DieselDaisy Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 But he was shit for France even though he ended up with a winners medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Never performed at a World Cup. Does not matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) I think he is the best of all time. 100% From the skill i see on the pitch i agree with you. But the achievments aren't there (i.e. World Cup). Were this shit decided on what Lenny and Luke think he'd have the fuckin' blue ribbon but it ain't. This is why i was willing the Argies so much during the World Cup once the lads were out.But he was shit for France even though he ended up with a winners medal.Still won it Still won em all. You can't have it both ways, if the one that didn't get it gets ridden for not having it the one that did get it deserves his dues. Edited March 20, 2015 by Len B'stard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 If we are talking about this list,Pele, Garrincha, Charlton, Moore, Cruyff, Maradona, Zidane.You have to perform at a World Cup. It is that simple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 It's all about Diego Armada Cocainum Maradonna, all day long, that boy was a fucking G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 More like, cheating bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) It ain't cheating if you can get away with it as the great Angie Dundee put it. Also, look, alright he cheated, hand of God, i get it...what about the goal after that where he tore up the wing, took the entire defence on and slammed it in the back of the net, was that cheating too? I want England to win as much as anybody but whats real is real. Edited March 20, 2015 by Len B'stard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 You have been in this country long enough to know that the word Maradona is a red rag to any self-respecting Englishman.Have you seen that documentary where Linker visited Maradona in his native Argentina? Crazy bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 No but i get the feeling i'd want to, what happened in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I think this is it (I saw it when it originally aired), He walks around his native Argentina like Don Vito. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I'll have to watch that, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Maradona has a similar style as Roberto Duran in the sense that they both born out of that archetypal 'Latin American' machismo culture; they both possess 'cojones' and are actually proud of 'playing dirty', as if the rulebook was something written by a homosexual Englishman and to be discarded at whim. They both feel (however incorrectly in that viewpoint) that they were in someway fighting for their respective, hopelessly corrupt and inefficient states, against an Anglo-American-establishment stranglehold. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GivenToFly Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Not without a World Cup winners medal he ain't.Absurd argument. It's a team sport, there's only so much one man can do, even if he's Messi.Besides, how did he not perform at this last World Cup? He basically dragged a mediocre team to the final.Also, look, alright he cheated, hand of God, i get it...what about the goal after that where he tore up the wing, took the entire defence on and slammed it in the back of the net, was that cheating too?You know, this is the EXACT argument I make whenever somebody brings that up!This obsession with cheating, diving etc is a very English thing; I haven't met people from other places that are as fiercely against it. To my mind the responsibility of keeping the game within the rules belongs to the referees. The players' responsibility is to win. So they not only play against the other team, they also play against the referee. That's competitive too and it adds to the game.Champions League quarter finals:Paris Saint-Germain vs. FC BarcelonaClub Atlético de Madrid vs. Real Madrid CFFC Porto vs. FC Bayern MünchenJuventus F.C. vs. AS Monaco FCI think it's pretty open. Barcelona, Atletico, Real and Bayern all have a pretty good chance.Who knows, we might even see a surprise winner, or at least a surprise runner up. Edited March 20, 2015 by GivenToFly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Absurd argument. It's a team sport, there's only so much one man can do, even if he's Messi.Besides, how did he not perform at this last World Cup? He basically dragged a mediocre team to the final.Maradonna dragged one to the World Cup, thats the point, that is the pedigree you are being compared with when you are being called the best ever, it's not in the least bit absurd, it's been the standard criteria since forever when judging whether a player is the best ever or not. I love and adore Messi, he's my favorite living football player and i do think he is the best ever, i sincerely believe that and i think he's a joy to watch but that criteria doesn't change just because i want desperately for Messi to be a great, or the greatest. Thats the whole point, to be considered among the Maradonnas and Peles you have to be of the sort that can drag a team to the World Cup. I agree he doesn't get enough credit for what he did achieve in the World Cup but it still weren't enough. This is not like comparing rock bands, it's not subjective, there are boxes to tick and if you miss one history does not forgive you because you are Messi.To my mind the responsibility of keeping the game within the rules belongs to the referees. The players' responsibility is to win. So they not only play against the other team, they also play against the referee. That's competitive too and it adds to the game.Well put Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I see it as doing incredible things with a football on the biggest stage possibly, namely the w.c.. Now Messi has done incredible things with a football but not at a world cup. Also, this is a fairly elite group we are talking about here: Pele and Maradona are not of this earth.This obsession with cheating, diving etc is a very English thing; I haven't met people from other places that are as fiercely against it. To my mind the responsibility of keeping the game within the rules belongs to the referees. The players' responsibility is to win. So they not only play against the other team, they also play against the referee. That's competitive too and it adds to the game.And who was Diego playing against? England. Naturally Englishmen can only interpret the game through their own national parameters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GivenToFly Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 This obsession with cheating, diving etc is a very English thing; I haven't met people from other places that are as fiercely against it. To my mind the responsibility of keeping the game within the rules belongs to the referees. The players' responsibility is to win. So they not only play against the other team, they also play against the referee. That's competitive too and it adds to the game.And who was Diego playing against? England. Naturally Englishmen can only interpret the game through their own national parameters. I'm not just talking about that moment. I mainly see it in regards to diving. The English hatred for diving and the players who do it is in my experience extreme. Others are more chill about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Just the way we are. God in his infinitive wisdom did not make Englishmen out of Argentineans.Probably it is culturally embedded in 19th century 'gentlemen' amateurism which dominated the history of sports throughout the 18th and 19th centuries and well into the 20th for certain sports (much later for some sports such as Cricket and Tennis). It might also have to do with the fact that England codified most of these sports, Marquess of Queensbury, Laws of Cricket, etc. It stands to reason that we would be more obsessed with fidelity to the rule book if that rule book is an English invention. Edited March 20, 2015 by DieselDaisy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 As far as i see everyone gets wound up fiercely about diving, it just depends whether its your own side doing it or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Come to think of it, has Messi even won a Copa America?Re: the CL DrawI pick Barca, Atletico, Bayern and Juve. I think Juve could dark horse their way at least to the final if not the title. Edited March 20, 2015 by moreblack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLegend Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 No. Final 2007 is the closest. They were QF in 2011. However he did win the Olympics in 2006. fyi Watched that Maradona interview for the first time in years, it's typical they had to ask him about England's chances and Rooney at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I'd like Barca and Bayern final...and Barca to stuff them, Messi hatrick and Neymar cherry on top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I would put money on Pep knowing how to beat Barca. He's still got the core of that Bayern team that won 3-0 at the Nou Camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I think so too. I just hope it's not so embarassing this time. He was loving watching the City game though eh, did ya see him up there marvelling at young Leo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLegend Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I'll pass on wanting to see Tiki taka vs. Tiki taka. Ugh. Beside that I wouldn't be surprised if PSG knock out Barca, they beat Barca in 1 of the matches earlier in the group stages.I think Juve have decent outside chance to win this.Only reason I don't fancy Madrid is the cliche about the champion's never retaining. I reckon they'll get past Atletico if Ramos, James are back before the 2nd leg and this is the Champion's League afterall... the only competition Madrid care about half the time.Atletico are too weak atm, not convincing. The only upside is that they know how to play against Real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) I think so too. I just hope it's not so embarassing this time. He was loving watching the City game though eh, did ya see him up there marvelling at young Leo? Yeah, I wonder if he misses being there.But as for PSG, they could barely get past Chelsea, they're gonna have an even tougher time getting a hold of the ball against Barca. Edited March 20, 2015 by moreblack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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