GnR’s place in hard rock history?

[Lies They Tell]

It's really an undeniable fact that GnR was part of and arose from the "hair metal" scene in L.A. And they did take on certain aspects of that scene's image, sound and culture...especially early on. But to imply that they were just another hair band and somehow on the same level with bands like Poison, Ratt, Faster Pussycat, etc. is not a fair statement. GnR clearly had something that set them apart from their peers. Calling GnR just another hair metal band is like calling Zeppelin just another British bluinfluences, their look.es band.

What is that something that is so "clear"?

Does your level mean in record sales? Because then GNR are on a different level from say, Tora Tora. But in terms of their sound, their look, their lyrics, their pouty red lips in music videos, their blush and eye shadow, the screeching vocals, the babys and the sugars and the honeys and the songs and ballads about da bitches and songs about partying and drugs and their photo shoots with the obligatory bottle of jack, the dangling marlboros hanging out of the faux dazed faces of fake tough guys in spandex underwear and pants, the whole calculated thing with millions of dollars of major label support behind them? ..... that's all hair metal and a product of the times. Nothing new, nothing revolutionary, they didnt change music or bring back danger or any other press clipping nonsense. They were, in fact, just another band that broke thru to the mainstream. And by breaking thru, they used, as I said, the millions and millions of dollars of label support, marketing and money. All very calculated and a lot of it fabricated. They werent punk in anyway, shape or form. The biggest difference between them and a lot of other hair metal bands is the marketing.

The biggest difference between GNR and the other hair metal bands was the quality of the music. I'd love to be proven wrong. If someone can point me to a hair metal band that made music as great as GNR did, I'd be forever grateful.

I don't really agree with the GNR brought nothing new to music argument either. Sure, they weren't as revolutionary as many other bands. But I've never heard anything that would be comparable to November Rain. Sure, it's influenced by Queen, Elton John and many others. But in the end nothing before it and nothing after it has ever sounded quite like November Rain. It was something new. Certainly not something that any other hair metal band could have created.

I'm a bit of a self claimed expert in the genre.

You are correct. GnR was the best band of the genre. They were a step above of the other bands in terms of quality.

GnR were unique because they were heavier than most of the hair bands and pop rock bands....but they were poppier than the metal bands of the era.

Basically they were the late 80s and early 90s version of the "best" periods of bands like Van Halen and Aerosmith.

People on here hate them, but bands like Motley and Bon Jovi out out some great rock music. (if you like that type of music).

But GnR's music had a heavier and grittier edge to it than those bands did.

Skid Row was pretty close. Their first couple albums were really strong. They had the pop rock element, the ballads for the girls, and when they got heavy- they were way heavier than anything GnR ever did.

If you are looking for any band that is close to GnR, Skid Row would be the closest.

But GnR is definitely the best hard rock band of the 87-93 era.

I appreciate your answer. Not a big fan of Bon Jovi or Mötley Crue, but I've always liked Skid Row. Of course it's no Guns N' Roses, but they do have some rocking tunes.

[Apollo]

It's really an undeniable fact that GnR was part of and arose from the "hair metal" scene in L.A. And they did take on certain aspects of that scene's image, sound and culture...especially early on. But to imply that they were just another hair band and somehow on the same level with bands like Poison, Ratt, Faster Pussycat, etc. is not a fair statement. GnR clearly had something that set them apart from their peers. Calling GnR just another hair metal band is like calling Zeppelin just another British bluinfluences, their look.es band.

What is that something that is so "clear"?

Does your level mean in record sales? Because then GNR are on a different level from say, Tora Tora. But in terms of their sound, their look, their lyrics, their pouty red lips in music videos, their blush and eye shadow, the screeching vocals, the babys and the sugars and the honeys and the songs and ballads about da bitches and songs about partying and drugs and their photo shoots with the obligatory bottle of jack, the dangling marlboros hanging out of the faux dazed faces of fake tough guys in spandex underwear and pants, the whole calculated thing with millions of dollars of major label support behind them? ..... that's all hair metal and a product of the times. Nothing new, nothing revolutionary, they didnt change music or bring back danger or any other press clipping nonsense. They were, in fact, just another band that broke thru to the mainstream. And by breaking thru, they used, as I said, the millions and millions of dollars of label support, marketing and money. All very calculated and a lot of it fabricated. They werent punk in anyway, shape or form. The biggest difference between them and a lot of other hair metal bands is the marketing.

The biggest difference between GNR and the other hair metal bands was the quality of the music. I'd love to be proven wrong. If someone can point me to a hair metal band that made music as great as GNR did, I'd be forever grateful.

I don't really agree with the GNR brought nothing new to music argument either. Sure, they weren't as revolutionary as many other bands. But I've never heard anything that would be comparable to November Rain. Sure, it's influenced by Queen, Elton John and many others. But in the end nothing before it and nothing after it has ever sounded quite like November Rain. It was something new. Certainly not something that any other hair metal band could have created.

I'm a bit of a self claimed expert in the genre.

You are correct. GnR was the best band of the genre. They were a step above of the other bands in terms of quality.

GnR were unique because they were heavier than most of the hair bands and pop rock bands....but they were poppier than the metal bands of the era.

Basically they were the late 80s and early 90s version of the "best" periods of bands like Van Halen and Aerosmith.

People on here hate them, but bands like Motley and Bon Jovi out out some great rock music. (if you like that type of music).

But GnR's music had a heavier and grittier edge to it than those bands did.

Skid Row was pretty close. Their first couple albums were really strong. They had the pop rock element, the ballads for the girls, and when they got heavy- they were way heavier than anything GnR ever did.

If you are looking for any band that is close to GnR, Skid Row would be the closest.

But GnR is definitely the best hard rock band of the 87-93 era.

I appreciate your answer. Not a big fan of Bon Jovi or Mötley Crue, but I've always liked Skid Row. Of course it's no Guns N' Roses, but they do have some rocking tunes.

Skid matched the big three - youth gone wild/jungle......I remember you/scom.......18 and life/paradise city.

And in terms of epic ballads - nothing touching Nov Rain. But Wasted Time, Darkened Room, quicksand Jesus. Those were all more of the nov rain/estranged type ballad as opposed to the cheesy Every Rose type junk. If you like great ballads, check out Breakin Down - it's miles above any poison or warrant ballad.

As for the heavier stuff - a song like Monkey Business can hang with You Could Be Mine.

But Skid had way more filler than GnR did.

Shame they broke up. They sort of mirror the GnR story. Neither side has been as great without the other.

In terms of quality, in my book, GnR is the King of the genre.

Skid Row is easily second.

People in here seem to hate Motley. Mostly because Vince challenged Axl to a fight and our boy chickened out. Several times. So if Axl hates Vince, all of us must hate him as well lol.

But those boys put out some great rock back in the day.

Their first album still holds up today.

And the album after that (until the last decade) would have 2-3 great rock songs.

Kick start My Heart, Dr Feelgood, Girls Girls Girls, home sweet home, Don't go Away Mad, shout at the devil, Looks that Kill. Etc.

But way too many fillers On every album. And turned into a dreadful live band. Vince got fat and lazy and couldn't get off the drugs and booze. He turned into a complete joke. And Sixx is an arrogant pretentious douchebag.

But....believe it or not...over the last decade Crüe was a bigger draw in the US than Axl was.

[SlashElvisTCB]

Honestly the Rolling Bones or Beatles don't hold a candle to GNR. Both had decent songs, but I'd trade the Beatles, Led Zep & The Rolling Bones of their collective catalogues Just to have Paradise City, let alone all the other great GNR songs. I still find it very hard to believe GNR were influenced by these bands. Led Zep is another alright band, but GNR blows them out of the water too, Jimmy Page is a nice guy and all but I'm not the biggest fan of his work and Stairway to Heaven and Immigrant song are probably the only thing I've ever left on the radio longer than 4 seconds of their music.

Edited December 23, 2015 by SlashElvisTCB

[SlashElvisTCB]

Skid matched the big three - youth gone wild/jungle......I remember you/scom.......18 and life/paradise city.

And in terms of epic ballads - nothing touching Nov Rain. But Wasted Time, Darkened Room, quicksand Jesus. Those were all more of the nov rain/estranged type ballad as opposed to the cheesy Every Rose type junk. If you like great ballads, check out Breakin Down - it's miles above any poison or warrant ballad.

As for the heavier stuff - a song like Monkey Business can hang with You Could Be Mine.

But Skid had way more filler than GnR did.

Shame they broke up. They sort of mirror the GnR story. Neither side has been as great without the other.

In terms of quality, in my book, GnR is the King of the genre.

Skid Row is easily second.

People in here seem to hate Motley. Mostly because Vince challenged Axl to a fight and our boy chickened out. Several times. So if Axl hates Vince, all of us must hate him as well lol.

But those boys put out some great rock back in the day.

Their first album still holds up today.

And the album after that (until the last decade) would have 2-3 great rock songs.

Kick start My Heart, Dr Feelgood, Girls Girls Girls, home sweet home, Don't go Away Mad, shout at the devil, Looks that Kill. Etc.

But way too many fillers On every album. And turned into a dreadful live band. Vince got fat and lazy and couldn't get off the drugs and booze. He turned into a complete joke. And Sixx is an arrogant pretentious douchebag.

But....believe it or not...over the last decade Crüe was a bigger draw in the US than Axl was.

People wouldn't happen to hate Vince Neal & Motley Crue because Vince Neal killed a person in a drunken haze and is such a blob of a person would they? They're all pretty arrogant.

My stance on Motley Crue is that I love Kick Start My Heart, Home Sweet Home, Wild Side & Girls, Girls Girls, and that while they all are douche bags every now and then, they do make some decent music, but they do get old and don't hold their listening value after 10 minutes unlike GNR where I can zone out to complete albums at a time and be in my own world. I figure let God sort out Vince Neal, I'd probably go see Motley if the tickets were decently priced. GNR are consistently good no matter if its a hard rock song or a ballad.

Edited December 23, 2015 by SlashElvisTCB

[DR DOOM]

If gnr are punk, ian mackaye and jello biafra are rolling over in their graves.

And they're not dead yet

F U C K I N G A.

And if " people" listened to a Fugazi or DK's/Lard/whatever Jello fronted album they sure as shit wouldn't call it punk...they didn't have spikey hair!

Anarchy For Sale/Chickenshit Conformist

[Len Cnut]

How the fuck can you make 3 or 4 albums and be top ten? Or even have 'potential' to be top 10? 'Cuz if they carried on for another 6 albums like that then they would be', do you know how big a fuckin' leap that is, how can you possibly estimate as to the quality of albums that never fuckin' existed, it's absolutely ridiculous.

Honestly the Rolling Bones or Beatles don't hold a candle to GNR. Both had decent songs, but I'd trade the Beatles, Led Zep & The Rolling Bones of their collective catalogues Just to have Paradise City, let alone all the other great GNR songs. I still find it very hard to believe GNR were influenced by these bands. Led Zep is another alright band, but GNR blows them out of the water too, Jimmy Page is a nice guy and all but I'm not the biggest fan of his work and Stairway to Heaven and Immigrant song are probably the only thing I've ever left on the radio longer than 4 seconds of their music.

You're a dick Sorry but you just are. A massive cock. And not even a hard on either, just a limp one. Every single band you've named (and i don't even like Led Zeppelin) absolutely piss all over GnR who are a pale derivative of past genres that descended into a really schlocky and depressing parody of all the excesses of rock n roll and none of the wit and cheek and style that those that made those excesses seem somehow valuable when indulged in by others, there are a handful of GnR songs that have stood the test of time but generally speaking, to anyone who isn't a GnR fan, their music is pretty cheesy.

It's alright liking something and thinking it's the dogs bollocks but you don't have to dream up unrealistic ideas about how they are the best in the world, you're allowed to be a Freddie Prinze Jnr fan but when you consider that a basis for claiming him to be comparable as an actor to Laurence Olivier it's at that point that you are talking like a dunce.

As a stand alone thing there is a lot about GnR that is valuable but as a fan you do them an immense disservice when comparing them to greatness cuz it makes them look shitter than they are. 'I'd trade The Stones and The Beatles for GnR', if you traded GnR for The Stones you wouldn't have most of what was good about GnR existing in the first place

Edited December 23, 2015 by Len B'stard

[SlashElvisTCB]

How the fuck can you make 3 or 4 albums and be top ten? Or even have 'potential' to be top 10? 'Cuz if they carried on for another 6 albums like that then they would be', do you know how big a fuckin' leap that is, how can you possibly estimate as to the quality of albums that never fuckin' existed, it's absolutely ridiculous.

Honestly the Rolling Bones or Beatles don't hold a candle to GNR. Both had decent songs, but I'd trade the Beatles, Led Zep & The Rolling Bones of their collective catalogues Just to have Paradise City, let alone all the other great GNR songs. I still find it very hard to believe GNR were influenced by these bands. Led Zep is another alright band, but GNR blows them out of the water too, Jimmy Page is a nice guy and all but I'm not the biggest fan of his work and Stairway to Heaven and Immigrant song are probably the only thing I've ever left on the radio longer than 4 seconds of their music.

You're a dick Sorry but you just are. A massive cock. And not even a hard on either, just a limp one. Every single band you've named (and i don't even like Led Zeppelin) absolutely piss all over GnR who are a pale derivative of past genres that descended into a really schlocky and depressing parody of all the excesses of rock n roll and none of the wit and cheek and style that those that made those excesses seem somehow valuable when indulged in by others, there are a handful of GnR songs that have stood the test of time but generally speaking, to anyone who isn't a GnR fan, their music is pretty cheesy.

It's alright liking something and thinking it's the dogs bollocks but you don't have to dream up unrealistic ideas about how they are the best in the world, you're allowed to be a Freddie Prinze Jnr fan but when you consider that a basis for claiming him to be comparable as an actor to Laurence Olivier it's at that point that you are talking like a dunce.

As a stand alone thing there is a lot about GnR that is valuable but as a fan you do them an immense disservice when comparing them to greatness cuz it makes them look shitter than they are. 'I'd trade The Stones and The Beatles for GnR', if you traded GnR for The Stones you wouldn't have most of what was good about GnR existing in the first place

Just think, I'm such a massive cock while being limp, imagine what its like when I'm HARD! cuz when a silky (you) rubs my knob it gets fuckin hard! like an adult male holding an onion, now that's fuckin' hard!. Honestly I quite enjoyed your assessment of me and I full heartedly take it as a compliment, because I made some thought provoking comments and got a reaction. I just want you to tell me why The Stones, Beatles & Led Zep are worthy of holding any candle next to GNR, and don't tell me stuff about them that your parents told you to think about them.

I run a strip club with a customer operated Juke Box and do you know how many times Led Zep, The Beatles or Stones get played? NEVER and nobody requests them and nobody plays them. GNR always gets played and people have fun when its played. The shit GNR made is way deeper and emotional than anything the Rolling Bones or Led Zep could do, they had the street depth in the lyrics, a crazy unpredictable frontman with a set of lungs, a rock & roll icon as their guitarist with an image as big as his sound.

Forgive me if I didn't made a proper argument for GNR as ONE of the Greats, Furthermore The Beatles are overrated, there were so many bands that were much better, I'm not saying they weren't significant or didn't have some good songs, they were more famous as the face of drug use as much as Bob Marley is the face of marijuana, which brings me to this question for you: How many people today actually know Bob Marley for his music? 9 out of 10 know him from seeing his image with marijuana leaves on a t shirt at Hot Topic & Spencers in every mall across the United States smoking pot and having a guitar in his hands, they don't know ANY of his songs, they just know that he smokes pot and has a guitar.

On the back of that, the Beatles became more famous to the masses for their drug fueled song writing and weird far out there thoughts & antics and ridiculous bed inns for peace than their actual music, I do like the song Revolution though and Can't Buy Me Love, Hey Jude (when sung by Elvis). I went on to respect George Harrison much more when he played with Roy Orbison in the Traveling Willburys and Ringo Starr is the butt of every rock & roll joke, he's always in the corner saying "I was a Beatle too! what about me? can I be famous too!".

I personally don't "get" why people always put The Stones, Beatles or Led Zep on such a pedestal as if to say that GNR doesn't deserve to be mentioned along side them as among the greats of Rock & Roll, GNR certainly did at least as much as Led Zep to be among the greats if not in my opinion explode upon it. I'm not doubting their influence, but on the back of that the Beatles, Stones & Led Zep have Elvis to thank for opening the door for Rock & Roll, Elvis truly invented Rock & Roll as we know it today, yes there were songs that were considered rock just barely prior to Elvis but Elvis put all of those influences into one and even came up with his own recipe to create rock & roll as we know it. Before Elvis there was horseback riding, after Elvis there were cars that could do 200mph. He tore those barriers down.

As for Led Zeps influence on GNR, Its nice to appreciate your influences and things that helped create you, but its like my great grandma, I'm thankful that she made my grandma and in turn that helped create me, but it still doesn't change the fact she was a slut with her ass up in the ditch after bar close.

Edited December 23, 2015 by SlashElvisTCB

[Len Cnut]

Shut up you fuckin divvy 'Guns n Roses are better than The Beatles because the jukebox in my wanking shop plays GnR more' All that says is that men like to stroke themselves off to GnR more.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Len B'stard

[DieselDaisy]

I personally don't "get" why people always put The Stones, Beatles or Led Zep on such a pedestal as if to say that GNR doesn't deserve to be mentioned along side them as among the greats of Rock & Roll, GNR certainly did at least as much as Led Zep to be among the greats if not in my opinion explode upon it. I'm not doubting their influence, but on the back of that the Beatles, Stones & Led Zep have Elvis to thank for opening the door for Rock & Roll, Elvis truly invented Rock & Roll as we know it today, yes there were songs that were considered rock just barely prior to Elvis but Elvis put all of those influences into one and even came up with his own recipe to create rock & roll as we know it. Before Elvis there was horseback riding, after Elvis there were cars that could do 200mph. He tore those barriers down.

You are talking about genealogy there - NB not gynecology! I am not going to talk you out of an Elvis obsession and Elvis's influence as I believe that all myself, but it is also true that the British bands mentioned were a vital link to Guns. It is much harder to see Slash or Izzy delving into 1950s Elvis 7"s than it would be Led Zeppelin 4 or Sticky Fingers (we are making a bit of a generational leap of course as the Beatles had all their success prior to Zeppelin's peak, and the Stones a good deal of their success). Tyler sums it up best in Aerosmith's autobiography when he said (paraphrasing), ''we were all American kids listening to British bands playing American music''. He also said, ''there was literally no American bands''. He was of course referring to The Stones and Beatles there. In truth the British bands had a great advantage over their American counterparts in that generation (let's put it at 1965) as they did not have the emotive and socio-political baggage of racial segregation.

[Rovim]

Shut up you fuckin divvy 'Guns n Roses are better than The Beatles because the jukebox in my wanking shop plays GnR more' All that says is that men like to stroke themselves off to GnR more.

But how about beating around the bush a little? no? lol.

[smoking guns]

I thought It's So Easy was their most punk type song.

[vikfrode]

I think GNR should be ranked high in the history of rock, and espesially in hard rock! I think in the top ten in hard rock. Just think about the songs gnr have made; in my mind they have made 10 of the 20 best hard rock songs ever! ????

[Rovim]

I think GNR should be ranked high in the history of rock, and espesially in hard rock! I think in the top ten in hard rock. Just think about the songs gnr have made; in my mind they have made 10 of the 20 best hard rock songs ever!

Yeah, there were some classic tunes they were responsible for. Still not on the level of The Who or The Experience imo, but one of the best for me.

They couldn't hold it together for more than one consistent album. Illusions is great in it's own way though. Sprawling and full of fillers which are also cool for the most part.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Rovim

[SlashElvisTCB]

I personally don't "get" why people always put The Stones, Beatles or Led Zep on such a pedestal as if to say that GNR doesn't deserve to be mentioned along side them as among the greats of Rock & Roll, GNR certainly did at least as much as Led Zep to be among the greats if not in my opinion explode upon it. I'm not doubting their influence, but on the back of that the Beatles, Stones & Led Zep have Elvis to thank for opening the door for Rock & Roll, Elvis truly invented Rock & Roll as we know it today, yes there were songs that were considered rock just barely prior to Elvis but Elvis put all of those influences into one and even came up with his own recipe to create rock & roll as we know it. Before Elvis there was horseback riding, after Elvis there were cars that could do 200mph. He tore those barriers down.

You are talking about genealogy there - NB not gynecology! I am not going to talk you out of an Elvis obsession and Elvis's influence as I believe that all myself, but it is also true that the British bands mentioned were a vital link to Guns. It is much harder to see Slash or Izzy delving into 1950s Elvis 7"s than it would be Led Zeppelin 4 or Sticky Fingers (we are making a bit of a generational leap of course as the Beatles had all their success prior to Zeppelin's peak, and the Stones a good deal of their success). Tyler sums it up best in Aerosmith's autobiography when he said (paraphrasing), ''we were all American kids listening to British bands playing American music''. He also said, ''there was literally no American bands''. He was of course referring to The Stones and Beatles there. In truth the British bands had a great advantage over their American counterparts in that generation (let's put it at 1965) as they did not have the emotive and socio-political baggage of racial segregation.

As I stated to Mr Puffy chest in my previous post, I don't discount that each the Beatles, Stones & Zep had good songs, I'm just saying that I don't get the aura of the mindset that makes them so untouchable when somebody brings up GNR next to them, GNR is the natural evolution of a better band than the Stones its very foolish to discount what GNR did and what they meant in their day. I just don't get the hype of those bands, had good songs but nothing I'd buy and certainly nothing I could ever nail a chick to. GNR most definitely was the Led Zep of their day, and the Beatles of their day. GNR changed rock, they were never in the same league as Poison or the other hair/glam bands, their music mostly in part to Axl Rose being walking dynamite in both his lyrics, performances and persona with Slash's Rock riffs & soaring leads that cut the mold at a time when Eddie Van Halen wanna bes & glam bullshit ran rampant doing tapping & over the top gimmicks over musical quality ruled the day.

GNR's music was honest and it got to the point and it most importantly spoke to the soul, there was structure to the songs and solos that grabbed you and riffs that made you want to play guitar. I'm sure that everyone IN old and in the most Current GNR would disagree with me, but apples to apples not taking into account influence, GNR are a more listenable & better band than the 3 previously stated bands across the board 3 ways from Sunday. Dare I also say that GNR were better than Queen, though Queen had some good songs. Freddie was talented but half of the time I hear them on the radio and I think "what the fuck was he thinking".

I honestly think that if they kept going in the 90s and figured out their differences then that they had they'd still have the ability to be as big as AC/DC. AC/DC has had a formula that they stuck to for years and they made it work because most of the guys are pretty egoless compared to other bands.

As for Slash & Izzy doing Elvis, they did do Heartbreak Hotel, and Elvis is Axl's favorite singer. The bluesy stuff Elvis did throughout his career is right up Slash's alley since Slash is a blues based rock guitarist, plus Elvis did MANY styles of music, take your pick of 1100 songs!. Can you imagine if GNR would have covered Burnin' Love? that'd have Rocked!. Slash could have done many of Elvis' songs, Steam Roller Blues is a great one. What Elvis influenced upon the music scene was breaking down the barriers & walls to rock and to musical freedom, plus his energy as a singer will never be matched.

Edited December 24, 2015 by SlashElvisTCB

[DieselDaisy]

I personally don't "get" why people always put The Stones, Beatles or Led Zep on such a pedestal as if to say that GNR doesn't deserve to be mentioned along side them as among the greats of Rock & Roll, GNR certainly did at least as much as Led Zep to be among the greats if not in my opinion explode upon it. I'm not doubting their influence, but on the back of that the Beatles, Stones & Led Zep have Elvis to thank for opening the door for Rock & Roll, Elvis truly invented Rock & Roll as we know it today, yes there were songs that were considered rock just barely prior to Elvis but Elvis put all of those influences into one and even came up with his own recipe to create rock & roll as we know it. Before Elvis there was horseback riding, after Elvis there were cars that could do 200mph. He tore those barriers down.

You are talking about genealogy there - NB not gynecology! I am not going to talk you out of an Elvis obsession and Elvis's influence as I believe that all myself, but it is also true that the British bands mentioned were a vital link to Guns. It is much harder to see Slash or Izzy delving into 1950s Elvis 7"s than it would be Led Zeppelin 4 or Sticky Fingers (we are making a bit of a generational leap of course as the Beatles had all their success prior to Zeppelin's peak, and the Stones a good deal of their success). Tyler sums it up best in Aerosmith's autobiography when he said (paraphrasing), ''we were all American kids listening to British bands playing American music''. He also said, ''there was literally no American bands''. He was of course referring to The Stones and Beatles there. In truth the British bands had a great advantage over their American counterparts in that generation (let's put it at 1965) as they did not have the emotive and socio-political baggage of racial segregation.

As I stated to Mr Puffy chest in my previous post, I don't discount that each the Beatles, Stones & Zep had good songs, I'm just saying that I don't get the aura of the mindset that makes them so untouchable when somebody brings up GNR next to them, GNR is the natural evolution of a better band than the Stones its very foolish to discount what GNR did and what they meant in their day. I just don't get the hype of those bands, had good songs but nothing I'd buy and certainly nothing I could ever nail a chick to. GNR most definitely was the Led Zep of their day, and the Beatles of their day. GNR changed rock, they were never in the same league as Poison or the other hair/glam bands, their music mostly in part to Axl Rose being walking dynamite in both his lyrics, performances and persona with Slash's Rock riffs & soaring leads that cut the mold at a time when Eddie Van Halen wanna bes & glam bullshit ran rampant doing tapping & over the top gimmicks over musical quality ruled the day.

GNR's music was honest and it got to the point and it most importantly spoke to the soul, there was structure to the songs and solos that grabbed you and riffs that made you want to play guitar. I'm sure that everyone IN old and in the most Current GNR would disagree with me, but apples to apples not taking into account influence, GNR are a more listenable & better band than the 3 previously stated bands across the board 3 ways from Sunday. Dare I also say that GNR were better than Queen, though Queen had some good songs. Freddie was talented but half of the time I hear them on the radio and I think "what the fuck was he thinking".

I honestly think that if they kept going in the 90s and figured out their differences then that they had they'd still have the ability to be as big as AC/DC. AC/DC has had a formula that they stuck to for years and they made it work because most of the guys are pretty egoless compared to other bands.

I think you are overrating GN'R seriously at the expense of the three bands mention. Yes, they produced one great hard rock record (Appetite) - the equal of something like AC/DC's Back In Black or even Deep Purple's Machine Head - and a few decent songs thereafter, but The Beatles and The Stones made music which was truly timeless. They (Beatles especially) created entirely novel ways of writing, playing and recording music. They evoked and imprinted themselves upon their times: counter-culture, politics, fashion and film. People like Lennon and Jagger became radical spokesperson for a generation. And last but not least, they recorded an abundance of masterpieces. Guns have one masterpiece and that is alright; to have recorded an album as good as Appetite automatically assures their fame and status - that is fine. But The Beatles and Stones did not just produce one masterpiece but a plethora of them: Rubber Soul, Revolver, Pepper, White Album, Abbey Road, Aftermath, Beggars, Let it Bleed, Fingers, Exile, Some Girls et al. (and that is to disregard their singles and numerous 'overlooked' or 'underrated' albums).

[Strange Broue]

How the fuck can you make 3 or 4 albums and be top ten? Or even have 'potential' to be top 10? 'Cuz if they carried on for another 6 albums like that then they would be', do you know how big a fuckin' leap that is, how can you possibly estimate as to the quality of albums that never fuckin' existed, it's absolutely ridiculous.

Honestly the Rolling Bones or Beatles don't hold a candle to GNR. Both had decent songs, but I'd trade the Beatles, Led Zep & The Rolling Bones of their collective catalogues Just to have Paradise City, let alone all the other great GNR songs. I still find it very hard to believe GNR were influenced by these bands. Led Zep is another alright band, but GNR blows them out of the water too, Jimmy Page is a nice guy and all but I'm not the biggest fan of his work and Stairway to Heaven and Immigrant song are probably the only thing I've ever left on the radio longer than 4 seconds of their music.

You're a dick Sorry but you just are. A massive cock. And not even a hard on either, just a limp one. Every single band you've named (and i don't even like Led Zeppelin) absolutely piss all over GnR who are a pale derivative of past genres that descended into a really schlocky and depressing parody of all the excesses of rock n roll and none of the wit and cheek and style that those that made those excesses seem somehow valuable when indulged in by others, there are a handful of GnR songs that have stood the test of time but generally speaking, to anyone who isn't a GnR fan, their music is pretty cheesy.

It's alright liking something and thinking it's the dogs bollocks but you don't have to dream up unrealistic ideas about how they are the best in the world, you're allowed to be a Freddie Prinze Jnr fan but when you consider that a basis for claiming him to be comparable as an actor to Laurence Olivier it's at that point that you are talking like a dunce.

As a stand alone thing there is a lot about GnR that is valuable but as a fan you do them an immense disservice when comparing them to greatness cuz it makes them look shitter than they are. 'I'd trade The Stones and The Beatles for GnR', if you traded GnR for The Stones you wouldn't have most of what was good about GnR existing in the first place

The absoulute irony is that GNR were influenced by the Stones and Led Zep as fuck

No Stones, No Zep, no GNR

i wonder if he posted seriously or just joking

[HubbaBubba]

Some of these arguments are getting awfully homoerotic. Must be all the talk of glam rock.

[SlashElvisTCB]

I think you are overrating GN'R seriously at the expense of the three bands mention. Yes, they produced one great hard rock record (Appetite) - the equal of something like AC/DC's Back In Black or even Deep Purple's Machine Head - and a few decent songs thereafter, but The Beatles and The Stones made music which was truly timeless. They (Beatles especially) created entirely novel ways of writing, playing and recording music. They evoked and imprinted themselves upon their times: counter-culture, politics, fashion and film. People like Lennon and Jagger became radical spokesperson for a generation. And last but not least, they recorded an abundance of masterpieces. Guns have one masterpiece and that is alright; to have recorded an album as good as Appetite automatically assures their fame and status - that is fine. But The Beatles and Stones did not just produce one masterpiece but a plethora of them: Rubber Soul, Revolver, Pepper, White Album, Abbey Road, Aftermath, Beggars, Let it Bleed, Fingers, Exile, Some Girls et al. (and that is to disregard their singles and numerous 'overlooked' or 'underrated' albums).

See that's where you're going wrong. You think Appetite is their one great album and you're naming off a bunch of Beatles shit, just because you name it doesn't make it good or note worthy. Appetite is a great album (BEST SELLING DEBUT ALBUM OF ALL TIME) and it was pretty much everyones entry into Guns N' Roses, but for me that's just where the journey begins, The Illusions albums had much more of an effect on me and made me pick up a guitar. Its just like all the people who think Elvis was all about Blue Suede Shoes & Jailhouse Rock, good songs in their own right but nothing like the master pieces Elvis did later on that don't get any credit. You seem to be a casual listener to music, only listening to what the DJ's have time to play. When I hear potential in a recording artist I delve myself into their whole collection and sometimes I find shit and sometimes I find gold, not just their radio hits, so if you're going to judge somebody off of what the DJ had time to play then that is a pretty bland review.

I absolutely will disregard the Beatles & Stones, in my world they are highly overrated even if they influenced GNR at all, the other day on Mancow he had a person on there who was naming off the 50 greatest Stones songs and I was like wtf they had more than 3 great songs?. Aerosmith had a bigger impact on the sound of GNR than the Beatles or Stones did and you can hear that. The Beatles have had time on their side, they rode Elvis' coat tails and did a bunch of political bullshit to promote their interests and on top of all that John Lennon was an egotistical dick, thought he was bigger than Jesus, they had some decent songs but lord have mercy their writing was better than their execution most of the time and for a lot of that writing it made no fucking sense. The best part is that my opinion that has no bearing on anyone but myself pisses you off, its also hilarious that it pisses you off even though I said they were good bands just overrated and GNR is great enough to stand next to them in any serious music conversation. GNR were not a flash in the pan band, they released a ton of hits and could have been even bigger than they are now had they not broke up and lost 20 years of momentum.

And another thing, I've never been on a music fan forum in my life that had little to no fans on it, A lot of you are about the whiniest cunts I've ever seen on any music review & comment section, I never thought I'd live to see the day that a Youtube video comment section would have more credibility than a fan forum. There are some decent people here and I don't want to offend them, but about half the people here aren't really fans and are the epitome of internet cupcakes trying to piss the real fans off.

Edited December 24, 2015 by SlashElvisTCB

[DieselDaisy]

See that's where you're going wrong. You think Appetite is their one great album and you're naming off a bunch of Beatles shit, just because you name it doesn't make it good or note worthy.

I do not believe I ever made the claim that The Beatles are considered 'note worthy' because I 'named a bunch of Beatles shit'. I could immediately cite just about every 'top 100 album' list ever, which usually have Revolver or Pepper in top spot!

The Illusions albums had much more of an effect on me and made me pick up a guitar. Its just like all the people who think Elvis was all about Blue Suede Shoes & Jailhouse Rock, good songs in their own right but nothing like the master pieces Elvis did later on that don't get any credit. You seem to be a casual listener to music, only listening to what the DJ's have time to play. When I hear potential in a recording artist I delve myself into their whole collection and sometimes I find shit and sometimes I find gold, not just their radio hits, so if you're going to judge somebody off of what the DJ had time to play then that is a pretty bland review.

I do not rate Illusion so high, over-valuing Appetite, because Illusion is not a DJ's choice. I do so because Illusion is packed with shitty filler and is ruined with overdubs. Besides, did not Guns reach their commercial peak with November Rain (thus completely invalidating your argument)?

I absolutely will disregard the Beatles & Stones, in my world they are highly overrated even if they influenced GNR at all, the other day on Mancow he had a person on there who was naming off the 50 greatest Stones songs and I was like wtf they had more than 3 great songs?. Aerosmith had a bigger impact on the sound of GNR than the Beatles or Stones did and you can hear that.

No you can't. Used to Love Her is basically a remake of Dead Flowers. Patience also imitates Keith Richards' Gram Parsons era. Brownstone rips off the lyrics off of Sister Morphine. Bad Obsession rips off Honky Tonk Woman. Besides, Aerosmith themselves were ripping off the Stones. So even if GNR were ripping off the Toxic Twins they were inherently ripping off the stones.

The Beatles have had time on their side, they rode Elvis' coat tails

No they didn't. They were influenced by Elvis, but then they were also influenced by a lot of other influences such as Motown, Phil Spector, English Music Hall (not to mention the other rock n roll acts such as Chuck and Little Richard).

and did a bunch of political bullshit to promote their interests

Considering Lennon's political meanderings were basically tantamount to commercial suicide, this does not add up.

and GNR is great enough to stand next to them in any serious music conversation. GNR were not a flash in the pan band, they released a ton of hits and could have been even bigger than they are now had they not broke up and lost 20 years of momentum.

In a 'serious music conversation' GNR is an embarrassing band liked by inbred wrestling fans with mullets. It pains me to say this because I am a fan of gnr but it is the truth.

[Free Bird]

See that's where you're going wrong. You think Appetite is their one great album and you're naming off a bunch of Beatles shit, just because you name it doesn't make it good or note worthy.

I do not believe I ever made the claim that The Beatles are considered 'note worthy' because I 'named a bunch of Beatles shit'. I could immediately cite just about every 'top 100 album' list ever, which usually have Revolver or Pepper in top spot!

The Illusions albums had much more of an effect on me and made me pick up a guitar. Its just like all the people who think Elvis was all about Blue Suede Shoes & Jailhouse Rock, good songs in their own right but nothing like the master pieces Elvis did later on that don't get any credit. You seem to be a casual listener to music, only listening to what the DJ's have time to play. When I hear potential in a recording artist I delve myself into their whole collection and sometimes I find shit and sometimes I find gold, not just their radio hits, so if you're going to judge somebody off of what the DJ had time to play then that is a pretty bland review.

I do not rate Illusion so high, over-valuing Appetite, because Illusion is not a DJ's choice. I do so because Illusion is packed with shitty filler and is ruined with overdubs. Besides, did not Guns reach their commercial peak with November Rain (thus completely invalidating your argument)?

I absolutely will disregard the Beatles & Stones, in my world they are highly overrated even if they influenced GNR at all, the other day on Mancow he had a person on there who was naming off the 50 greatest Stones songs and I was like wtf they had more than 3 great songs?. Aerosmith had a bigger impact on the sound of GNR than the Beatles or Stones did and you can hear that.

No you can't. Used to Love Her is basically a remake of Dead Flowers. Patience also imitates Keith Richards' Gram Parsons era. Brownstone rips off the lyrics off of Sister Morphine. Bad Obsession rips off Honky Tonk Woman. Besides, Aerosmith themselves were ripping off the Stones. So even if GNR were ripping off the Toxic Twins they were inherently ripping off the stones.

The Beatles have had time on their side, they rode Elvis' coat tails

No they didn't. They were influenced by Elvis, but then they were also influenced by a lot of other influences such as Motown, Phil Spector, English Music Hall (not to mention the other rock n roll acts such as Chuck and Little Richard).

and did a bunch of political bullshit to promote their interests

Considering Lennon's political meanderings were basically tantamount to commercial suicide, this does not add up.

and GNR is great enough to stand next to them in any serious music conversation. GNR were not a flash in the pan band, they released a ton of hits and could have been even bigger than they are now had they not broke up and lost 20 years of momentum.

In a 'serious music conversation' GNR is an embarrassing band liked by inbred wrestling fans with mullets. It pains me to say this because I am a fan of gnr but it is the truth.

Nah, I don't know man. I don't think your last point is true. Even fans of classic rock like Stones, Clapton, Dire Straits who may not like Guns aggressivity, or Axl's voice do like some songs in their catalog. Don't Cry, November Rain, 14 Years, Dust n Bones, You're Crazy (Lies), Nightrain, KOHD...

They didn't do for rockmusic as much as Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin or Hendrix but they were the biggest band on the planet for a short period of time. And rightly without a doubt.

[Apollo]

Volcano2 has erupted.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Apollo

[luciusfunk]

If GNR were an ice cream flavor, what would it be?

Tears and disappointment.

[SlashElvisTCB]

See that's where you're going wrong. You think Appetite is their one great album and you're naming off a bunch of Beatles shit, just because you name it doesn't make it good or note worthy.

I do not believe I ever made the claim that The Beatles are considered 'note worthy' because I 'named a bunch of Beatles shit'. I could immediately cite just about every 'top 100 album' list ever, which usually have Revolver or Pepper in top spot!

The Illusions albums had much more of an effect on me and made me pick up a guitar. Its just like all the people who think Elvis was all about Blue Suede Shoes & Jailhouse Rock, good songs in their own right but nothing like the master pieces Elvis did later on that don't get any credit. You seem to be a casual listener to music, only listening to what the DJ's have time to play. When I hear potential in a recording artist I delve myself into their whole collection and sometimes I find shit and sometimes I find gold, not just their radio hits, so if you're going to judge somebody off of what the DJ had time to play then that is a pretty bland review.

I do not rate Illusion so high, over-valuing Appetite, because Illusion is not a DJ's choice. I do so because Illusion is packed with shitty filler and is ruined with overdubs. Besides, did not Guns reach their commercial peak with November Rain (thus completely invalidating your argument)?

I absolutely will disregard the Beatles & Stones, in my world they are highly overrated even if they influenced GNR at all, the other day on Mancow he had a person on there who was naming off the 50 greatest Stones songs and I was like wtf they had more than 3 great songs?. Aerosmith had a bigger impact on the sound of GNR than the Beatles or Stones did and you can hear that.

No you can't. Used to Love Her is basically a remake of Dead Flowers. Patience also imitates Keith Richards' Gram Parsons era. Brownstone rips off the lyrics off of Sister Morphine. Bad Obsession rips off Honky Tonk Woman. Besides, Aerosmith themselves were ripping off the Stones. So even if GNR were ripping off the Toxic Twins they were inherently ripping off the stones.

The Beatles have had time on their side, they rode Elvis' coat tails

No they didn't. They were influenced by Elvis, but then they were also influenced by a lot of other influences such as Motown, Phil Spector, English Music Hall (not to mention the other rock n roll acts such as Chuck and Little Richard).

and did a bunch of political bullshit to promote their interests

Considering Lennon's political meanderings were basically tantamount to commercial suicide, this does not add up.

and GNR is great enough to stand next to them in any serious music conversation. GNR were not a flash in the pan band, they released a ton of hits and could have been even bigger than they are now had they not broke up and lost 20 years of momentum.

In a 'serious music conversation' GNR is an embarrassing band liked by inbred wrestling fans with mullets. It pains me to say this because I am a fan of gnr but it is the truth.

Going to hit you on several talking points here:

#1. Illusions Albums Not DJ's Choice: I'm 28 almost 29 next month and I remember as a 6 year old grabbing the remote & watching MTV and seeing the Estranged Music video (1993) and that song forever being engrained into my mind, it got a ton of air play along with November Rain they even showed how they made the videos and GNR was in great shape, Don't Cry, Garden Of Eden, The Garden, Welcome To The Jungle (still very relevant in 93), Dead Horse, heck even "Since I Don't Have You" got played, point being GNR were still very relevant in the Illusions & Post Illusions era in a time where "Grunge" supposedly ruled and I heard these all on radio & seen em on tv. Also I think you're forgetting a little song called "You Could Be Mine" made famous to most casual GNR fans as the song in Terminator 2 Judgment Day while Edward Furlong is riding his dirt bike to the mall. I'm honestly not sure if you've lived through that era or not, I was 5 years old when the GNR love hit me and its stuck ever since and I remember it like yesterday. As for todays Illusions legacy, Civil War, Knockin' On Heavens Door, You Could Be Mine, November Rain, Estranged, Dead Horse, Don't Cry STILL get air play! Especially in light of the recent reunion rumors.

#2. Beatles Didn't Ride Elvis' Coat tails: They did, because quite frankly everyone after Elvis did to some extent, he broke down the walls & barriers to the establishment & created the anarchy that IS Rock & Roll an essence that lives on today, from shaking his ass and singing wild & going against the grain of everything that was to almost being arrested & fined as well as put on a FBI watch list just for playing Rock & Roll. Just look at Music prior to Elvis and look at music after he broke loose, it was fucking boring and it became great after Elvis almost got shut down for rocking the fuck out like none before him. Do you think the Beatles would have been as free to do the kind of antics they did without EP first knocking those barriers down? John Lennon even said himself the following quotes: "Before Elvis there was nothing" and "Nothing really affected me until I heard Elvis. If there hadn't been an Elvis, there wouldn't have been the Beatles.". You're right they didn't ride his coat tails...(sarcasm), he practically carried them in his hands. Did I also mention that Elvis inspired Led Zep as well ;-)

#3. GNR Liked by Inbred Wrestling fans: I think you're confused and thinking about Lynyrd Skynyrd, not too many red neck/inbreds who take a liking to GNR even though they had vast appeal to the masses. Motley Crue was more the band for Wrestling fans.

Honestly I think you're missing the most important point about music, its how music makes you feel, if it feels good to you then that's all that matters. Unlike you I don't care a flying fuck what a DJ's thoughts about a song are as long as I personally like it and if it he likes it too then that's cool, and if he hates it and doesn't play it then fuck him. Also music is very subjective, anything goes in writing & composing a song there are no right or wrong answers only if it feels good to someone is all that counts, so don't be a pussy and don't feel embarrassed talking about a band that you enjoy to ANY musical peer. Anyone who studies music knows that what is taught is "Music Theory" and its just that, an opinion with a subjective guide meant to steer somebody in a general direction, the sooner you realize this the sooner you'll feel less embarrassed to talk to rational music minds about music you like.

[foghat43]

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This was the Stones on the verge of being a real hard rock power house. You can clearly see the influence on GNR...

​Just wanted to say "thank you" for posting this! This prompted me to start digging around on youtube for some other stuff from that 1972 tour. Fortunately there are some complete shows/bootlegs on youtube from that era. The Stones were badass during that period. It's a shame there are no official live releases (CD) to document that tour (other than the DVD).

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​https://youtu.be/P6R8pFz_uBE​

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Edited December 26, 2015 by foghat43

[Silent Jay]

Could have been on top, or not. Could have been all over already.

The thing is that nowadays people still go crazy for Axl and Slash, it's like all these years of wars and wilderness keep GNR on the spot.