, stagnant. While this has happened before there was always a hope based on the potential of what was to (eventually) come.

There's no anticipation or hope or any of that because the band hasn't given the fans any reason to believe. Years and years of the same basic setlist, no real updates on a new record, etc, etc.

Not to mention Axl's voice being completely shot at this point.

[CAFC Nick]

Yeah Merck seemed to tow a line between appeasing Axl and making sure he got work done. IMO we haven't seen a manager be that successful since the early days. RTB by all accounts managed to completely fuck everything up, same with Azoff but for completely different reasons. Such a shame that Axl is now surrounded by such yes men that won't light the fire under his backside to get him working. As has been said in previous threads, it's clear that Axl's best work is when he has a gripe or a point to prove. That modus operandi vanished several years ago it seems.

[Powerage5]

Well the problem with this forums is it supports haters and people who generally disrespect Axl. You can't defend the band anymore without being banned. I miss Eric. But what can you do. Just sit back and take it. I honestly wish Axl would shut this place down and wouldn't release any material because it would be what you all deserve.

Come on man, do you realize how stupid all of that sounds? Literally no one has ever been banned just because they defend the band. If that was actually the case, you'd be long gone. If everyone had the same point of view, there'd be nothing to discuss. Just because someone doesn't support Axl's current happenings doesn't make then a hater. Plenty of people that have always been really supportive of Axl seem to be getting fed up, so that makes them haters for wanting to see him succeed on a creative level? Give me a break.

[Val22]

People will always bitch and moan about something. It seems to me that whatever Axl does or doesn't do, people get pissed off at him.

Even if Axl releases new music, some fans are going to hate it. They want the Axl from 1988 and he's gone. All those original members are gone. They have all changed and moved on and unfortunately everyone gets older, that's life.

Even if the original 5 GNR members got back together, it would be different. Axl's voice won't automatically sound like he did when he was 25. It's not going to happen. Even the music will be different because the members aren't as hungry as they were when they were starting out and had no record deal and slept in the music studio or strippers' houses. Different people different times.

Axl is doing the best he can. he's picked musicians he likes to play with. Whether he records with them, who knows? I don't think Axl can ever re-capture the magic of the original GNR. It was the band that changed the world. I don't think there's been a band since that shock up the music world like they did. Be happy they all still alive and making music. GNR's music will always live on even if Axl doesn't sing it anymore.

[Apollo]

Well the problem with this forums is it supports haters and people who generally disrespect Axl. You can't defend the band anymore without being banned. I miss Eric. But what can you do. Just sit back and take it. I honestly wish Axl would shut this place down and wouldn't release any material because it would be what you all deserve.

That's ridiculous. There are plenty of posters here who not only defend Axl on a daily basis, but they do so in a majorly trolling type way (defending everything, no matter what). You'd almost fall into that group. Look at your last sentence. What kind of fan are you? You wish our favorite singer - and your favorite singer - would stop releasing music just to annoy 7-8 people on an internet forum? Seeing Bobbo complain would mean more to you than if Axl released a double-album tomorrow?

Seriously dude, you are just as bad as the people you are complaining about.

The reason this forum has the largest audience of all the GnR forums is because the Mods allow people to speak their minds.

[maynard]

Well the problem with this forums is it supports haters and people who generally disrespect Axl. You can't defend the band anymore without being banned. I miss Eric. But what can you do. Just sit back and take it. I honestly wish Axl would shut this place down and wouldn't release any material because it would be what you all deserve.

[Apollo]

People will always bitch and moan about something. It seems to me that whatever Axl does or doesn't do, people get pissed off at him.

Even if Axl releases new music, some fans are going to hate it. They want the Axl from 1988 and he's gone. All those original members are gone. They have all changed and moved on and unfortunately everyone gets older, that's life.

Even if the original 5 GNR members got back together, it would be different. Axl's voice won't automatically sound like he did when he was 25. It's not going to happen. Even the music will be different because the members aren't as hungry as they were when they were starting out and had no record deal and slept in the music studio or strippers' houses. Different people different times.

Axl is doing the best he can. he's picked musicians he likes to play with. Whether he records with them, who knows? I don't think Axl can ever re-capture the magic of the original GNR. It was the band that changed the world. I don't think there's been a band since that shock up the music world like they did. Be happy they all still alive and making music. GNR's music will always live on even if Axl doesn't sing it anymore.

Sort of like you are doing now? No matter what happens, posters on here will come complain about other posters. Just like you are doing.

But your description is not Axl related. It happens to EVERY major person in the entertainment industry. Singers, bands, writers, actors, directors, athletic teams, painters, etc. If you have millions of fans, every piece of art you create is not going to be 100% accepted and loved. From The Rolling Stones to Steven Spielberg to Clint Eastwood to the Los Angeles Dodgers. No matter what they do, somebody will complain. To attach this specifically to Axl is ludicrous.

But what most people do - or should do - is not dwell and obsess on the small number of negativities and instead focus on the positives. Instead of whining about a few people on a message board, why not concentrate on the millions of people who loved the latest output?

People like you who constantly feed into the "the world is against Axl" thing do just as much damage and spread just as much negativity to these boards as the people you always complain about.

[saber_]

Something to ponder...

Who has been banned more, the anti-Axl "comic" brigade or the Axl defense force?

Edited March 28, 2014 by saber_

[ColdHeartBreaker]

People will always bitch and moan about something. It seems to me that whatever Axl does or doesn't do, people get pissed off at him.

Even if Axl releases new music, some fans are going to hate it. They want the Axl from 1988 and he's gone. All those original members are gone. They have all changed and moved on and unfortunately everyone gets older, that's life.

Even if the original 5 GNR members got back together, it would be different. Axl's voice won't automatically sound like he did when he was 25. It's not going to happen. Even the music will be different because the members aren't as hungry as they were when they were starting out and had no record deal and slept in the music studio or strippers' houses. Different people different times.

Axl is doing the best he can. he's picked musicians he likes to play with. Whether he records with them, who knows? I don't think Axl can ever re-capture the magic of the original GNR. It was the band that changed the world. I don't think there's been a band since that shock up the music world like they did. Be happy they all still alive and making music. GNR's music will always live on even if Axl doesn't sing it anymore.

Sort of like you are doing now? No matter what happens, posters on here will come complain about other posters. Just like you are doing.

But your description is not Axl related. It happens to EVERY major person in the entertainment industry. Singers, bands, writers, actors, directors, athletic teams, painters, etc. If you have millions of fans, every piece of art you create is not going to be 100% accepted and loved. From The Rolling Stones to Steven Spielberg to Clint Eastwood to the Los Angeles Dodgers. No matter what they do, somebody will complain. To attach this specifically to Axl is ludicrous.

But what most people do - or should do - is not dwell and obsess on the small number of negativities and instead focus on the positives. Instead of whining about a few people on a message board, why not concentrate on the millions of people who loved the latest output?

People like you who constantly feed into the "the world is against Axl" thing do just as much damage and spread just as much negativity to these boards as the people you always complain about.

You just accused somebody of doing something you do every time you post - you even did it in that very same post.

[Apollo]

People will always bitch and moan about something. It seems to me that whatever Axl does or doesn't do, people get pissed off at him.

Even if Axl releases new music, some fans are going to hate it. They want the Axl from 1988 and he's gone. All those original members are gone. They have all changed and moved on and unfortunately everyone gets older, that's life.

Even if the original 5 GNR members got back together, it would be different. Axl's voice won't automatically sound like he did when he was 25. It's not going to happen. Even the music will be different because the members aren't as hungry as they were when they were starting out and had no record deal and slept in the music studio or strippers' houses. Different people different times.

Axl is doing the best he can. he's picked musicians he likes to play with. Whether he records with them, who knows? I don't think Axl can ever re-capture the magic of the original GNR. It was the band that changed the world. I don't think there's been a band since that shock up the music world like they did. Be happy they all still alive and making music. GNR's music will always live on even if Axl doesn't sing it anymore.

Sort of like you are doing now? No matter what happens, posters on here will come complain about other posters. Just like you are doing.

But your description is not Axl related. It happens to EVERY major person in the entertainment industry. Singers, bands, writers, actors, directors, athletic teams, painters, etc. If you have millions of fans, every piece of art you create is not going to be 100% accepted and loved. From The Rolling Stones to Steven Spielberg to Clint Eastwood to the Los Angeles Dodgers. No matter what they do, somebody will complain. To attach this specifically to Axl is ludicrous.

But what most people do - or should do - is not dwell and obsess on the small number of negativities and instead focus on the positives. Instead of whining about a few people on a message board, why not concentrate on the millions of people who loved the latest output?

People like you who constantly feed into the "the world is against Axl" thing do just as much damage and spread just as much negativity to these boards as the people you always complain about.

You just accused somebody of doing something you do every time you post - you even did it in that very same post.

Except that's not true.

I've made several positive posts today about Axl and CD.

You and a couple other guys seem to conveniently "miss" all the positive posts I make. I wonder why that is?

I don't mind you, or anybody, disagree with what I post. But it would be nice if you guys would actually point out exactly what you disagree with or why you think I'm wrong. And if you wouldn't use hyperbole with comments like "every time you post" because that's simply not true. Even if I just made ONE positive post, it would make your statement false. The fact that I make several positives posts every time I come here.....well, that just makes your statement look silly.

So was the main point of my last post wrong?

Is the world really out to get Axl? Or was I correct in that there will always be complainers for ALL entertainers?

[ColdHeartBreaker]

No, I wasn't commenting on your positivity about GnR or whatever, more-so how you think it's OK to lecture how others post and then question why other people do exactly that.

[Apollo]

No, I wasn't commenting on your positivity about GnR or whatever, more-so how you think it's OK to lecture how others post and then question why other people do exactly that.

Gotcha.

I only do that on those who have the strangest opinions.

The reason this forum is the best is because they allow so many different opinions.

Seriously, I don't mind if people disagree with me or think I'm wrong. It would just be cool if they would express why. And not just go into the "axl is the greatest no matter what, you are just mean, haters, cupcakes, etc, etc, etc."

The people I'm typically "arguing" with on here, you'll notice they are normally the more crazy or the ones who defend Axl's every move. It's just a mindset I don't understand. Lenny and I used to argue on a daily basis in Anything Goes. But that guy will give you reasons why he believes what he does, and reasons why he thinks you are wrong. Debating with him is fun......because often you'll end up learning something and maybe even changing your point of view. But some of the people in D&N, lol. At the next show Axl could show up four hours late, sing one song, burp in the mike, tell everybody to go f*ck themselves, and then walk off stage. And you know there would be a small group of posters on here who would be not only defending Axl, but would be praising the show!!! Those are the people I end up arguing with.

Iftheworld just said that because of a few posters on here who complain all the time, he hopes that Axl NEVER releases another album. Think about that statement. He cares more about 7-8 complete strangers on a message board than he does in Axl releasing 5 more albums worth of music? How can you have a serious discussion with people who have that attitude? I'd pay $500 for a GnR box set tomorrow......this guy hopes Axl stops release music.....yet I'm the negative one?

Edited March 28, 2014 by Groghan

[Allen8R]

Before this account I had one shortly after the forum started, but hardly posted and rarely used it, eventually forgetting the username and password. It was just after the failed 02 tour imploded and in the year or so after when we entered what most old school forum members refer to as the Dark Ages, where absolutely nothing happened - I think that's when the negativity reached the highest levels ever. There always has been negativity in one way or another (lets face it, it sucks being a GNR fan most days) but never as bad as 2003 - 2004.

A8R

[Tom2112]

Well the problem with this forums is it supports haters and people who generally disrespect Axl. You can't defend the band anymore without being banned. I miss Eric. But what can you do. Just sit back and take it. I honestly wish Axl would shut this place down and wouldn't release any material because it would be what you all deserve.

Sorry guy, you are what's wrong with GnR. Defend the good things that need defending, as for the bad things that are unequivocally bad either stay quiet or agree with us... we are huge guns fans, but we live on planet earth and on planet earth Axl is not god, he makes mistakes, he sometimes does substandard vocal performances and he sometimes writes songs that aren't gods gift to music.

[saber_]

If it's any consolation, Slash's appearance on Bill Maher is not allowed to be discussed on this forum since it causes negativity.

[Forsaken]

If it's any consolation, Slash's appearance on Bill Maher is not allowed to be discussed on this forum since it causes negativity.

It wasn't Slash's discussion on Maher, it was how the thread quickly turned into an Axl vs Slash debate. It happens. Also how you posted a slam comment toward another member that may have potentially derailed the thread even more-so(which would've been removed anyway, even if the thread wasn't locked) Why are you taking it so personal? Relax man. We discussed this privately already.