Ultimate Guitar: Reunion with Axl, Slash, Duff, Richard, Frank

[Lies They Tell]

Feel free to disagree, but IMO they've written lots of great tunes without Izzy. So I'm not worried if Stradlin isn't a part of the reunion. Of course it would be fun if he was coming back. But I happen to care about great music. So instead of complaining, I cheer if Rock Gods like Axl and Slash reunite. That means more great music to us who appreciate it.

Sorry but Axl Rose is not a God to me and neither is Slash, they're just people that make nice songs, yes they're written great songs without Izzy, in the direct sense of his not having the writing credits on ALL the songs but why do those supercede the ones that were written WITH Izzy, as substantial as that contribution is, why one over the other? You care about great music yet you believe that an aspect of the band that would offer you great music is more or less superfluous?

Why one over the other? I think you should ask yourself that question.

I'm not the one putting one over the other. You are. I'd be more than happy to have Izzy back. And I'm not blind to his input in any way. The difference is that I don't supercede the input of the others either. I know that they're great songwriters even without Izzy, so I'm happy if Axl, Duff and Slash reunite. You're the one who's disappointed, so you should ask yourself, why do you supercede the songs that don't have Izzy's input.

I'm just happy if we're getting more great music. I don't consider Izzy superfluous in any way. If Izzy would come back to GNR they'd write great songs faster than without him. But even without him, we'd get incredible music that's better than 99% of the stuff out there. So that's why I don't see a reason to complain. Axl, Slash and Duff together is much much much much much much much better than if they wouldn't work together. A couple of years ago nobody would have thought it's possible that Axl and Slash bury the hatchet. But it happened. It's a miracle. So why shouldn't I be happy?

[wasted]

It's just that say we can't get Izzy or Steven, Gilby or Fortus is going to do it. Then the purists throw a shit fit and then I wasted of reason says who gives a shit we're all gonna get laid! It's just the reality of the situation. Can the 1.5 mil and a lot of happy fans just because Izzy and Steven cant do it?

[Billsfan]

It's just that say we can't get Izzy or Steven, Gilby or Fortus is going to do it. Then the purists throw a shit fit and then I wasted of reason says who gives a shit we're all gonna get laid! It's just the reality of the situation. Can the 1.5 mil and a lot of happy fans just because Izzy and Steven cant do it?

you're getting laid?

[Len Cnut]

Why one over the other? I think you should ask yourself that question.

I'm not the one putting one over the other. You are. I'd be more than happy to have Izzy back. And I'm not blind to his input in any way. The difference is that I don't supercede the input of the others either. I know that they're great songwriters even without Izzy, so I'm happy if Axl, Duff and Slash reunite. You're the one who's disappointed, so you should ask yourself, why do you supercede the songs that don't have Izzy's input.

Well you've answered your own question, he had a substantial contribution, one that, by your own admission, you're not blind to. So that answers the inclusion of Izzy over a lack of Izzy. So now you answer the question, because despite their being 'great' without Izzy, by your own admission, logically, they'd be greater with and more definitive with, my objection is to it being incomplete, you are the one making a case for the contribution of those three to the exclusion of the Izzy, hence my question. In short, I'm asking for EVERYONE contribution to be in there.

I'm just happy if we're getting more great music. I don't consider Izzy superfluous in any way. If Izzy would come back to GNR they'd write great songs faster than without him. But even without him, we'd get incredible music that's better than 99% of the stuff out there. So that's why I don't see a reason to complain.

So it's a case of 'I'll take second rate cuz music nowadays is a load of bullshit and it'll beat the hell out of that'? Perhaps thats why so much music is bullshit these days, these sorts of attitudes, this weird desperation where it's like 'oh as long as it's SOMETHING like Guns n Roses!', whys it that fuckin' important? To where you have to compromise the musical quality of what made this bad, and it is a compromise based on the fact that you agree to the validity of Izzys contribution.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Len B'stard

[Len Cnut]

It's just that say we can't get Izzy or Steven, Gilby or Fortus is going to do it. Then the purists throw a shit fit and then I wasted of reason says who gives a shit we're all gonna get laid! It's just the reality of the situation. Can the 1.5 mil and a lot of happy fans just because Izzy and Steven cant do it?

fair enough man, to be honest I'm just arguing the principle at hand, i don't actually care about Guns n Roses or a reunion, I'm drawn to this debate more by the arguments and the principles therein, i don't actually care about a reunion one way or the other anymore, i think they're a bunch of wankers quite frankly but i was once a massive fan on this band and i do believe that an Izzyless reunion is basically settling for less. And i like to think that when i was into these guys it weren't cuz i fancied em, it was cuz i liked their music, still do really, can't deny the quality there.

Yeah, the reality of the situation is that if you got those guys in then it'd sell and be big but personally thats not really what i found to be special about GnR in the first place, that would happen with a reunion to whatever degree, so since thats sort of in the bank to begin with wouldn't it be better to push for getting as much of the right players in place as humanly possible? Or am i being too nerdy?

[DieselDaisy]

I saw the Stones at Wembley in 1999 and the crowd, a great swath of them, started shouting ''Charlie''. It happens at nearly every show. If you do not know who Charlie Watts is and you are at a Stones show, you shouldn't be there. It is that simple.

It really isn't. I've been to stadium shows of Metallica, ACDC, Eagles. I have some knowledge of these bands but I can't name the line ups.

Charlie might be as important as Mick n Keef but I doubt it. There's people at these shows that just go because it's the Stones or their boyfriend loves the band. Some people just like the songs or go with friends. That was my first Stones show, how am I supposed to know all the rituals of Stones fanatics.

If the stadium is full of Diesel and Lenny rock encyclopedias then I'm not going again. It's too intense. Look at her with the big tits, she doesn't know who Izzy Stradlin is does she?

I cannot agree in the slightest. I think rock crowds are varied with a lot of different people of variable degrees of casualness/fandom, but I hasten to bet if you poll a Stones crowd, the majority of them, say about 70-80%, would know who Charlie bloody Watts is! Sure, there is a few people who have been dragged to the thing but how big a demographic is this? And even they may know Charlie Watts.

[Len Cnut]

I've never met a Stones fan in my life that doesn't know who Charlie Watts is.

[wasted]

It's just that say we can't get Izzy or Steven, Gilby or Fortus is going to do it. Then the purists throw a shit fit and then I wasted of reason says who gives a shit we're all gonna get laid! It's just the reality of the situation. Can the 1.5 mil and a lot of happy fans just because Izzy and Steven cant do it?

you're getting laid?

Undetectable.

[Lies They Tell]

Why one over the other? I think you should ask yourself that question.

I'm not the one putting one over the other. You are. I'd be more than happy to have Izzy back. And I'm not blind to his input in any way. The difference is that I don't supercede the input of the others either. I know that they're great songwriters even without Izzy, so I'm happy if Axl, Duff and Slash reunite. You're the one who's disappointed, so you should ask yourself, why do you supercede the songs that don't have Izzy's input.

Well you've answered your own question, he had a substantial contribution, one that, by your own admission, you're blind to. So that answers the inclusion of Izzy over a lack of Izzy. So now you answer the question, because despite their being 'great' without Izzy, by your own admission, logically, they'd be greater with and more definitive with, my objection is to it being incomplete, you are the one making a case for the contribution of those three to the exclusion of the Izzy, hence my question.

What makes you think I'm blind to Izzy's contributions? I'd prefer GNR with Izzy over GNR without Izzy. But then again I don't know if Izzy even wants to return to GNR. I don't know Izzy personally. I don't know the things that Axl, Slash and Duff know about Izzy. Maybe Izzy isn't a reliable guy either. In that case it's fully understandable if they decide to continue with GNR without him. And allhough I'd prefer GNR with Izzy's input, GNR with only Axl, Slash and Duff is still milllions of times better than no GNR at all.

I'm just happy if we're getting more great music. I don't consider Izzy superfluous in any way. If Izzy would come back to GNR they'd write great songs faster than without him. But even without him, we'd get incredible music that's better than 99% of the stuff out there. So that's why I don't see a reason to complain.

So it's a case of 'I'll take second rate cuz music nowadays is a load of bullshit and it'll beat the hell out of that'? Perhaps thats why so much music is bullshit these days, these sorts of attitudes, this weird desperation where it's like 'oh as long as it's SOMETHING like Guns n Roses!', whys it that fuckin' important? To where you have to compromise the musical quality of what made this bad, and it is a compromise based on the fact that you agree to the validity of Izzys contribution.

But it's not like the music that Axl, Slash and Duff would write together would be just so so. It's not like it would be just SOMETHING like Guns N' Roses. The music that these guys would write together would be freaking sick. Incredible stuff. It would most likely be the best thing that's happened to music in ages. So of course I want it. Even if there's no Izzy. Cause this world needs more great music.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Lies They Tell

[Russel Nash]

I've never met a Stones fan in my life that doesn't know who Charlie Watts is.

This, everyone knows Charlie, the doubts lies in if is he dead or not.

[wasted]

It's just that say we can't get Izzy or Steven, Gilby or Fortus is going to do it. Then the purists throw a shit fit and then I wasted of reason says who gives a shit we're all gonna get laid! It's just the reality of the situation. Can the 1.5 mil and a lot of happy fans just because Izzy and Steven cant do it?

fair enough man, to be honest I'm just arguing the principle at hand, i don't actually care about Guns n Roses or a reunion, I'm drawn to this debate more by the arguments and the principles therein, i don't actually care about a reunion one way or the other anymore, i think they're a bunch of wankers quite frankly but i was once a massive fan on this band and i do believe that an Izzyless reunion is basically settling for less. And i like to think that when i was into these guys it weren't cuz i fancied em, it was cuz i liked their music, still do really, can't deny the quality there.

Yeah, the reality of the situation is that if you got those guys in then it'd sell and be big but personally thats not really what i found to be special about GnR in the first place, that would happen with a reunion to whatever degree, so since thats sort of in the bank to begin with wouldn't it be better to push for getting as much of the right players in place as humanly possible? Or am i being too nerdy?

Yes it would but it seems Steven is a disaster. maybe Izzy will do it in the end. But the reality is the money is on the table for Axl, Slash and Duff for a reason.

In the same situation maybe Charlie is Duff. The Stones reunion would be Mick, Keef and Charlie and everyone would be okay with it.

Maybe there's a Stones fans who are like no Brian Jones, no Stones. And I'm the Stones fan who's too young to care?

So with GNR I assume there's kids just saying yes Axl and Slash I'm going.

[Len Cnut]

What makes you think I'm blind to Izzy's contributions? I'd prefer GNR with Izzy over GNR without Izzy. But then again I don't know if Izzy even wants to return to GNR. I don't know Izzy personally. I don't know the things that Axl, Slash and Duff know about Izzy. Maybe Izzy isn't a reliable guy either. In that case it's fully understandable if they decide to continue with GNR without him. And allhough I'd prefer GNR with Izzy's input, GNR with only Axl, Slash and Duff is still milllions of times better than no GNR at all.

Apologises sir, that was a spelling mistake, it meant to read 'not blind to', meaning you recognise Izzys contribution but are willing to write it off as long as you can get a reunion involving the others. So we agree basically, we'd prefer it with Izzys input, nice one.

But it's not like the music that Axl, Slash and Duff would write together would be just so so. It's not like it would be just SOMETHING like Guns N' Roses. The music that these guys would write together would be freaking sick. Incredible stuff. It would most likely be the best thing that's happened to music in ages.

I disagree, i don't think they can do it anymore, with or without Izzy although they'd have a better shot with than without...but thats another argument altogether. I don't think players can pick up where they left off 20 years ago and still expect that chemistry to be sitting their waiting for them, styles change, tastes change, ability and musical inclinations change, chemistry between band members is a precious thing, too few bands have respect for that notion but they all learn it one way or the other, chemistry has to be nutured, you have to evolve together as a unit i think. This is why I'm obssessive about the proper line ups. I'm not like this with ALL bands all the time but certain bands, when you manage a White Album or an Appetite or a Nevermind the Bollocks or an Exile on Main Street or a band like The Clash, where you kinda stumble upon this perfect potion to making AMAZING fuckin' music, the idea, the concept of a PEFECT album, in the way Exile is perfect and NMTB is perfect, each element plays its part in our ending up with the sum total and fucking with those equations rarely ends with positive results. Like The Clash were nothing without Topper Headon, they effectively fell apart...yeah they played stadiums and, as per the Wasted position, I'm tens of thousands of fans didn't notice...but musically they fell apart and didn't create anything approaching that kind of quality again.

Musical expression, a person playing and the way they play their instrument or sing, it's an utterly unique things, it's to do with how you learned and what your instruments like and how you felt that day or in those times and how that translated in your playing, it's a really precarious balance, it's like discovering a formula or something...and when you hit upon something like that, to where what you've got is REALLY special and can REALLY make a difference then, personally, i think the end result, the product, what you do together becomes more important than the individual elements and you should do everything in your power to preserve that and move that forward and see where you can take it. Listen to The Who with Keith Moon....and then without...listen to The Clash with Topper Headon...and then without. Listen to GnR even with Stevie Adler...and then with Sorum...yeah they gained something with Sorum but they also lost something, they never sounded as loose, as flowing, they never sounded like the locomotive with no brakes again, they sounded kinda...polished and more ordered and as a result, a little less unique musically. Even though they did some great songs with ol' Matthew. It's that altering of the formula again.

I think that original line up were REALLY special. I think they showed flashes, with songs like Used to Love Her, the bluesy You're Crazy, One in a Million, SCOM, Mama Kin (an Aerosmith song i know but listen to how GnR played it!), Brownstone, Patience...they appeared to be a band on the cusp of something really really really REALLY special. I think there was years of mileage in that band before they REALLY hit their peak...but what, they fucked it all up and at the heart of it is a lack of respect, from ALL parties, band members, fans (though interestingly enough not rock critics) of what made this band special and unique in the first place. So, the idea of a chop and change type reunion just to me proliferates what fucked this shit up in the first place and thats some backward shit, to me anyway.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Len B'stard

[double talkin jive mfkr]

to me slash and duff rejoining axl full time is basically picking up where things left off in 96/97

really need izzy to gel them better

[DieselDaisy]

If this is true about Fortus and Frank, it is typical of Guns N' Roses to serve their fanbase a weird hybrid non 'reunion' and not a bona fide legitimate reunion.

[Lies They Tell]

But it's not like the music that Axl, Slash and Duff would write together would be just so so. It's not like it would be just SOMETHING like Guns N' Roses. The music that these guys would write together would be freaking sick. Incredible stuff. It would most likely be the best thing that's happened to music in ages.

I disagree, i don't think they can do it anymore, with or without Izzy although they'd have a better shot with than without...but thats another argument altogether.

That's really the main thing that we disagree on. I have a strong feeling that the music that they'd create together would be really amazing. But of course neither one of us can know it for sure beforehand so we'll just gonna have to wait and see.

[ChineseIRS]

The way people are arguing is that Axl and Slash dont want Izzy to be a part of it. Maybe its Izzy who will decide he doesnt want to and they cant convince him to?

[Billsfan]

This could be the lineup we get next year, just so that way it keeps cdII relevant somewhat. Fortus said himself that slash could have parts on the next album and we all know duff and tommy come from the same mold so, duff re recording tommys parts could work. They put out that album tour a little bit, fans get excited because we at least have slash and duff back, then the 30th anniversary tour in 2017 with the original 5, sorum and dizzy. Works for everyone.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Billsfan

[ludurigan]

This is, by far, the most logical line-up. Izzy and Steven are way too unpredictable for something big like this.

Furthermore, I think Richard and Slash would be a perfect Rhythm - Lead combo.

So Izzy and Steven are "unpredictable"?

That probably means that mr. W. Axl Rose is very "predictable"...

Besides, who in the world wants a band that is "predictable"?

GNR didnt become the best band ever because they were "predictable".

They became the best band ever because they could write, record and perform great, terrific music.

All these professional and dedicated (and predictable) musicians that have been playing with Axl Rose for the last decade cant do that.

The five guys can

It is not 1990 anymore.

I agree that the music scene has been pretty tame for a while, but like it or not, these are different times.

we are in 2015, the five guys are alive and everybody knows they can make music together

of course you can deny that as much as you want

of course you can say that it is impossible

of course you can choose to play safe

playing safe is hiring nice and professional and predictable, fully in-control musicians like the ones we know so well

-- bumble this, dj that, frank this, miles that, todd this etc etc

thing is

these guys (specially axl and slash) have been playing safe for years now

they made a career out of playing safe

is there any safer thing that you can do than hire a nice guy that can hit all the notes just like Celine Dion to front a band? Miles Kennedy can hit as many high notes as he wants. He sings in fucking tune. He worked hard to be where he is and by all accounts he fully deserves to have all the success that hes got. He can write musics, he can play guitar, and you dont read anything about him complaining or having problems with addictions or any of that shit. many of us would love to be in his place. he is probably such a fucking nice guy that each and every one of us would probably be happy to have him as a friend or a band mate. but he is boring. his lyrics are downright embarrassing. his voice is annoying. and he sings about fucking elephants.

now is there any safer thing you can do than hiring professional, in control, predictable musicians like dj this, frank that, bumble this, richard that? axl started in another direction -- he hired some not so in-control and not so predictable people like bucket whatever and robin whatever. but they didnt fuckin last. it was similar to what slash and duff did by hiring that creepy weiland dude. it exploded eventually. so axl chose to play really, really safe and hired these very professional and very in control and very reliable musicians that got so thrilled to be in "GNR" (the money!, the exposure!, the fun!) that they wouldnt waste any time trying to say no to axl. why ruin it all if you can say yes? everybody gets happy, right? its just a shame that these musicians, like Miles, are terribly boring (sorry for repeating myself here)

now, there is a good side, of course, to playing safe

there is a good side, of course, to have reliable, predictable and willing-to-agree-with-you people in YOUR band

#1 good thing is that Axl, Izzy, Slash and Duff have basically full creative control on their bands

#2 good thing is that the professional and predictable and in-control hired band members are always happy, always willing to help, to play, to write, to hang out and to say yes. They dont create problems.

now what is the bad side of it?

we all know what the bad side is

the bad side is that after you tasted GNR

and you play with these type of people

there will always be something missing

it doesnt go all the way

it doesnt take you there

....

For some years, it was probably very nice for Slash, Axl, Izzy and Duff to play safe and have a healthy, controlled life

it was probably actually a big fucking relief to these guys to be able to leave all the madness behind and live a... predictable life!

thing is

now

it appears

(not sure of that, but it appears...)

that Axl

Izzy

Slash

and Duff

had enough

of safe

...

they are probably sick of playing safe with predictable musicians

they probably want to taste that madness called GNR again

to see if they can make GOLD out of it

even if it is just for one more time

===

and you know what?

you may like playing safe

but most of us are eagerly waiting for Guns n Roses to come back

You took the topic somewhere else...

My point is they are not the same guys they were 25 years ago. Slash is not a junkie and alcoholic kid fighting the demons of his parents' divorce. Duff is not an alcoholic anymore. Axl is not the same angry violent guy he was back then, etc.

Although they might still have issues (specially Axl), the quality and style of music they made back then doesn't give us any indication of the quality and style of music they would make today, because they are at a different place in life.

Who knows, maybe they could blow our brains with some amazing material, or they could release some stale crap trying to recreate something they don't have anymore, or they could release something boring, predictable and tame, like Aerosmith did after they got their shit together.

A lot of people have a really hard time understanding this, because everything related GNR is stained with nostalgia, and it makes them think that they still have it as a group... I'm afraid not, but I'm open to be surprised.

you have said it yourself

anything can happen

it can be great

of course they are not the same guys. they dont need to be the same guys to write great music. they can write slower music, who cares. they can write heavier, more mature lyrics. nobody is expecting them to write anything goes or appetite again. you got to be a fool to expect that

thing is, the five guys bring the best of each other when they write music together and/or when they collaborate on each others material

this greatness that they have WRITING MUSIC can happen again in 15 minutes if they get back together. it is that easy, ask anyone who writes music and they will tell you. the fact that you are in a different stage of your life doesnt stopyou from writing terrific music

I don't think it is that easy.

The fact that they made great music before doesn't mean that they can still do it. Why? Because it doesn't depend entirely on the people involved, the environment has a HUGE influence on the process, and if the set and setting are not right, no matter how talented these guys are, it just won't work.

It's not just that their songwriting and composing skills matched each other's, the timing was perfect. To get that sort of creative feedback between 5 people, you need more than just get them together in the same room. The drive, the mood and a bunch of other things have to be aligned. There's no doubt that if that was the case, they would make some awesome music, but having the 5 guys together isn't enough IMO.

Of course that everything that they were and all the things you mentioned -- The drive, the mood and a bunch of other things -- played a huge part in the creation of Appetite and that type of music. No one is expecting them to write Appetite again.

They are all in their 50s now, they are rich, they are probably a bit tired and a tad lazy. The music that they create will probably be affected by all this. But that doesnt mean it will not be great.

If you check Izzys 12 or 13 or 14 or i have no idea how many albums he released, its all there. The chorrd changes, the chord progressions, the mood swings, the brilliant -- and yet very uncomplicated -- songwriting craft and structure, the great little guitar riffs and licks... pretty much all the elements he brought to the table in GNR are all over his records.

Same for Slash. His last 3 solo records have absolutely monster riffs that are lost in bad songs with horrible structure. Unbelievable guitar playing lost in songs that are pretty lifeless for a lot of reasons.

Same for Axl. His melodic sense is intact, he is capable to create unbelievable vocal lines and sing them like no one else. His songs are full of drama, his delivery is unique, and even with his voice being more than a bit damaged, he still can sing.

Duff and Steven can rock the shit out of anything that Izzy, Axl and Slash come up with, and Duff also can write music.

These five guys complement each other like fucking nobody else. They know it because they have tried with other people and it didnt work.

I believe a huge reason -- if not the sole reason -- for these guys to have a reunion is to have the chance to write songs together again. And believe me, if they are all willing to do it, then it wont be just EASY to write songs.

It will be more than easy.

Because the songs will POUR out of them like fucking rain

[NineInchGun]

it would be a shame-faced cash grab, a trotting out of the 'hits' for casuals.

That's what the vast majority of tours by classic rock bands. No reason for Axl/Slash/Duff to turn down a piece of the action.

[Słash]

IF this lineup happens then they should call themselves Slash Featuring Axl Rose with the Constipators

[wasted]

It would be strange to see Slash and Duff playing in Nu GNR, maybe even laying down parts like Ron.

[Silent Jay]

Slash may play with a bottleneck in a Bad Obsession approach. Really not that hard to imagine.

Duff rocking at the end seemed like totally obvious, maybe Slash too. If reunion.

[oneway23]

Can't see Slash learning Better or The Blues, and don't see Axl realistically agreeing to anything without having some songs representing CD in the set, so...yeah

[IncitingChaos]

I don't think Axl will ask Slash to play any CD songs, but I think Slash will recommend playing one, and of the songs he will likely play...Better, Shacklers, or If the World

I think Izzy will be part of the reunion, I don't think he'll do a 3 hour show but he might do half.

[Roky]

The way people are arguing is that Axl and Slash dont want Izzy to be a part of it. Maybe its Izzy who will decide he doesnt want to and they cant convince him to?

Izzy might do 1 or 2 shows here and there but he left after appetite for his own reasons and I respect them reasons he doesn't enjoy the spot light and does his own thing.

Bullshit.

Izzy isn't opposed to taking part in a reunion in this interview from 2008 : http://chinese-democracy.blogspot.com.es/2008/11/exclusive-interview-with-izzy-stradlin.html

But if it were to occur, would you consider the possibility of a reunion?

Izzy: "Yes, of course. I wrote a great deal of that material."

Edited November 20, 2015 by Roky