The US Politics/Elections Thread 2.0

[downzy]

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

It's a little simplistic to say Biden mumbled his way through one debate. He had been making huge gaffes for a long time and it was a loud conversation (on both sides of the fence) that was being had and ultimately they couldn't quieten it so they forced him out. 

Biden had been making huge gaffes his entire career.  Anyone familiar with Biden's career before he became Obama's VP knows he has a habit of sticking his foot in his mouth.  And yes, his decline has been noticeable the last couple of years, it was always limited to one off instances that could quickly be glossed over.  The debate was something else completely.  It wan't just mumbling.  The man had problems formulating sentences.  He'd get lost in his thought and appeared confused for a solid 90 minutes.

Biden doesn't leave unless he wanted to.  The idea that "they" forced him to do anything is absurd.  The party let him know that he was endangering his legacy and Democrats chances in November by staying on.  It was still his choice to make.  Unless you have specific evidence that he was forced, this is nothing but off-base conjecture on your part.

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

As for Trump... listening to any of his speeches, he's rarely directly answering a question, he always goes off on another slight off centre rant. I don't think his cognitive health is the issue there, but maybe?

Again, check out the links myself and others have posted above.  He's always gone off on tangents, but he's shown an increasingly pattern of slurring his words and confusing names, facts, and people that is incomparable just a few years ago. 

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

The Democrats choice of Biden, well as you said he's the sitting president and it was his intent to run for a 2nd term. The actual issue was that they ran him the first time. 

Again, "they."  Ughh...

First, Biden's campaign made it fairly clear in 2020 that Biden's ambitions was for a single term.  They even acknowledged to reporters that because of his age it was highly unlikely he'd run for a second term.  A single term Biden presidency was further supported by Biden himself, who would often call himself a bridge to the next generation of Democratic leaders.  Biden polled best against Trump against all other Democratic challengers in the primary, hence the party voted for the candidate they felt offered the best chance to beat Trump. 

 

[Tom2112]

17 hours ago, downzy said:

Biden had been making huge gaffes his entire career.  Anyone familiar with Biden's career before he became Obama's VP knows he has a habit of sticking his foot in his mouth.  And yes, his decline has been noticeable the last couple of years, it was always limited to one off instances that could quickly be glossed over.  The debate was something else completely.  It wan't just mumbling.  The man had problems formulating sentences.  He'd get lost in his thought and appeared confused for a solid 90 minutes.

Biden doesn't leave unless he wanted to.  The idea that "they" forced him to do anything is absurd.  The party let him know that he was endangering his legacy and Democrats chances in November by staying on.  It was still his choice to make.  Unless you have specific evidence that he was forced, this is nothing but off-base conjecture on your part.

Again, check out the links myself and others have posted above.  He's always gone off on tangents, but he's shown an increasingly pattern of slurring his words and confusing names, facts, and people that is incomparable just a few years ago. 

Again, "they."  Ughh...

First, Biden's campaign made it fairly clear in 2020 that Biden's ambitions was for a single term.  They even acknowledged to reporters that because of his age it was highly unlikely he'd run for a second term.  A single term Biden presidency was further supported by Biden himself, who would often call himself a bridge to the next generation of Democratic leaders.  Biden polled best against Trump against all other Democratic challengers in the primary, hence the party voted for the candidate they felt offered the best chance to beat Trump. 

 

I don't watch enough Trump footage to really say one or the other, and after sitting through that interview at the black journalist convention I'm not in a rush to consume any more for a while😄 

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Well, VP Harris has her running mate. Never hear of him, but the news said he's done great things for Minnesota. 

If they are elected, hope they work well together. I'll take anyone but Trump and Vance. Both liars and arrogant pricks.

35 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

I don't watch enough Trump footage to really say one or the other, and after sitting through that interview at the black journalist convention I'm not in a rush to consume any more for a while😄 

Most people aren't. Any part of the convention I saw was from watching The Daily Show and Bill Mahur. I know Trump lies so much and Vance is a moron telling a story about his gun crazed grandma, so I won't waste my time watching anything longer than a few minutes.

[Tom2112]

2 hours ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

Well, VP Harris has her running mate. Never hear of him, but the news said he's done great things for Minnesota. 

If they are elected, hope they work well together. I'll take anyone but Trump and Vance. Both liars and arrogant pricks.

Most people aren't. Any part of the convention I saw was from watching The Daily Show and Bill Mahur. I know Trump lies so much and Vance is a moron telling a story about his gun crazed grandma, so I won't waste my time watching anything longer than a few minutes.

It's astounding that Trump chose him. But it is telling that he said the choice of VP has no bearing on the president, he basically distanced himself from him. I wouldn't be shocked if he replaced him, but he would need to do it quickly. He needs to be running with somebody smart, that can go toe to toe with just about anybody. It's a short list. But yes you guessed it, ladies and gentlemen "the body....JESSE VENTURA!" And he's a former governor of Minnesota and he has the documents. Couldn't be any better!

[downzy]

4 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

It's astounding that Trump chose him. But it is telling that he said the choice of VP has no bearing on the president, he basically distanced himself from him. I wouldn't be shocked if he replaced him, but he would need to do it quickly. He needs to be running with somebody smart, that can go toe to toe with just about anybody. It's a short list. But yes you guessed it, ladies and gentlemen "the body....JESSE VENTURA!" And he's a former governor of Minnesota and he has the documents. Couldn't be any better!

I believe it’s too late at this point to change the ticket. It was voted on at the convention and sent to states for certification.  Many states, like Ohio, require ballot submissions by early August. 

[-W.A.R-]

The biggest favor Biden can do for Kamala right now is change his Israel policy. It has the added bonus of being the right thing to do.

[downzy]

New Marquette University poll has Harris up by 6 points nationally. 

[evilfacelessturtle]

On 8/6/2024 at 8:26 PM, Tom2112 said:

Now, Trump is a rambler and sometimes you're wondering what the fuck he's on about but he's still sharp, I don't know who feeds him information though, they clearly need to pipe in more fact checked material. Whether he'd be sharp in a further 4 years we don't know but time is not on his side. Kamala is much younger, however her answers to sticky questions are just as bizarre and sometimes you might think she's suffering from some sort of mental dysfunction (unlikely I just think she isn't good without pre-prepared answers). 

Trump is "sharp" and Kamala is "mentally dysfunctional"? ... jesus christ.

 

Edited August 8 by evilfacelessturtle

[evilfacelessturtle]

On 8/6/2024 at 10:25 PM, downzy said:

Again, "they."  Ughh...

First, Biden's campaign made it fairly clear in 2020 that Biden's ambitions was for a single term.  They even acknowledged to reporters that because of his age it was highly unlikely he'd run for a second term.  A single term Biden presidency was further supported by Biden himself, who would often call himself a bridge to the next generation of Democratic leaders.  Biden polled best against Trump against all other Democratic challengers in the primary, hence the party voted for the candidate they felt offered the best chance to beat Trump. 

Reminds me of the way people use "the media" or "the government" as this kind of faceless monolith that can be used as a punching bag.

The whole attack on Kamala that she wasn't voted on is possibly one of the dumbest (and that's saying something) because... nobody voted for Biden in 2024 either. Just because you voted for him in 2020 doesn't mean you want him in 2024. So switching to Kamala is no more undemocratic than every other incumbent president who runs for re-election without a primary.

[-W.A.R-]

2 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

Reminds me of the way people use "the media" or "the government" as this kind of faceless monolith that can be used as a punching bag.

The whole attack on Kamala that she wasn't voted on is possibly one of the dumbest (and that's saying something) because... nobody voted for Biden in 2024 either. Just because you voted for him in 2020 doesn't mean you want him in 2024. So switching to Kamala is no more undemocratic than every other incumbent president who runs for re-election without a primary.

I agree about it being dumb but there was a primary and Biden was voted for. Incumbents just don't usually face any serious competition unless there is a split in the party (IE: 1968).

[Tom2112]

4 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

Trump is "sharp" and Kamala is "mentally dysfunctional"? ... jesus christ.

 

I love how that's the only thing you picked up from the whole point I made slating Trump. Your problem again being I didn't say something nice about the person you want to win "we have to beat Trump😢". The gif definitely proves your point btw🙄 

I'm not interested in dead end debates with someone who has immovable views and sickening bias, so move along👍

[W. Axl Kev]

I'm originally from the UK. Moved here in early 2016 and now a permanent resident but not yet a citizen so unable to vote this time around. The politic situation here is actually quite similar to the UK (or England specifically I guess).

I see this two ways: 1) Kamala Harris is/was unconvincing/invisible as VP and seems to be a little shaky on her details around policy (especially economics) so I'll be interested to see her in the forthcoming debates and her ability to go beyond the "we're going to improve the economy" jargon at her rallies. Whichever way they spin it she was tasked with solving the border challenge and that seems to be an important topic for Americans. The numbers don't help her there. 2) Trump is obviously a lunatic but of the 3 Presidents I've resided in the states under that was unquestionably the best economy and a lot of voters will accept his BS to try and recover that. That said, his recent comments interviews call into question his mental state as much as Biden. I stupidly allowed myself to believe the assassination attempt might bring about a more mature, humble Trump but I watched his speech at their convention and it was utterly unhinged. In any other situation, Kamala Harris would look like a sensible option but given the intensity of her opposition I'm not convinced she has the gumption to convince people on the fence.

Given I live and work in New York my interest tends to be tied to economics so that would lean Republican but I'd also take another 4 years of the Dems, which would mean 8 years removed from Trump's presidency, and hopefully snuff the life out of that mental campaign which has drawn out the insane Left equivalent. Boring politics might hopefully return both parties to a more center style of policy and less tribal tactics.

[evilfacelessturtle]

22 hours ago, -W.A.R- said:

I agree about it being dumb but there was a primary and Biden was voted for. Incumbents just don't usually face any serious competition unless there is a split in the party (IE: 1968).

Not in 2024, there wasn't. I repeat: Just because you voted for him in 2020 doesn't mean you want him in 2024. Also, I didn't vote for him in the 2020 primary, I voted for Bernie.

[evilfacelessturtle]

20 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

I love how that's the only thing you picked up from the whole point I made slating Trump.  The gif definitely proves your point btw🙄 

I'm not interested in dead end debates with someone who has immovable views and sickening bias, so move along👍

LOL that's all you got? Weak sauce. Can't even address the point.

It's not about whether you were critical of him, it's the absurdity of calling Donald Trump "sharp" and the absurdity of calling Harris "mentally dysfunctional".

Once again, you've dodged the actual substance of the argument completely, strawmanned it and finished with an ad hominem fallacy.

When you can't attack the argument, attack the messenger!

Quote

 Your problem again being I didn't say something nice about the person you want to win

Do you just not even read anything that might challenge your beliefs? Because this is completely made up. I said nothing even remotely suggesting this. This is the laziest strawman I've ever encountered.

"iMmoVaBlE vIeWs and sIcKeNiNg bIaS!" 

Edited August 9 by evilfacelessturtle

[evilfacelessturtle]

19 hours ago, W. Axl Kev said:

I see this two ways: 1) Kamala Harris is/was unconvincing/invisible as VP and seems to be a little shaky on her details around policy (especially economics) so I'll be interested to see her in the forthcoming debates and her ability to go beyond the "we're going to improve the economy" jargon at her rallies.

It's only been about 2 1/2 weeks since she was thrust into this campaign unexpectedly after Biden's bad debate. Of course she isn't going to have a full platform ready yet. But she has definitely said more than just "we're going to improve the economy".

Harris has promoted the passage of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, funding for small business, and previously supported an act as senator to provide a $6,000 tax credit for middle and low-income families. She's running on a pro-union agenda, has promised to ban hidden fees and late charges from financial institutions, and limit unfair rent increases and cap prescription drug costs which she has said would "lower costs and save many middle-class families thousands of dollars a year".

Quote

Trump is obviously a lunatic but of the 3 Presidents I've resided in the states under that was unquestionably the best economy and a lot of voters will accept his BS to try and recover that.

"Unquestionably the best economy" by what metric? He just kept the same trajectory of Obama's economy (thanks in part to the Fed's absurdly low interest rates continuing), and blew a trillion dollar hole in the deficit with tax cuts for the rich, at a time when it would clearly not juice the economy anyway because it wasn't in recession. His tariffs also hurt the economy for no reason except xenophobic chest bumping. Ask farmers or steelworkers what they think of Trump's economy. The USMCA did nothing. Not to mention allowing covid to run rampantly unchecked and destroy the economy in his last year. Biden took that mess he was left and managed to turn it into the lowest unemployment in 50 years and is even getting inflation under control now, in spite of the Fed's radical interest rates.

Quote

my interest tends to be tied to economics so that would lean Republican

That doesn't speak to a very deep knowledge of economics, given Republicans suck at basic economics and blow up the deficit every time they get in power, while Dems always reduce the deficit.

And GDP grows faster under Dems:

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

LOL that's all you got? Weak sauce. Can't even address the point.

It's not about whether you were critical of him, it's the absurdity of calling Donald Trump "sharp" and the absurdity of calling Harris "mentally dysfunctional".

Once again, you've dodged the actual substance of the argument completely, strawmanned it and finished with an ad hominem fallacy.

When you can't attack the argument, attack the messenger!

Do you just not even read anything that might challenge your beliefs? Because this is completely made up. I said nothing even remotely suggesting this. This is the laziest strawman I've ever encountered.

"iMmoVaBlE vIeWs and sIcKeNiNg bIaS!" 

Stop staying strawmanned, we know you heard in a podcast and you’re great! but you’re over using it😄

The substance of your post? There wasn’t any substance!
First of all you sidestepped all the parts of my post that were hyper critical of trump, talking about his inability to answer a direct question, getting sidetracked and I’m not sure if it was the same post but I also mentioned his poor fact checking. None of that suggests he’s always the smartest cookie, I was talking about for his age and the amount hours he spends travelling /working he is pretty with it. So fuck you very much for assuming👍 
As for Kamala, I simply meant listening to (the smattering of) her speeches if she goes off point, she freaks out and tries to improvise and struggles. I’m not arguing that she isn’t intelligent, she obviously is. That’s no better or worse than what I said about Trump, that’s the bit you glossed over in case you’re confused😉

[downzy]

NYT/Sienna poll shows Harris with a four point lead in each “blue wall” state (Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin)…

Dramatic improvement from four weeks ago.

Night and day compared to Biden being at the top of the ticket. 

[SoulMonster]

She brought some vitality to the race.

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Can't wait for this election to be over! so sick or Trump and his lies and the morons on Fox news also lie with straight faces. They should all be fired.

Anyway, the debate between Trump and Harris should be interesting. I really love when The daily show and Bill Mahur give their opinion. 

It's just making me nuts an I don't even watch the news anymore

19 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

She brought some vitality to the race.

I agree. And I do like Walz.  Let's hope for the best because America is not in a good place right now.

[evilfacelessturtle]

On 8/9/2024 at 9:33 PM, Tom2112 said:

Stop staying strawmanned, we know you heard in a podcast and you’re great! but you’re over using it

You'd like that wouldn't you? I'll stop saying it when you stop misrepresenting what other people say because you can't engage the actual point.

"Stop using the word 'theft'!", cries the thief.

Quote

 The substance of your post? There wasn’t any substance!

The ultimate coward's response. For somebody who supposedly isn't a Trump supporter, you sure do use his juvenile avoidance tactics. This is the same tactic as "I'd never grope her, she's too ugly!"

Quote

First of all you sidestepped all the parts of my post that were hyper critical of trump, talking about his inability to answer a direct question, getting sidetracked and I’m not sure if it was the same post but I also mentioned his poor fact checking. None of that suggests he’s always the smartest cookie, I was talking about for his age and the amount hours he spends travelling /working he is pretty with it. So fuck you very much for assuming

Because I wasn't taking issue with those parts of your post. Duh.

If none of those criticisms mean he isn't "sharp", then they are irrelevant to defending your claim that he's "sharp". Do you see how obvious it is that you're always avoiding the point like this? I took issue with the claim that he's "sharp", that's it. Especially in contrast with the claim that Harris is "mentally deficient", and how that belies your claims of being unbiased. It's like saying you're unbiased, but you think Joe Biden is sharp and Ben Shapiro is mentally deficient. It's ridiculous even at face value.

Maybe this will help you; if I say that Harris is rude and disrespectful, but she's also the most brilliant brain surgeon on earth, and you say "WTF?! That's a crazy thing to say, she doesn't have any medical training", and I respond with "You're ignoring where I said she was rude and disrespectful!", have I addressed your point whatsoever?

I didn't assume anything. I'd ask you to point out the assumption I made, but I know from experience that you can't and won't because you just throw baseless accusations against the wall because you can't engage on substance.

Quote

As for Kamala, I simply meant listening to (the smattering of) her speeches if she goes off point, she freaks out and tries to improvise and struggles. I’m not arguing that she isn’t intelligent, she obviously is. That’s no better or worse than what I said about Trump, that’s the bit you glossed over in case you’re confused

Can you point out one of these instances? Someone who isn't good at improvising is a far cry from "mental deficiency". So you're already backing away from the hyperbole.

And it's not about which is better or worse (although being evasive is a much weaker criticism than being mentally deficient, give me a break), it's that your criticism of Trump is in denial of his obvious mental decline, while you attack Harris for that, who is clearly mentally sound.

If I said that Joe Biden is "sharp" but evasive, and that JD Vance is "mentally deficient", you would laugh at the absurdity of that. Again, the evasive criticism is irrelevant to the absurdity of trying to gaslight everyone into thinking black is white - the older one who constantly forgets words is "sharp" and the younger one who doesn't is "mentally deficient".

Edited August 11 by evilfacelessturtle

[downzy]

Please refrain from posting personal insults. 

[downzy]

Now I'm starting to think the couch might have fucked him...

[-W.A.R-]

He's so brat.

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

I was watching the Daily Show with Jon Stewart last night. I love this show and Jon.

He showed Trump saying the same exact stuff he is saying today.  in 2020 he was saying that Biden would cause WW3. Now he's saying the same exact word for word about Harris.

Goes to show you how he can't remember what he says either. What a moron!

Ukraine invaded Russia! Bet Putin didn't see this coming. Oh well, should learn the history from WW2 and Hitler.

[Rindmelon]

On 8/12/2024 at 3:49 AM, downzy said:

Now I'm starting to think the couch might have fucked him...

When did this leak? They will just say it's AI