Len Cnut Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Quote If there is any consolation, Chuck interrogates a white boy like me, too. If world reknowned millionaire Bollywood actors like Shah Rukh Khan get 5 hour long interrogations and other actors like Riz Ahmed, God knows what they'd do with a cunt like me Quote Excessive? Not if it actually results in less crime and that criminals are caught quicker, well, the there is nothing excessive about it (talking about compulsory DNA databank now, not US customs standards). Well you could argue this, couldn't you? Lots of things would result in less crime that are excessive, it all boils down to ones interpretation of what is or isn't excessive and we've a worlds worth of disparity of opinion on this subject. Saudi Arabia for instance don't feel chopping a tea leafs hands off is excessive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Well you could argue this, couldn't you? Lots of things would result in less crime that are excessive, it all boils down to ones interpretation of what is or isn't excessive and we've a worlds worth of disparity of opinion on this subject. Saudi Arabia for instance don't feel chopping a tea leafs hands off is excessive. True, I just don't see how if some blood was saved -- after customary blood tests at births -- and used to build up national or international databases of non-functional DNA sequences that would drastically reduce crime and result in crimes being solved quicker, it could be described as "excessive" by anyone. There would be no burden on our part and there would be virtually no risk of any misuse. "Excessive" is more an expression I would use when the benefits to society are small compared to the costs to individuals. Edited April 28, 2018 by SoulMonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: True, I just don't see how if some blood was saved -- after customary blood tests at births -- and used to build up national or international databases of non-functional DNA sequences that would drastically reduce crime and result in crimes being solved quicker, could be described as "excessive" by anyone. There would be no burden on our part and there would be virtually no risk of any misuse. "Excessive" is more an expression I would use when the benefits to society are small compared to the costs to individuals. I couldn't really comment, a proposal of this sort, as far as the limits of my understanding take me, would be quite a large undertaking, how would it all work? How can you accurately guage the results as 'drastic'? As a database logging everyones DNA, how would that work, how would it be stored, how, in the instance of a crime, would all this shit be cross referenced, how swift would it be, how much would the whole thing cost, I don't know the answers to all these questions so i don't feel I'm equipped to hold too strong an opinion on the matter, not without knowing all the in's and out's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 They are a bit funny about people with criminal records entering the United States irrespective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: They are a bit funny about people with criminal records entering the United States irrespective. I believe the exact wording is crimes involving 'moral turpitude'. My actual convictions are for drink driving but I've been arrested a number of times too, I dunno how that might reflect. Nothing too bad, the odd scuffle here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: I believe the exact wording is crimes involving 'moral turpitude'. My actual convictions are for drink driving but I've been arrested a number of times too, I dunno how that might reflect. Nothing too bad, the odd scuffle here and there. Chuck wouldn't be too impressed with the recent Pakistan stamps in your passport either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Chuck wouldn't be too impressed with the recent Pakistan stamps in your passport either. Exactly! I'd best give it a miss I think! I've made it 34 years without a finger up the bumhole and I'd very much enjoy it if I could see out the rest of my days in a similar fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Just now, Len Cnut said: I couldn't really comment, a proposal of this sort, as far as the limits of my understanding take me, would be quite a large undertaking, how would it all work? How can you accurately guage the results as 'drastic'? As a database logging everyones DNA, how would that work, how would it be stored, how, in the instance of a crime, would all this shit be cross referenced, how swift would it be, how much would the whole thing cost, I don't know the answers to all these questions so i don't feel I'm equipped to hold too strong an opinion on the matter, not without knowing all the in's and out's. I won't spend to much time on going through it. There would naturally be costs involved. Not so much in the sampling, per person those costs are very small (the blood is already taken, it then just needs to be transferred to a laboratory where a technician would amplify the non-functional DNA sequences and have them sequenced). Then it is just a matter of storing this digital sequence information in a database. So a server with some maintenance. So all this is trivial and would cost next to nothing. The real costs comes in implementing regulatory frameworks that would result in only some qualified personnel having access to the database, and knowing how to use it. Security and ethics. We are talking about national laws and stuff. Lastly, there would be lots of costs involved in sampling DNA from crime scenes, but this is mostly done already. In the future more advanced methods will be applied, but only because the system has been shown to be a success. On the plus side, it would mean that many crimes would be solved quicker, leading to huge savings in lengthy forensic work. resources would be freed for the police to not only investigate cases they now don't have time for, but also to put in more time on cases that are unsolved. This would likely negate all the costs above. Then comes the unmonetary value of people living in societies with less crime and where crimes are solved with higher success rate and much more rapidly. The costs would be minimal compared to the advantages. But detailed analysis of this will neturally be developed before there will be political will to implement it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: I won't spend to much time on going through it. There would naturally be costs involved. Not so much in the sampling, per person those costs are very small (the blood is already taken, it then just needs to be transferred to a laboratory where a technician would amplify the non-functional DNA sequences and have them sequenced). Then it is just a matter of storing this digital sequence information in a database. So a server with some maintenance. So all this is trivial and would cost next to nothing. The real costs comes in implementing regulatory frameworks that would result in only some qualified personnel having access to the database, and knowing how to use it. Security and ethics. We are talking about national laws and stuff. Lastly, there would be lots of costs involved in sampling DNA from crime scenes, but this is mostly done already. In the future more advanced methods will be applied, but only because the system has been shown to be a success. On the plus side, it would mean that many crimes would be solved quicker, leading to huge savings in lengthy forensic work. resources would be freed for the police to not only investigate cases they now don't have time for, but also to put in more time on cases that are unsolved. This would likely negate all the costs above. Then comes the unmonetary value of people living in societies with less crime and where crimes are solved with higher success rate and much more rapidly. The costs would be minimal compared to the advantages. But detailed analysis of this will neturally be developed before there will be political will to implement it. Well it certainly sounds worthy of consideration. The security and ethics bit got my attention. I mean if its as benign as you've been suggesting what could anyone do with it, what are the possible unethical uses it might fall prey to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: They are a bit funny about people with criminal records entering the United States irrespective. To travel to the US from Norway you have to have an ESTA (it's basically a VISA), and when applying for ESTA you have to answer the following question: * Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a crime that resulted in serious damage to property, or serious harm to another person or government authority? * Have you ever violated any law related to possessing, using, or distributing illegal drugs? * Do you seek to engage in or have you ever engaged in terrorist activities, espionage, sabotage, or genocide? * Have you ever committed fraud or misrepresented yourself or others to obtain, or assist others to obtain, a visa or entry into the United States? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Exactly! I'd best give it a miss I think! I've made it 34 years without a finger up the bumhole and I'd very much enjoy it if I could see out the rest of my days in a similar fashion. I've never been to the United States either. Never fancied it to be honest, but then I'm not really into travelling as much as I used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I've never been to the United States either. Never fancied it to be honest, but then I'm not really into travelling as much as I used to. I'd like to travel, just never gotten around to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Len Cnut said: Well it certainly sounds worthy of consideration. The security and ethics bit got my attention. I mean if its as benign as you've been suggesting what could anyone do with it, what are the possible unethical uses it might fall prey to? Well, we cannot hope to convince the general populace that the sequences truly are safe and cannot be misused*, that would require people to generally understand the science bit or to trust the governments -- something which they don't typically do. So to allay any residual fears among those that object to the implementation of national forensic DNA databanks, one would have to restrict access to the database. * We haven't talked about geneaology, but it is likely that the information in these non-functional could still be used to study heritage and hence could for paternity tests and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Just now, Len Cnut said: I'd like to travel, just never gotten around to it. I went to Greece last year and hated every second of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I went to Greece last year and hated every second of it. Why? Thought you'd love Greece, all that history and that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Just now, Len Cnut said: Why? Thought you'd love Greece, all that history and that. I never got anywhere (it was Crete and I wanted to visit the palace of Knossos). Genuine ''holiday from hell''. Don't ask. Just stay at home. It is easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 the government takes away half our income in taxes, and that is all fine, but we don't agree with our DNA being used to catch serial killers. think about that one for a minute. I mean, it's not like they're going to do much with your DNA, apart from catching the bad guys, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 I might be going to Arundel to watch my boys get beaten. Do northerners require passports and visas to go that far south? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I might be going to Arundel to watch my boys get beaten. Do northerners require passports and visas to go that far south? I could quite comfortably live the rest of my life within the bounds of the tube map to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I never got anywhere (it was Crete and I wanted to visit the palace of Knossos). Genuine ''holiday from hell''. Don't ask. Just stay at home. It is easier. Traveler's diarrhea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: I could quite comfortably live the rest of my life within the bounds of the tube map to be honest. There is something wrong with the tube. It shoots you out in a different part of London and you never know how all the parts join together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Just now, SoulMonster said: Traveler's diarrhea? That would be easily curable with an imodium. The hotel, which looked like something out of a sci-fi film, all characterless glass and modernity, was full of gay millionaires getting back sacks and cracks and drinking cocktails. Horrible soulless place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: That would be easily curable with an imodium. The hotel, which looked like something out of a sci-fi film, all characterless glass and modernity, was full of gay millionaires getting back sacks and cracks and drinking cocktails. Horrible soulless place. Similar to my experience when visiting Zakynthos in Greece. As soulless as what you described but a large touristy village full of neon bars and tattoo parlors brimming with dirty hippies and scorched, drunk brits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 I have not drunk lager since late last summer. Mythos. Yack. It is all Greece has!! It has put me off lager for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Len Cnut said: If world reknowned millionaire Bollywood actors like Shah Rukh Khan get 5 hour long interrogations and other actors like Riz Ahmed, God knows what they'd do with a cunt like me Well you could argue this, couldn't you? Lots of things would result in less crime that are excessive, it all boils down to ones interpretation of what is or isn't excessive and we've a worlds worth of disparity of opinion on this subject. Saudi Arabia for instance don't feel chopping a tea leafs hands off is excessive. World reknowned or Bollywood actor? Come on man? You can’t have both! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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