What exactly slash told the media that pissed Axl so much?

[Stress Fracture]

“If you apologise for saying this band is now run like a dictatorship, I’ll give you a new contract.”

[MCollins]

2 hours ago, WWEROSES said:

While I'm glad that we have the band back together (sorta) and I did enjoy the New GN'R era for what little we got out of it...when I sit and think about it, it is truly depressing that this band...whom had the entire rock world lit on fire in the from the late 80s to early 90s...just vanish without much word until years later...I remember a SNL skit with David Spade doing a news report...saying the lines "where is Axl Rose?" I believe it was around  95. Just thinking of all the wasted potential, all the good music that they all could of worked on together if Axl had not become so paranoid. One has to wonder what was happening to him physiologically during those years where he would become so secluded, doing everything on his own terms...even if he probably didn't know what those terms were til the exact moment. Even years later you have to wonder how true everything was thats been said about him. Have the ex band members/current embellish a little bit and their judgement and recollections of the events clouded by all the drugs/booze they were downing? who knows... Thankfully we have what we have now...lets just hope this isn't it once they decide to wrap the tour up...lets hope new music is on the horizon and not just them sailing off into the sunset.

Similarly I remember the Christmas special of Raw magazine in '91, making comedy predictions for the coming year, and they wrote, "July - Axl sacks the entire band of Guns n' Roses, and continues by himself as "n' Rose"  I just thought it was hilarious at the time and never gave a second's consideration to its credibility.

[T-Minus]

The short answer is most likely to be "The Truth".

 

[ludurigan]

On 19/07/2018 at 8:28 PM, NeonKinight said:

So, Marc Canter said that Axl kinda "wanted" Slash back in 2001, IF he had apologized for what he said to the media.

What was that?

I suppose you have to be a bit naive to believe that whatever problems in GNR that caused Slash to leave and that prevented Axl to play with him in 2001 or whenever have anything to do with something "Slash told to the media".

Slash telling anything to the media was AFTER the shit had already happened

Slash actually covered up a LOT of Axl bullshit prima donna crap specially during the Illusion tour, likely because it was convenient for him

[Ace Nova]

On 7/20/2018 at 8:23 AM, Blackstar said:

I think with Slash it hurt more because it was like a marriage and a divorce. They both have made this comparison in their interviews and they haven't made it about anyone else (although Axl's and Izzy's relationship was closer to a real friendship and Axl was hurt about it too). Izzy and Duff were friends Axl had fallen out with, Slash was the equivalent to an ex.

I think this has a lot to do with it.  The musical relationship between a lead singer and a lead guitarist is typically the quintessential sound of a rock band.  Nothing against any other musicians in a band but in most rock bands, changing the lead singer or the lead guitarist will drastically change the sound of the band.   Axl knew that if he lost Slash, the band would sound different, no matter how hard he tried to replace that sound.  And If I remember correctly, Axl mentioned that losing Slash had a lot to do with the direction he went with Nu Guns in terms of "sound".

 

 

[Blackstar]

10 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

I think this has a lot to do with it.  The musical relationship between a lead singer and a lead guitarist is typically the quintessential sound of a rock band.  Nothing against any other musicians in a band but in most rock bands, changing the lead singer or the lead guitarist will drastically change the sound of the band.   Axl knew that if he lost Slash, the band would sound different, no matter how hard he tried to replace that sound.  And If I remember correctly, Axl mentioned that losing Slash had a lot to do with the direction he went with Nu Guns in terms of "sound".

In a video interview from 1996, Slash said Axl was telling him that his guitar made any song GnR. And Slash didn't agree with that, because his guitar was on Lenny Kravitz, MJ and other people's songs and it wasn't GnR. But apparently Axl meant that any song with Slash and himself on was GnR.

[GnR Chris]

Anything most of us have to say is pure speculation at this point.

Slash presented a media narrative post-GNR and since Axl was considered the "recluse" for not doing any media appearances, Slash's side of of the story became fact. He continued on to big success and kept his name brand front and center while GNR were in the studio writing and recording Chinese Democracy and then doing tours in the 2000s.

It was easier for GNR fans to blame Axl for "holding Slash and Duff hostage" prior to a live show and "forcing them to sign over GNR." That's not actually true, and in fact was proven false. Then you had Velvet Revolver come out with three guys from the Illusions era and you had fans deciding it was "more GNR" than "whatever Axl is doing with his hired guns."

Using the media to push your own agenda is the same thing you can sort of see now with Adler and to a lesser extent Izzy.

Adler is out there disparaging GNR and pushing for a "real" reunion and some fans are on board: "Yeah, why is Axl such a prick? Why won't he let Adler back in the band? He deserves it."

And Izzy was out there saying GNR didn't want to share the loot. But because he's gone quiet since. there hasn't been as much to-do about it. 

But think back to the days when Slash was out there constantly being asked about a GNR reunion. He slanted the story to make himself look better. Maybe to try to strong-arm Axl into letting him back into the band. Was Slash quitting a power play because he didn't think GNR would or could continue without him? Without Axl really caring to provide his side of things in those years, it tarnished Axl's rep. Could this be what Axl wanted him to apologize for? Who knows! But Slash was definitely out there perpetuating myth in regards to how and why he lost rights to GNR.

Edited July 21, 2018 by GnR Chris

[D..]

When you are in a band with a lot of potential, you expect certain things from people in the band. More than anything, you expect loyalty. Like, not performing with some people (for various reasons), and not going solo.

I think Slash performing with Michael Jackson upset Axl. I know it would've upset me.

Also, Slash putting out a solo record with some songs that could've been interesting for Guns N' Roses. My guess is Axl takes his time to do things properly, and Slash rushed his solo album.

Lastly, Slash badmouthed Axl during the 90's, making him look like a dictator. Axl answered this nonsense years later.

There a lot of reasons why Axl felt like he felt. Now, time has passed, he has gained a lot of wisdom. It just sucks some people weren't as passionate as he was when the time was right. 

I love Slash solo work, but I always hate the vocalists on his albums. Myles Kennedy is a fucking catastrophe. Imagine if Axl was singing on all those tracks. Would be so much better. 

[felixGNR]

9 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

Anything most of us have to say is pure speculation at this point.

Slash presented a media narrative post-GNR and since Axl was considered the "recluse" for not doing any media appearances, Slash's side of of the story became fact. He continued on to big success and kept his name brand front and center while GNR were in the studio writing and recording Chinese Democracy and then doing tours in the 2000s.

It was easier for GNR fans to blame Axl for "holding Slash and Duff hostage" prior to a live show and "forcing them to sign over GNR." That's not actually true, and in fact was proven false. Then you had Velvet Revolver come out with three guys from the Illusions era and you had fans deciding it was "more GNR" than "whatever Axl is doing with his hired guns."

Using the media to push your own agenda is the same thing you can sort of see now with Adler and to a lesser extent Izzy.

Adler is out there disparaging GNR and pushing for a "real" reunion and some fans are on board: "Yeah, why is Axl such a prick? Why won't he let Adler back in the band? He deserves it."

And Izzy was out there saying GNR didn't want to share the loot. But because he's gone quiet since. there hasn't been as much to-do about it. 

But think back to the days when Slash was out there constantly being asked about a GNR reunion. He slanted the story to make himself look better. Maybe to try to strong-arm Axl into letting him back into the band. Was Slash quitting a power play because he didn't think GNR would or could continue without him? Without Axl really caring to provide his side of things in those years, it tarnished Axl's rep. Could this be what Axl wanted him to apologize for? Who knows! But Slash was definitely out there perpetuating myth in regards to how and why he lost rights to GNR.

what? read what izzy/duff/matt had to say back then, same thing as Slash, so 4 persons, (or 6  if you count both managers) are lying? whatever  Axl says is a fact?

Doug did try to push the hostage/no show situation. Fans decided that wasn't GNR back in 2002, also the record company rejecting the record in the early 00's.

those guys toned down the stories interviews in the later years, the only one trying to make himself look better was Axl, giving vague answers, etc.

[GnR Chris]

37 minutes ago, felixGNR said:

what? read what izzy/duff/matt had to say back then, same thing as Slash, so 4 persons, (or 6  if you count both managers) are lying? whatever  Axl says is a fact?

Doug did try to push the hostage/no show situation. Fans decided that wasn't GNR back in 2002, also the record company rejecting the record in the early 00's.

those guys toned down the stories interviews in the later years, the only one trying to make himself look better was Axl, giving vague answers, etc.

Duff and Slash both claimed they signed over the rights to GNR prior to a show to prevent a potential riot because Axl was refusing to go on stage till they signed. That's what I meant when I said their story was proven false. The "hostage" situation never happened.

And to your question, Weiland initially badmouthed Axl when likely Slash and Duff and Sorum filled his head with stories about Axl. But even he came back later to say:

"Originally I thought [of Axl]: “'What a troll he must have been. What an evil man.' But you know what? I have to say that I have an entirely different opinion of him today. That was a long time ago and I’d heard a lot of stories. But there are two sides to every story, and having been in [Velvet Revolver], I actually feel for the guy and understand him a whole lot more.

I think everyone was to blame for the splintering of the band in both the AFD and UYI lineups. But I think history has shown Axl's side of events to be more genuine or honest than the stories Slash and Duff told. But again, I'm not saying any ONE person was to blame. And I even started off my above comment by saying all we as fans can do is speculate. Like here's another speculation: I think Perla was a big part of the problem too.

Edited July 21, 2018 by GnR Chris

[soon]

Slash told that story about Axl sleeping on Slash's "Grandmama's" sofa. And that when asked not to do that, Axl jumped out of a moving car as his response. 

Axl told the story about a drunk Slash regularly passing out and pissing himself in front of groupies, whom Axl would then mash with.

That made it even, all things considered, and then NITL could commence. Prolly 

[Rovim]

perhaps one day, years from now, Axl will release a book and share his full side of the story. he did say that many of the things Slash wrote in his book never happened.

[GnR Chris]

13 minutes ago, Rovim said:

perhaps one day, years from now, Axl will release a book and share his full side of the story. he did say that many of the things Slash wrote in his book never happened.

An Axl-penned book telling his stories would be an amazing read. I just don't know that he cares or, rather, I think he values his privacy. I like that he's not so social-media driven and active on every media outlet there is. The mystery of celebrity is a dying act. I don't need to know much about my rock icons, you know? 

[TheGeneral]

14 minutes ago, Rovim said:

perhaps one day, years from now, Axl will release a book and share his full side of the story. he did say that many of the things Slash wrote in his book never happened.

I hope there will be another book, doesn't matter if Slash or Axl. I wanna know about every little detail, every word, every interaction that led to making the NITL tour happening.

[Tom-Ass]

52 minutes ago, D.. said:

When you are in a band with a lot of potential, you expect certain things from people in the band. More than anything, you expect loyalty. Like, not performing with some people (for various reasons), and not going solo.

I think Slash performing with Michael Jackson upset Axl. I know it would've upset me.

Also, Slash putting out a solo record with some songs that could've been interesting for Guns N' Roses. My guess is Axl takes his time to do things properly, and Slash rushed his solo album.

Lastly, Slash badmouthed Axl during the 90's, making him look like a dictator. Axl answered this nonsense years later.

There a lot of reasons why Axl felt like he felt. Now, time has passed, he has gained a lot of wisdom. It just sucks some people weren't as passionate as he was when the time was right. 

I love Slash solo work, but I always hate the vocalists on his albums. Myles Kennedy is a fucking catastrophe. Imagine if Axl was singing on all those tracks. Would be so much better. 

Slash Slash Slash... Duff, Izzy, Adlers, Matt, Gilby, past managers and other versions of the story pretty much align with him. Anyone with half a brain and no blinders that was a fan at the time knows can see Axl was largely to blame for the whole mess. It was either Duff or Izzy that actually called Axl a dictator in an interview.. Not Slash.. Slash also tried to reach out to Axl more than once. His wife would send him Xmas cards, he went to his house and was turned away, he went to a NuGuns show and was escorted out of the building. 

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

On 7/19/2018 at 7:37 PM, felixGNR said:

same things the other 3 members said ( izzy/duff/matt)

 

I think the difference was that Slash had the stature/star power such that his words carried more weight and swayed more opinions than Izzy/Duff/Matt.

I am sure it was unsettling/distracting to Axl that there was someone out there with the capability of damaging him and his continued efforts with Guns in the court of public opinion to such a degree. It’s almost as if the greatest moments the Chinese-era Guns could have were always 50% of what they could/should have been b/c of no Slash (and things Slash was saying). Could easily see where that would become an obsession for Axl- particularly when Slash quit and wasn’t fired...

Whatever the case- just very grateful they’re able to have a successful working/touring relationship these days- and anything else is icing IMHO...

[felixGNR]

1 hour ago, GnR Chris said:

Duff and Slash both claimed they signed over the rights to GNR prior to a show to prevent a potential riot because Axl was refusing to go on stage till they signed. That's what I meant when I said their story was proven false. The "hostage" situation never happened.

And to your question, Weiland initially badmouthed Axl when likely Slash and Duff and Sorum filled his head with stories about Axl. But even he came back later to say:

"Originally I thought [of Axl]: “'What a troll he must have been. What an evil man.' But you know what? I have to say that I have an entirely different opinion of him today. That was a long time ago and I’d heard a lot of stories. But there are two sides to every story, and having been in [Velvet Revolver], I actually feel for the guy and understand him a whole lot more.

I think everyone was to blame for the splintering of the band in both the AFD and UYI lineups. But I think history has shown Axl's side of events to be more genuine or honest than the stories Slash and Duff told. But again, I'm not saying any ONE person was to blame. And I even started off my above comment by saying all we as fans can do is speculate. Like here's another speculation: I think Perla was a big part of the problem too.

From Marc  Canter

 "don't know that much about this. No one ever told me about this stuff until I read it in Slash's book and then again in Duff's book. I do know that Slash has been wrong with dates before and that he sometimes mixes up dates. With that much Vodka and dope that went in him in those days is probably why. Duff seams to remember things a bit clearer than Slash but he could be off a bit too. About a year ago I was talking to Duff about some of the things that Axl thinks that Slash has lied about. The signing over of the band was the topic. I explained to him what I thought may have happened with a tour manger selling that fact that Axl won't go on stage with out them signing the papers. Duff said that it was put to them that way. The only difference is who knows if it was backstage before a gig. It could have been on a off day but that doesn't change the fact that Slash and Duff believed that if they didn't sign it then Axl wouldn't go on stage when ever the next gig would be. For all we know it could have been a month before the next gig. Also Axl may have not known when those papers were presented to Slash and Duff and I already know that Axl was not aware of what management said to Slash and Duff. Axl said that he never said that he wouldn't go on if they didn't sign and I believe him. The only thing I do know is that a few years ago Doug told me to tell Slash and Duff that he was sorry for the way he handled things on their behave.

None of this really matters because I believe if Slash and Duff had not signed those papers, the band would have broken up anyways because they would have never agreed on how to make the next record."

 

Scott was unreliable, management took his documents while the band was in europe,  because he didn't  want  to finish the tour, you can clearly see his erratic behavior on stage the last 3 months of the tour,

Plus  the shit he pulled on STP, for the 20th anniversary. Unforgivable.

[GnR Chris]

Not exactly saying Scott was credible. Just saying that look how his perspective changed before and after being in the band with Slash and Duff. Scott wasn't the only one battling addiction during VR. I believe both Slash and Duff relapsed.

[Blackstar]

20 minutes ago, felixGNR said:

"don't know that much about this. No one ever told me about this stuff until I read it in Slash's book and then again in Duff's book. I do know that Slash has been wrong with dates before and that he sometimes mixes up dates.

The problem with what Marc says here is that Slash doesn't say that in his book (only Duff says it in his own book) - actually he doesn't say anything about how he ended up signing the name clause in the partnership agreement.

Slash had talked about it in interviews before his book though. And he had given two different versions. In the earlier one (1995-96 interviews) he said he didn't know what the clause meant when he signed the document, that it was a "legal faux pas" and held the band's lawyers responsible for not informing him about the consequences. In the later one, he aligned with Duff's version and told the story about the pre-show blackmail (so he knew what he was signing but he was forced into it and didn't have a choice). And in his book, nothing.

There is also a problem with the dates. The signatures in the partnership agreement are from October 1992 (when the band was on a tour break). Duff (and Slash for a while) said they were forced to sign over the name by Doug Goldstein before the show in Barcelona 1993. Doug Goldstein insisted, in different interviews, that he wasn't there at the time and he was in America for the birth of his son. In 2015 (quoted in Mick Wall's book) he changed his story and said that he was there. And recently, on the GNR Central podcast, he went back to what he had said before and said he wasn't there. It's not impossible that the clause was added and typed over on the signed document later, but it's all very blurry.

It's not clear at all.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Blackstar

[Blackstar]

^^^^

There was also another clause in the partnership agreement, which kind of undercut the name clause and, according to Tom Zutaut, the lawyers and the label believed that it secured the band from breaking up.

Probably we'll never know the truth about the circumstances under which the document was signed. But if I had to speculate, I'd say that Slash and Duff were just convinced to sign because of that other clause. So I think that Slash's earlier version is the one closer to the truth, but it's not the entire truth.

[felixGNR]

3 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

^^^^

There was also another clause in the partnership agreement, which kind of undercut the name clause and, according to Tom Zutaut, the lawyers and the label believed that it secured the band from breaking up.

Probably we'll never know the truth about the circumstances under which the document was signed. But if I had to speculate, I'd say that Slash and Duff were just convinced to sign because of that other clause. So I think that Slash's earlier version is the one closer to the truth, but it's not the entire truth.

Agree, and quiting  your band to get possession of the name and form a new band is a shitty move.

[Blackstar]

6 minutes ago, felixGNR said:

Agree, and quiting  your band to get possession of the name and form a new band is a shitty move.

That's another catch. Axl most likely never quit the band, he just said he would. It was probably just a manoeuvre to get more control legally, but not to make Slash and Duff employees, as it is widely believed.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Blackstar

[Annabelle]

Meh. Too many assholes and douchbags taking advantage of people mentally unstable and addicts. 

Quote

The only thing I do know is that a few years ago Doug told me to tell Slash and Duff that he was sorry for the way he handled things on their behave.

Goldstein can go fuck himself.

[chokes]

I don't think it was necessarily anything specific Slash said.

After the breakup Slash had a go at Axl in every interview and appearance whereas Axl disappeared for almost a decade. Axl saw that as a betrayal.

[megaguns1982]

I also think that it wasn’t so much what was said but that there was a lot of litigation between former members and Axl regarding the band name etc, 

Axls point of view and Slashes differed so greatly at the time (90s)

It would have been easier if slash did VR and Axl just created a new band name.

it reminds me of the blaze era of iron maiden, Steve Harris should have put iron maiden to bed until Bruce came back.