Cultural/Political/Social Trends & Divergence Thread

[killuridols]

They are overrated and leading the way in popular culture does not speak of their quality or productivity, but of their capacity to invade other cultures and impose their own, in order to capture new markets for their cultural products.

[wasted]

12 hours ago, soon said:

HAHA! I agree with the World Champion USA observation! They even name their National Sport - Wrestling - World Wrestling Federation!

So true about things getting into the cultural DNA. I know people who dont even like NFL football but they still get excited for extra special tv commercials that companies play during the the Super Bowl coverage 

 Feels to me like they could easily do so. Stick to the vision.

Born in the Swiss Alps to a Canadian banker father and Miss Sweden 1970 he was trained from an early age to be a Russian spy. Furniture, James Furniture, license to construct. 

[DieselDaisy]

Acculturation. There is one of those poncy academic terms. 

[SoulMonster]

48 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Acculturation. There is one of those poncy academic terms. 

You'd rather it didn't exist, right?

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

You'd rather it didn't exist, right?

Not really.

[soon]

9 hours ago, Graeme said:

Curling's Scottish anyway .

I kinda think of Canada as the Scotland of North America... Mountainous and beautiful, fairly lefty in comparison to its larger, more obnoxious and assimilationist southern neighbour.

For the most part we only have what the settlers brought. So Curling is our own now. And we're the best at it 

Bannock is also Scottish but now belongs in full to the First Nations of this land. Similar to what happened to y'all with dreadlocks too, I guess. Haggis gets a bad rap so no one will steal that at least, even though its fucking delicious.

Theres only mountains where the mountains are. But yeah, its beautiful here.

[soon]

12 hours ago, Whiskey Rose said:

 

Omg, I nearly had a heart attack when I read that about hockey! I'm glad you checked out that link Soon, to clear things up.  I mean seriously, you get a guy in soccer rolling around on the ground when someone "almost" hits his shin, and in hockey, a guy gets a flying puck to the face, knocks out 3 teeth, sticks a dirty sock in his mouth that was percolating in his hockey bag for a month to stop the bleeding, and is out on the ice again next period!  That ain't no "bitch" sport!  (except when our women's team plays, they kick ass ).

Well said!

The women's team should swim across the pond and kick these pasty dudes asses for talking trash. 

[EvanG]

9 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Gissa kiss eh

Shoot... quoted the wrong post yesterday. My apologies.

[Whiskey Rose]

"pasty"

 

Seriously though, some stereotypes are fun and funny and its great when we can all laugh at ourselves...but there are lots of great Americans here, and we really shouldn't be using words like "obnoxious" "awful" etc, as a blanket statement, I know I wouldn't want to read that about my country.   And if I did I may have to start whipping around my toboggan..

[EvanG]

I like the Americans. The ones I have met were all super friendly. I don't care about that always hugging principle that they have, but other than that I don't have any bad experiences with them.

Edited August 19, 2018 by EvanG

[Whiskey Rose]

12 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I don't care about that always hugging principle that they have

  You don't like hugging either? We can add this to the list of not liking children playing, birds chirping, sun shining, music blaring, haircuts trending, etc.

(Sorry, I had to, just teasing you lol.)

[soon]

11 hours ago, killuridols said:

From the ass of the world, Canada is perceived here as a first world country, very organized, with educated people, high quality level of life and lots of snow

We don't blend you in to the US. We know they are pretty awful.

Oh the snow. I have yet to make peace with all the snow 

As far as most city life goes, thats fairly accurate. But life for First Nations and Inuit arent often like that at all. Whether on Reserves or along with others in rural poverty in the North. Canada is an ongoing colonial project which isnt often part of the image and narrative of Canada. Theres more opportunity to decolonize now then ever before, but the plight of Indigenous people is also far more dire in many aspects then its been since arrival. Our late singer and poet Gord Downy said this about our current PM Trudeau shortly before Gords passing last year. And it really sums up the whole reality of it:

"He cares about the people way up north. That we were trained our entire lives to ignore."

I hope we can live up to our glowing reputation and make serious changes here!

11 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Americans are alright, bless em.  More than a few of us grew up on their movies and music...and we are on a forum for a band of theirs.  I’m a yankophile to be honest, it’d be silly to deny it.  The Blues, Jazz, Rock n Roll, Hip Hop, Funk, all these things come from yanks so I’d be a fool to hate on em.  They’ve led the way in 20th Century popular culture and they ain’t made a bad start of the 21st either.

Youre a jazz guy so Im sure you know more about this then me, but due to racism and segregation a lot of black jazz musicians spent lots of time living and working in places like Switzerland and France back in Jazz's hey day. I would imagine that those European cultures would also make up part of the influences in the ongoing development of Jazz? And then jazz forms the basis for much of US popular culture. I wonder how much Europe slipped into the US cultural cannon via the Jazz 'exiles?'

Edited August 19, 2018 by soon

[EvanG]

5 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

  You don't like hugging either? We can add this to the list of not liking children playing, birds chirping, sun shining, music blaring, haircuts trending, etc.

(Sorry, I had to, just teasing you lol.)

Not strangers or people I barely know! What's wrong with a proper handshake? 

You Canadians do this too, right? First time I went to Canada with my mom, who grew up there, we met up with some childhood friend of hers who I had never met before, and she was quite a big lady. She walked up to me, before even saying hi to my mom, then she said that she liked tall boys, grabbed me and gave me this big hug... I was completely startled! That was my introduction to older Canadian women. True story.

[Whiskey Rose]

8 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Not strangers or people I barely know! What's wrong with a proper handshake? 

You Canadians do this too, right? First time I went to Canada with my mom, who grew up there, we met up with some childhood friend of hers who I had never met before, and she was quite a big lady. She walked up to me, before even saying hi to my mom, then she said that she liked tall boys, grabbed me and gave me this big hug... I was completely startled! That was my introduction to older Canadian women. True story.

Yes we are huggers too. Mostly only the women though! Or maybe you just found yourself a cougar there..being a "hugger" is a good cover! haha 

Personally I like a handshake and do it often..however..most women do the limp 4 finger handshake..i'm sorry but it's true and I can't stand it..I don't know why women won't shake hands in a firm solid grip like a man! Even worse is when a man does the limp 4 finger shake...just gross.

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, Whiskey Rose said:

Yes we are huggers too. Mostly only the women though! Or maybe you just found yourself a cougar there..being a "hugger" is a good cover! haha 

Personally I like a handshake and do it often..however..most women do the limp 4 finger handshake..i'm sorry but it's true and I can't stand it..I don't know why women won't shake hands in a firm solid grip like a man! Even worse is when a man does the limp 4 finger shake...just gross.

Yeah, they are just as lame as those half-assed hugs... because you don't even properly hug. I don't like doing the cheek kiss either because that's half-assed too most of the time. It's basically just cheek touching cheek and then making the kiss sound. 

Maybe we should all just try to avoid physical contact as much as possible and do the awkward bow like some Asian cultures do. Maybe Len can teach us how to do a proper bow.

[Whiskey Rose]

Or just go full Italian with every greeting, with the man handshake, the full body hug with the slap on the back, and the lip smacking kiss on both cheeks.. ehh ohh. @Kasanova King?

[Len Cnut]

35 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Yeah, they are just as lame as those half-assed hugs... because you don't even properly hug. I don't like doing the cheek kiss either because that's half-assed too most of the time. It's basically just cheek touching cheek and then making the kiss sound. 

Maybe we should all just try to avoid physical contact as much as possible and do the awkward bow like some Asian cultures do. Maybe Len can teach us how to do a proper bow.

Who am I, Charlie Chan all of a sudden?   I don’t bow to no fuckin’ man

[killuridols]

Please people read beyond your eyes , can you? There's no chance for me to know each and every U.S.A. person out there so when I talk about "them" and their awfulness I am basically talking about politics, governments, politicians and the impact their decisions have on the rest of the world.

Just from the very awful truth that they call themselves Americans, overlooking that America is a continent comprised of many different and diverse countries.

That's only one example of their hunger for power and if you dont think that's bad then I dont know what could be.

1 hour ago, soon said:

Oh the snow. I have yet to make peace with all the snow 

As far as most city life goes, thats fairly accurate. But life for First Nations and Inuit arent often like that at all. Whether on Reserves or along with others in rural poverty in the North. Canada is an ongoing colonial project which isnt often part of the image and narrative of Canada. Theres more opportunity to decolonize now then ever before, but the plight of Indigenous people is also far more dire in many aspects then its been since arrival. Our late singer and poet Gord Downy said this about our current PM Trudeau shortly before Gords passing last year. And it really sums up the whole reality of it:

"He cares about the people way up north. That we were trained our entire lives to ignore."

I hope we can live up to our glowing reputation and make serious changes here!

Yes, I have read a tiny bit about the problems in Canada with indigenous people because we have a similar problem in the south of Argentina and in the northeast. It's really bad whats happening with them and the armed forces, police, they get killed and incarcerated and no one gives a shit.

But yeah, that's why I said this is how your country is perceived around here, not that it is exactly like that. Obviously, all nations have their 'things to fix yet' but the reasons why we see you through rose-colored lens is maybe because we cant even solve or have the basic things to dignify the lives of our population 

[Lio]

2 hours ago, soon said:

As far as most city life goes, thats fairly accurate. But life for First Nations and Inuit arent often like that at all. Whether on Reserves or along with others in rural poverty in the North. Canada is an ongoing colonial project which isnt often part of the image and narrative of Canada. Theres more opportunity to decolonize now then ever before, but the plight of Indigenous people is also far more dire in many aspects then its been since arrival. Our late singer and poet Gord Downy said this about our current PM Trudeau shortly before Gords passing last year. And it really sums up the whole reality of it:

"He cares about the people way up north. That we were trained our entire lives to ignore."

I hope we can live up to our glowing reputation and make serious changes here!

So you confirm the story my friend who's recently been to Canada (not the big cities) told me. He was really appalled by things he saw there regarding the treatment of indigenous people. Laws are in place to respect or honour the indigenous people, in ways that look absurd to outsiders like us, but if you look at what actually happens in real life, it comes down to being just hypocrite basically.

It's funny, like you say, certainly now with Trudeau we get this image of Canada being this hospitable, social and warm (not literally though) country, but the situation for indigenous people seems much the same as in places like US and Australia.

[soon]

48 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Yes, I have read a tiny bit about the problems in Canada with indigenous people because we have a similar problem in the south of Argentina and in the northeast. It's really bad whats happening with them and the armed forces, police, they get killed and incarcerated and no one gives a shit.

But yeah, that's why I said this is how your country is perceived around here, not that it is exactly like that. Obviously, all nations have their 'things to fix yet' but the reasons why we see you through rose-colored lens is maybe because we cant even solve or have the basic things to dignify the lives of our population 

Ah, perception, thanks for highlighting that. Yeah, I wouldn't want to take for granted all that we have here its just that there are Reserves without reliable sources of clean water. There are reserves with incredibly high cancer rates and other illnesses due to industrial contamination of waters despite Treaties that promise against this and promise informed and prior consent from First Nations before any industrial use of water and lands. They dont have good or any education or health infrastructure. So in that sense Canada has also failed to create basic means and dignity for so many people.

The reason the infrastructure of the Reserves is inadequate and falling apart is because they simply weren't built to last. Following that truth to its logical conclusion we can see that Indigenous people were meant to have been killed, imprisoned or assimilated by now, in the mind of the Settler establishment. But theres this glimmer of hope at the moment.

On a lighter note, is their any fun stereo types of Argentine people? Just like a playful one? 

39 minutes ago, Lio said:

So you confirm the story my friend who's recently been to Canada (not the big cities) told me. He was really appalled by things he saw there regarding the treatment of indigenous people. Laws are in place to respect or honour the indigenous people, in ways that look absurd to outsiders like us, but if you look at what actually happens in real life, it comes down to being just hypocrite basically.

It's funny, like you say, certainly now with Trudeau we get this image of Canada being this hospitable, social and warm (not literally though) country, but the situation for indigenous people seems much the same as in places like US and Australia.

I think you're spot on. The notion is that we have Treaties and supports in place. The reality is that theres plenty of non-treaty land, some of which is unceded, settler-occupied territory. And most of the Treaties wouldnt hold up in court because they are premised on lies. Also most of the content of Treaties isnt even honoured. Though I should note that there are professional class people living comfortably on some reserves, there are also reserves that are completely destitute in the material sense, and only the government is to blame for the shotty infrastructure. And the cities are full of settlers with many unchecked biases or even overt racism. Plus structural issues with policing and social services that pose a fatal risk to indigenous people.

Trudeau actually resides and works on unceded Algonquin territory. The capital city is on a huge tract of unceded, un-surrendered land. I think its good he's in power at a time when Indigenous people have organized such successful education and resistance to make indigenous justice a fixture in the national discourse, but the idea that he might do some good while sitting on militarily occupied land of the Algonquins really does highlight how far we have to go.

Im happy, so to speak, to hear that your friend noted that all was not well and spread the word. I forget if I know what country you live in?

[killuridols]

25 minutes ago, soon said:

The reason the infrastructure of the Reserves is inadequate and falling apart is because they simply weren't built to last. Following that truth to its logical conclusion we can see that Indigenous people were meant to have been killed, imprisoned or assimilated by now, in the mind of the Settler establishment. But theres this glimmer of hope at the moment.

Here our natural resources have been invaded by northamerican millionaires or european millionaires and they don't want any indigenous people around either. Like, the Patagonia is not even ours anymore, most land belong to those millionaires.... omg, there's one who even bought part of a river! and they don't let you in, if as a tourist you want to go visiting your own fuckin' country, these guys put a door with a lock and a "private property" sign, so you're not meant to go in, even when there's a river that should not belong to any particular person.

The problem with the land is big and for indigenous people, they were given just a little piece and they are fighting for more, but what can they do against millionaire bankers? On top of that, they brive the police so to keep them natives away.

It is only recently that thanks to a centre-left turn in the region (the last two decades), the problem with the natives has made it to the big media agenda, but natives here were considered (and still are) crap that you must get rid of because they (in the mind of some people) do not  make any contributions and keeps us in the past

35 minutes ago, soon said:

On a lighter note, is their any fun stereo types of Argentine people? Just like a playful one? 

I don't know if its a playful one but yeah, there's a stereotype that is been widespread by other countries of the region and that is that Argentines are basically arrogant idiots who think of themselves as Europeans and dismiss the rest of Latinamerica, oftenly putting them down, especially when it comes to culture.

They also say that when we speak it sounds like we are insulting and screaming at others, lol, but that's because our accent is pretty distinctive and different from the rest of the Spanish spoken in the region. We sound like Italians and we use a particular kind of slang that derives from italian, as well as the use of hand gestures and other body language.

Here's a video for you to grasp the idea of it.... it's quite funny....

 

[Lio]

31 minutes ago, soon said:

I think you're spot on. The notion is that we have Treaties and supports in place. The reality is that theres plenty of non-treaty land, some of which is unceded, settler-occupied territory. And most of the Treaties wouldnt hold up in court because they are premised on lies. Also most of the content of Treaties isnt even honoured. Though I should note that there are professional class people living comfortably on some reserves, there are also reserves that are completely destitute in the material sense, and only the government is to blame for the shotty infrastructure. And the cities are full of settlers with many unchecked biases or even overt racism. Plus structural issues with policing and social services that pose a fatal risk to indigenous people.

Trudeau actually resides and works on unceded Algonquin territory. The capital city is on a huge tract of unceded, un-surrendered land. I think its good he's in power at a time when Indigenous people have organized such successful education and resistance to make indigenous justice a fixture in the national discourse, but the idea that he might do some good while sitting on militarily occupied land of the Algonquins really does highlight how far we have to go.

Im happy, so to speak, to hear that your friend noted that all was not well and spread the word. I forget if I know what country you live in?

I'm from Belgium

My friend was at a conference in Canada and the law or treaty I was talking about, is that an indigenous person has to be given a platform, so they have to invite an indigenous person to give a speech and bless the conference or whatever (forgive me, I only know what he told me of that). So they invited an elder to do just that, only to find the poor guy, upon arrival at the place where he was supposed to hold a speech, had been thrown out of the venue by security. So they had to go out and fetch him back.

It seemed to my friend many indigenous people had a drinking problem (reminded me of aboriginals in Australia) and they were regarded as second class citizens. Like you say, a lot of overt racism going in, the above incident only one example.

I'd only heard this one story up till now. Other people I know who visited Canada, never mentioned any of that. I guess it's different if you only visit big cities or just take a road trip through the Rocky Mountains. But after hearing yours, it's only more proof of no country being immune to racism and discrimination, and no one has reason to feel morally superior to any other country.

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, Lio said:

I'm from Belgium

What? I thought you were Dutch... I've been wasting all my Belgian jokes on Action...

[soon]

44 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Here our natural resources have been invaded by northamerican millionaires or european millionaires and they don't want any indigenous people around either. Like, the Patagonia is not even ours anymore, most land belong to those millionaires.... omg, there's one who even bought part of a river! and they don't let you in, if as a tourist you want to go visiting your own fuckin' country, these guys put a door with a lock and a "private property" sign, so you're not meant to go in, even when there's a river that should not belong to any particular person.

The problem with the land is big and for indigenous people, they were given just a little piece and they are fighting for more, but what can they do against millionaire bankers? On top of that, they brive the police so to keep them natives away.

It is only recently that thanks to a centre-left turn in the region (the last two decades), the problem with the natives has made it to the big media agenda, but natives here were considered (and still are) crap that you must get rid of because they (in the mind of some people) do not  make any contributions and keeps us in the past

Thats disgusting. Do the foreign millionaires have greater access and control through IMF impositions? Was there IMF provisions to denationalize the lands? That must be heartbreaking to see those fences and signs go up. Especially for a Native.

I really hope that the trend towards understanding native struggle and media coverage continues. I think that anywhere it will be slow and painful, but I can say that here we can almost see some changes from a movement started n 2011-ish called Idle No More. In addition to a Truth and Reconciliation process and investigation into how police fail to handle cases of missing and murdered Indigenous people. 

Those racist myths are the fuel of colonization. Hopefully the increased media coverage will highlight the racism and force people to take a good look at themselves and their prejudices.

45 minutes ago, killuridols said:

 

I don't know if its a playful one but yeah, there's a stereotype that is been widespread by other countries of the region and that is that Argentines are basically arrogant idiots who think of themselves as Europeans and dismiss the rest of Latinamerica, oftenly putting them down, especially when it comes to culture.

They also say that when we speak it sounds like we are insulting and screaming at others, lol, but that's because our accent is pretty distinctive and different from the rest of the Spanish spoken in the region. We sound like Italians and we use a particular kind of slang that derives from italian, as well as the use of hand gestures and other body language.

Here's a video for you to grasp the idea of it.... it's quite funny....

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That video is hilarious! Uh-oh, now my brain is trying to fit you into that stereotype! Are you ever draped in a flag as you type?  j/k

I think I can get it. Reminds me of interactions with some Quebecois or Eastern European people. 

[soon]

1 hour ago, Lio said:

I'm from Belgium

My friend was at a conference in Canada and the law or treaty I was talking about, is that an indigenous person has to be given a platform, so they have to invite an indigenous person to give a speech and bless the conference or whatever (forgive me, I only know what he told me of that). So they invited an elder to do just that, only to find the poor guy, upon arrival at the place where he was supposed to hold a speech, had been thrown out of the venue by security. So they had to go out and fetch him back.

It seemed to my friend many indigenous people had a drinking problem (reminded me of aboriginals in Australia) and they were regarded as second class citizens. Like you say, a lot of overt racism going in, the above incident only one example.

I'd only heard this one story up till now. Other people I know who visited Canada, never mentioned any of that. I guess it's different if you only visit big cities or just take a road trip through the Rocky Mountains. But after hearing yours, it's only more proof of no country being immune to racism and discrimination, and no one has reason to feel morally superior to any other country.

Belgium - thank you for the chocolate! But I must admit I have no idea whats supposed to be so special about those waffles?! Like, theres not even maple syrup on them 

A "Land Acknowledgement" naming the Land and its People while giving thanks for allowing our presence on their land is increasingly becoming common, whether its institutionally enforced or just by good will. And a blessing by an Elder is a bit less common, but also increasing.

That story, while horrific, is pretty much a daily occurrence. The security guard would just have a built in fear or sense of a duty to enforce against any indigenous person. Like in that case the thinking would possibly  be "how could that gutter trash have any business here?" But unlike US with Blackness, its not discussed how that prejudiced security measure is a problem.

Indigenous people have been left to die in the waiting area of the Emergency Department at the hospital because it was just assumed they were "just drunk" and not sober but dying . Its also why disappearances dont get investigated - they say "Oh they were probably drunk and fell in the river."

Its difficult to do justice to the issue of addiction among Indigenous people. Because on one hand the intergenerational trauma of colonization, isolation and especially the State projects that removed children from their families to force them not residential schools (to "take the Indian out of the Child") or the 60's scoop of forced adoptions into white homes, not to mention forced sterilizations give ample cause for one to fall into addiction. But at the same time the racist notion that they all are drunks couldnt be more removed from the reality of it. Drink is no more an issue for indigenous people then it is in the hard rock community. Just in one case its demonized and in the other case its celebrated.

Edited August 19, 2018 by soon