Share your thoughts on Chinese Democracy

[Sprite]

30 minutes ago, Dan H. said:

 

 

Did you enjoy Chinese Democracy?

Did it personally affect your life? How so? Any stories? (I.E. when Chinese Democracy was released I went with a friend to Best Buy as soon as it opened, and we sat in the parking lot in his car and listened to the whole thing. I've never had so much of a personal connection to a record release to the point that I would do something like that, and it's a memory of a love of music and the music industry that I will always remember)

Do you think its place in music history is deserved or not? Critical reviews of the album are generally average to above average, would you say that the album deserves a legacy similar to other widely critically acclaimed albums like Dark Side of the Moon or similary recognized and famous/infamous album attempts?

 

Perhaps the circumstances surrounding the album are more interesting and accessible than the music itself? Do you think the album and its history, rather than being a detraction of the album, was the bulk of what made Chinese Democracy interesting?

 

 

I absolutely enjoy CD. Still listen to it frequently. One of my favorite albums by any artist for sure.

I remember when it streamed to Myspace the night before (Nov. 22nd). I had a date and went on that instead of streaming it when the stream started at night I think? I never made it back home and woke up in the AM to drive to Best Buy, a little hungover and tired. I walked in and remember feeling like I just turned 18 or 21. Or just walked out of work on a long weekend Friday. It was like "Wow. Finally!" Nothing else mattered in that moment. I remember driving home and just looking at the cover being amazed it was here. By that point the only songs I hadn't heard were Sorry, Scraped, This I Love and Prostitute. I may have heard them with those terrible AOL sounds but that doesn't count. I recall laying on my bed, listening to the whole album and falling asleep at the end of prostitute. It was cathartic in a way. It was like that portion of my life (the waiting, checking forums, the wonder) was over and I was satisfied. I remember scraped really standing out to me for some reason. I know it's hated here but I actually think it's one of the better songs there.

I'm not really sure where it stands in music history but I'm not the best person to ask that. Do I think it stands up to Dark Side of the Moon? Certainly, and I'm a huge Pink Floyd fan. That is just my opinion though. It's been said to death, but with it's pre release resume, it's bound to ruffle some feathers, and you are bound to have a sizable portion of the public not give it the time of day because of it's resume. But that's life. I don't watch the bachelor cause I don't think there is anything there for me and I judge that type of show based off my limited information. Maybe I'd like it if I watched objectively, considering the audience and type of show it is? Meh but it's easier to stay cynical because I don't like change anymore than the next person.

The bulk of what made it interesting was all of it. All of the history. Shaq. Buckethead. Cock a roach soup. Mike Piazza. NYC ballroom shows in 06. missing synthesizer in the finished product of the blues. Watching the blues turn into Street of Dreams and reading people object to it because it sounded too much like a Green day title. The music itself. The heavy riff in scraped. Is Oklahoma Riad? The calming outro to Prostitute. The instrumental version of TIL. The lyrics. Catcher in the Rye and the association with the book. I love it all man. 

[SoundOfAGun]

My band had split about a year before Chinese Democracy finally saw the light of day. Guns had and are a huge influence on me, which meant that regardless of personnel, I was looking forward to hearing Axl's new music. I got into a band when first moved to London, probably around 6 weeks before the album was released. The thing that really struck me about the record as I listened to it on the way to rehearsals when it first came out (Colindale to Leyton for anyone down there) was how uneven it was. I couldn't believe that the man who had written the lyrics for Coma, Locomotive and Don't Damn Me had actually released If The World. On top of that, it also sat alongside There Was A Time, which I thought was one of the best songs Rose has ever put together. The second thing was that it did not inspire me in the way AFD and the UYI's did, either to listen to or creatively. Maybe I had set myself up for disappointment in that respect. I persevered with the album over those long tube rides in the winter of 2008, but I don't feel that the 15 odd years in the making really justified the results that were produced. It is a shame, but also goes to show that the magic of Guns N' Roses was the product of alchemy, rather than the product of a visionary.

Edited March 21, 2016 by SoundOfAGun

[janrichmond]

I have never heard it.

 

[PsychoKiss344]

I really enjoy the album, listen to it frequently!

The whole mystic around the whole era of Chinese Democracy is what makes me so intrigued in the album!

[Silverburst80]

I don't count it as a Guns n Roses album personally. On the actual music there are parts here and there that made me go "hmm not bad" but that's about it. My main thoughts listening to it were you ruined one of the coolest things to happen to rock music to go in this direction Axl?, shame on you.

[Lies They Tell]

3 hours ago, Dan H. said:

Did you enjoy Chinese Democracy?

Yes, very much so! Maybe a little too ballady for my taste, but other than that it's a great album.

3 hours ago, Dan H. said:

Did it personally affect your life? How so? Any stories? (I.E. when Chinese Democracy was released I went with a friend to Best Buy as soon as it opened, and we sat in the parking lot in his car and listened to the whole thing. I've never had so much of a personal connection to a record release to the point that I would do something like that, and it's a memory of a love of music and the music industry that I will always remember)

Obviously the waiting for Chinese Democracy was a big part of my life. It will always be a special album because of the hype around it. Those were amazing times when the first songs leaked.

The album has also helped me through some though times. It is pretty much a perfect break up album. It has songs for every emotion that you have after a bitter break up. This I Love is a song about not being able to let go. When you just can't accept that it's over. Shackler's Revenge is for the moments when you're angry about it all. It's like some kind of a revenge fantasy. Street Of Dreams is a song about the moment when you realize that the person you used to love isn't the person that you used to love anymore. Sorry is about the feeling when you're not sad about the break up anymore. You're over it and you realize that you have no reason to feel sorry for yourself. The other person is the one who got the shorter straw. Madagascar is about forgiving the one who tore down your soul.

3 hours ago, Dan H. said:

Do you think its place in music history is deserved or not? 

I guess so! Many people seem to underestimate how popular Chinese Democracy actually is. When you look at Spotify statistics, people listen to it about as much as they listen to Use Your Illusion records. It's a great record, and it has a well deserved place in the music history. It's no Dark Side Of The Moon though.

4 hours ago, Dan H. said:

Do you think the album and its history, rather than being a detraction of the album, was the bulk of what made Chinese Democracy interesting?

Of course the history of the record makes it more interesting and the story behind the album is the reason why Chinese Democracy is so legendary. Nevertheless it is a pretty interesting album even without the whole backstory.

[-W.A.R-]

i embarrassingly bought into the whole "its bad" narrative and kinda ignored it but its has grown on me so much

Prostitute and Madagascar have become daily listens....its not better than AFD or UYI's but its a solid album and i think it would have been better received had it not took over 10 years to produce because its certainly not good enough to live up that....anything less than AFD would have been a disappointment at that stage....so a 7/10 album is big letdown

Edited March 22, 2016 by -W.A.R-

[killuridols]

I love Chinese Democracy! It is the GN'R album I listen to the most, along with UYI 2.

There's a lot of prejudice against it, like some people wont listen to it and disregard it as a GN'R album, just because there is no Slash or Duff or Izzy on it. Of course, its totally different from the other GNR albums and that is because the whole thing revolves around Axl's experiences. People think of Guns N' Roses as a band of actual guys and not as a concept, that's why they cant see it as a Guns album, it doesn't have Slash touch. Slash created a lot of "eerie" sounds for GNR music. Songs like Rocket Queen are a perfect example of that, Jungle too.. Those kinda things are missing from this album... the personal touch of the people who defined GN'R sound in the beginning.

That said, CD is a great album but sometimes I feel it lacks cohesion. There are songs that are too different one from the other. I still love them, though. It failed as a GNR album but it would have made a great Axl solo debut album. Had he gone that route, CD today would enjoy a different status.

So in my opinion, the biggest con of CD are Guns N' Roses fans. They are the ones who prevented the album from being as successful as the other ones. People rejected it without giving it a chance. I think GNR fans are more like fans of the actual musicians and not much of the music itself. And Axl was crucified because of it. People see CD as the monster that ate real GN'R. And they say "Axl destroyed the band to carry on with his colossal vision. We will turn our backs on him and that silly album until he comes to his senses and gets the original guys back".

I wonder what will happen if Axl releases CD2 with the help of Slash and Duff... Will CD2 sell millions of records? Maybe Chinese Democracy needs CD2 to have its reputation redeemed. Only time will tell.

[Vic Sage]

It was what it was.CD turned out to be the beginning of the end for Nu Metal GNR with the final shows being at Hard Rock.

[HollyWoodRose84]

My thoughts?

 

it don't really matter........

[Graeme]

7 hours ago, Dan H. said:

Did you enjoy Chinese Democracy?

Did it personally affect your life? How so? Any stories? (I.E. when Chinese Democracy was released I went with a friend to Best Buy as soon as it opened, and we sat in the parking lot in his car and listened to the whole thing. I've never had so much of a personal connection to a record release to the point that I would do something like that, and it's a memory of a love of music and the music industry that I will always remember)

Do you think its place in music history is deserved or not? Critical reviews of the album are generally average to above average, would you say that the album deserves a legacy similar to other widely critically acclaimed albums like Dark Side of the Moon or similary recognized and famous/infamous album attempts?

Perhaps the circumstances surrounding the album are more interesting and accessible than the music itself? Do you think the album and its history, rather than being a detraction of the album, was the bulk of what made Chinese Democracy interesting?

Wow. A thread in Discussion & News that I actually feel I can contribute to... A rare occurrence these days.

Yes, I enjoyed Chinese Democracy. It's not a perfect album, everyone has those rare albums they think are flawless from beginning to end, but you can't say that every album which doesn't manage that is worthless. I can take or leave the first two songs, the run from Better to Catcher is completely brilliant, Sorry, I.R.S. and Madagascar are solid and Prostitute is my second favourite Guns N' Roses song ever. I don't really listen to CD very much anymore, I think the introduction of streaming has made my music consumption a lot broader, more eclectic and less artist-based. That and I'm still too disappointed about how that whole era of the band ended to revisit it without just feeling sad.

It was a big deal for me when it came out. I was 18, in those days the music you liked was a big part of who you were. I'm not saying music isn't important to me now, life without music wouldn't be worth living, I don't think, but nowadays it feels like less of a lifestyle choice. I was part of this community, I loved sharing in the anticipation and excitement in those days. The shows I'd seen in 2006 were two of the best nights of my life, just absolutely electric and I loved the leaks, particularly Catcher. I remember the day it came out, Axls_Rocket_Queen and I met up at University, got the subway into Glasgow City Centre, went to HMV and bought the record together, we even posed with our copies for a photograph. Who does that for an album release these days? It was like nothing that's come since. I remember it was a November day and the sun was setting very early, about 4:30pm, going home and listening to it on the biggest sound system in my house. By the time Prostitute finished I realised I was sitting in the dark and I just remember thinking "Wow, what a resolution, you pulled it off, boys!" Some of my most personal GN'R memories came later on, (getting a request played in 2012 etc.) but they're irrevocably tied to the CD era.

I'd say it definitely deserves to be judged on the merit of its songs rather than the length of time it took to produce. I think there was a lack of objectivity in the reception which placed context over content, but the thing which I find really interesting is that people seem to remember it as much more of a failure than it actually was. It was the biggest selling album in the world on the week that it was released, in an era where album sales on the scale of those seen during the days of the Illusions were long since a thing of the past. Likewise, ask your average joe about how the album was received then they'll most likely tell you that it was panned, when the truth is that it really did receive positive to mixed reviews at the time. It's almost like the legend of how "bad" it apparently was self-perpetuated until it became gospel and you had people who never gave it the time of day panning it.

I think the answer to your last question is the other side of the double-edged sword, probably without all that baggage and mystique, it wouldn't have been the biggest selling album in the world on week of release and I doubt it would have inspired me or countless others on here (yourself included) to go and make such a big deal out of the day it came out. It was a fascinating saga to behold, I don't think we'll ever see its like again.

[rocknroll41]

9 hours ago, maynard said:

Some good ideas buried in a pretentious mess.

Exactly this^

[wasted]

The leaks were important to the internet fan base. They were kind of like the build up to CD. That's something non internet fans might not have experienced. Did the internet delay they album?

I don't see much evidence of CD the music being influenced by the internet. Unless you think the leaks guided the tracks we got. Maybe Sorry was Axl's response to the internet criticism? 

In general the production of CD was polarizing. And maybe die hards gathered online. The internet redefined the term die hard?

[Nosaj Thing]

11 hours ago, maynard said:

Some good ideas buried in a pretentious mess.

 

This.

Terribly awful album that had potential.

[sanity_lost]

Probably not much use for the project, but I get something different out of all of GNR's albums. I, unlike many here apparently, like the sound of Chinese. If I just want to listen to music to listen to music I will get my good headphones and put on Chinese. I love all the different sounds and how they go together. It is an album where I can close my eyes and enjoy it and hear new things I didn't notice before.  Appetite and Illusions II may be neck and neck for my favorite Guns album due to various songs on them, but Chinese definitely gets more listens from me. I will listen to it start to finish where with the other albums I will usually only listen them start to finish if I have a lot of time to kill while I am working on a project then the order is Chinese, Illusions II, Illusions I, Appetite.

 

[DR DOOM]

The official album is a piece of shit.

The live performances and leaks of the songs that we got before the album came out shit all over the ones on the actual album.

Too many cooks spoiled the broth, having Ron Thal (in particular) and Frank come in years later and graffiti the music neither one had a damn thing to do with creating was a huge mistake IMO- nothing good came from that.

So yeah, I like-love the songs but hate the versions presented on the album.

[Bono]

I gotta laugh at the fact it's 2016 and we still have people saying the album is disliked more so for reason beyond the music and that if people just give it a fair chance it's a good to great album. Honestly that opinion can fuck right off. Never in my life have I seen so many people ignore the FACT that musically a LOT of people just do not like Chinese Democracy at all. It has nothing to do with the name or expectations or their love for Slash. It has to do with the music. If the CD was released under a  different name GnR fans would not like it anymore and in the rare case of those that would they are fucking idiots anyways because they don't think for themselves and their opinions are not their own. 

CD for many people who have listend to it objectively, including myself is a god awful, unlistenable mess.  It has a few cool ideas burried beneath a bunch of forgettable shit.  There's a few songs that could've been great had they been recorded by a real band with proper production. In fact CD based solely on the fact it was released under the GnR banner was given way more than a fair chance by fans who wanted desperately to like it but couldn't because in their objective opinion it fucking sucks. 

[betterman]

Chinese Democracy is awesome!

I will probably put Use Your illusions at the top, but think CD is better than Appettite and the rest of the GNR albums.

Tracks like Better, Street of dreams, Catcher in the rye and There was a time are amongst their best tracks

[SEPTEM]

Some songs are so so so good that they can carry an entire álbum by themselves..  Thats the case with twat  , prostitute, til, and sorry.

Those songs are just wonderfull pieces. And i very nice bite of axls huge talent as composer. 

, if the world and cd are excelent second line songs 

S. Revenge is almost there too.

All those songs i named worth the wait. Chinese is a great álbum, way ahead of his time.

But i gotta say.. Songs like rhiad ( worst guitar solo ever) , scraped ( worst voice production/edit  ever)  ruins a little the álbums mistique

 

But like i said. Those songs i named first worth everything. Tjose songs are enormes artistic pieces of gold.  Twat probably one of the best songs ever written but its hard to become a classic with no huge radio promo, vídeo, and almost not played live.

 

[sonofnazareth]

CD > Contraband, Last 3 Slash albums, all Loaded albums, its 5 o clock somewhere

 

[Bono]

1 hour ago, sonofnazareth said:

CD > Contraband, Last 3 Slash albums, all Loaded albums, its 5 o clock somewhere

 

[AxlRoseCDII]

Chinese Democracy, in my opinion, is one of the best albums of all time and at that, the most interesting and even complex. On the first listen I was downright offended, I thought the tracks were terrible. I hated Shacklers and Better, thought If The World was...weird. Street of Dreams I enjoyed. TWAT and Madagascar bored me, and Prositutue I thought was awful.

Why did I listen to the album continously after if these were my first thoughts? I was curious. It was a different album from the old GNR, for sure, and every time I listened to the tracks in a different manner I wouldn't know what to think. More and more the tracks started to grow on me, and I genuinely started to like the album. My now favorite songs of all time come from this album: TWAT and Madagascar. Brilliant masterpieces. Hell, I even enjoy Scraped and Riad. 

The album is brilliant. Yes, it took forever to be released and it had a lot of artists on the track, but I don't agree with the people who think that this affected the album. Marketing was the only real problem.

The main complaint I hear is that Chinese Democracy isn't a true GNR album. And they're right. It's not. It's truly an "Axl Rose Band" record.

That being said, I like it just as much as the other GNR albums or even better.

Another argument I hear is that it isn't a solid rock album, "the style changed!" AFD and UYI were completely different also, people forget. Hell, even AFD and Lies were different styles. It's an natural progression of rock. It needed to evolve. Plus, Chinese Democracy has tracks similiar to what we would have heard in the UYI era (IRS, CD, Street of Dreams, Better) just like UYI had tracks similiar to what we would have heard in the AFD days (Back Off Bitch, Double talking, RNDTH, YCBM).

Another  reason the album wasn't well acclaimed was because the band was not well known. Band members were in and out, they did nothing to solidify themselves as a new GNR besides what, 2 tours? No photo shoots, little interviews, no EPs, bad communication, no press conferences. Plus the line up was a bit of a freak show.

 

Its a shame CD will never be accepted by the mainstream media because it is a brilliant, near perfect album that has changed my life.

[gunsfanoldie]

It is a more than admirable solo album. That is truly all it is to me.

As an Axl Rose solo album, it goes beyond what many thought it would have been and is actually a relatively enjoyable listen filled with solid songs.

It is not a Guns N Roses album, it never will be a Guns N Roses album, and that is simply just that IMO.

Those that call it a masterpiece or utter shit, IMO, aren't giving it a fair shake. To call it a masterpiece (whether an Axl Rose solo album masterpiece or a Guns N Roses album masterpiece) is far too much blind praise (I truly believe only like 5 people GENUINELY mean that and the rest are just totally brainwashed) and to call it complete and utter garbage is simply not listening to it and going into it with that attitude. That is wholly unfair because on its own merits it stands up fine for what it is.

But yeah, I've always thought it was a very easy album to define. A solid Axl Rose album, not a Guns record, and a record that is neither flawless nor horrible.

[Mr. Dude]

I rank it one of the top 10 rock n roll albums of all time, GNR's best record, and the last great true rock n roll masterpiece. No single record will ever again approach the scope in magnitude, hype, and anticipation as Chinese Democracy. Nor will any artist ever again have the license to attempt something as grandiose. I feel privileged for having been granted the opportunity and objectivity to experience its exquisite grandeur in real time.

[Edward Nygma]

Love the album...