Ace Nova Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 1 minute ago, SoulMonster said: Still god in the gaps. There is zero reason to believe that since we yet don't know everything about break of symmetry, it must be caused by a deity. This is just goddicts who frantically crave arguments to substantiate their irrational beliefs. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You're looking for scientific proof of the existence of God...and anything less than that, you are closed minded to. I'm guessing it comes from your hate and disdain of religion, idk. My beliefs are based on faith but they can be at least moderately understood by people, even if they don't have faith but at least have an open mind. You have neither so trying to have this conversation with you is impractical. Nothing personal, Soulsy. We are just too far apart in beliefs and overall thought process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 22 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: Some Christians don't believe in Purgatory at all. I'm Catholic and we believe that Purgatory is part of the journey we go through in the afterlife. So no, according to my faith, Purgatory isn't what we see here in our 3 dimensional world...although it could be all around us (in another dimension) but we just don't see it. There's references to the Kingdom of God being here, but we just can't see it...in both the Bible and Gnostic texts...which seems to allude to the existence of other dimensions. Most protestant sects reject purgatory. They espouse sola fide, ''by faith alone'' (i.e. faith guarantees salvation and not acts and indulgences). They also claim purgatory has no scriptural precedence. Calvinists strongly delineate humanity between elect and non-elect; if you are in the former you are going to heaven whereas if you are in the latter you are going to hell (i.e. there is no purgatory, intermediary state where people recompense for their sins). In Reformation England purgatorial scenes were white-washed; you can still see the evidence today, where the paint has deteriorated revealing lost medieval murals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 30 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Most protestant sects reject purgatory. They espouse sola fide, ''by faith alone'' (i.e. faith guarantees salvation and not acts and indulgences). They also claim purgatory has no scriptural precedence. Calvinists strongly delineate humanity between elect and non-elect; if you are in the former you are going to heaven whereas if you are in the latter you are going to hell (i.e. there is no purgatory, intermediary state where people recompense for their sins). In Reformation England purgatorial scenes were white-washed; you can still see the evidence today, where the paint has deteriorated revealing lost medieval murals. People who believe in a load of bollocks reject others' belief in a load of bollocks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 13 minutes ago, Dazey said: People who believe in a load of bollocks reject others' belief in a load of bollocks. You would be a rubbish historian. ''Question 1: Write a 500 word essay describing the differences between consubstantiation and transubstantiation'' Two pairs of bollocks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 I'm just grateful that God provided us with the faculties to reason and imbued us wth curiosity, so that our yearning for God can provoke so much wonder and study. Whether we seek to re-create the origin of the world through science or to re-create the meaning via art, we're compelled by great joy to pursue these re-creations. It is all an act of worship in the imitation of God. Whereas toiling is what what the world thrusts on us; this pursuit of God is called recreation. As Christs way is simple and his yoke is light. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sosso Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) It's not reasonable for me to believe in the actual excistence of somerhing like god or the devil. I still have nothing against the religious believe of others. Dialectical Materialism is a logical way to explain the world for me. I studied the works from the ancient Greeks, Kant, Hegel, Feuerbach and Marx. Edited October 27, 2017 by Sosso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Kasanova King said: I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You're looking for scientific proof of the existence of God...and anything less than that, you are closed minded to. I'm guessing it comes from your hate and disdain of religion, idk. My beliefs are based on faith but they can be at least moderately understood by people, even if they don't have faith but at least have an open mind. You have neither so trying to have this conversation with you is impractical. Nothing personal, Soulsy. We are just too far apart in beliefs and overall thought process. Whether gaps in our understanding point to the existence of gods or not, has nothing to do with science, but with common sense. And goddicts are very adept at suppressing common sense when it means they are rewarded by a false sense of evidence for their delusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said: You would be a rubbish historian. ''Question 1: Write a 500 word essay describing the differences between consubstantiation and transubstantiation'' Two pairs of bollocks. That would be a rubbish question in history. Unless you are a historian of religion or a theologist. It's like asking someone to write an assay about the differencs in Lamarckian evolution and creationism. It's all rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Just now, SoulMonster said: That would be a rubbish question in history. Unless you are a historian of religion or a theologist. It's like asking someone to write an assay about the differencs in Lamarckian evolution and creationism. It's all rubbish. Ehh, I hate to tell you this but religion plays a vital role in history, general history and not just religious history. If one was to study say the reformation, one would need a fair grasp of the theological differences between Catholicism, Lutheranism and Calvinism. I studied this myself as an undergraduate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Whether gaps in our understanding point to the existence of gods or not, has nothing to do with science, but with common sense. And goddicts are very adept at suppressing common sense when it means they are rewarded by a false sense of evidence for their delusions. I have plenty of evidence. Most of it is in the spiritual sense but that's even more real to me than the world we see. For me, common sense is believing that there is a supreme being. What's completely illogical to me, is thinking that Humans, basically a few steps away from a monkey, are the supreme beings of the Universe. Have you ever had a "spiritual" experience? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 14 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Ehh, I hate to tell you this but religion plays a vital role in history, general history and not just religious history. Of course, but that was a question for theologists or historians of religion. Just as I stated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Just now, SoulMonster said: Of course, but that was a question for theologists or historians of religion. Just as I stated. Not really. The Reformation is on the curriculum of (general) history - as I said, I studied it at undergraduate level and I was doing 'history', not 'religious history' or 'theological history' or some derivative. It is virtually impossible to have any grasp of ancient, medieval, reformation-17th century history without a grasp of these era's belief structures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 15 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: I have plenty of evidence. Most of it is in the spiritual sense but that's even more real to me than the world we see. For me, common sense is believing that there is a supreme being. What's completely illogical to me, is thinking that Humans, basically a few steps away from a monkey, are the supreme beings of the Universe. Have you ever had a "spiritual" experience? I fail to see how it is common sense to believe in the supernatural. I don't know if humans are the supreme beings in the Universe, or even on Earth. Isn't it a particular Christian idea to think of humans as supreme? Well, I don't buy into it. Various insects, bacteria and nematodes seem better adapted to life and are more well-suited to survive long term, if that can be used as a criteria for "supreme". It depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I have had profound experiences, experiences that have been seared into my mind and will be with me until I die. I have had awesome experiences. I have felt stupified awe by both love and nature. But I have never experienced anything that has made me go, "Ah, this means supernatural creatures exist!" And I think that the more I learn and understand, the less chance there will be for that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Not really. The Reformation is on the curriculum of (general) history - as I said, I studied it at undergraduate level and I was doing 'history', not 'religious history' or 'theological history' or some derivative. How sad that they felt you needed to know the differential intricacies of religious folly to understand the period of the Reformation. One would think there would be more important things to teach you about that period and not waste your curriculum on such religious details. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 1 minute ago, SoulMonster said: I fail to see how it is common sense to believe in the supernatural. I don't know if humans are the supreme beings in the Universe, or even on Earth. Isn't it a particular Christian idea to think of humans as supreme? Well, I don't buy into it. Various insects, bacteria and nematodes seem better adapted to life and are more well-suited to survive long term, if that can be used as a criteria for "supreme". It depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I have had profound experiences, experiences that have been seared into my mind and will be with me until I die. I have had awesome experiences. I have felt stupified awe by both love and nature. But I have never experienced anything that has made me go, "Ah, this means supernatural creatures exist!" And I think that the more I learn and understand, the less chance there will be for that. For me, God and spirituality are completely natural. And yes, I believe that Humans, in the spiritual sense, with the grace of the Holy Spirit are a reflection of God...or at least they have the potential to be....but they are never "greater than God". When you look at your children, do you not see a spiritual being? Or do you just see an evolved monkey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: How sad that they felt you needed to know the differential intricacies of religious folly to understand the period of the Reformation. One would think there would be more important things to teach you about that period and not waste your curriculum on such religious details. Sorry Soul but please shut up before you make an idiot of yourself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kasanova King said: When you look at your children, do you not see a spiritual being? Or do you just see an evolved monkey? We never evolved from monkeys. Nobody ever said that. Well no biologist anyway. Edited October 27, 2017 by Dazey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sosso Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kasanova King said: For me, God and spirituality are completely natural. And yes, I believe that Humans, in the spiritual sense, with the grace of the Holy Spirit are a reflection of God...or at least they have the potential to be....but they are never "greater than God". When you look at your children, do you not see a spiritual being? Or do you just see an evolved monkey? Please do yourself a favour and read some books about natural science and astronomy Edited October 27, 2017 by Sosso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Dazey said: We never evolved from monkeys. Nobody ever said that. Well no biologist anyway. 5 minutes ago, Sosso said: Please do yourself a favour and read some books about natural science and astronomy It's a saying. Anyway, this looks like a monkey to me.... If ya'll want I'll use the word primate next time if it makes you happy...lol. Edited October 27, 2017 by Kasanova King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sosso Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Just now, Kasanova King said: It's a saying. Anyway, this looks like a monkey to me.... Your arguments are not very reasonable if you deny millions of years of evolution. I guess the same kind of people were responsible for the oppression of Darwin and Galilei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Just now, Sosso said: Your arguments are not very reasonable if you deny millions of years of evolution. I guess the same kind of people were responsible for the oppression of Darwin and Galilei Who's denying evolution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: It's a saying. Anyway, this looks like a monkey to me.... If ya'll want I'll use the word primate next time if it makes you happy...lol. We didn't evolve from primates either really. We still are primates. Edited October 27, 2017 by Dazey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) Here we go again haha! I'll save you the bother, ''Priests...shagging kids...It is alli a load of bollocks'' blah blah blah. How many times has this played out? Edited October 27, 2017 by DieselDaisy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Dazey said: We didn't evolve from primates either. Apes? Chimps? What do you want me to call them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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