The US Politics/Elections Thread 2.0

[Ratam]

Sadly elections you need always choose between bad or worst.

[-W.A.R-]

[downzy]

Well, looks like Democrats can say goodbye to Trump being tried in federal court before the election on Jan 6th charges.

Supreme Court is going to hear arguments on whether Trump has complete immunity while President at the end of April.  Means a judgement likely won't be delivered until the end of June.  By that point it will be too close to allow the case to move forward since it's too close to the election. 

The charges relating to the stolen documents and obstruction could still proceed since the charges do not relate to his time in office, but considering Trump drew a very friendly judge, that case will likely be pushed back and won't happen before the election.

The Georgia case is all but certain to be shelved since the DA lied on the witness stand relating to her relationship with her fellow prosecutor.  Recusal by the DA means anyone in her office can't work the case.  It would need to be picked up by another district/county.  That ain't happening.

That leaves the New York state hush-money trial that's set to take place next month.  It's both the weakest case against Trump but also the one that likely won't move the needle since it's a state case, not a federal one.

Congrats to the Democrats who decided that their main bulwark against the trainwreck that is Trump is an 81 year old man who sounds like he's 90 whenever he talks.  

Nice country you go there America.

[downzy]

Another entry from the vile and deranged...

https://apnews.com/article/katie-britt-mexico-border-sex-trafficking-f74c95d1f7e3e5b9a660d9efc51ab214

Imagine being so craven to use the plight and tragedy of someone being sex trafficked for one's own political gain?  To say nothing of the fact that the crime and trauma happened in Mexico while George W. Bush was President, but Britt pins it on Biden.

Moreover, shouldn't victims of sex trafficking find refuge in America?  

Katie Britt - a garbage human being for a garbage political movement.

[Len Cnut]

Trumps a wanker, you know it and i know it, problem is there ain’t been a decent option since a couple of decades

[-W.A.R-]

"You can't just talk and not listen". Unless you're announcing a cessation of arm shipments along with a call for an immediate ceasefire then there is nothing to listen to.

[-W.A.R-]

Appalling. Peace to the students at Columbia and everywhere else students are taking a stand against genocide.

[-W.A.R-]

-Israel has committed atrocity after atrocity and hasn't come close to their stated goal of eliminating Hamas (US says only 30-35%).
-Israel just very clearly stepped over Biden's own stated red line with a massacre in Rafah.
-The US is becoming increasingly isolated in the international community with their defense of Israel.
-Domestically Biden and his officials can not go anywhere without facing protests and he faces a very real chance of losing his re-election.

What exactly will be enough for this administration to change course and fully withdraw their support? This is deranged.

[colonizedmind]

Nothing going on today...just another quiet day... H.O.L.Y S.H.I.T! 

[Graeme]

I was fully prepared for him to weasel his way out of this on a technicality in exactly the same way he's avoided accountability for all the other heinous shit that he's done. To be convicted on all 34 counts is pretty damning, especially for someone afforded literally every advantage by the system.

If Cohen did jail time for these crimes and has ultimately been found to have done so at the behest of Trump, it seems straightforward to me that he'd have to have a custodial sentence too, but I'm no legal expert.

It's wild to think that in most other democracies, becoming a convicted criminal would make one unelectable, both in terms of popularity among the electorate and achieving selection by a political party, but such is the thrall Trump holds over the Republican Party and their voter base that it's almost inconceivable he won't be nominated regardless.

[grouse]

4 hours ago, Graeme said:

It's wild to think that in most other democracies, becoming a convicted criminal would make one unelectable, both in terms of popularity among the electorate and achieving selection by a political party, but such is the thrall Trump holds over the Republican Party and their voter base that it's almost inconceivable he won't be nominated regardless.

It's the land of the free right, well maybe not so free since you can still be running for office while incarcerated 😅

What a shitshow 

Edited May 31 by grouse

[colonizedmind]

9 hours ago, Graeme said:

I was fully prepared for him to weasel his way out of this on a technicality in exactly the same way he's avoided accountability for all the other heinous shit that he's done. To be convicted on all 34 counts is pretty damning, especially for someone afforded literally every advantage by the system.

If Cohen did jail time for these crimes and has ultimately been found to have done so at the behest of Trump, it seems straightforward to me that he'd have to have a custodial sentence too, but I'm no legal expert.

It's wild to think that in most other democracies, becoming a convicted criminal would make one unelectable, both in terms of popularity among the electorate and achieving selection by a political party, but such is the thrall Trump holds over the Republican Party and their voter base that it's almost inconceivable he won't be nominated regardless.

Everyone else in the world would go to jail for the equivalent, I've seen many experts say...he's less likely to, however his fate is now with a judge that he severely slated (and his family) everyday for 6 weeks - What.An.Idiot. so let's see. The DA and the prosecution team I think will push for some jail time or at the very least, house arrest...

Let's face it, it was a long trial, he tried to detail (like all the others) as much as possible, so a lot of effort went into this and stress...

He was banking on scaring at least one jury member (all he needed) into submission, but his laughter disaspating very quickly to po-faced as they made a quick decision is one of the moments of the century TBH.

So, to deter Presidents or people seeking power of doing this kinda thing, there has to be a suitable deterrent....so do you fine a billionaire? Yea that'll stop him. NO! 

Community service, have him pick up trash in the ghetto? nah! 

2 years, reduced to one year house arrest, is probably a semi realistic hope. The judge can do that legitimately and there has to be some punishment to deter! That will be the big argument over the next 6 weeks...as Donald will have the opportunity to reduce his outcome by showing remorse - that won't happen either, haha! Never surrender and all. The people will expect after all this effort to get a man who has avoided justice most of his life, to finally be held accountable...

Trump all along hasn't argued he's innocent, rather that he should be allowed to be a criminal because he's Donald Trump! 

The world will be watching. He said "I'm taking this for you...they'd come after you" OK. Then time to take the punishment everyone else would get. 

There's ways round it but kinda hilarious that he shouldn't be allowed to vote in areas as a convicted felon BUT yet he can be commander and chief 🫣

Edit: also best not to listen to this imbolsal...rather pay attention to what he ans his team privately knew of hia guilt. The defence they put on was shocking. One witness for the defence that Trump insisted take the stand and ended up being one of th biggest car crashes in court history. Clearly the court to be admonished - rarely happens. 

We know Trump lives each day like he's in some sorta movie or his life...TBH I can't wait to see the numerous court reenactment of this. It will entertainment at the very least. 

Edited May 31 by colonizedmind

[-W.A.R-]

Assange is finally free!

I'm not surprised they decided to offer a plea now that it's come down to actually having extradite and try him. They avoid the global condemnation for prosecuting a journalist that a trial would bring and still got to punish him by keeping him in prison for the last 5 years. This whole thing was shameful and cruel.

Edit: It's actually worse - they thought they would lose the extradition request on appeal: Inside The Assange Plea Deal: Why The US Government Abruptly Ended The Case

Edited June 28 by -W.A.R-

[rocknroll41]

I went to middle school with cnn reporter Alayna Treene. Looks like she’ll also be attending the debate in person tonight to do some side reporting (or whatever you call it).

At work we always have cnn on and whenever she comes up I go “I went to middle school with her!” And everyone goes “yes, we know.”

[rocknroll41]

That debate made me lose brain cells…

[ZoSoRose]

Whelp, that was a mess

[SoulMonster]

You are fucked. 

[Rindmelon]

Well that's how you snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[rocknroll41]

My friend Mike: “I had this crazy dream last night that Trump and Biden were debating and they started bickering about golf!”

[Graeme]

12 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

You are fucked. 

And, by extension, we are fucked.

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Watched the Trump and Biden debate. It was painful to watch.

Trump didn't answer many questions and they were important ones. He bee bopped and skated all around them. And if he did answer the questions most of the time he lied and what scares me is he believes his lies.

I think Biden is too old to run again. Why did the Democrats wait so long to replace him. I'm worried we're fucked either way.

I have never seen America in such a horrible state.

I'm afraid for my daughter growing up in an America where the President lies and continues to lie and causes trouble.

45 minutes ago, Graeme said:

And, by extension, we are fucked.

I totally agree. Yep, because Trump wants out of Nato and doesn't care about the world. If he gets elected we are doomed. As for wars, which he says won't happen, Oh yes it will. He will give Putin most of Europe and then go with Kim.

[downzy]

Democrats only have themselves to blame at this point if they continue with Biden.  He's still a better choice than Trump, who has zero principles and is only doing this to keep himself out of prison (and will sell American domestic and foreign policy to the highest bidder), but he still shouldn't be President.

I have a six year old daughter.  I wouldn't let her walk a block besides Trump, but I also wouldn't let Biden driver her down the same block either.

Neither are fit to be President.

I've been advocating for the Democrats to dump Biden since February.  He just doesn't have it in him to win.  A big part of the job is communicating, commanding the stage, bestowing confidence, giving people hope.  There's no chance he can perform those roles in a second term since he struggles mightily with them now.

There's still time to replace the ticket.  VP Harris wouldn't be my first choice but strategically it would be hard for the party to boot the first female (and person of colour) from the ticket if she wanted to take Trump on.  She's the not best candidate to beat Trump (if it were me, my first choice would be Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro, then Colorado Gov. Jared Polis, followed by California Gov. Gavin Newsom), but at this point she's better than Biden.  And I think she's a bit under-estimated partly because of how difficult the role of VP is to look in any way competent. 

Save Pete Buttigieg for 2028 or 2032. 

Democrats have a deep bench of potential candidates that could easily press the case against Trump and win a second term.

But Biden is done. 

The question is whether he wants to preserve his legacy or does he want to become this year's version of Ruth Bader Ginsberg. 

For the benefit of the country and his standing, he needs to step aside and let the party pick someone who cannot only beat Trump, but actually do the job. 

[Rindmelon]

The Dems in conjunction with mainstream media really did there best to supress exposure for others like Marianne Williamson or Jason Palmer who wanted to compete for the democratic side of the ticket.

Pretty sure they only had RFK on MSNBC when he was running as a dem (before going independent) as putting a mic in front of  that man was likely to increase support for Biden at that time. They were not interested in having Dems debate each other however and now we can see why.

Another failing of that debate was that whilst everybody is understandably focusing on how bad Biden was the fact checking of Trumps lies will not receive equal coverage.

Will be interested to see what happens at the DNC in August.

[downzy]

11 minutes ago, Rindmelon said:

The Dems in conjunction with mainstream media really did there best to supress exposure for others like Marianne Williamson or Jason Palmer who wanted to compete for the democratic side of the ticket.

I don't blame Democrats for rallying around an incumbent.  Williamson, Palmer, or even Dean Philips were not serious candidates.

This is on Biden and those around him.  He should have the self-awareness to know that he's not the same guy he use to be.  And if he doesn't, those around him that he trusts should be telling him.

13 minutes ago, Rindmelon said:

Another failing of that debate was that whilst everybody is understandably focusing on how bad Biden was the fact checking of Trumps lies will not receive equal coverage.

Right.  If Biden could have passed the low-bar that Republicans provided him, more focus would be on Trump's brutal relationship with the truth.  I do push back on the notion that the moderators were at fault.  It's not the moderator's job to fact check candidates.  That's the job of the candidates (and the viewers).  

[Rindmelon]

12 minutes ago, downzy said:

I do push back on the notion that the moderators were at fault.  It's not the moderator's job to fact check candidates.  That's the job of the candidates (and the viewers).  

Thing is even if it were there job they wouldn't be able to because of the volume of lies. He is using Bannon's 'flood the zone with shit' technique at least I think that's what he called it. He is clearly an appalling man but the least you can say is that he still appears to be who he was 4 years ago and it seems quite clear that Biden isn't.