The US Politics/Elections Thread 2.0

[-W.A.R-]

11 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

I disagree, at least rhetorically, attacking your opponent with their own standards is very effective. The right does it all the time; calling Clinton a warmonger, for example. You can attack somebody from the right without actually being to their right, if that makes any sense. But I haven't read the platform so I can't really speak to that. How has it gone rightward versus 2020?

In 2024 Platform, Democrats Lurch Right on Policing and Immigration

Universal Health Care Was Big on the 2020 Democratic Platform. Where Is It Now?

Democrats Scrub Death Penalty Opposition From Campaign Platform

[evilfacelessturtle]

12 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

And yet how many people in America don't own homes, or are struggling to pay mortgages. I take your point that things are being done. I said things are being done too, but it's the minimum of what should be done. Obviously Bidens administration has given some much needed assistance to lower income people, I'm not knocking that. However it's millions thrown at a trillion problem.

I never said don't vote. I'm just pointing out that what gets done isn't enough and the politicians out there selling the dream are aware of this and largely don't care. Let's revisit this in 4 years when the housing problems are gone😉 

 

Biden could only pass one piece of legislation per year through reconciliation thanks to Joe Manchin blocking his agenda in the Senate. Besides, Covid relief, the Infrastructure bill and Inflation Reduction Act were all some of the largest investments in the country of the past decade. The public transit investment was literally the largest in American history, greater than the creation of the interstate highway system in 1956. But some blame the spending in the infrastructure bill for inflation, so it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Nobody is saying any politician can solve everything in 4 years. And nobody voting for them thinks they will, either.

Edited August 23 by evilfacelessturtle

[evilfacelessturtle]

9 hours ago, -W.A.R- said:

In 2024 Platform, Democrats Lurch Right on Policing and Immigration

Universal Health Care Was Big on the 2020 Democratic Platform. Where Is It Now?

Democrats Scrub Death Penalty Opposition From Campaign Platform

So it looks unchanged from the draft leaked in July, meaning it was written for Biden's re-election bid. I think that shows, as it's the Dems on autopilot.

In the case of immigration, it's definitely a reaction to the GOP's attacks on the border. It seems to be the instinctual response of the Dems to play defense whenever they're being attacked, and without a Bernie figure in the primary to pull them back, they will cave to right wing pressure. This isn't really surprising, after all, Kamala was the one who went to Mexico and gave that speech saying "don't come here" early into Biden's tenure.

The death penalty just seems to have slipped out of the political discourse entirely. I feel like it was a much more common topic of discussion back in the aughts.

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

Biden could only pass one piece of legislation per year through reconciliation thanks to Joe Manchin blocking his agenda in the Senate. Besides, Covid relief, the Infrastructure bill and Inflation Reduction Act were all some of the largest investments in the country of the past decade. The public transit investment was literally the largest in American history, greater than the creation of the interstate highway system in 1956. But some blame the spending in the infrastructure bill for inflation, so it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Nobody is saying any politician can solve everything in 4 years. And nobody voting for them thinks they will, either.

My point was pretty simple, but you love to ignore what I'm actually saying. So... once again, I said you don't base your vote on ONE policy, you need to vote according to the person who has the most policies you agree with. A very obvious thing, I would think. 

But ok. I agree in 4 years getting something of consequence done is a challenge. Kamala will be VP for 4 years and potentially president for 4 if, so that would be 8 years with incredible power to get things done. Let's see if things are significantly better in 4 more years.

Under Biden/Harris inflation has ballooned meaning the savings Americans had for housing are eaten into, and the unemployment levels have also raised and the general rising cost of living...so while there's help from one place, it doesn't really balance the odds. And these are things the people in office have to answer for, the debate will be interesting as I'm sure these are the first questions besides the border that Trump will be attacking her on, I hope she has a good plan to tackle all of the above and that it's not just a continuation of where things leave off with Biden. I want to keep this semi-brief, but obviously there is plenty that Harris can use from Trumps 4 years to criticise too, ridiculous I have to say that but I know you'll go for that own goal if I leave it open.

[-W.A.R-]

"Working tirelessly for a ceasefire is really not a thing and they should be ashamed of themselves" "If you really wanted a ceasefire, you'd just stop sending the weapons. It is that simple" -Ilhan Omar.

I was reading some articles and came across something that i missed: Blinken told Netanyahu back in January that there was no military solution to Hamas. If this is being acknowledged by the administration then why are they continuing to support one?

[downzy]

Harris isn't a natural orator, but that was as good a speech as you're going to get from her.

It accomplished a lot in a short period of time.  She did a great job of introducing herself to an audience that may not now her story (outside of being Biden's VP).

But most importantly, she tackled some of her perceived weaknesses as a candidate (border, security, Israel/Gaza, immigration, economy).  It was more substantive than I thought it would be.  And in contrast to Trump's rambling and nonsensical speech (after talking about the assassination attempt), Harris stayed on message and made the stakes of the election clear. 

All in all, I think Democrats held one of the best conventions I've seen in years relative to where they were six to eight weeks ago.  It was a joyful expression that hasn't really been felt in Democratic politics since 2008.  They did a hell of a job of reclaiming the concept of "freedom" that has so long been value championed by Republicans.  It will be see if and how they can sustain the momentum they've achieved in the last four weeks. 

If there was one missed opportunity over the last four weeks was not going after Trump over his economic proposals.  Trump's greatest strength over Harris right now is how people perceive his handling of the economy.  But his agenda is geared towards fighting unemployment, not inflation.  Adding tariffs, juicing deficits via tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, and mass deporting millions of people would raise prices drastically.  I wish more was done to combat Trump's main advantage at this point.  My hope is Harris will litigate this issue a bit more during the debates.

[evilfacelessturtle]

21 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

My point was pretty simple, but you love to ignore what I'm actually saying. So... once again, I said you don't base your vote on ONE policy, you need to vote according to the person who has the most policies you agree with. A very obvious thing, I would think. 

And again, you point to something I was not taking issue with or responding to at all.

 

21 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Kamala will be VP for 4 years and potentially president for 4 if, so that would be 8 years with incredible power to get things done. Let's see if things are significantly better in 4 more years.

That all depends on who controls Congress.

 

21 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Under Biden/Harris inflation has ballooned meaning the savings Americans had for housing are eaten into, and the unemployment levels have also raised and the general rising cost of living...so while there's help from one place, it doesn't really balance the odds. And these are things the people in office have to answer for, the debate will be interesting as I'm sure these are the first questions besides the border that Trump will be attacking her on, I hope she has a good plan to tackle all of the above and that it's not just a continuation of where things leave off with Biden. I want to keep this semi-brief, but obviously there is plenty that Harris can use from Trumps 4 years to criticise too, ridiculous I have to say that but I know you'll go for that own goal if I leave it open.

Yeah and under Trump I stubbed my toe. That doesn't make it his fault. Biden/Harris don't control interest rates. They don't control Covid devastating supply lines during the Trump administration. As Downsy already said, post-covid inflation has been a global phenomenon, an America has had among the lowest inflation in the developed world.

Unemployment is the lowest it's been in 20 years, and 2023 was the lowest rate since 1969. Pointing to a small uptick in the past couple months as remarkable economic growth over the past 4 years has reached its plateau is missing the forest for the trees.

Wage gains have outpaced inflation, so again, pointing to only one half of the picture is completely misleading.

[Tom2112]

10 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

And again, you point to something I was not taking issue with or responding to at all.

 

That all depends on who controls Congress.

 

Yeah and under Trump I stubbed my toe. That doesn't make it his fault. Biden/Harris don't control interest rates. They don't control Covid devastating supply lines during the Trump administration. As Downsy already said, post-covid inflation has been a global phenomenon, an America has had among the lowest inflation in the developed world.

Unemployment is the lowest it's been in 20 years, and 2023 was the lowest rate since 1969. Pointing to a small uptick in the past couple months as remarkable economic growth over the past 4 years has reached its plateau is missing the forest for the trees.

Wage gains have outpaced inflation, so again, pointing to only one half of the picture is completely misleading.

Piss off with "not his fault". That argument is out the window. You're a democrat and I have seen democrats rake Trump for his every failing and I'm sure there's some there that weren't "his fault". You're either the president and the buck stops at you or you're not. When failings happen it is on your shoulders regardless who you try and tag with the smell instead. So they can point to who controls Congress which of course is a huge hurdle but no, if you can't get it done with 8yrs you've failed to do your job.

Wage gains do not match or replace the inflation issues though. 

Biden got a golden ticket with jobs created after COVID, they haven't been terrible numbers they are up and down just like the previous administration. 

[downzy]

16 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Wage gains do not match or replace the inflation issues though. 

 

For the last two years, they have.  They did not in 2021 and 2022.

[evilfacelessturtle]

17 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

You're either the president and the buck stops at you or you're not.

False. The power of the executive branch is the most limited of all three. You should take some political science courses. The founders created Congress as the most powerful branch, that is not disputed by any historian. In your attempt to paint me as a partisan, you've inadvertently exposed your lack of civic knowledge.

17 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

You're a democrat and I have seen democrats rake Trump for his every failing and I'm sure there's some there that weren't "his fault".

What are you even trying to say here? That I'm responsible for what every other democrat says? Or that because you've heard a democrat say something, I must also believe the same thing? You're only proving that YOU are the one who thinks of people in monolithic groups.

Can you give me an example of Dems blaming Trump for something that wasn't under his powers as president? Instead of retreating to vague gestures where nothing can actually be hashed out, let's engage in real discussion.

Democrats don't even play politics like that when it would benefit them. Case in point: the right blamed Biden for gas prices going up. Dems didn't even blame Biden when they went down! Where were the Biden "I did that" stickers vandalizing gas pumps when prices went down? Anyone with even basic economic knowledge knows that the president doesn't control gas prices.

17 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

So they can point to who controls Congress which of course is a huge hurdle but no, if you can't get it done with 8yrs you've failed to do your job.

Jesus Christ man, you need a high school level Civics class. NOTHING can be passed without Congress. Period. Executive orders only apply to the operations of the federal government. Foreign policy is where a president has the most power as commander in chief. But we aren't talking about that.

17 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Wage gains do not match or replace the inflation issues though. 

They literally cancel it out, that's just basic math. If a burger costs $1 more, but I am making $2 more, I come out ahead.

17 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Biden got a golden ticket with jobs created after COVID, they haven't been terrible numbers they are up and down just like the previous administration. 

All you have to do is compare the recovery to other comparable nations. Ours was by far the fastest and strongest.

When did they go down, exactly?

U.S. Economic Recovery Fastest Among Comparable Advanced Economies

Despite Higher Growth, U.S. Core Inflation is Now Lower Than in Many Other Major Advanced Economies

https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-us-economic-recovery-in-international-context-2023

Why is the U.S. GDP recovering faster than other advanced economies?

https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/why-is-the-u-s-gdp-recovering-faster-than-other-advanced-economies-20240517.html

"The United States economy grew faster than any other large advanced economy last year — by a wide margin — and is on track to do so again in 2024"

https://www.axios.com/2024/01/31/us-economy-2024-gdp-g7-nations

Edited August 25 by evilfacelessturtle

[Rindmelon]

RFK Jr has dropped out and has voiced support for Trump. So a man who was once an environmental lawyer is now supporting a man who believe's climate change is a make believe problem..

I suspect the brain worm passed away due to starvation.

[Tom2112]

8 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

False. The power of the executive branch is the most limited of all three. You should take some political science courses. The founders created Congress as the most powerful branch, that is not disputed by any historian. In your attempt to paint me as a partisan, you've inadvertently exposed your lack of civic knowledge.

What are you even trying to say here? That I'm responsible for what every other democrat says? Or that because you've heard a democrat say something, I must also believe the same thing? You're only proving that YOU are the one who thinks of people in monolithic groups.

Can you give me an example of Dems blaming Trump for something that wasn't under his powers as president? Instead of retreating to vague gestures where nothing can actually be hashed out, let's engage in real discussion.

Democrats don't even play politics like that when it would benefit them. Case in point: the right blamed Biden for gas prices going up. Dems didn't even blame Biden when they went down! Where were the Biden "I did that" stickers vandalizing gas pumps when prices went down? Anyone with even basic economic knowledge knows that the president doesn't control gas prices.

Jesus Christ man, you need a high school level Civics class. NOTHING can be passed without Congress. Period. Executive orders only apply to the operations of the federal government. Foreign policy is where a president has the most power as commander in chief. But we aren't talking about that.

They literally cancel it out, that's just basic math. If a burger costs $1 more, but I am making $2 more, I come out ahead.

All you have to do is compare the recovery to other comparable nations. Ours was by far the fastest and strongest.

When did they go down, exactly?

U.S. Economic Recovery Fastest Among Comparable Advanced Economies

Despite Higher Growth, U.S. Core Inflation is Now Lower Than in Many Other Major Advanced Economies

https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-us-economic-recovery-in-international-context-2023

Why is the U.S. GDP recovering faster than other advanced economies?

https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/why-is-the-u-s-gdp-recovering-faster-than-other-advanced-economies-20240517.html

"The United States economy grew faster than any other large advanced economy last year — by a wide margin — and is on track to do so again in 2024"

https://www.axios.com/2024/01/31/us-economy-2024-gdp-g7-nations

Civic knowledge😄 take a political science class😄 listen to yourself. This is a very far back interest for me, this is not what I like to talk about, I think I have a pretty healthy understanding of things as it stands👍

I was incorrect about the inflation for the last 2 years. As for my point about the buck stopping with the people in charge, I stand by that and that's how voters look at it too, if you are in charge when I'm doing great/bad I'm going to remember that, same goes for if you do/don't follow through with policy plans I care about. So blah, blah this that and the other, end of day the people in charge are who the stink stays on.

I appreciate the effort you put in to respond with stats and quotations, I'm just not willing to do that, if I hear / read something of interest from someone I trust on the subject I remember it and I might reference it later, it wont be word for word but the message remains the same. But I take some of your points and now I have some more up to date info, I ultimately don't agree with you on most of the positions you seem rooted in I don't believe Kamala has the capabilities to be an effective president or that there's real return to joy in America right now😄 but I'm sure there's a common line between us somewhere if we dig deep enough😄 

[evilfacelessturtle]

11 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Civic knowledge😄 take a political science class😄 listen to yourself. This is a very far back interest for me, this is not what I like to talk about, I think I have a pretty healthy understanding of things as it stands👍

I'm listening, are you? You think the president controls the economy, inflation and literally everything. That is laughable to anyone who knows basic economics or political science.

You might as well say that "Aerodynamics have no impact on building planes" and when someone tells you that you should take a physics class, you respond with "😄 listen to yourself".

If you think that you have a healthy understanding of something this complex while admitting it's a "very far back interest", you might need to check your ego. I don't claim to have a healthy understanding of the middle east despite doing very little research on the subject. That's just basic humility.

11 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

As for my point about the buck stopping with the people in charge, I stand by that and that's how voters look at it too

Do you think the president is a dictator who has total control of everything? Do you know anything about the founding of this country and how the founders' number one goal was preventing a monarchy like the one they escaped from in Britain? Apparently not, and that's why I'm telling you to stop making confident assertions on things you know nothing about.

"The buck stops here" is literally a phrase coined by a politician as a marketing gimmick. You're using that one phrase as a stand-in for your entire understanding the US Government and Civics. You can't seriously think anything is that simple, much less something as incredibly complex as running a government.

The "people in charge" go far beyond one person in one office, and even beyond the government entirely. Do you think the president has more control over chicken prices than Perdue or Tyson? Power does not only exist in government.

11 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

if you are in charge when I'm doing great/bad I'm going to remember that

"If I stub my toe under Trump/Biden's administration, it's his fault". Incredible. You're doing exactly what you claimed Dems did to Trump (despite never offering an example of this accusation).

11 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

So blah, blah this that and the other

Really telling us how interested you are in having serious discussion in good faith...

Edited August 26 by evilfacelessturtle

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

I'm listening, are you? You think the president controls the economy, inflation and literally everything. That is laughable to anyone who knows basic economics or political science.

You might as well say that "Aerodynamics have no impact on building planes" and when someone tells you that you should take a physics class, you respond with "😄 listen to yourself".

If you think that you have a healthy understanding of something this complex while admitting it's a "very far back interest", you might need to check your ego. I don't claim to have a healthy understanding of the middle east despite doing very little research on the subject. That's just basic humility.

Do you think the president is a dictator who has total control of everything? Do you know anything about the founding of this country and how the founders' number one goal was preventing a monarchy like the one they escaped from in Britain? Apparently not, and that's why I'm telling you to stop making confident assertions on things you know nothing about.

"The buck stops here" is literally a phrase coined by a politician as a marketing gimmick. You're using that one phrase as a stand-in for your entire understanding the US Government and Civics. You can't seriously think anything is that simple, much less something as incredibly complex as running a government.

The "people in charge" go far beyond one person in one office, and even beyond the government entirely. Do you think the president has more control over chicken prices than Perdue or Tyson? Power does not only exist in government.

"If I stub my toe under Trump/Biden's administration, it's his fault". Incredible. You're doing exactly what you claimed Dems did to Trump (despite never offering an example of this accusation).

Really telling us how interested you are in having serious discussion in good faith...

There's a big difference between having a conversation and what you're trying to do. I mean is this what you're like in real life? You must be a barrel of laughs. "Oh yeah where's the quote" as if you haven't heard all these same things said countless times especially, whether I supply you with a quote or not.

Also, a healthy understanding is not a 'I know it all' stand in, plenty I don't know about US law, economics etc, I would never claim to be an expert like you, oh great one "I worked in politics for 10 years"🙄  but yes, as a topic considering I don't live in the US, my understanding is pretty good but far from complete. That's not me saying you're right I'm wrong that's me slapping back on this BS that you suggested. You have a tendency to read into what I'm saying and add your very own narrative that has zero basis in reality.

As far as the buck goes. I never said the president controlled any of those things, what I did say is pretty simple but you clearly cannot follow, so repeating myself is pretty redundant. I suggest taking a breather before replying next time😉 ...but also please don't reply this time🙏

Edited August 26 by downzy
Removed personal attack

[Sweersa]

It's almost time to put the Trump sign in my yard.

[downzy]

A general warning to refrain from personal insults when discussing this (or any topic).

Thanks!

[SoulMonster]

17 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

So blah, blah this that and the other, end of day the people in charge are who the stink stays on.

Don't you think that is unfair? Why not instead not blame people for things they are not to blame, or not praise people for things they didn't do?

[Tom2112]

 

12 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Don't you think that is unfair? Why not instead not blame people for things they are not to blame, or not praise people for things they didn't do?

I think it's all a part and parcel of stepping into power. You get the good and the bad whether that's considered fair or not. It would be great if you could just take all the wins and say "that's not my fault" when other things (even less controllable things) aren't going well, but c'mon😄 

End of the day they serve their time take their lashes and then get extremely rich through giving speeches or taking a nothing job due to all the favours they gave during their time. So I think it's fair. 

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

I think it's all a part and parcel of stepping into power. You get the good and the bad whether that's considered fair or not. It would be great if you could just take all the wins and say "that's not my fault" when other things (even less controllable things) aren't going well, but c'mon😄 

End of the day they serve their time take their lashes and then get extremely rich through giving speeches or taking a nothing job due to all the favours they gave during their time. So I think it's fair. 

Yeah, but I meant it more from our perspective: Is it fair of us to put blame on people who are not at fault for something? Or praising someone for something they didn't do? I am sure that if we know they are not at fault, then we won't blame them, either, so maybe this is more about people not realizing that some things are to a large extent outside individual politician's control. You wouldn't think to blame a politician for a devastating hurricane hitting a city, so why blame a politician for macroeconomic trends similarly outside of their control? You can blame both for how they react to the hurricane/macroeconomic trends, though.

[Cosmo]

Foo Fighters suing Trump for unauthorized use of "My Hero" on his campaign rallies. Point for the Foos in my book.

[evilfacelessturtle]

22 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

There's a big difference between having a conversation and what you're trying to do. I mean is this what you're like in real life? You must be a barrel of laughs.

What am I trying to do? Hold you accountable for the claims you're making?

 

22 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

"Oh yeah where's the quote" as if you haven't heard all these same things said countless times especially, whether I supply you with a quote or not.

I have heard Democrats claim Trump is responsible for things he has no control over? I can't think of any examples of that, which is why I'm asking you to tell me what example you're thinking of. It shouldn't be hard to do, you must have been thinking of an example when you said that. Unless you were just bluffing.

22 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Also, a healthy understanding is not a 'I know it all' stand in, plenty I don't know about US law, economics etc

The problem is that you don't know one of the most basic things there is to know about the three branches of government.

Would you say that someone who thinks cars don't need oil changes has "a healthy understanding" of automotive mechanics?

22 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

You have a tendency to read into what I'm saying and add your very own narrative that has zero basis in reality.

That's interesting, where did I "add my own narrative", specifically? Oh right, you balk at any request back up your accusations or claims. You just say things and move on because you know you're bluffing your way through this.

22 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

I never said the president controlled any of those things,

I will quote you directly, word for word (though I'm sure once again it won't stop you from accusing me of misrepresenting you):

"Piss off with "not his fault". That argument is out the window."

"You're either the president and the buck stops at you or you're not. When failings happen it is on your shoulders regardless who you try and tag with the smell instead. So they can point to who controls Congress which of course is a huge hurdle but no, if you can't get it done with 8yrs you've failed to do your job."

"Under Biden/Harris inflation has ballooned meaning the savings Americans had for housing are eaten into, and the unemployment levels have also raised and the general rising cost of living"

"As for my point about the buck stopping with the people in charge, I stand by that and that's how voters look at it too, if you are in charge when I'm doing great/bad I'm going to remember that, same goes for if you do/don't follow through with policy plans I care about. So blah, blah this that and the other, end of day the people in charge are who the stink stays on."

You're very clearly saying that the president is responsible for everything, that's literally what "the buck stops here" means. How can you be responsible for something if you don't have control over it?

22 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

what I did say is pretty simple but you clearly cannot follow, so repeating myself is pretty redundant

That you're trying to backtrack and walk it back to "well, he may not control everything but people think he does and will hold him responsible anyway" is pretty clear and simple.

22 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

I suggest taking a breather before replying next time😉 ...but also please don't reply this time🙏

I'm not the one resorting to juvenile personal attacks about being fun at parties. If you're this upset about being held to a standard of consistency and rigor, just stop making confident declarations about things you don't understand (i.e. presidential power).

Edited August 26 by evilfacelessturtle

[Tom2112]

4 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Yeah, but I meant it more from our perspective: Is it fair of us to put blame on people who are not at fault for something? Or praising someone for something they didn't do? I am sure that if we know they are not at fault, then we won't blame them, either, so maybe this is more about people not realizing that some things are to a large extent outside individual politician's control. You wouldn't think to blame a politician for a devastating hurricane hitting a city, so why blame a politician for macroeconomic trends similarly outside of their control? You can blame both for how they react to the hurricane/macroeconomic trends, though.

Of course you can't blame a politician for natural disasters. But yes, you can blame them if the clean up and repair falls short which in a lot of cases it has... (The Hawaii fires is a recent example).

I take your larger point, but I don't really align with giving politicians any slack whatsoever, outside of the very, very few that are actually trying to do something good (0.00000000000001% of politicians to be exact). 

Anyway back to the election talk. This has derailed spectacularly.

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

What am I trying to do? Hold you accountable for the claims you're making?

 

I have heard Democrats claim Trump is responsible for things he has no control over? I can't think of any examples of that, which is why I'm asking you to tell me what example you're thinking of. It shouldn't be hard to do, you must have been thinking of an example when you said that. Unless you were just bluffing.

The problem is that you don't know one of the most basic things there is to know about the three branches of government.

Would you say that someone who thinks cars don't need oil changes has "a healthy understanding" of automotive mechanics?

That's interesting, where did I "add my own narrative", specifically? Oh right, you balk at any request back up your accusations or claims. You just say things and move on because you know you're bluffing your way through this.

I will quote you directly, word for word (though I'm sure once again it won't stop you from accusing me of misrepresenting you):

"Piss off with "not his fault". That argument is out the window."

"You're either the president and the buck stops at you or you're not. When failings happen it is on your shoulders regardless who you try and tag with the smell instead. So they can point to who controls Congress which of course is a huge hurdle but no, if you can't get it done with 8yrs you've failed to do your job."

"Under Biden/Harris inflation has ballooned meaning the savings Americans had for housing are eaten into, and the unemployment levels have also raised and the general rising cost of living"

"As for my point about the buck stopping with the people in charge, I stand by that and that's how voters look at it too, if you are in charge when I'm doing great/bad I'm going to remember that, same goes for if you do/don't follow through with policy plans I care about. So blah, blah this that and the other, end of day the people in charge are who the stink stays on."

You're very clearly saying that the president is responsible for everything, that's literally what "the buck stops here" means. How can you be responsible for something if you don't have control over it?

That you're trying to backtrack and walk it back to "well, he may not control everything but people think he does and will hold him responsible anyway" is pretty clear and simple.

I'm not the one resorting to juvenile personal attacks about being fun at parties. If you're this upset about being held to a standard of consistency and rigor, just stop making confident declarations about things you don't understand (i.e. presidential power).

My oh my. I might frame this post🤣 

Look once again, hats off for your copy and paste work I wouldn't have the stomach to read your posts a second time, but if your intent was to sway me in any way or make me think you have any valuable insights you've failed once again 👍 I'll take my political lectures from someone else with a more nuanced understanding of politics, not the guy who flys off the handle anytime someone says democrat (and yes, that was where I lost all respect for your "unbiased" opinion).

And with that, continue on 'til your hearts content, I'm not playing anymore👍

[SoulMonster]

5 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Of course you can't blame a politician for natural disasters. But yes, you can blame them if the clean up and repair falls short which in a lot of cases it has... (The Hawaii fires is a recent example).

I take your larger point, but I don't really align with giving politicians any slack whatsoever, outside of the very, very few that are actually trying to do something good (0.00000000000001% of politicians to be exact). 

Anyway back to the election talk. This has derailed spectacularly.

Hehe, yes, it has derailed quite a bit

It is not only in politics, in business too will heads roll if things go bad even if it is due to things outside the executives' control, like pandemics or recessions. It's unfortunate, in my opinion, but it is what it is. I will try to be more fair and judge people based on their actual performance and not based on external events. 

[Sweersa]

15 hours ago, Cosmo said:

Foo Fighters suing Trump for unauthorized use of "My Hero" on his campaign rallies. Point for the Foos in my book.

I think Guns did something similar with his use of November Rain.