Last Forum Standing

[Padme]

I still don't see the need to scorn the guy simply because he's been living the dream of any hardcore GNR fan would kill for.

I am beyond tired of hearing this. Not everyone would trade in his/her dignity and whore themselves out like a prostitute just to be able to say they hung out with "nu" GNR. Actually, I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of people around here would be suicidal if they woke up in Jarmo's shoes.

There is nothing to be praised imo. Selling ones self out to be a hanger on? Didn't Axl once say in a song something to the effect of "Vicarious existence is a fuckin' waste of time"?

What the fuck are you talking about? Whoring himself out? It's a internet online forum. It's not like the forum is his day-job or that it pays his bills. I'm not going to share personal information about what the guy does as a day job but he has his own life outside of GNR. It's not like he owes anyone anything? I honestly don't understand why people care so much.

Dignity. You've got kidding me. Do you really think the band and/or management went to Jarmo and told him he'd get all these perks if he'd shut down all criticism on his site? Like I said, this cynical attitude isn't based on reality. The guy is a fan. I remember his posts on the old Dust N' Bones mailing list in the mid 90's. The guy never had a bad thing to say about Axl. Ever. It's who he was then and it's who he is today. Again, my feeling for why his tolerance for personal snipes or criticisms of Axl and the band waned over the years is more to do with his relationship with the band and Axl and has nothing to do with the perks he gets out of it. If I grew personally attached to someone over a period of time I'd likely feel less inclined to hear constant criticisms of them as well. Does that make Jarmo objective in many of his assessments? In my opinion, absolutely not. Which, again, is why I stopped posting at HTGTH. Does that make him a whore? Fucking no.

Like I said, taking issue with how he runs his forum is one thing; calling the guy a whore who has no dignity is absurd and repugnant.

There is a difference in being a fan and being a fanBOY. One respects the artist. The other is borderline insane. You can't DO the things he's done and say the things he's said and not be deluded. Slash, Duff, Matt, Izzy and Steven ALL knew and was closer to Axl than Jarmo ever will be and yet, I don't see any of them approaching his level of delusion where Axl walks on water and anyone who disagrees... must pay.

Jarmo was nothing more than a nonviolent, slightly less insane James Hinkley. He was an obsessive fan to the point where he was willing to be, say and DO anything to get Axl's attention. It worked, but who's impressed? I'm not impressed. Not many people are. Most just shake their heads.

At one point, all of us loved the original band. That's why we're here. All of us, at one point, would have loved to have a chat with anyone in the band. But let me make this clear. Not many of us would have gone to the level of obsessive creepiness that Jarmo did back in the day to achieve it. Why? Because it's not within the confines of the normal human psyche.

You can disagree with me but, the way he behaved over the years... something isn't right in that guys head.

I'm disagreeing with you because you're ascribing a motivation that is misplaced. Like I said, I've had interactions with the guy going back almost twenty years. Even before he had a website when it was just a bunch of us GNR nerds discussing things through a mailing list Jarmo was always an Axl defender. It's who he always was. You're trying to make it sound as though he changed because GNR now takes him on the road. And what I'm trying to convey is that this attitude is wrong and is uttered by people who didn't know him way back. It's a fallacy to believe that Jarmo had some sort of master plan with his forum. Honestly, he's just a devoted Axl/GNR fan who got lucky.

And you're also missing my point about why Jarmo has little concern for criticisms of Axl. It isn't because he's a fanboy (he was a fanboy well before he even had a forum), it's because he's friends with GNR and management. If you saw your friends getting savaged on a discussion forum you controlled, my bet is you might act somewhat similarly. Again, i don't know you, maybe you would be fine with watching your friends get torn apart day in and day out, but that isn't Jarmo. The guy is passionate about a band who happens to be friends with. That's all there is to it. You're making way more out of it than there really needs to be.

And let's call a spade a spade - if you're still posting on a GNR fan forum this far out from a new GNR album, you're a little GNR obsessed as well. Sure, some are little more obsessed than others, but let's not get all high and mighty as if the rest of us have a completely normal interest in the band.

Jarmo can run his forum the way he wants. But I do belive that the guy crosses the line too often in order to go on tour with this new band. The guy has flip flop for his own personal benefit. The fans on his forum never got the chance to go on tour nor exclusive chats or information. That´s why it´s a ghost town. And he doesn´t care! There is never nothing especial about that forum despite the close relationship Jarmo enjoys with the band. On top of that if someone dares to express a negative opinion about Axl, management or band members that person is at risk of being banned

We got the news of the S.A. tour here before him. What the fans at his forum got? in fact when the rumor about Duff was brought up Jarmo deleted a thread where people were just debating about it. He then decided to put another thread when it was official. That´s just ridiculous to say the least.

[HubbaBubba]

Downzy I like a ton of your posts, but that last one says more about you than Axl or jarmo.

The fact that they were cool with you one night years ago doesn't change how they've played things with the wider fanbase. Did you like cd more after chatting with Axl? Of course not - it doesn't follow.

The long-time gnr hardcore is rife with ill-considered superiority complexes. People claim authority for no logical reason. MSL is the master of it, and regularly looks like an idiot as a consequence.

But seeing as we're comparing dicks, I've done the red solo cup thing too. People were cool, the fans were like rabbits in the road, and I didn't speak to or see Jarmo. But even if he poured me a drink and talked about my team, he'd still be a bitch, and Axl would still need to release music.

The point is, jarmo's admirable dedication went rotten. His commitment in the dark years does not validate in any way what happened later. Nor does a nice chat with him.

But why does Jarmo need validation? And who from, you? Why does he care what you or anyone else think? This is what I fail to understand. Jarmo runs an online GNR discussion forum that tries to be supportive of Axl and present day GNR. Sure, he's advocacy for the band can border on militancy, but that's his call. And ultimately, people can decide whether they want to join in the conversations Jarmo wants to have at his site or they can find other places that appeals more to them. I still don't see the need to scorn the guy simply because he's been living the dream of any hardcore GNR fan would kill for.

What I don't get is the attitude you're expressing in this post. We all want Axl to release new music, but why do people take it so personally when he doesn't deliver? Criticize him as an artist, but I don't understand to vilify the guy as a person because he's failed your expectations. I, like everyone else, get disappointed when we're six years out and the follow up to CD doesn't seem imminent, but I'm not going to take personal shots at Axl for it (not saying you are Hubba, but let's agree that it does happen a lot around here). Jarmo chooses to purge such comments at his forum; we do not (for the most part - there's limits). The reason we allow for a more open forum of exchange is because we feel it's important for fans to have a place to vent. Ultimately, most wouldn't be posting here if they weren't fans in some shape or form. I am confident that the minute Axl starts performing a different lineup of songs or releases new music some of his most ardent critics will be the first to attend a show or buy the record. That is where HTGTH and MYGNRFORUM differ in philosophies. We don't view every person who has a criticism of the band or the artist as a hater. I think that's a fair criticism of Jarmo and his site, but many of the personal slights that are thrown at him are often way off base and uncalled for. To me, calling Jarmo a "bitch" is nonsense.

Wrong. YOU are saying Jarmo's commitment to guns validates his approach to his board.

If I had friends I really cared about, I would not run a message board that invited the public to comment on them and their art, knowing most of those comments would be negative. Why would I create a platform for strangers to insult them, and then censor it? I'd just shut it down and enjoy their company.

The truth is, jarmo wants it both ways. He spent years building his site, and it's his core justification for the position he's now in. But these days, thanks to his behaviour, he has a stake in about 0.001% of the remaining hardcore guns fanbase. Have Axl and Del realised? Of course, but they'll never publicly acknowledge the situation. There's too much face to lose. They'll just slowly cut him out.

You're right about calling him a bitch tho, that's not constructive.

[DieselDaisy]

Downzy I like a ton of your posts, but that last one says more about you than Axl or jarmo.

The fact that they were cool with you one night years ago doesn't change how they've played things with the wider fanbase. Did you like cd more after chatting with Axl? Of course not - it doesn't follow.

The long-time gnr hardcore is rife with ill-considered superiority complexes. People claim authority for no logical reason. MSL is the master of it, and regularly looks like an idiot as a consequence.

But seeing as we're comparing dicks, I've done the red solo cup thing too. People were cool, the fans were like rabbits in the road, and I didn't speak to or see Jarmo. But even if he poured me a drink and talked about my team, he'd still be a bitch, and Axl would still need to release music.

The point is, jarmo's admirable dedication went rotten. His commitment in the dark years does not validate in any way what happened later. Nor does a nice chat with him.

But why does Jarmo need validation? And who from, you? Why does he care what you or anyone else think? This is what I fail to understand. Jarmo runs an online GNR discussion forum that tries to be supportive of Axl and present day GNR. Sure, he's advocacy for the band can border on militancy, but that's his call. And ultimately, people can decide whether they want to join in the conversations Jarmo wants to have at his site or they can find other places that appeals more to them. I still don't see the need to scorn the guy simply because he's been living the dream of any hardcore GNR fan would kill for.

What I don't get is the attitude you're expressing in this post. We all want Axl to release new music, but why do people take it so personally when he doesn't deliver? Criticize him as an artist, but I don't understand to vilify the guy as a person because he's failed your expectations. I, like everyone else, get disappointed when we're six years out and the follow up to CD doesn't seem imminent, but I'm not going to take personal shots at Axl for it (not saying you are Hubba, but let's agree that it does happen a lot around here). Jarmo chooses to purge such comments at his forum; we do not (for the most part - there's limits). The reason we allow for a more open forum of exchange is because we feel it's important for fans to have a place to vent. Ultimately, most wouldn't be posting here if they weren't fans in some shape or form. I am confident that the minute Axl starts performing a different lineup of songs or releases new music some of his most ardent critics will be the first to attend a show or buy the record. That is where HTGTH and MYGNRFORUM differ in philosophies. We don't view every person who has a criticism of the band or the artist as a hater. I think that's a fair criticism of Jarmo and his site, but many of the personal slights that are thrown at him are often way off base and uncalled for. To me, calling Jarmo a "bitch" is nonsense.

Wrong. YOU are saying Jarmo's commitment to guns validates his approach to his board.

If I had friends I really cared about, I would not run a message board that invited the public to comment on them and their art, knowing most of those comments would be negative. Why would I create a platform for strangers to insult them, and then censor it? I'd just shut it down and enjoy their company.

The truth is, jarmo wants it both ways. He spent years building his site, and it's his core justification for the position he's now in. But these days, thanks to his behaviour, he has a stake in about 0.001% of the remaining hardcore guns fanbase. Have Axl and Del realised? Of course, but they'll never publicly acknowledge the situation. There's too much face to lose. They'll just slowly cut him out.

You're right about calling him a bitch tho, that's not constructive.

I think there is a more worrying point in regards to, what does this say about the band? The type of fan GN'R prefers is a jarmo brown noser. The rest of us are, complaints complaints complaints. GN'R can literally, not handle, criticism.

[HubbaBubba]

Daisy, it helps to keep reminding ppl, but that's been the situation for literally years!

[Strange Broue]

Downzy I like a ton of your posts, but that last one says more about you than Axl or jarmo.

The fact that they were cool with you one night years ago doesn't change how they've played things with the wider fanbase. Did you like cd more after chatting with Axl? Of course not - it doesn't follow.

The long-time gnr hardcore is rife with ill-considered superiority complexes. People claim authority for no logical reason. MSL is the master of it, and regularly looks like an idiot as a consequence.

But seeing as we're comparing dicks, I've done the red solo cup thing too. People were cool, the fans were like rabbits in the road, and I didn't speak to or see Jarmo. But even if he poured me a drink and talked about my team, he'd still be a bitch, and Axl would still need to release music.

The point is, jarmo's admirable dedication went rotten. His commitment in the dark years does not validate in any way what happened later. Nor does a nice chat with him.

But why does Jarmo need validation? And who from, you? Why does he care what you or anyone else think? This is what I fail to understand. Jarmo runs an online GNR discussion forum that tries to be supportive of Axl and present day GNR. Sure, he's advocacy for the band can border on militancy, but that's his call. And ultimately, people can decide whether they want to join in the conversations Jarmo wants to have at his site or they can find other places that appeals more to them. I still don't see the need to scorn the guy simply because he's been living the dream of any hardcore GNR fan would kill for.

What I don't get is the attitude you're expressing in this post. We all want Axl to release new music, but why do people take it so personally when he doesn't deliver? Criticize him as an artist, but I don't understand to vilify the guy as a person because he's failed your expectations. I, like everyone else, get disappointed when we're six years out and the follow up to CD doesn't seem imminent, but I'm not going to take personal shots at Axl for it (not saying you are Hubba, but let's agree that it does happen a lot around here). Jarmo chooses to purge such comments at his forum; we do not (for the most part - there's limits). The reason we allow for a more open forum of exchange is because we feel it's important for fans to have a place to vent. Ultimately, most wouldn't be posting here if they weren't fans in some shape or form. I am confident that the minute Axl starts performing a different lineup of songs or releases new music some of his most ardent critics will be the first to attend a show or buy the record. That is where HTGTH and MYGNRFORUM differ in philosophies. We don't view every person who has a criticism of the band or the artist as a hater. I think that's a fair criticism of Jarmo and his site, but many of the personal slights that are thrown at him are often way off base and uncalled for. To me, calling Jarmo a "bitch" is nonsense.

Wrong. YOU are saying Jarmo's commitment to guns validates his approach to his board.

If I had friends I really cared about, I would not run a message board that invited the public to comment on them and their art, knowing most of those comments would be negative. Why would I create a platform for strangers to insult them, and then censor it? I'd just shut it down and enjoy their company.

The truth is, jarmo wants it both ways. He spent years building his site, and it's his core justification for the position he's now in. But these days, thanks to his behaviour, he has a stake in about 0.001% of the remaining hardcore guns fanbase. Have Axl and Del realised? Of course, but they'll never publicly acknowledge the situation. There's too much face to lose. They'll just slowly cut him out.

You're right about calling him a bitch tho, that's not constructive.

I think there is a more worrying point in regards to, what does this say about the band? The type of fan GN'R prefers is a jarmo brown noser. The rest of us are, complaints complaints complaints. GN'R can literally, not handle, criticism.

"GNR", jarmo, Team Brazil can literally eat a bag of dicks

There's no need to call jarmo a bitch, but there's no need to defend him. He dig his own grave/fortune

I think most of us don't want to be Axl's puppy and i hope most us enjoy their own life rather than being a leech

I REALLY hope downzy wasn't defending jarmo because he became an admin now...

(maybe i risk a ban now, but who cares)

[Damn_Smooth]

You would last, 0.3 seconds, at Jarmo's crib.

No way. Jarmo and I would be forum besties.

[DieselDaisy]

You would last, 0.3 seconds, at Jarmo's crib.

No way. Jarmo and I would be forum besties.

Well you have your Slash loathing in common. Worse relationships have been formed on such a small pretense. Perhaps there could be a homoerotic coupling there?

[WFA]

i don't like jarmo because he and team brazil reported the cartoon channel on youtube and got the videos taken down here today gone to tool was so funny.

luckily some of the videos are back on the net

[Damn_Smooth]

You would last, 0.3 seconds, at Jarmo's crib.

No way. Jarmo and I would be forum besties.

Well you have your Slash loathing in common. Worse relationships have been formed on such a small pretense. Perhaps there could be a homoerotic coupling there?

Only if it turns you on.

[magisme]

Jaemo's job is to propagandize. Simple as that.

[RNRS]

That cartoon is ridiculously funny.

[downzy]

I still don't see the need to scorn the guy simply because he's been living the dream of any hardcore GNR fan would kill for.

I am beyond tired of hearing this. Not everyone would trade in his/her dignity and whore themselves out like a prostitute just to be able to say they hung out with "nu" GNR. Actually, I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of people around here would be suicidal if they woke up in Jarmo's shoes.

There is nothing to be praised imo. Selling ones self out to be a hanger on? Didn't Axl once say in a song something to the effect of "Vicarious existence is a fuckin' waste of time"?

What the fuck are you talking about? Whoring himself out? It's a internet online forum. It's not like the forum is his day-job or that it pays his bills. I'm not going to share personal information about what the guy does as a day job but he has his own life outside of GNR. It's not like he owes anyone anything? I honestly don't understand why people care so much.

Dignity. You've got kidding me. Do you really think the band and/or management went to Jarmo and told him he'd get all these perks if he'd shut down all criticism on his site? Like I said, this cynical attitude isn't based on reality. The guy is a fan. I remember his posts on the old Dust N' Bones mailing list in the mid 90's. The guy never had a bad thing to say about Axl. Ever. It's who he was then and it's who he is today. Again, my feeling for why his tolerance for personal snipes or criticisms of Axl and the band waned over the years is more to do with his relationship with the band and Axl and has nothing to do with the perks he gets out of it. If I grew personally attached to someone over a period of time I'd likely feel less inclined to hear constant criticisms of them as well. Does that make Jarmo objective in many of his assessments? In my opinion, absolutely not. Which, again, is why I stopped posting at HTGTH. Does that make him a whore? Fucking no.

Like I said, taking issue with how he runs his forum is one thing; calling the guy a whore who has no dignity is absurd and repugnant.

There is a difference in being a fan and being a fanBOY. One respects the artist. The other is borderline insane. You can't DO the things he's done and say the things he's said and not be deluded. Slash, Duff, Matt, Izzy and Steven ALL knew and was closer to Axl than Jarmo ever will be and yet, I don't see any of them approaching his level of delusion where Axl walks on water and anyone who disagrees... must pay.

Jarmo was nothing more than a nonviolent, slightly less insane James Hinkley. He was an obsessive fan to the point where he was willing to be, say and DO anything to get Axl's attention. It worked, but who's impressed? I'm not impressed. Not many people are. Most just shake their heads.

At one point, all of us loved the original band. That's why we're here. All of us, at one point, would have loved to have a chat with anyone in the band. But let me make this clear. Not many of us would have gone to the level of obsessive creepiness that Jarmo did back in the day to achieve it. Why? Because it's not within the confines of the normal human psyche.

You can disagree with me but, the way he behaved over the years... something isn't right in that guys head.

I'm disagreeing with you because you're ascribing a motivation that is misplaced. Like I said, I've had interactions with the guy going back almost twenty years. Even before he had a website when it was just a bunch of us GNR nerds discussing things through a mailing list Jarmo was always an Axl defender. It's who he always was. You're trying to make it sound as though he changed because GNR now takes him on the road. And what I'm trying to convey is that this attitude is wrong and is uttered by people who didn't know him way back. It's a fallacy to believe that Jarmo had some sort of master plan with his forum. Honestly, he's just a devoted Axl/GNR fan who got lucky.

And you're also missing my point about why Jarmo has little concern for criticisms of Axl. It isn't because he's a fanboy (he was a fanboy well before he even had a forum), it's because he's friends with GNR and management. If you saw your friends getting savaged on a discussion forum you controlled, my bet is you might act somewhat similarly. Again, i don't know you, maybe you would be fine with watching your friends get torn apart day in and day out, but that isn't Jarmo. The guy is passionate about a band who happens to be friends with. That's all there is to it. You're making way more out of it than there really needs to be.

And let's call a spade a spade - if you're still posting on a GNR fan forum this far out from a new GNR album, you're a little GNR obsessed as well. Sure, some are little more obsessed than others, but let's not get all high and mighty as if the rest of us have a completely normal interest in the band.

I simply do not agree, downzy.

Consider this. Maybe the reason people have a problem with jarmo is they all have had some sort of problem with him. That forum used to be active at one stage. Where are all those posters? They all left, with a grievance. It is actually not nice to have innocent posts deleted just because they might have a slight repercussion on Axl; it is not, how can I put it, gentleman like conduct. You write a post, come back the next day and zap: it is vanished. You are inherently going to walk away from such an experience believing Jarmo is the biggest arse bandit in the western hemisphere.

I don't disagree with you about how Jarmo moderates his forum. My only issue is the motivations people are ascribing to Jarmo for why he moderates HTGTH the way he does.

[downzy]

Downzy I like a ton of your posts, but that last one says more about you than Axl or jarmo.

The fact that they were cool with you one night years ago doesn't change how they've played things with the wider fanbase. Did you like cd more after chatting with Axl? Of course not - it doesn't follow.

The long-time gnr hardcore is rife with ill-considered superiority complexes. People claim authority for no logical reason. MSL is the master of it, and regularly looks like an idiot as a consequence.

But seeing as we're comparing dicks, I've done the red solo cup thing too. People were cool, the fans were like rabbits in the road, and I didn't speak to or see Jarmo. But even if he poured me a drink and talked about my team, he'd still be a bitch, and Axl would still need to release music.

The point is, jarmo's admirable dedication went rotten. His commitment in the dark years does not validate in any way what happened later. Nor does a nice chat with him.

But why does Jarmo need validation? And who from, you? Why does he care what you or anyone else think? This is what I fail to understand. Jarmo runs an online GNR discussion forum that tries to be supportive of Axl and present day GNR. Sure, he's advocacy for the band can border on militancy, but that's his call. And ultimately, people can decide whether they want to join in the conversations Jarmo wants to have at his site or they can find other places that appeals more to them. I still don't see the need to scorn the guy simply because he's been living the dream of any hardcore GNR fan would kill for.

What I don't get is the attitude you're expressing in this post. We all want Axl to release new music, but why do people take it so personally when he doesn't deliver? Criticize him as an artist, but I don't understand to vilify the guy as a person because he's failed your expectations. I, like everyone else, get disappointed when we're six years out and the follow up to CD doesn't seem imminent, but I'm not going to take personal shots at Axl for it (not saying you are Hubba, but let's agree that it does happen a lot around here). Jarmo chooses to purge such comments at his forum; we do not (for the most part - there's limits). The reason we allow for a more open forum of exchange is because we feel it's important for fans to have a place to vent. Ultimately, most wouldn't be posting here if they weren't fans in some shape or form. I am confident that the minute Axl starts performing a different lineup of songs or releases new music some of his most ardent critics will be the first to attend a show or buy the record. That is where HTGTH and MYGNRFORUM differ in philosophies. We don't view every person who has a criticism of the band or the artist as a hater. I think that's a fair criticism of Jarmo and his site, but many of the personal slights that are thrown at him are often way off base and uncalled for. To me, calling Jarmo a "bitch" is nonsense.

Wrong. YOU are saying Jarmo's commitment to guns validates his approach to his board.

If I had friends I really cared about, I would not run a message board that invited the public to comment on them and their art, knowing most of those comments would be negative. Why would I create a platform for strangers to insult them, and then censor it? I'd just shut it down and enjoy their company.

The truth is, jarmo wants it both ways. He spent years building his site, and it's his core justification for the position he's now in. But these days, thanks to his behaviour, he has a stake in about 0.001% of the remaining hardcore guns fanbase. Have Axl and Del realised? Of course, but they'll never publicly acknowledge the situation. There's too much face to lose. They'll just slowly cut him out.

You're right about calling him a bitch tho, that's not constructive.

Again, I don't think Jarmo created the forum as a means to be come close the band. Remember, Jarmo started the website well before any of us ever knew whether Axl would ever be seen in public. It was a fan site. The thing is, once GNR invited him in to their world, he became ingratiated out of a sense of loyalty and friendship, not just because of the perks.

I'm not disagreeing with people who find the manner in which he moderates unappealing. Look, I get it, nobody likes having posts deleted by an admin/mod because they do not agree with them. And it just zaps all the fun and enthusiasm when you can't even point out the most obvious criticisms about the band. Trust me, I get it.

What I disagree with is the cynical perspective that Jarmo sold his soul to be a hanger on. In my opinion, it just didn't happen that way.

Downzy I like a ton of your posts, but that last one says more about you than Axl or jarmo.

The fact that they were cool with you one night years ago doesn't change how they've played things with the wider fanbase. Did you like cd more after chatting with Axl? Of course not - it doesn't follow.

The long-time gnr hardcore is rife with ill-considered superiority complexes. People claim authority for no logical reason. MSL is the master of it, and regularly looks like an idiot as a consequence.

But seeing as we're comparing dicks, I've done the red solo cup thing too. People were cool, the fans were like rabbits in the road, and I didn't speak to or see Jarmo. But even if he poured me a drink and talked about my team, he'd still be a bitch, and Axl would still need to release music.

The point is, jarmo's admirable dedication went rotten. His commitment in the dark years does not validate in any way what happened later. Nor does a nice chat with him.

But why does Jarmo need validation? And who from, you? Why does he care what you or anyone else think? This is what I fail to understand. Jarmo runs an online GNR discussion forum that tries to be supportive of Axl and present day GNR. Sure, he's advocacy for the band can border on militancy, but that's his call. And ultimately, people can decide whether they want to join in the conversations Jarmo wants to have at his site or they can find other places that appeals more to them. I still don't see the need to scorn the guy simply because he's been living the dream of any hardcore GNR fan would kill for.

What I don't get is the attitude you're expressing in this post. We all want Axl to release new music, but why do people take it so personally when he doesn't deliver? Criticize him as an artist, but I don't understand to vilify the guy as a person because he's failed your expectations. I, like everyone else, get disappointed when we're six years out and the follow up to CD doesn't seem imminent, but I'm not going to take personal shots at Axl for it (not saying you are Hubba, but let's agree that it does happen a lot around here). Jarmo chooses to purge such comments at his forum; we do not (for the most part - there's limits). The reason we allow for a more open forum of exchange is because we feel it's important for fans to have a place to vent. Ultimately, most wouldn't be posting here if they weren't fans in some shape or form. I am confident that the minute Axl starts performing a different lineup of songs or releases new music some of his most ardent critics will be the first to attend a show or buy the record. That is where HTGTH and MYGNRFORUM differ in philosophies. We don't view every person who has a criticism of the band or the artist as a hater. I think that's a fair criticism of Jarmo and his site, but many of the personal slights that are thrown at him are often way off base and uncalled for. To me, calling Jarmo a "bitch" is nonsense.

Wrong. YOU are saying Jarmo's commitment to guns validates his approach to his board.

If I had friends I really cared about, I would not run a message board that invited the public to comment on them and their art, knowing most of those comments would be negative. Why would I create a platform for strangers to insult them, and then censor it? I'd just shut it down and enjoy their company.

The truth is, jarmo wants it both ways. He spent years building his site, and it's his core justification for the position he's now in. But these days, thanks to his behaviour, he has a stake in about 0.001% of the remaining hardcore guns fanbase. Have Axl and Del realised? Of course, but they'll never publicly acknowledge the situation. There's too much face to lose. They'll just slowly cut him out.

You're right about calling him a bitch tho, that's not constructive.

I think there is a more worrying point in regards to, what does this say about the band? The type of fan GN'R prefers is a jarmo brown noser. The rest of us are, complaints complaints complaints. GN'R can literally, not handle, criticism.

"GNR", jarmo, Team Brazil can literally eat a bag of dicks

There's no need to call jarmo a bitch, but there's no need to defend him. He dig his own grave/fortune

I think most of us don't want to be Axl's puppy and i hope most us enjoy their own life rather than being a leech

I REALLY hope downzy wasn't defending jarmo because he became an admin now...

(maybe i risk a ban now, but who cares)

I've both defended Jarmo as a person for years but also I've criticized his moderating style for just as long. I've made these arguments long before I ever became a Mod (and later an admin).

Nobody is arguing that precipitous drop in activity over at HTGTH isn't the result of Jarmo's moderation style. But I think most people aren't aware of who Jarmo was from the get-go.

[Padme]

I still don't see the need to scorn the guy simply because he's been living the dream of any hardcore GNR fan would kill for.

I am beyond tired of hearing this. Not everyone would trade in his/her dignity and whore themselves out like a prostitute just to be able to say they hung out with "nu" GNR. Actually, I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of people around here would be suicidal if they woke up in Jarmo's shoes.

There is nothing to be praised imo. Selling ones self out to be a hanger on? Didn't Axl once say in a song something to the effect of "Vicarious existence is a fuckin' waste of time"?

What the fuck are you talking about? Whoring himself out? It's a internet online forum. It's not like the forum is his day-job or that it pays his bills. I'm not going to share personal information about what the guy does as a day job but he has his own life outside of GNR. It's not like he owes anyone anything? I honestly don't understand why people care so much.

Dignity. You've got kidding me. Do you really think the band and/or management went to Jarmo and told him he'd get all these perks if he'd shut down all criticism on his site? Like I said, this cynical attitude isn't based on reality. The guy is a fan. I remember his posts on the old Dust N' Bones mailing list in the mid 90's. The guy never had a bad thing to say about Axl. Ever. It's who he was then and it's who he is today. Again, my feeling for why his tolerance for personal snipes or criticisms of Axl and the band waned over the years is more to do with his relationship with the band and Axl and has nothing to do with the perks he gets out of it. If I grew personally attached to someone over a period of time I'd likely feel less inclined to hear constant criticisms of them as well. Does that make Jarmo objective in many of his assessments? In my opinion, absolutely not. Which, again, is why I stopped posting at HTGTH. Does that make him a whore? Fucking no.

Like I said, taking issue with how he runs his forum is one thing; calling the guy a whore who has no dignity is absurd and repugnant.

There is a difference in being a fan and being a fanBOY. One respects the artist. The other is borderline insane. You can't DO the things he's done and say the things he's said and not be deluded. Slash, Duff, Matt, Izzy and Steven ALL knew and was closer to Axl than Jarmo ever will be and yet, I don't see any of them approaching his level of delusion where Axl walks on water and anyone who disagrees... must pay.

Jarmo was nothing more than a nonviolent, slightly less insane James Hinkley. He was an obsessive fan to the point where he was willing to be, say and DO anything to get Axl's attention. It worked, but who's impressed? I'm not impressed. Not many people are. Most just shake their heads.

At one point, all of us loved the original band. That's why we're here. All of us, at one point, would have loved to have a chat with anyone in the band. But let me make this clear. Not many of us would have gone to the level of obsessive creepiness that Jarmo did back in the day to achieve it. Why? Because it's not within the confines of the normal human psyche.

You can disagree with me but, the way he behaved over the years... something isn't right in that guys head.

I'm disagreeing with you because you're ascribing a motivation that is misplaced. Like I said, I've had interactions with the guy going back almost twenty years. Even before he had a website when it was just a bunch of us GNR nerds discussing things through a mailing list Jarmo was always an Axl defender. It's who he always was. You're trying to make it sound as though he changed because GNR now takes him on the road. And what I'm trying to convey is that this attitude is wrong and is uttered by people who didn't know him way back. It's a fallacy to believe that Jarmo had some sort of master plan with his forum. Honestly, he's just a devoted Axl/GNR fan who got lucky.

And you're also missing my point about why Jarmo has little concern for criticisms of Axl. It isn't because he's a fanboy (he was a fanboy well before he even had a forum), it's because he's friends with GNR and management. If you saw your friends getting savaged on a discussion forum you controlled, my bet is you might act somewhat similarly. Again, i don't know you, maybe you would be fine with watching your friends get torn apart day in and day out, but that isn't Jarmo. The guy is passionate about a band who happens to be friends with. That's all there is to it. You're making way more out of it than there really needs to be.

And let's call a spade a spade - if you're still posting on a GNR fan forum this far out from a new GNR album, you're a little GNR obsessed as well. Sure, some are little more obsessed than others, but let's not get all high and mighty as if the rest of us have a completely normal interest in the band.

I simply do not agree, downzy.

Consider this. Maybe the reason people have a problem with jarmo is they all have had some sort of problem with him. That forum used to be active at one stage. Where are all those posters? They all left, with a grievance. It is actually not nice to have innocent posts deleted just because they might have a slight repercussion on Axl; it is not, how can I put it, gentleman like conduct. You write a post, come back the next day and zap: it is vanished. You are inherently going to walk away from such an experience believing Jarmo is the biggest arse bandit in the western hemisphere.

I don't disagree with you about how Jarmo moderates his forum. My only issue is the motivations people are ascribing to Jarmo for why he moderates HTGTH the way he does.

His motivation is that Axl invites him to tour. Axl pays his hotel rooms, meals, flying tickets. The guy is not gonna give up all that. I think it´s clear. But at least he could share a little bit of that sometimes with people posting in his forum. He could at least try and ask the camp if someone else bisedes him could get a ticket to a show for free or something. He could ask the camp for exclusive information. He might get a no for an answer but at least he could try and show the fans in his forum he cares for them and not only for himself. What´s the point of running a forum and being close to the band if the other people there never get something especial?

[downzy]

I still don't see the need to scorn the guy simply because he's been living the dream of any hardcore GNR fan would kill for.

I am beyond tired of hearing this. Not everyone would trade in his/her dignity and whore themselves out like a prostitute just to be able to say they hung out with "nu" GNR. Actually, I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of people around here would be suicidal if they woke up in Jarmo's shoes.

There is nothing to be praised imo. Selling ones self out to be a hanger on? Didn't Axl once say in a song something to the effect of "Vicarious existence is a fuckin' waste of time"?

What the fuck are you talking about? Whoring himself out? It's a internet online forum. It's not like the forum is his day-job or that it pays his bills. I'm not going to share personal information about what the guy does as a day job but he has his own life outside of GNR. It's not like he owes anyone anything? I honestly don't understand why people care so much.

Dignity. You've got kidding me. Do you really think the band and/or management went to Jarmo and told him he'd get all these perks if he'd shut down all criticism on his site? Like I said, this cynical attitude isn't based on reality. The guy is a fan. I remember his posts on the old Dust N' Bones mailing list in the mid 90's. The guy never had a bad thing to say about Axl. Ever. It's who he was then and it's who he is today. Again, my feeling for why his tolerance for personal snipes or criticisms of Axl and the band waned over the years is more to do with his relationship with the band and Axl and has nothing to do with the perks he gets out of it. If I grew personally attached to someone over a period of time I'd likely feel less inclined to hear constant criticisms of them as well. Does that make Jarmo objective in many of his assessments? In my opinion, absolutely not. Which, again, is why I stopped posting at HTGTH. Does that make him a whore? Fucking no.

Like I said, taking issue with how he runs his forum is one thing; calling the guy a whore who has no dignity is absurd and repugnant.

There is a difference in being a fan and being a fanBOY. One respects the artist. The other is borderline insane. You can't DO the things he's done and say the things he's said and not be deluded. Slash, Duff, Matt, Izzy and Steven ALL knew and was closer to Axl than Jarmo ever will be and yet, I don't see any of them approaching his level of delusion where Axl walks on water and anyone who disagrees... must pay.

Jarmo was nothing more than a nonviolent, slightly less insane James Hinkley. He was an obsessive fan to the point where he was willing to be, say and DO anything to get Axl's attention. It worked, but who's impressed? I'm not impressed. Not many people are. Most just shake their heads.

At one point, all of us loved the original band. That's why we're here. All of us, at one point, would have loved to have a chat with anyone in the band. But let me make this clear. Not many of us would have gone to the level of obsessive creepiness that Jarmo did back in the day to achieve it. Why? Because it's not within the confines of the normal human psyche.

You can disagree with me but, the way he behaved over the years... something isn't right in that guys head.

I'm disagreeing with you because you're ascribing a motivation that is misplaced. Like I said, I've had interactions with the guy going back almost twenty years. Even before he had a website when it was just a bunch of us GNR nerds discussing things through a mailing list Jarmo was always an Axl defender. It's who he always was. You're trying to make it sound as though he changed because GNR now takes him on the road. And what I'm trying to convey is that this attitude is wrong and is uttered by people who didn't know him way back. It's a fallacy to believe that Jarmo had some sort of master plan with his forum. Honestly, he's just a devoted Axl/GNR fan who got lucky.

And you're also missing my point about why Jarmo has little concern for criticisms of Axl. It isn't because he's a fanboy (he was a fanboy well before he even had a forum), it's because he's friends with GNR and management. If you saw your friends getting savaged on a discussion forum you controlled, my bet is you might act somewhat similarly. Again, i don't know you, maybe you would be fine with watching your friends get torn apart day in and day out, but that isn't Jarmo. The guy is passionate about a band who happens to be friends with. That's all there is to it. You're making way more out of it than there really needs to be.

And let's call a spade a spade - if you're still posting on a GNR fan forum this far out from a new GNR album, you're a little GNR obsessed as well. Sure, some are little more obsessed than others, but let's not get all high and mighty as if the rest of us have a completely normal interest in the band.

I simply do not agree, downzy.

Consider this. Maybe the reason people have a problem with jarmo is they all have had some sort of problem with him. That forum used to be active at one stage. Where are all those posters? They all left, with a grievance. It is actually not nice to have innocent posts deleted just because they might have a slight repercussion on Axl; it is not, how can I put it, gentleman like conduct. You write a post, come back the next day and zap: it is vanished. You are inherently going to walk away from such an experience believing Jarmo is the biggest arse bandit in the western hemisphere.

I don't disagree with you about how Jarmo moderates his forum. My only issue is the motivations people are ascribing to Jarmo for why he moderates HTGTH the way he does.

His motivation is that Axl invites him to tour. Axl pays his hotel rooms, meals, flying tickets. The guy is not gonna give up all that. I think it´s clear. But at least he could share a little bit of that sometimes with people posting in his forum. He could at least try and ask the camp if someone else bisedes him could get a ticket to a show for free or something. He could ask the camp for exclusive information. He might get a no for an answer but at least he could try and show the fans in his forum he cares for them and not only for himself. What´s the point of running a forum and being close to the band if the other people there never get something especial?

Well, prior to him becoming an actual employee of the band, I know for a fact that he paid is own way whenever GNR toured. When I met him in 2010, GNR was not covering any of his expenses. Again, what I have an issue with are attacks against someone that's based on faulty assumptions. That is what you're doing here.

As for him not spreading the wealth around, again, that's simply not true. I'm not going to divulge personal information about others, but Jarmo has helped other fans in many ways. (Full disclosure, his forum, through the pre-sale organized by Mysteron, allowed me to score a Hammerstein ticket in 2006).

[Padme]

What other fans have been on tour besides him? If by help you mean giving away a password or a meet and greet pass that ain´t much

[WFA]

So Mysteron helped you get it, not /jarmo.

[DieselDaisy]

I still don't see the need to scorn the guy simply because he's been living the dream of any hardcore GNR fan would kill for.

I am beyond tired of hearing this. Not everyone would trade in his/her dignity and whore themselves out like a prostitute just to be able to say they hung out with "nu" GNR. Actually, I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of people around here would be suicidal if they woke up in Jarmo's shoes.

There is nothing to be praised imo. Selling ones self out to be a hanger on? Didn't Axl once say in a song something to the effect of "Vicarious existence is a fuckin' waste of time"?

What the fuck are you talking about? Whoring himself out? It's a internet online forum. It's not like the forum is his day-job or that it pays his bills. I'm not going to share personal information about what the guy does as a day job but he has his own life outside of GNR. It's not like he owes anyone anything? I honestly don't understand why people care so much.

Dignity. You've got kidding me. Do you really think the band and/or management went to Jarmo and told him he'd get all these perks if he'd shut down all criticism on his site? Like I said, this cynical attitude isn't based on reality. The guy is a fan. I remember his posts on the old Dust N' Bones mailing list in the mid 90's. The guy never had a bad thing to say about Axl. Ever. It's who he was then and it's who he is today. Again, my feeling for why his tolerance for personal snipes or criticisms of Axl and the band waned over the years is more to do with his relationship with the band and Axl and has nothing to do with the perks he gets out of it. If I grew personally attached to someone over a period of time I'd likely feel less inclined to hear constant criticisms of them as well. Does that make Jarmo objective in many of his assessments? In my opinion, absolutely not. Which, again, is why I stopped posting at HTGTH. Does that make him a whore? Fucking no.

Like I said, taking issue with how he runs his forum is one thing; calling the guy a whore who has no dignity is absurd and repugnant.

There is a difference in being a fan and being a fanBOY. One respects the artist. The other is borderline insane. You can't DO the things he's done and say the things he's said and not be deluded. Slash, Duff, Matt, Izzy and Steven ALL knew and was closer to Axl than Jarmo ever will be and yet, I don't see any of them approaching his level of delusion where Axl walks on water and anyone who disagrees... must pay.

Jarmo was nothing more than a nonviolent, slightly less insane James Hinkley. He was an obsessive fan to the point where he was willing to be, say and DO anything to get Axl's attention. It worked, but who's impressed? I'm not impressed. Not many people are. Most just shake their heads.

At one point, all of us loved the original band. That's why we're here. All of us, at one point, would have loved to have a chat with anyone in the band. But let me make this clear. Not many of us would have gone to the level of obsessive creepiness that Jarmo did back in the day to achieve it. Why? Because it's not within the confines of the normal human psyche.

You can disagree with me but, the way he behaved over the years... something isn't right in that guys head.

I'm disagreeing with you because you're ascribing a motivation that is misplaced. Like I said, I've had interactions with the guy going back almost twenty years. Even before he had a website when it was just a bunch of us GNR nerds discussing things through a mailing list Jarmo was always an Axl defender. It's who he always was. You're trying to make it sound as though he changed because GNR now takes him on the road. And what I'm trying to convey is that this attitude is wrong and is uttered by people who didn't know him way back. It's a fallacy to believe that Jarmo had some sort of master plan with his forum. Honestly, he's just a devoted Axl/GNR fan who got lucky.

And you're also missing my point about why Jarmo has little concern for criticisms of Axl. It isn't because he's a fanboy (he was a fanboy well before he even had a forum), it's because he's friends with GNR and management. If you saw your friends getting savaged on a discussion forum you controlled, my bet is you might act somewhat similarly. Again, i don't know you, maybe you would be fine with watching your friends get torn apart day in and day out, but that isn't Jarmo. The guy is passionate about a band who happens to be friends with. That's all there is to it. You're making way more out of it than there really needs to be.

And let's call a spade a spade - if you're still posting on a GNR fan forum this far out from a new GNR album, you're a little GNR obsessed as well. Sure, some are little more obsessed than others, but let's not get all high and mighty as if the rest of us have a completely normal interest in the band.

I simply do not agree, downzy.

Consider this. Maybe the reason people have a problem with jarmo is they all have had some sort of problem with him. That forum used to be active at one stage. Where are all those posters? They all left, with a grievance. It is actually not nice to have innocent posts deleted just because they might have a slight repercussion on Axl; it is not, how can I put it, gentleman like conduct. You write a post, come back the next day and zap: it is vanished. You are inherently going to walk away from such an experience believing Jarmo is the biggest arse bandit in the western hemisphere.

I don't disagree with you about how Jarmo moderates his forum. My only issue is the motivations people are ascribing to Jarmo for why he moderates HTGTH the way he does.

His motivation is that Axl invites him to tour. Axl pays his hotel rooms, meals, flying tickets. The guy is not gonna give up all that. I think it´s clear. But at least he could share a little bit of that sometimes with people posting in his forum. He could at least try and ask the camp if someone else bisedes him could get a ticket to a show for free or something. He could ask the camp for exclusive information. He might get a no for an answer but at least he could try and show the fans in his forum he cares for them and not only for himself. What´s the point of running a forum and being close to the band if the other people there never get something especial?

Well, prior to him becoming an actual employee of the band, I know for a fact that he paid is own way whenever GNR toured. When I met him in 2010, GNR was not covering any of his expenses. Again, what I have an issue with are attacks against someone that's based on faulty assumptions. That is what you're doing here.

As for him not spreading the wealth around, again, that's simply not true. I'm not going to divulge personal information about others, but Jarmo has helped other fans in many ways. (Full disclosure, his forum, through the pre-sale organized by Mysteron, allowed me to score a Hammerstein ticket in 2006).

You have been bought haha.

[WAR41]

Full disclosure, his forum, through the pre-sale organized by Mysteron, allowed me to score a Hammerstein ticket in 2006

Same here. I took advantage of that

[SoulMonster]

Jarmo can run his site anyway he likes, and if you happen to not like it, just don't post there. Simply as that. No point in retorting to childish name-calling.

[Apollo]

Why is Jarmo required to help out other fans? Have any of you guys scored free tickets for random strangers?

I've never liked the way he runs HTGTH.

But Downzy makes some great points. It's his forum to do with however he wants. I have a FB page that celebrates the music I love. And because of it, I've chatted with a few old "rock" stars - guys from Tora Tora, Junkyard, Dangerous Toys, Babylon A.D. I started it as a FAN page - meaning if people are disrespectful or rude about the artists I like - I give them one warning and then I delete them from the page. It isn't about freedom of speech, it isn't an open forum for people to post whatever they want. It's my page and I am the dictator. And if people don't like it - they can go find one of the other millions of rock pages to post on.

I don't like HTGTH so I don't post there. And he has been a douche to me a the couple of times I've posted there. But Jarmo can do whatever he wants. It's his forum to operate however he chooses.

Personally, I'd rather take my daughter to the beach for a couple hours or go build a fort with my son than I would want to hang out for a couple weeks on tour with The Beta, Fernando, Del and the rest of GnR. But that's MY personal choice. If Jarmo wants to be best buddies with The Beta and company - more power to him. It's his life to do as he pleases with. My co-worker's wife was out of town last weekend and he said from Friday-to-Monday he logged in 30 hours playing some new online video game. Everybody is free to do whatever they want with their lives.

I've said some rude things about him giving up his dignity to be a celeb worshipper in the past. Thank you for your detailed posts Downzy, you've made me realize I was wrong with some of the things I was saying.

[Apollo]

Jarmo can run his site anyway he likes, and if you happen to not like it, just don't post there. Simply as that. No point in retorting to childish name-calling.

Exactly.

[ZoSoRose]

As much of a kiss- ass as Jarmo can be, he gets to travel around the world and dick around with Guns N' Roses. Fuck yeah, I'd take that deal. Beats the shit out of hating life in fuck-all Bay City, Michigan!

[OmarBradley]

Why is Jarmo required to help out other fans? Have any of you guys scored free tickets for random strangers?

I've never liked the way he runs HTGTH.

But Downzy makes some great points. It's his forum to do with however he wants. I have a FB page that celebrates the music I love. And because of it, I've chatted with a few old "rock" stars - guys from Tora Tora, Junkyard, Dangerous Toys, Babylon A.D. I started it as a FAN page - meaning if people are disrespectful or rude about the artists I like - I give them one warning and then I delete them from the page. It isn't about freedom of speech, it isn't an open forum for people to post whatever they want. It's my page and I am the dictator. And if people don't like it - they can go find one of the other millions of rock pages to post on.

I don't like HTGTH so I don't post there. And he has been a douche to me a the couple of times I've posted there. But Jarmo can do whatever he wants. It's his forum to operate however he chooses.

Personally, I'd rather take my daughter to the beach for a couple hours or go build a fort with my son than I would want to hang out for a couple weeks on tour with The Beta, Fernando, Del and the rest of GnR. But that's MY personal choice. If Jarmo wants to be best buddies with The Beta and company - more power to him. It's his life to do as he pleases with. My co-worker's wife was out of town last weekend and he said from Friday-to-Monday he logged in 30 hours playing some new online video game. Everybody is free to do whatever they want with their lives.

I've said some rude things about him giving up his dignity to be a celeb worshipper in the past. Thank you for your detailed posts Downzy, you've made me realize I was wrong with some of the things I was saying.

Tora Tora!!!!!!

[Apollo]

Why is Jarmo required to help out other fans? Have any of you guys scored free tickets for random strangers?

I've never liked the way he runs HTGTH.

But Downzy makes some great points. It's his forum to do with however he wants. I have a FB page that celebrates the music I love. And because of it, I've chatted with a few old "rock" stars - guys from Tora Tora, Junkyard, Dangerous Toys, Babylon A.D. I started it as a FAN page - meaning if people are disrespectful or rude about the artists I like - I give them one warning and then I delete them from the page. It isn't about freedom of speech, it isn't an open forum for people to post whatever they want. It's my page and I am the dictator. And if people don't like it - they can go find one of the other millions of rock pages to post on.

I don't like HTGTH so I don't post there. And he has been a douche to me a the couple of times I've posted there. But Jarmo can do whatever he wants. It's his forum to operate however he chooses.

Personally, I'd rather take my daughter to the beach for a couple hours or go build a fort with my son than I would want to hang out for a couple weeks on tour with The Beta, Fernando, Del and the rest of GnR. But that's MY personal choice. If Jarmo wants to be best buddies with The Beta and company - more power to him. It's his life to do as he pleases with. My co-worker's wife was out of town last weekend and he said from Friday-to-Monday he logged in 30 hours playing some new online video game. Everybody is free to do whatever they want with their lives.

I've said some rude things about him giving up his dignity to be a celeb worshipper in the past. Thank you for your detailed posts Downzy, you've made me realize I was wrong with some of the things I was saying.

Tora Tora!!!!!!

Mr. Corder was very cool to chat with.