236 Palestinians killed to 1 Israeli

[AxlisOld]

I agree we shouldn't be backing them, but Israel is there, defending itself, and it's winning. Sorry Palestine, move on.

The worlds fourth largest military is "defending itself" against one of its most deprived and densely populated territories by launching a full scale armed assault. For the third time in five years. This is not a defence operation. Do you honestly think Israelis cower in fear every time the air raid sirens go off? No. They sleep safely at night and joke about it in the morning. The idea that Israel is responding in such merciless, devastating fashion because they're being crippled by a hail or rockets is pure fantasy.

This current situation would be like if, after the IRA terrorist campaign in England in the 70's, the British Army retaliated by carpet bombing West Belfast.

That's the best analogy I've seen tbh.

Hmm, but not really though.

The IRA were not firing rockets from streets and civilian populated areas of Belfast during the attacks. That said, I understand the anology.

It's really interesting to me that when this issue comes up, people feel very strongly on either one side or another of the fence; its a rare that anyone takes the middle ground and see's it from opposing positions.

Still, carry on

The way I think of it is that a wealthy and well equipped country probably shouldn't be shelling kids on a beach.

The way I think of it, anyone without a death wish shouldn't be constantly lobbing rockets into a well equipped country and scoffing at cease fire offers.

[Georgy Zhukov]

It's those kids fault for being in the same spot where the shells landed. Couldn't they have moved like a couple hundred feet? Fucking retards.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Georgy Zhukov

[luciusfunk]

Isreal is the Wests stepping stone to the Middle East. The US won't allow Isreal to unload because it will start a huge conflict/war that would be extremely ugly for everyone. The state of Isreal should have never been created, the whole area there is nothing more then a ticking time bomb for a global war.

Except Israel existed before Palestine.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Isreal is the Wests stepping stone to the Middle East. The US won't allow Isreal to unload because it will start a huge conflict/war that would be extremely ugly for everyone. The state of Isreal should have never been created, the whole area there is nothing more then a ticking time bomb for a global war.

Except Israel existed before Palestine.

Israel as we know it today is not the Israel of ancient times. That kingdom died long ago. It existed only because the other powers at the time such as Egypt and Assyria were in decline. Palestine has existed before Israel, Israel is a state created in 1948 in what has been Palestine for quite sometime.

[luciusfunk]

Israel is Israel.

[Graeme]

Israel is Israel.

By that logic, all of the European, Asian and African settlers should fuck off out of North America and leave it to the actual Americans.

[luciusfunk]

[Graeme]

Well, I'm glad you're cool with losing the argument due to an untenable intellectual position.

[luciusfunk]

awesome

[magisme]

Israel's leaders are either incompetents or vengeful murderers - or both - because if they're not incompetent they know this won't "work," so the only explanation is that they simply want to kill or don't care about killing hundreds of Palestinians as revenge for the Palestinians' incompetent and entirely ineffective resistance.

Edited July 20, 2014 by magisme

[T.wa.T]

Alot of it is because in the late 1800's the rich Zionist Jews didn't have a standing army to take the land by force, so they used other methods to create economic, political, and social coups. Shady but effective.

[DR DOOM]

Well that clears that up then, now we know

I had a feeling "they" were responsible for "a lot of it" one way or another.

[Ace Nova]

Israel is Israel.

By that logic, all of the European, Asian and African settlers should fuck off out of North America and leave it to the actual Americans.

Israel's leaders are either incompetents or vengeful murderers - or both - because if they're not incompetent they know this won't "work," so the only explanation is that they simply want to kill or don't care about killing hundreds of Palestinians as revenge for the Palestinians' incompetent and entirely ineffective resistance.

Have any of you guys bothered to talk to anyone from the area? I've spoken to both Jews AND Arabs that actually live there and in the middle east and the one thing they all agree on is that Jews have ALWAYS lived in the area. Pre- Israel and Pre-Palestine.

And the U.S. has given land back to Native Americans....probably more land than all of Israel, actually. They're called reservations.

So if it makes you feel any better, just call Israel a Jewish Reservation.

And any Palestinian's blood is on the hands of Hamas. Blaming this specific conflict on Israel is the same as blaming any Sovereign nation for defending itself. It's not their fault Hamas are a bunch of idiots.. I mean, seriously, who would do something of the sort? Like I said earlier, it would be the same as if Cuba launched missiles at the U.S. What do they expect was going to happen?

Edited July 20, 2014 by Kasanova King

[bran]

Israel is Israel.

By that logic, all of the European, Asian and African settlers should fuck off out of North America and leave it to the actual Americans.

Israel's leaders are either incompetents or vengeful murderers - or both - because if they're not incompetent they know this won't "work," so the only explanation is that they simply want to kill or don't care about killing hundreds of Palestinians as revenge for the Palestinians' incompetent and entirely ineffective resistance.

Have any of you guys bothered to talk to anyone from the area? I've spoken to both Jews AND Arabs that actually live in there and in the middle east and the one thing they both agree on is that Jews have ALWAYS lived in the area. Pre- Israel and Pre-Palestine.

And the U.S. has given land back to Native Americans....probably more land than all of Israel, actually. They're called reservations.

So if it makes you feel any better, just call Israel a Jewish Reservation.

And any Palestinian's blood should be on the hands of Hamas. Blaming this specific conflict on Israel is the same as blaming any Sovereign nation for defending itself. It's not their fault Hamas are a bunch of idiots.. I mean, seriously, who would do something of the sort? Like I said earlier, it would be the same thing if Cuba started to launch missiles at the U.S. What do they expect was going to happen?

then turn down a cease fire when israel already agreed to stop, but the evil jews are the crazy ones.

[OmarBradley]

Isreal is the Wests stepping stone to the Middle East. The US won't allow Isreal to unload because it will start a huge conflict/war that would be extremely ugly for everyone. The state of Isreal should have never been created, the whole area there is nothing more then a ticking time bomb for a global war.

Except Israel existed before Palestine.

Israel as we know it today is not the Israel of ancient times. That kingdom died long ago. It existed only because the other powers at the time such as Egypt and Assyria were in decline. Palestine has existed before Israel, Israel is a state created in 1948 in what has been Palestine for quite sometime.

Well, I'm not sure if that's entirely accurate. Israel in a form existed when the Phoenicians were still a force to be reckoned with, the notion of Islam or Palestine was nowhere close to conception. The area of Israel which includes Jerusalem and part of the settlements today, actually maintained sovereignty longer than the ancient "Kingdom of Israel" did. This was the "Kingdom of Judah." The concept of a Jewish State in that area has existed far longer than any Palestinian or Muslim could claim for their own reasons for statehood. Not to say I disagree with them tbh....

Israel's leaders are either incompetents or vengeful murderers - or both - because if they're not incompetent they know this won't "work," so the only explanation is that they simply want to kill or don't care about killing hundreds of Palestinians as revenge for the Palestinians' incompetent and entirely ineffective resistance.

I'm not a Netanyahu fan. He's done good things to strengthen Israel's defense; but an offensive strategy (like the current and his many previous ones) are clearly ineffective. He was a specfor soldier himself, don't know why he doesn't utilize them more often. Rabin, who was assassinated in 1998 by a radical Jew, was making decent strides in the progress of the peace process. The more I've learned on the subject over the years (via Jewish scholars, university courses, the news, etc.), the more I've come to believe that a two state solution is optimal, and that Israel should return the lands it acquired in 1967. It is not uncommon at all for conquering powers to simply occupy conquered territory during the war, and then to return it after. The reason for this: it's hard to manage lands with people living there who've just had their families and homes destroyed by your military, it requires more resources from your home government which could be better spent domestically, and it rarely is of economic or diplomatic value to do so...... hm.... sound like the situation in Israel at all?

Now part of the problem, as has been stated in this thread, is Hamas's radical views towards Israeli statehood; I don't know how to fix that one, but killing 20 "terrorists" for every 100 Palestinian civilians is not the answer.

Alot of it is because in the late 1800's the rich Zionist Jews didn't have a standing army to take the land by force, so they used other methods to create economic, political, and social coups. Shady but effective.

Sources? Examples? Anything you can provide to make me believe you're not just an ignorant teenager sitting at your computer? And "a lot of" what? Are you saying the reason Israel is exercising aggressive force now is because Jews couldn't in the late 1800's? Standing army, for who? There was no State, how many non-state entities have standing armies? Jews petitioned Western governments for support for a Jewish place in the Middle-East (overgeneralization, I know), Jews were in Palestine in the 1800's and early 1900's, but it was not their state. What "economic, social, and political coups" did the Jews create that led to the creation of statehood?

http://www.theonion.com/articles/everyone-in-middle-east-given-own-country-in-31700,36484/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default

Edited July 21, 2014 by OmarBradley

[Georgy Zhukov]

Hamas is blamed for the deaths of Palestinians but Israel is to be blamed for the recruitment Hamas is getting thanks to the death of Palestinians.

They are the same people, like as someone said, one side happens to have more European (whiter) blood and the other and that side happens to be Jewish. Whoever the US backs, most of the world (and people on here will favor). They condemn Hamas for launching missiles wounding several Israelis and killing one or two. But when Israel fights back killing hundreds and a handful of "terrorists" they get behind Israel. That is really fucked up.

"Surrounded by enemies." News flash, the only people attacking Israel is Hamas. Sometimes Hezbollah. Everyone else is busy with their own problems.

[***Flawless]

The Israeli government is trying to exterminate the Palestinian people, for years they've been treated as sub-human with their rights being taken away and now they're being killed off. Although I do feel for the Israeli citizens who want no part of it, I am disgusted by the one's who sit on hills laughing and cheering as bombs hit Gaza.

The Palestinians had their land taken away, and to this day, the Israeli government (and yes, it's people) are trying to take all of it. The land given to Israel in Palestine was not given to them by the Palestinians and so it is not right that they are acting entitled. Even if it was, what they've done is disgusting.

To say that it once 'was' Israel is ridiculous, that was long ago enough that it has no relevance to the current situation. That land has been Palestine for centuries and that land belongs to them, what we have is genocide happening right in front of our eyes in this modern world and it's being endorsed because people are too frightened to stop Israel. If this continues, it will be a moment in history that future generations look at and say "we should have done something, how was that allowed to happen?".

[Jakey Styley]

Can someone provide, with credible sources, information regarding how Palestinians are treated on a day to day basis in Israel? I always hear two very different stories - one being that they're treated as second-class citizens, the other being that they are treated as fairly as anyone, but there's higher security measures in their areas (like airport style security at the supermarkets)

I just want to clarify that I want an answer that is independent of situations in which Israel is acting out, like right now. Just normal day to day shit is what I'm asking.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Jakey Styley

[***Flawless]

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/discrimination-against-palestinians-israel#.U8ztJlZl6yc

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/palestine-israel-west-bank-attacks#.U8ztslZl6yc

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/issues/Israel-and-Palestine

Those are a few.

[magisme]

Israel is Israel.

By that logic, all of the European, Asian and African settlers should fuck off out of North America and leave it to the actual Americans.

Israel's leaders are either incompetents or vengeful murderers - or both - because if they're not incompetent they know this won't "work," so the only explanation is that they simply want to kill or don't care about killing hundreds of Palestinians as revenge for the Palestinians' incompetent and entirely ineffective resistance.

Have any of you guys bothered to talk to anyone from the area? I've spoken to both Jews AND Arabs that actually live there and in the middle east and the one thing they all agree on is that Jews have ALWAYS lived in the area. Pre- Israel and Pre-Palestine.

And the U.S. has given land back to Native Americans....probably more land than all of Israel, actually. They're called reservations.

So if it makes you feel any better, just call Israel a Jewish Reservation.

And any Palestinian's blood is on the hands of Hamas. Blaming this specific conflict on Israel is the same as blaming any Sovereign nation for defending itself. It's not their fault Hamas are a bunch of idiots.. I mean, seriously, who would do something of the sort? Like I said earlier, it would be the same as if Cuba launched missiles at the U.S. What do they expect was going to happen?

Why did you quote me? Nothing you said addresses anything I said.

And please don't condescend to me about speaking to people from the region. Of course I have. And I have real knowledge of the conflict beyond the anecdotal too.

Can someone provide, with credible sources, information regarding how Palestinians are treated on a day to day basis in Israel? I always hear two very different stories - one being that they're treated as second-class citizens, the other being that they are treated as fairly as anyone, but there's higher security measures in their areas (like airport style security at the supermarkets)

I just want to clarify that I want an answer that is independent of situations in which Israel is acting out, like right now. Just normal day to day shit is what I'm asking.

Info isn't hard to find. And it doesn't come from extremist antisemites as some would have you believe. The way Palestinians are treated is a horror.

[Ace Nova]

Israel is Israel.

By that logic, all of the European, Asian and African settlers should fuck off out of North America and leave it to the actual Americans.

Israel's leaders are either incompetents or vengeful murderers - or both - because if they're not incompetent they know this won't "work," so the only explanation is that they simply want to kill or don't care about killing hundreds of Palestinians as revenge for the Palestinians' incompetent and entirely ineffective resistance.

Have any of you guys bothered to talk to anyone from the area? I've spoken to both Jews AND Arabs that actually live there and in the middle east and the one thing they all agree on is that Jews have ALWAYS lived in the area. Pre- Israel and Pre-Palestine.

And the U.S. has given land back to Native Americans....probably more land than all of Israel, actually. They're called reservations.

So if it makes you feel any better, just call Israel a Jewish Reservation.

And any Palestinian's blood is on the hands of Hamas. Blaming this specific conflict on Israel is the same as blaming any Sovereign nation for defending itself. It's not their fault Hamas are a bunch of idiots.. I mean, seriously, who would do something of the sort? Like I said earlier, it would be the same as if Cuba launched missiles at the U.S. What do they expect was going to happen?

Why did you quote me? Nothing you said addresses anything I said.

And please don't condescend to me about speaking to people from the region. Of course I have. And I have real knowledge of the conflict beyond the anecdotal too.

Can someone provide, with credible sources, information regarding how Palestinians are treated on a day to day basis in Israel? I always hear two very different stories - one being that they're treated as second-class citizens, the other being that they are treated as fairly as anyone, but there's higher security measures in their areas (like airport style security at the supermarkets)

I just want to clarify that I want an answer that is independent of situations in which Israel is acting out, like right now. Just normal day to day shit is what I'm asking.

Info isn't hard to find. And it doesn't come from extremist antisemites as some would have you believe. The way Palestinians are treated is a horror.

My statement was a generalization....most of it wasn't directed at you.

[Nobodys_Fault]

Have any of you guys bothered to talk to anyone from the area? I've spoken to both Jews AND Arabs that actually live in there and in the middle east and the one thing they both agree on is that Jews have ALWAYS lived in the area. Pre- Israel and Pre-Palestine.

And the U.S. has given land back to Native Americans....probably more land than all of Israel, actually. They're called reservations.

So if it makes you feel any better, just call Israel a Jewish Reservation.

And any Palestinian's blood should be on the hands of Hamas. Blaming this specific conflict on Israel is the same as blaming any Sovereign nation for defending itself. It's not their fault Hamas are a bunch of idiots.. I mean, seriously, who would do something of the sort? Like I said earlier, it would be the same thing if Cuba started to launch missiles at the U.S. What do they expect was going to happen?

then turn down a cease fire when israel already agreed to stop, but the evil jews are the crazy ones.

They turned down a ceasefire drafted entirely by Israel and its ally - Egyptian president Sisi. A ceasefire in which the supposed mediator excluded one party entirely from the process. Accepting the ceasefire proposed would mean acceping the illegal blockade that has reduced the sliver of land they are allowed to live on to poverty and hunger. That's not an option for Hamas - something Israel knows full well. It was merely an excuse to launch a ground invasion. If Hamas were not interested in a ceasefire at all then they would not have proposed their own 24 hours later.

It's fair to say Hamas aren't blameless in this conflict. But to try and absolve Israel entirely because of that is fucking ridiculous. And to blame the Palestinian people for "putting up with Hamas", or whatever way you want to phrase it is equally so.

and Palestinian people probably should understand that when they welcome terrorists to put anti-aircraft missile in their residential quarters, it might be dangerous for their health

The Gaza strip is one of the most densely populated areas on Earth. The entire thing is residential quarters. Secondly - maybe they aren't quick to embrace a return to the status quo because that means a return to confinement within a blockade that excludes any access to the outside world and controls the border, coastal waters, resources, airspace and power supply... additionally the people holding the keys seem perfectly fine with killing 500 of your neighbours in a week.

[T.wa.T]

Isreal is the Wests stepping stone to the Middle East. The US won't allow Isreal to unload because it will start a huge conflict/war that would be extremely ugly for everyone. The state of Isreal should have never been created, the whole area there is nothing more then a ticking time bomb for a global war.

Except Israel existed before Palestine.

Israel as we know it today is not the Israel of ancient times. That kingdom died long ago. It existed only because the other powers at the time such as Egypt and Assyria were in decline. Palestine has existed before Israel, Israel is a state created in 1948 in what has been Palestine for quite sometime.

Well, I'm not sure if that's entirely accurate. Israel in a form existed when the Phoenicians were still a force to be reckoned with, the notion of Islam or Palestine was nowhere close to conception. The area of Israel which includes Jerusalem and part of the settlements today, actually maintained sovereignty longer than the ancient "Kingdom of Israel" did. This was the "Kingdom of Judah." The concept of a Jewish State in that area has existed far longer than any Palestinian or Muslim could claim for their own reasons for statehood. Not to say I disagree with them tbh....

Israel's leaders are either incompetents or vengeful murderers - or both - because if they're not incompetent they know this won't "work," so the only explanation is that they simply want to kill or don't care about killing hundreds of Palestinians as revenge for the Palestinians' incompetent and entirely ineffective resistance.

I'm not a Netanyahu fan. He's done good things to strengthen Israel's defense; but an offensive strategy (like the current and his many previous ones) are clearly ineffective. He was a specfor soldier himself, don't know why he doesn't utilize them more often. Rabin, who was assassinated in 1998 by a radical Jew, was making decent strides in the progress of the peace process. The more I've learned on the subject over the years (via Jewish scholars, university courses, the news, etc.), the more I've come to believe that a two state solution is optimal, and that Israel should return the lands it acquired in 1967. It is not uncommon at all for conquering powers to simply occupy conquered territory during the war, and then to return it after. The reason for this: it's hard to manage lands with people living there who've just had their families and homes destroyed by your military, it requires more resources from your home government which could be better spent domestically, and it rarely is of economic or diplomatic value to do so...... hm.... sound like the situation in Israel at all?

Now part of the problem, as has been stated in this thread, is Hamas's radical views towards Israeli statehood; I don't know how to fix that one, but killing 20 "terrorists" for every 100 Palestinian civilians is not the answer.

Alot of it is because in the late 1800's the rich Zionist Jews didn't have a standing army to take the land by force, so they used other methods to create economic, political, and social coups. Shady but effective.

Sources? Examples? Anything you can provide to make me believe you're not just an ignorant teenager sitting at your computer? And "a lot of" what? Are you saying the reason Israel is exercising aggressive force now is because Jews couldn't in the late 1800's? Standing army, for who? There was no State, how many non-state entities have standing armies? Jews petitioned Western governments for support for a Jewish place in the Middle-East (overgeneralization, I know), Jews were in Palestine in the 1800's and early 1900's, but it was not their state. What "economic, social, and political coups" did the Jews create that led to the creation of statehood?

http://www.theonion.com/articles/everyone-in-middle-east-given-own-country-in-31700,36484/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default

The Zionist Jews did not have a standing army in the late 1800's to fight or use force against the indigenous people occupying the land. So rich Zionist families began to finance land purchases. Once major portions of land were bought they're was a mass immigration of jews from Europe back to Israel. Over time, the jews were able to use political and economic force to remove the muslims/arabs who were occupying that land. It can be looked at as a type of political or social-economic coup. Because the jews had now begun to out number the arabs on those lands.

I always thought this was common knowledge, no reason for the name calling.

[Ace Nova]

The Zionist Jews did not have a standing army in the late 1800's to fight or use force against the indigenous people occupying the land. So rich Zionist families began to finance land purchases. Once major portions of land were bought they're was a mass immigration of jews from Europe back to Israel. Over time, the jews were able to use political and economic force to remove the muslims/arabs who were occupying that land. It can be looked at as a type of political or social-economic coup. Because the jews had now begun to out number the arabs on those lands.

I always thought this was common knowledge, no reason for the name calling.

If everything you are saying is correct (most of it really isn't...and it stems from racist propaganda)....how is any of it out of the ordinary?

Is it not the natural selection of sorts? Evolution, maybe?

It's been mankind's way for thousands of years.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Kasanova King

[netcat]

as far as i get it, civilians are being warned by Tsahal before the missile strikes. but Hamas don't let them out, which is not surprising as they are their human shields. while Hamas leadres are sitting in underground bunkers and hardly imagine the scope of destruction