golden state killer

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

All of this is moot as soon as you realize I am talking about non-functional DNA sequences that cannot be used to extract any biological information about the person.

I wouldn't trust the British state with my middle name. 

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

Thats just basically relying on apathy, people will eventually stop giving a fuck about everything if they've got hot running water, 500 cable channels and a comfy bed, thats not the point though is it, the point is the overall effect on society.

There are two ways this can be implemented: 1) Against people's will but they are so complacent that they can't bother to protest much; or apathy I suppose; and 2) because people realize this will make their lives, and their children's lives, much better.

I believe the latter will be the main reason compulsory DNA databanks will become the norm in this decade. 

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

i ain't there by choice, i got fuckin' nicked and they take you indoors and take your prints (on this nifty little machine too, which was about 500 times more fuckin' complicated than an ink pad.  Apparently i kept smudging it.  Then they take this fuckin' little strip thing and rub it on the inside of your cheek and stick it in a plastic bag, if i'd've had a choice i'd've told em to go fuck themselves.

And CCTV dont do fuckin' shit to stop a lot of crime, all you've got to do is dodge the cameras and the only solution to that is to have cameras on literally every fuckin' street in the country.  One of my mates used to serve up by a camera outside a multi story car park   Like literally underneath it was where we would go to pick up.  Hiding in plain sight as it were.  Apparently they rarely point downwards.  From my younger days, though this has probably changed now, we used to know where every camera was in town so you knew that if you got into grief which road or alley would be the best one to slip down to avoid detection, they really don't do shit except make you think a little more.  I could still tell you where most of the cameras are in town, I mean you can hardly miss em. 

The average reduction of crime due to CCTV is 16 % [https://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/surveillance-cameras-and-crime]

Nonetheless, I didn't point to CCTV to argue for the crime-reducing effect of compulsory DNA databanks, but to its acceptance by the public. 

[Len Cnut]

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The average reduction of crime due to CCTV is 16 % [https://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/surveillance-cameras-and-crime]

Nonetheless, I didn't point to CCTV to argue for the crime-reducing effect of compulsory DNA databanks, but to its acceptance by the public. 

Don't see much like crime is reducing in Old London town, quite the opposite actually.

[DieselDaisy]

I don't agree with them either, CC TV. Far too much of it. 

[SoulMonster]

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I wouldn't trust the British state with my middle name. 

That's a good analogy, actually. Your middle name can probably say more about your propensity to develop certain diseases, your salary, your address, your life expectancy, etc, than the DNA sequences that I am arguing should be used in compulsory DNA registers. Because while there is a correlation between certain names and these things (like people named Johnny having a higher probability of being a criminal in New York than any other name), the non-functional DNA sequences I have in mind are entirely random, yet unique to each individual. They are as unlikely to be used for malign purposes as your finger prints. There are simply no connection between these sequences and anything else about you. But while it is easy to avoid leaving finger prints at a crime scene, it is much harder to avoid leaving biological material than can be used to extract a DNA profile, especially as our methods for DNA isolation, amplification, and sequencing become more advanced and cost-efficient.

[Len Cnut]

I ain't got a middle name!

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

Don't see much like crime is reducing in Old London town, quite the opposite actually.

Even if CCTV is Old London town reduces crime with about 15 %, the overall crime can still increase due to other factors.

[DieselDaisy]

A lot of Bond plot lines have Spectre or Smersh or some evil organisation chasing a missing dossier on all the 00 agents, all their information to bump them off. All they would really have to do is follow a government MP from his ''whiskey lunch'', and wait for him to accidentally leave his briefcase behind on a Virgin train.

Or maybe after he has been ''dogging'' with a rent boy on Clapham Common haha

PS

I should mention that whether it be a whiskey lunch, or a rent boy, it would all be ''at tax-payers expence'' of course - goes without saying. 

Edited April 28, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[SoulMonster]

@Len Cnut and @DieselDaisy

If you are principally against allowing non-functional segments of your DNA to be included in national, forensic DNA databanks, does that mean you will also not travel to countries like USA and Canada where you, upon entry, will have your fingerprints taken? Again, it is as likely that your fingerprints can be used for any ill purpose as the DNA sequences that I talk about, and that likelihood is close to zero.

[Len Cnut]

7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

@Len Cnut and @DieselDaisy

If you are principally against allowing non-functional segments of your DNA to be included in national, forensic DNA databanks, does that mean you will also not travel to countries like USA and Canada where you, upon entry, will have your fingerprints taken? Again, it is as likely that your fingerprints can be used for any ill purpose as the DNA sequences that I talk about, and that likelihood is close to zero.

Well in that instance, as with instances of arrest, you don't have a choice do you?  The point is that its just excessive.  Or I feel its excessive.  One of the things I've always loved about America, or the America people anyway, is their staunch belief in the rights of the individual and that the government shouldn't meddle in the affairs of the common man.  Those are wonderful principles I feel. 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Len Cnut

[SoulMonster]

Just now, Len Cnut said:

Well in that instance, as with instances of arrest, you don't have a choice do you? 

You can choose to not travel to USA for vacation? Or are you arguing that vacationing in USA is more important to you than your objection to having the government acquire non-functional samples from people?

[Kwick1]

24 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

All of this is moot as soon as you realize I am talking about non-functional DNA sequences that cannot be used to extract any biological information about the person.

I agree if it were set up as you say. My issue wouldn't be with law enforcement use of DNA and its database but I don't trust the US govt. my issue today is with Ancestry.com. Ancestry.com apparently believes as FB did that what's important is connecting regardless the cost. 

Would I want to submit my DNA to the govt? He'll no. I don't trust my govt and I sure as hell would never voluntarily submit my DNA to any company. I'm really surprised that so many do this. 

As for Right to Privacy. Let's be honest, people don't care about that right. Look at FaceBook and all of social media. There is no more Privacy and people voluntarily give it up. 

[Len Cnut]

Quote

You can choose to not travel to USA for vacation?

Which eliminates the premise altogether but what I mean is if one is intent on doing so then its something you'll have to put up with.

Quote

Or are you arguing that vacationing in USA is more important to you than your objection to having the government acquire non-functional samples from people?

It would depend on your reason for going there, whether it was a vacation or something more pressing. 

[DieselDaisy]

Soul means, if you ever want to do the ''Elvis tour'', Graceland etc., some obese jarhead called Chuck will bum you at immigration.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Kwick1 said:

I agree if it were set up as you say. My issue wouldn't be with law enforcement use of DNA and its database but I don't trust the US govt. my issue today is with Ancestry.com. Ancestry.com apparently believes as FB did that what's important is connecting regardless the cost. 

Would I want to submit my DNA to the govt? He'll no. I don't trust my govt and I sure as hell would never voluntarily submit my DNA to any company. I'm really surprised that so many do this. 

As for Right to Privacy. Let's be honest, people don't care about that right. Look at FaceBook and all of social media. There is no more Privacy and people voluntarily give it up. 

I would only accept it if it was based on non-functional sequences. That is my premise.

The ancestry.com thing is interesting. It is obvious, as you say, that people really don't care about right to privacy.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Which eliminates the premise altogether but what I mean is if one is intent on doing so then its something you'll have to put up with.

So knowing that the US government insist on taking your fingerprints upon entry, would you still travel there for vacation? I am simply curious to know how ingrained your resistance to this is.

I wouldn't be surprised if more countries would start doing this, it has become a quite speedy process these last years. What then, would people who strongly object to giving away non-functional personal data stop travelling abroad? Seems to me a bit silly, really.

[Len Cnut]

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Soul means, if you ever want to do the ''Elvis tour'', Graceland etc., some obese jarhead called Chuck will bum you at immigration.

Would I take a bumming for Elvis, hmm, well...I mean, he is the King after all   Not really a big one for these nostalgia tours if I'm honest or else I'd've popped up The Pool and had a butchers at Menlove Ave and The Cavern and all that.  'And this is where John used to have his tea', yeahhh, I give a fuck.

[Kwick1]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I would only accept it if it was based on non-functional sequences. That is my premise.

The ancestry.com thing is interesting. It is obvious, as you say, that people really don't care about right to privacy.

Exactly, in the US, there would be outrage over mandatory DNA submittal but those same people submit their DNA to a private company? 

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

Would I take a bumming for Elvis, hmm, well...I mean, he is the King after all   Not really a big one for these nostalgia tours if I'm honest or else I'd've popped up The Pool and had a butchers at Menlove Ave and The Cavern and all that.  'And this is where John used to have his tea', yeahhh, I give a fuck.

You can re-create the Spinal Tap scene, singing Heartbreak Hotel at his grave. 

That is if he is the one that is even in there?

[Len Cnut]

Quote

So knowing that the US government insist on taking your fingerprints upon entry, would you still travel there for vacation? I am simply curious to know how ingrained your resistance to this is.

I really couldn't say, probably wouldn't be bothered to be honest, my fingerprints are enough other places and I'm not some kind of 'off the grid' nerd who won't use an Oyster Card because 'they'll know where you've been maaaaan', I just think its excessive as I've previously stated.  But being a brown person of my particular ancestory I'd probably have to think about it in the case of America.  I'm a proud sort of chappie you see and I don't really care to go places where I'm not welcome and if being interrogated by the aforementioned Chuck like I was fuckin' Carlos the Jackal is the price to pay for entry to America then, hmm, I dunno, I might have to think long and hard about whether or not it was worth it.  After all, a man doesn't have much else but his dignity.

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You can re-create the Spinal Tap scene, singing Heartbreak Hotel at his grave. 

That is if he is the one that is even in there?

Steve Jones took a slash on it  

[SoulMonster]

Just now, Kwick1 said:

Exactly, in the US, there would be outrage over mandatory DNA submittal but those same people submit their DNA to a private company? 

Because when they submit to the private company they do it by their own choice and reap some benefit (geneaology research), and not because it is a governmental directive, I suppose. They also perhaps trust private companies, at least ancestry.com, more than they trust US government. But yeah, it is a paradox and just shows that human behaviour is usually driven by simpler things like self-gratification and fear and distrust, than lofty principles.

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Len Cnut said:

some kind of 'off the grid' nerd who won't use an Oyster Card because 'they'll know where you've been maaaaan'

Why must you always mention me in these conversations?

[Len Cnut]

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Why must you always mention me in these conversations?

Cuz i fancy you.

[SoulMonster]

5 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I really couldn't say, probably wouldn't be bothered to be honest, my fingerprints are enough other places and I'm not some kind of 'off the grid' nerd who won't use an Oyster Card because 'they'll know where you've been maaaaan', I just think its excessive as I've previously stated.  But being a brown person of my particular ancestory I'd probably have to think about it in the case of America.  I'm a proud sort of chappie you see and I don't really care to go places where I'm not welcome and if being interrogated by the aforementioned Chuck like I was fuckin' Carlos the Jackal is the price to pay for entry to America then, hmm, I dunno, I might have to think long and hard about whether or not it was worth it.  After all, a man doesn't have much else but his dignity.

If there is any consolation, Chuck interrogates a white boy like me, too.

Excessive? Not if it actually results in less crime and that criminals are caught quicker, well, the there is nothing excessive about it (talking about compulsory DNA databank now, not US customs standards).

Edited April 28, 2018 by SoulMonster