English (The Language)

[Thin White Duke]

In Portugal, there are subtitled TV series and films too. That helps a lot and makes it more natural. And you learn without much effort.

[Redhead74]

Ah...the old good clichés. If they were just accurate.

I've been both to Spain and France several times, there weren't many people who spoke English. And if they did it was mostly broken English.

Did you speak French though ?

My experience was that once you speak even the tiniest, crappest bit of French the French will only communicate in French back to you. I would use what little French I knew and would actively learn how to say the things that I needed to ask (out of respect for the fact that I was in their country and wanted to make an effort) and and they would always respond in French, which I quite often couldn't understand because I hadn't been taught the kind of replies I might receive. When I replied "je ne comprends pas" they would just keep saying the same thing in French. That means they either couldn't speak any English or didn't want to make a fool of themselves because their English was as crap as my French.

[Redhead74]

So, what about Portugal?

I am aware of what you are saying and I know it's general opinion but it's normally old people the ones who don't speak English because it wasn't even taught at school. French was taught instead. And it's more difficult to speak it properly for us because we are used to other pronunciations. I guess it must be easier for people from places of German speaking languages. But it's just my guess.

However, among youngsters (people under 40 or 35) speaking English is more and more common. And all kids are now taught on school since they are very little.

I think Portugal is a bit different from Spain in that regard. Portuguese is a small language too, while Spanish is a world language. The more people speak your language, the less you'll be inclined to learn foreign languages. As Dutch speaking people, we have to have at least basic knowledge of French and English. While Spanish speaking immigrants in Belgium get by in Spanish (at least in the cities).

I totally agree with that. I almost added it to my post actually.

You can travel half the world speaking Spanish, including the US. And there are people who have studied French in many countries. So I guess it's sometimes the same reason why English people dont bother learning other languages, while people from countries with less spoken or less relevant languages tend to learn the most spoken ones. Especially English.

I don't think it has anything to do with bothering or not bothering. I think many people who only speak English would love to know another language but the fact is unless you're in a position to actually use the language and are immersed or exposed regularly to the language it's actually really difficult to make all the hours of learning amount to anything. Some people will do it as a hobby because they're just really into it but for most people the opportunities aren't there to use what they learn and retain what they learn. It's just too disjointed.

It's funny but here in Australia it's kind of the opposite of Europe. Among the working classes most people speak a language other than English because of their heritage and most of them tend to be older from the waves of migration we've had over the years. In my workplace we have Italian, Greek, Malaysian, Hungarian, Vietnamese, Lebanese, Indian, Afghani, Dutch, Brazilian, Indonesian and Chinese. Less than 10% of all the staff only speak English. It's in the more corporate/educated workplaces that most of the people only speak English because they never had a need to learn another language and either don't have time or aren't interested.

[Redhead74]

In my case I find it easy to learn. Don´t know why but I always had the ability to learn it without too much effort and it was my favourite subjet since I was a kid. I even chose to study English Philology at university although I abandoned in the last academic year. I know I make a lot of mistakes but I love learning more and more of this language and I try to read in English as much as I can and I try to watch a lot of films in their original language because that is the only way I have to practice and learn right now.

Interesting article on why women 'tend' to be better at learning languages than men.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationopinion/10567876/Are-women-really-better-at-learning-languages.html

I've always loved languages too. I learnt Dutch when I was 8 after spending 6 months in the Netherlands with family and when I returned to Australia before school I would spend 15 minutes every morning reading 'Ot en Sien' (a series of Dutch children's books) out loud with my mum to retain what I'd learnt, to keep learning more and improve my pronunciation. Great memories and it was also really useful for me later when I lived in Amsterdam and had to speak Dutch at work.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Redhead74

[Thin White Duke]

I totally agree with that. I almost added it to my post actually.
You can travel half the world speaking Spanish, including the US. And there are people who have studied French in many countries. So I guess it's sometimes the same reason why English people dont bother learning other languages, while people from countries with less spoken or less relevant languages tend to learn the most spoken ones. Especially English.

I don't think it has anything to do with bothering or not bothering. I think many people who only speak English would love to know another language but the fact is unless you're in a position to actually use the language and are immersed or exposed regularly to the language it's actually really difficult to make all the hours of learning amount to anything. Some people will do it as a hobby because they're just really into it but for most people the opportunities aren't there to use what they learn and retain what they learn. It's just too disjointed.

You're basiclaly agreeing with what Lio and I said. People who learn English in countries with less spoken languages have to learn them because it's useful for them. While the people from countries with more widely known languages don't have that need. They rarely will use or will be expose to languages spoken by 5 million people in just one specific country in the world.

And of course it's matter of bothering. I learnt English and Spanish without leaving my country neither having any kind of inmersion or exposure to it, except a few classes and real interest. There are many people everywhere who bothered to learn English without ever leaving their own countries and not having anyone around speaking it. I would love to speak Korean or I would love to fly an airplane. Yeah, I would love many things too, but it's a matter of bothering to really do those things. It won't appear suddenly from nothing.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Thin White Duke

[sturginho]

A friend of mine took a few university courses in France. The introduction meeting for foreign students was in French.

hmm and what language were you expecting it to be?

We both expected the introductory course to be in English.

But then what about students from Germany or Spain or Italy etc, they might not necessarily speak English?

[Lio]

A friend of mine took a few university courses in France. The introduction meeting for foreign students was in French.

hmm and what language were you expecting it to be?

We both expected the introductory course to be in English.

But then what about students from Germany or Spain or Italy etc, they might not necessarily speak English?

I think the most universal language in universities is English, especially when addressing an international audience. We even have university courses in English, even when it's not an international audience, just to prepare students for the corporate or academic world.

[Lithium]

As it is the lingua franca of the world, everyone should know English.

[sturginho]

A friend of mine took a few university courses in France. The introduction meeting for foreign students was in French.

hmm and what language were you expecting it to be?

We both expected the introductory course to be in English.

But then what about students from Germany or Spain or Italy etc, they might not necessarily speak English?

I think the most universal language in universities is English, especially when addressing an international audience. We even have university courses in English, even when it's not an international audience, just to prepare students for the corporate or academic world.

I am a bit confused by this. If I were going to France to take a course I would expect the course to be in French, because why should a student coming from Germany have to learn English to take a course in France?

[Lithium]

A friend of mine took a few university courses in France. The introduction meeting for foreign students was in French.

hmm and what language were you expecting it to be?

We both expected the introductory course to be in English.

But then what about students from Germany or Spain or Italy etc, they might not necessarily speak English?

I think the most universal language in universities is English, especially when addressing an international audience. We even have university courses in English, even when it's not an international audience, just to prepare students for the corporate or academic world.

I am a bit confused by this. If I were going to France to take a course I would expect the course to be in French, because why should a student coming from Germany have to learn English to take a course in France?

Because English is the most common lingua franca.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Chinese is the most spoken language in the world isnt it? Or Mandarin rather.

[DieselDaisy]

That does not mean it is a lingua franca. Far more people speak Mandarin as a first language: one list has, 848 million people as opposed to, 415 million native English speakers. English's strengh lies in its popularity as a secondary language. Far more people speak English as a secondary language than Mandarin.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Not saying it is, just going on a tangent, its to do with their population innit?

Edited June 20, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Redhead74]

A friend of mine took a few university courses in France. The introduction meeting for foreign students was in French.

hmm and what language were you expecting it to be?

We both expected the introductory course to be in English.

But then what about students from Germany or Spain or Italy etc, they might not necessarily speak English?

I think the most universal language in universities is English, especially when addressing an international audience. We even have university courses in English, even when it's not an international audience, just to prepare students for the corporate or academic world.

I am a bit confused by this. If I were going to France to take a course I would expect the course to be in French, because why should a student coming from Germany have to learn English to take a course in France?

Because English is the most common lingua franca.

Except to the French.

The French hate England, they hate the English and they refuse to speak English on their own territory.

French was the language of diplomacy in Europe from the 17th century, and as a result is still a working language of international institutions and is seen on documents ranging from passports to airmail letters. For many years, until the United Kingdom, Ireland, and Denmark joined in 1973, French and German were the only official working languages of the European Economic Community. French was also the lingua franca of European literature in the 18th century.

I suppose it pays to find out when enrolled in a course in a specific European country which language the curriculum will be instructed in.

[DieselDaisy]

I suppose in a way you could argue that mandarin is a lingua franca of China, considering there is a lot of different languages in China: some 30% of Chinese do not speakl Mandarin as a first language. Historically, Mandarin has operated as a lingua franca of the whole region because of the dominance of Chinese culture and trade.

[DR DOOM]

A friend of mine took a few university courses in France. The introduction meeting for foreign students was in French.

hmm and what language were you expecting it to be?

We both expected the introductory course to be in English.

But then what about students from Germany or Spain or Italy etc, they might not necessarily speak English?

I think the most universal language in universities is English, especially when addressing an international audience. We even have university courses in English, even when it's not an international audience, just to prepare students for the corporate or academic world.

I am a bit confused by this. If I were going to France to take a course I would expect the course to be in French, because why should a student coming from Germany have to learn English to take a course in France?

Because English is the most common lingua franca.

Except to the French.

The French hate England, they hate the English and they refuse to speak English on their own territory.

French was the language of diplomacy in Europe from the 17th century, and as a result is still a working language of international institutions and is seen on documents ranging from passports to airmail letters. For many years, until the United Kingdom, Ireland, and Denmark joined in 1973, French and German were the only official working languages of the European Economic Community. French was also the lingua franca of European literature in the 18th century.

I suppose it pays to find out when enrolled in a course in a specific European country which language the curriculum will be instructed in.

I have nothing to contribute, but this looked like a really good quotefuck and I just couldn't pass it up.

[Thin White Duke]

I suppose in a way you could argue that mandarin is a lingua franca of China, considering there is a lot of different languages in China: some 30% of Chinese do not speakl Mandarin as a first language. Historically, Mandarin has operated as a lingua franca of the whole region because of the dominance of Chinese culture and trade.

But do the French speak Mandarin too as their second language?

[DieselDaisy]

They are all black. Last time I visited Paris, every person was a 'homey', all backwards baseball caps and baggy pants. Here is me expecting a genuine stripey topped beret garlic chomping Frenchy and everyone who lives there is now a bro.

[Thin White Duke]

Innit?

[Iron MikeyJ]

English is one of my favorite things that America got from the "old country". The only thing that I personally like better that England gave America was the whole British invasion. The Beatles, The Stones, The Who all the way to Led Zeppelin. I will forever love England because they gave us those bands, but the language is good also.

BTW, where does Ebonics fit in this discusion????

[SoulMonster]

A friend of mine took a few university courses in France. The introduction meeting for foreign students was in French.

hmm and what language were you expecting it to be?

We both expected the introductory course to be in English.

But then what about students from Germany or Spain or Italy etc, they might not necessarily speak English?

The only logical option is to use the language that most people speaks or the language that is becoming default in academia and business: English.

A friend of mine took a few university courses in France. The introduction meeting for foreign students was in French.

hmm and what language were you expecting it to be?

We both expected the introductory course to be in English.

But then what about students from Germany or Spain or Italy etc, they might not necessarily speak English?

I think the most universal language in universities is English, especially when addressing an international audience. We even have university courses in English, even when it's not an international audience, just to prepare students for the corporate or academic world.

Yep. When I was lecturing at the university I did it in English. You can't be a scientist today and not understand English.

I am a bit confused by this. If I were going to France to take a course I would expect the course to be in French, because why should a student coming from Germany have to learn English to take a course in France?

Norwegians (well, at PhD level at least) mostly take courses at French universities because they have courses that can't be found at Norwegian universities (like specialist courses on state-of-the-art laboratory techniques). But sure, at undergrad level students may go there to learn French as well, but then you have to know the basics of the language in advance, else you'd be thrown in at the deep end. And when there is an introductory meeting for foreign students one would think it would be in the university's interest that everyone understand what was said, hence speak in a language most of the foreigners would actually understand.

[45miles]

BTW, where does Ebonics fit in this discusion????

I love to hear people speaking Ebonics--not gangsta rap, but just real people holding normal conversations. It's got a lilt and rhythm that's completely missing from standard American English. Of course, I think it's in everyone's best interest to learn to speak the standard language or languages of at least their own country reasonably well.

[Lithium]

[Snake-Pit]

When writing, I use ; and - a lot.

I find it makes for easier reading and reciting, almost like writing speeches for people - Using ; and - seem to help posting, for me. IDK

and if I can help it, I like to put speech on it's OWN separate line, and if anything were to bug me though

"it's all cool."

It would be people not doing that.

It's just something I was taught.

I same line stuff that's nicknames and general terms with ' rather than " quotation marks.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Snake-Pit

[Johnny Drama]

You fooking what?