Izzy's involvement in writing new music.

[WhazUp]

19 minutes ago, Drexl said:

Thank you Axl, Slash and Duff for rearranging Izzy's boring and generic tunes. Ask yourself one question: why not even one Izzy solo song doesn't sound like real GNR?

None of the band member's projects sounded like "real GNR" if by "real GNR" you mean Appetite through the Illusions.  That is why that combo back then was so great, and Izzy was essential to that - they all brought in their own thing to make it a greater whole including the songwriting Izzy brought to the table

 

[Drexl]

1 minute ago, WhazUp said:

None of the band member's projects sounded like "real GNR" if by "real GNR" you mean Appetite through the Illusions.  That is why that combo back then was so great, and Izzy was essential to that - they all brought in their own thing to make it a greater whole including the songwriting Izzy brought to the table

 

Yep, that's why Izzy didn't bother to record half of the Illusions.

3 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Yes, you're very effective. Will you be my personal fluffer from now on?

Anytime, sailor. More happy fuckers, less suffering.

[Rovim]

12 minutes ago, Drexl said:

Yep, that's why Izzy didn't bother to record half of the Illusions.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. Not sure it went down like that. It's possible he recorded all of his parts and the band/Slash removed them and replaced it with more Slash rhythm guitars or nothing at all.

[Argento]

So, is he involved or not? 😄

[KURT19]

I present this exhibit into evidence:

 

 

 

[Free Bird]

4 hours ago, Rovim said:

Let me be blunt: I think Slash needs talented songwriters for him to have a foundation to work with cause he basically knows how to use only one structure in a song, maybe two. This was the case for Slash and Friends for example. World On Fire was better, but mostly uninteresting structures as songs imo. Not his forte to come up with compelling, finished tunes. Feel free to stick to your opinion, I respect that but it is my opinion his talents lies elsewhere. He is brilliant when it comes to coming up with riffs, solos, and guitar fills when there is someone to push him out of his comfort zone, and once in a while he can bring an interesting chord progression or even a full suite of ideas that isn't generic but that's becoming rare nowdays for him, not something like when he was at the top of his game and brought Coma for example or Locomotive and Axl said it's not like he brought those fully formed or at least some of those tunes.

It matters if you care about dissecting every little thing and put labels on what each band member can do so I guess it depends.

Personally, I feel that Slash's solo output has shown it's weaknesses and can benefit greatly from more thought out tunes that had the time and people with more attention span to develop the material like Axl and the people that were responsible to all that unreleased material Slash and Duff got to listen to or like it or not Chinese.

 

If you think Slash's songs are uninteressting and boring then it's your opinion. To me they are not. I even think Izzy's solo music is half-arsed compared to the GNR catalogue. Like I said, he has his strengths, the basics, but is missing the special ingredients.

And now this:

1. By The Sword

2. Gotten

3. Nothing To Say

4. Starlight

5. Mother Maria 

6. Halo

7. Anastasia

8. Wicked Stone

9. Beneath The Savage Sun

10. Battleground

11. The Unholy

12. Serve You Right

13. The One You Loved Is Gone

14. The Great Pretender

How to come up with songs like this without being a songwriter? And these are just songs since 2010. Of course Izzy could improve some of them with adding his ideas, but I'm more curious what they had sounded like with Axl's input and him on vocals.

 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Free Bird

[double talkin jive mfkr]

13 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

Yep because nine inch nails music to axl was more evolved 🙄

maybe 

weiland was better than snakepit 

but overall izzy ju ju hounds first album beats them all including CD VR SNAKEPIT BELIEVE IN ME APOCALPYTIC SHIT TENDERNOballs 

[Sydney Fan]

22 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

maybe 

weiland was better than snakepit 

but overall izzy ju ju hounds first album beats them all including CD VR SNAKEPIT BELIEVE IN ME APOCALPYTIC SHIT TENDERNOballs 

Sorry i was being sarcastic in your response, not having a go at you. I liked contraband when it came out as it was fresh to hear. 

I had magazine interviews collected when izzy left the band when i was in high school, and he was completely honest in why he left the band and he very much sounded invigorated with a more sober mind with the juju hounds.

[DieselDaisy]

This is all academic as there will not be any Guns album. Rose is too lazy whilst Team Brazil will just continue booking hits tours until they have plummeted back to Vegas levels of embarrassment. Then Slash and Duff will probably have become fed-up and abscond. Debating ''who will write the next album?'', or ''whether it will contain Rose's Chinese rejects?'', is a pointless exercise. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[Rovim]

9 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

This is all academic as there will not be any Guns album. Rose is too lazy whilst Team Brazil will just continue booking hits tours until they have plummeted back to Vegas levels of embarrassment. Then Slash and Duff will probably have become fed-up and abscond. Debating ''who will write the next album?'', or ''whether it will contain Rose's Chinese rejects?'', is a pointless exercise. 

What, you can tell the future now, Daisy? there is a chance there will be a new Guns album. Some factors have changed even if it's still Axl that calls the shots.

[Rovim]

10 hours ago, Free Bird said:

If you think Slash's songs are uninteressting and boring then it's your opinion. To me they are not. I even think Izzy's solo music is half-arsed compared to the GNR catalogue. Like I said, he has his strengths, the basics, but is missing the special ingredients.

And now this:

1. By The Sword

2. Gotten

3. Nothing To Say

4. Starlight

5. Mother Maria 

6. Halo

7. Anastasia

8. Wicked Stone

9. Beneath The Savage Sun

10. Battleground

11. The Unholy

12. Serve You Right

13. The One You Loved Is Gone

14. The Great Pretender

How to come up with songs like this without being a songwriter? And these are just songs since 2010. Of course Izzy could improve some of them with adding his ideas, but I'm more curious what they had sounded like with Axl's input and him on vocals.

 

I like most of the tunes on your list but they don't have the replay value of Guns songs to me, the lyrics and vocals are usually weak at best, sometimes it's good but most of the times it's the same old structure with generic lyrics where you can tell exactly where the solo is gonna start. I still like it mostly thanks to Slash's riffs and solos.

I even like Living The Dream but it sounds like Slash is not trying very hard and you know he is capable of much more. In every Slash album there are at least a few great tunes/ideas but it seems to work better when he works with other musicians that push him to work on his ideas and polish them I feel that can serve his ideas well.

[Free Bird]

31 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I like most of the tunes on your list but they don't have the replay value of Guns songs to me, the lyrics and vocals are usually weak at best, sometimes it's good but most of the times it's the same old structure with generic lyrics where you can tell exactly where the solo is gonna start. I still like it mostly thanks to Slash's riffs and solos.

I even like Living The Dream but it sounds like Slash is not trying very hard and you know he is capable of much more. In every Slash album there are at least a few great tunes/ideas but it seems to work better when he works with other musicians that push him to work on his ideas and polish them I feel that can serve his ideas well.

That's what I'm saying. Great songs but not on Guns level. How could they be without Izzy and Axl. 

But they show that Slash's still able to do his job. Now let Axl and Duff do there job.

[Drexl]

To be honest, I love Izzy's solo work, especially On Down The Road, 117 Deg and River. But I'm fucking tired of making him the only talented Gunner.

I love all those fuckers. I love them equally: Slash, Iz, the redhead bastard and the tall blonde bitch. I hated that war between Axl and Slash fans, and now I hate this shit. For me, they all were equally important. For example, Duff's bass lines are criminally underrated on the Illusions.

Anyway, enjoy another civil war in the GNR camp.

 

[Rovim]

12 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

That's what I'm saying. Great songs but not on Guns level. How could they be without Izzy and Axl. 

But they show that Slash's still able to do his job. Now let Axl and Duff do there job.

Ok, but it's not just that. Slash said albums for him are almost an excuse for touring. This is his approach. I don't blame him, he's doing his thing in a natural way but I think that even without Axl and Duff he is capable of releasing better albums. He just doesn't want to change his approach when he has the freedom to do it the way he wants to do it. You see what I mean? he releases one album every 2 years give or take and it's never bad but it's not really great. He prefers to come up with all the music or most of it himself and then Myles comes along and slaps lyrics and melodies on it and the rest of the band might work on it in soundchecks.

He can do better but he chooses to take the easy way imo so he can get to touring as fast as he can cause that's what he really loves. When shit got serious we got Contraband, when he worked with MJ we got Give In To Me.

On every Slash album there are 2-3 great fuckin' ideas or tunes like Wicked Stone for example but there should be more. It could be all killer with no generic stuff but it takes an event to get Slash to work outside his comfort zone.

[Rovim]

12 minutes ago, Drexl said:

To be honest, I love Izzy's solo work, especially On Down The Road, 117 Deg and River. But I'm fucking tired of making him the only talented Gunner.

 

They're all talented. I just think Izzy is the best songwriter of the 4 writing Gunners. Now that you're honest, can't you detect Guns elements in those 3 Izzy albums? plus Slash could never come up with an album like River for example. Or Nightrain which has the main riff that is really influenced by The Stones. Izzy is not overrated, he gets the exact amount of praise he deserves. No Izzy, No AFD, or YCBM which made the band bigger, or Don't Cry which got the ball rolling and also most of Lies, Patience which was big for the band as well.

 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Rovim

[Free Bird]

36 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Ok, but it's not just that. Slash said albums for him are almost an excuse for touring. This is his approach. I don't blame him, he's doing his thing in a natural way but I think that even without Axl and Duff he is capable of releasing better albums. He just doesn't want to change his approach when he has the freedom to do it the way he wants to do it. You see what I mean? he releases one album every 2 years give or take and it's never bad but it's not really great. He prefers to come up with all the music or most of it himself and then Myles comes along and slaps lyrics and melodies on it and the rest of the band might work on it in soundchecks.

He can do better but he chooses to take the easy way imo so he can get to touring as fast as he can cause that's what he really loves. When shit got serious we got Contraband, when he worked with MJ we got Give In To Me.

On every Slash album there are 2-3 great fuckin' ideas or tunes like Wicked Stone for example but there should be more. It could be all killer with no generic stuff but it takes an event to get Slash to work outside his comfort zone.

I don't disagree

39 minutes ago, Drexl said:

To be honest, I love Izzy's solo work, especially On Down The Road, 117 Deg and River. But I'm fucking tired of making him the only talented Gunner.

I love all those fuckers. I love them equally: Slash, Iz, the redhead bastard and the tall blonde bitch. I hated that war between Axl and Slash fans, and now I hate this shit. For me, they all were equally important. For example, Duff's bass lines are criminally underrated on the Illusions.

Anyway, enjoy another civil war in the GNR camp.

 

Exactly this

[Free Bird]

56 minutes ago, Rovim said:

They're all talented. I just think Izzy is the best songwriter of the 4 writing Gunners. Now that you're honest, can't you detect Guns elements in those 3 Izzy albums? plus Slash could never come up with an album like River for example. Or Nightrain which has the main riff that is really influenced by The Stones. Izzy is not overrated, he gets the exact amount of praise he deserves. No Izzy, No AFD, or YCBM which made the band bigger, or Don't Cry which got the ball rolling and also most of Lies, Patience which was big for the band as well.

 

I think you missed the point.

No Izzy, no AFD

No Axl, no AFD

No Slash, no AFD

Each of them contributed their parts of songwriting to AFD and the rest.

Slash couldn't come up with an album like River and Izzy couldn't come up with an Riff and a solo like SCOM or Anastasia. Credits were credits due. They all have their strengths and they fitted together perfectly.

Edit: You can detect Guns elements on CD, on Izzy's albums, on Slash's albums and on VR records. They're all part of the formular. Even on Adler's Appetit are GNR elements #cowbell

Edited June 16, 2019 by Free Bird

[acor]

1 hour ago, Free Bird said:

I think you missed the point.

No Izzy, no AFD

No Axl, no AFD

No Slash, no AFD

Each of them contributed their parts of songwriting to AFD and the rest.

Slash couldn't come up with an album like River and Izzy couldn't come up with an Riff and a solo like SCOM or Anastasia. Credits were credits due. They all have their strengths and they fitted together perfectly.

Edit: You can detect Guns elements on CD, on Izzy's albums, on Slash's albums and on VR records. They're all part of the formular. Even on Adler's Appetit are GNR elements #cowbell

 

I remember an interview with John Paul Jones, when asked about what was the source of Led Zeppelin strenght, he answered- "we all listened to different kind of music"... I think GnR are even more obvious example of that... Everyone comming from different musical background, and then it resulted in magic...

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, Free Bird said:

I think you missed the point.

No Izzy, no AFD

No Axl, no AFD

No Slash, no AFD

Each of them contributed their parts of songwriting to AFD and the rest.

Slash couldn't come up with an album like River and Izzy couldn't come up with an Riff and a solo like SCOM or Anastasia. Credits were credits due. They all have their strengths and they fitted together perfectly.

Edit: You can detect Guns elements on CD, on Izzy's albums, on Slash's albums and on VR records. They're all part of the formular. Even on Adler's Appetit are GNR elements #cowbell

I don't think it's possible to miss that point. I was replying to a post that was talking about how Izzy is somehow looked at as a better writer than he is or something to that effect, so I was giving examples of why I feel he is the best songwriter of the 4 writing gunners. Doesn't mean I think Izzy was the only one responsible for Appetite existing or that he could do it alone. That's absurd. But yesterday Drexl refused to believe anyone could detect Guns elements in an Izzy solo album which is ridiculous.

[Draguns]

What was so special about AFD5 was that they played to everyone's strengths. They also had a brotherhood. That's very rare to find in both. No one was above each other at that time period and they fought as underdogs to achieve great success, which came at a price for each of them. 

Each member of AFD5 will always mean something to me. Hope that some members on here realize that AFD5 was a group effort and realize the contributions that each member made to GNR.  

[EvanG]

2 hours ago, Rovim said:

Izzy is not overrated

 

He is a little bit overrated on here.

[Rovim]

Just now, EvanG said:

He is a little bit overrated on here.

On here most people seem to think there isn't going to be much of a difference in the studio if Izzy is not a part of it if a new Guns album will ever come out. I personally think Izzy is just as important as Slash. How is he a little bit overrated? how many fans in this forum would say "it's not a Guns album cause Izzy wasn't a part of it?" not many is my guess. Very small group.

If Slash was a part of Chinese Democracy and Izzy wasn't I'd bet most fans here would have accepted it as a true Guns record even if it was just Axl and Slash without Izzy.

 

[acor]

5 minutes ago, EvanG said:

He is a little bit overrated on here.

 

If any, he's underrated... And I'm not talking about general audience (wich is obvious), I'm talking here... I've seen many posts here thst goes like "well, I like the reunion, but it will be better with Izzy or Gilby"... Seriously, mentioning those two in one passing is even more insulting than leaving Izzy off reunion...

[EvanG]

4 minutes ago, Rovim said:

On here most people seem to think there isn't going to be much of a difference in the studio if Izzy is not a part of it if a new Guns album will ever come out. I personally think Izzy is just as important as Slash. How is he a little bit overrated? how many fans in this forum would say "it's not a Guns album cause Izzy wasn't a part of it?" not many is my guess. Very small group.

If Slash was a part of Chinese Democracy and Izzy wasn't I'd bet most fans here would have accepted it as a true Guns record even if it was just Axl and Slash without Izzy.

 

Really? That's not the impression I have. Some people here act like he's ''the golden boy'', ''the prodical son'', and that's a bit too much. I love Izzy... I think he was very important, like they all were, and a new record without him will obviously not be the same.

2 minutes ago, acor said:

 

If any, he's underrated... And I'm not talking about general audience (wich is obvious), I'm talking here... I've seen many posts here thst goes like "well, I like the reunion, but it will be better with Izzy or Gilby"... Seriously, mentioning those two in one passing is even more insulting than leaving Izzy off reunion...

Maybe underrated by the Slash or nu-GnR fans. Sure.

[default_]

I believe they might not give Izzy a shot for a really dumb reason: To prove they can release a great Guns record without him. 

There might still have resentments on the band members for what Izzy has done in the past, I believe specially Axl might feel a little bitter over him and with all the internet claiming what are the usual claims about Izzy being the soul and sound of GNR, it might happen.