The US Politics/Elections Thread 2.0

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Trump lost it like Harris knew he would. Still lying.

He is talking all over about how great he did in the debate and he won. The man is getting more insane as time goes on.

If America votes for this liar and criminal, we are all lost.

[Tom2112]

3 hours ago, downzy said:

Hence he had more opportunities to respond to her attacks, regardless of whether he took the time or was given it.

Kamala was asked why her positions have changed on gun restrictions and fracking.  They didn't need to pushback on those instances because they were baked into the moderator's questions. 

There were many instances where Trump avoided questions posed but did not get push back from the moderators.

On the issue of abortion, the only pushback was on the discrepancy between Trump's answer and that of his running mate's, who claimed that Trump would veto a national abortion ban.  It wasn't a "you once said this, and now you're saying this" kind of question. 

I'm not sure why a follow up question that attempts to discern any discrepancy between Trump and his running mate on an important issue is grounds for accusing the moderators of being biased.  If Walz had spoken for Harris on a policy issue that differed with her stated position in the debate, I'm sure they would have asked Harris for clarification on that as well.  

Sure, get clarification. It's not  exactly great if there's differing answers from running partners. I'm not familiar with what he said beyond the quote that was referenced... however he tends to hold idiotic positions so it tracks that the context probably matches the quote.

Trump didn't answer certain questions, and he's being rinsed for it. It's only fair to give the same treatment to your preferred candidate. End of the day she's VP and holds some responsibility to the decisions made in the last 3 1/2 yrs whether she likes it or not, this should not be a point you're arguing.

[evilfacelessturtle]

22 hours ago, Sweersa said:

I have a question for Europeans here, as my few European friends are fairly right-leaning, and I'd appreciate a different or fresh perspective. It is my understanding parts of Europe are having an immigration crisis with immigrants from Arab countries. I am told, and in some cases have been shown, that many of these immigrants are younger males, and they largely do not assimilate into western society, and have committed crimes of varying severity against Europeans.  Is there any truth to this? Or is it as serious as a problem as I've been lead to believe?

Should I look up the crime statistics, or just ask people what their feelings tell them is true? Hmm...

"Adopting this empirical approach to implement a causal research design, and contrary to the 'immigration causes crime’ populist view expressed in some media and political debate, we find no evidence of an average causal impact of immigration on criminal behaviour. "

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/2193-9039-2-19#Sec16

"recent waves of immigration have not resulted in an increase in recorded crime, but rather may have contributed to the crime drop"

https://kar.kent.ac.uk/62927/1/Immigration and the Crime Drop.pdf

"No evidence that migration affects the overall level of crime."

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5ba26c1de5274a54d5c39be2/Final_EEA_report.PDF

Quote

I've seen riots in Ireland and England where it appears people are marching to preserve their culture from been further corrupted from 3rd world countries.

Jesus Christ...

"To ensure that the peoples of the world remain true to their traditions and faiths and do not become watered down and corrupted by the influence of outsiders, they must be separate."

"I am simply a White man seeking to protect and serve my community, my people, my culture"

 - The Christchurch Mosque Shooter

https://www.hoplofobia.info/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/PG-Manifesto.pdf

"White supremacists are adept at hiding in plain sight by ... masking nefarious intent with thinly veiled phrases (“preserve our culture”)"

https://www.adl.org/resources/report/very-fine-people

"In 2021 a poll found that in the state of Oregon, nearly four in 10 respondents strongly or somewhat agree with statements that reflect core arguments of white nationalism. In 2018, 31 percent believed that America had to protect or preserve its White European heritage, while in 2021 it went up to 40 percent.[112]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nationalism

"“Something is waiting for [all those of Turkish origin in Germany] in 2012. We will use a new weapon to achieve our political goals and to preserve our culture as of next year,” the group said in its email to Özkan. "

https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/minister-gets-neo-nazi-mail-9729

Edited September 12 by evilfacelessturtle

[Sweersa]

1 hour ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

Should I look up the crime statistics, or just ask people what their feelings tell them is true? Hmm...

"Adopting this empirical approach to implement a causal research design, and contrary to the 'immigration causes crime’ populist view expressed in some media and political debate, we find no evidence of an average causal impact of immigration on criminal behaviour. "

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/2193-9039-2-19#Sec16

"recent waves of immigration have not resulted in an increase in recorded crime, but rather may have contributed to the crime drop"

https://kar.kent.ac.uk/62927/1/Immigration and the Crime Drop.pdf

"No evidence that migration affects the overall level of crime."

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5ba26c1de5274a54d5c39be2/Final_EEA_report.PDF

Jesus Christ...

"To ensure that the peoples of the world remain true to their traditions and faiths and do not become watered down and corrupted by the influence of outsiders, they must be separate."

"I am simply a White man seeking to protect and serve my community, my people, my culture"

 - The Christchurch Mosque Shooter

https://www.hoplofobia.info/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/PG-Manifesto.pdf

"White supremacists are adept at hiding in plain sight by ... masking nefarious intent with thinly veiled phrases (“preserve our culture”)"

https://www.adl.org/resources/report/very-fine-people

"In 2021 a poll found that in the state of Oregon, nearly four in 10 respondents strongly or somewhat agree with statements that reflect core arguments of white nationalism. In 2018, 31 percent believed that America had to protect or preserve its White European heritage, while in 2021 it went up to 40 percent.[112]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nationalism

"“Something is waiting for [all those of Turkish origin in Germany] in 2012. We will use a new weapon to achieve our political goals and to preserve our culture as of next year,” the group said in its email to Özkan. "

https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/minister-gets-neo-nazi-mail-9729

Yeah, how dare I ask those who actually live in an area of the topic of interest for their outlook/experiences. 

If you want to talk about xenophobia, why leave Asian countries out of the conversation? 

Open your eyes, brother, before it's too late. Everyone should be proud of who they are, and where they came from, and be respectful to their brothers and sisters in Christ. (Since you brought up Jesus Christ)

[downzy]

6 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Trump didn't answer certain questions, and he's being rinsed for it. It's only fair to give the same treatment to your preferred candidate. End of the day she's VP and holds some responsibility to the decisions made in the last 3 1/2 yrs whether she likes it or not, this should not be a point you're arguing.

Harris did a great job in the debate in one respect and a rather lousy job in another.

She excelled at reminding everyone how unhinged and temperamentally unfit Trump to be President again.  Her best line of the night is tying his refusal to accept the outcome of the 2020 election to his inability or unwillingness to see facts and reality.  She repeatedly baited him that not only distracted him from attacking her, but also stoke his anger and lack of control for everyone to see.

But she didn't do a great job at making it clear what she stands for on the economy.  Her first answer was a dodge and a big missed opportunity.  I don't think she helped herself with respect to giving voters a reason to vote for her versus a reason not to vote for Trump.  It's so strange to me that she and her advisors didn't have better responses prepared on inflation and the economy.  There are actual responses that wouldn't have avoided the questions and given people assurance that she has a concrete idea of what is happening and how to make things better.

The only area where I think she has to dodge is on her flip flopping on issues like gun control and fracking.  She can't give the real reason why her positions in 2020 were so far too the left (i.e., she was trying to capture the support of the Bernie Sanders wing of the party).  

I'd also wish she'd acknowledge that Trump was right on China with respect to tariffs, but use the concession to attack him for not being hard enough on China (i.e., by not doing anything to prevent China from accessing U.S. tech IP) while also saying that the U.S. cannot literally afford to treat the rest of the world as if it's China by imposing a 10-20 percent across the board tariff on all imports.  There's ways to carve up a Trump victory on this issue into a defeat.

So yeah, there's a lot Harris could have done better.  Democrats and pundits who say that Harris gave the greatest debate performance in American political history are kidding themselves.  She completely undressed and revealed Trump for who he is, but she didn't do enough advocating for why people should vote for her. 

[Tom2112]

18 hours ago, downzy said:

Harris did a great job in the debate in one respect and a rather lousy job in another.

She excelled at reminding everyone how unhinged and temperamentally unfit Trump to be President again.  Her best line of the night is tying his refusal to accept the outcome of the 2020 election to his inability or unwillingness to see facts and reality.  She repeatedly baited him that not only distracted him from attacking her, but also stoke his anger and lack of control for everyone to see.

But she didn't do a great job at making it clear what she stands for on the economy.  Her first answer was a dodge and a big missed opportunity.  I don't think she helped herself with respect to giving voters a reason to vote for her versus a reason not to vote for Trump.  It's so strange to me that she and her advisors didn't have better responses prepared on inflation and the economy.  There are actual responses that wouldn't have avoided the questions and given people assurance that she has a concrete idea of what is happening and how to make things better.

The only area where I think she has to dodge is on her flip flopping on issues like gun control and fracking.  She can't give the real reason why her positions in 2020 were so far too the left (i.e., she was trying to capture the support of the Bernie Sanders wing of the party).  

I'd also wish she'd acknowledge that Trump was right on China with respect to tariffs, but use the concession to attack him for not being hard enough on China (i.e., by not doing anything to prevent China from accessing U.S. tech IP) while also saying that the U.S. cannot literally afford to treat the rest of the world as if it's China by imposing a 10-20 percent across the board tariff on all imports.  There's ways to carve up a Trump victory on this issue into a defeat.

So yeah, there's a lot Harris could have done better.  Democrats and pundits who say that Harris gave the greatest debate performance in American political history are kidding themselves.  She completely undressed and revealed Trump for who he is, but she didn't do enough advocating for why people should vote for her. 

I agree, she had an open goal in some regards. He had a few points too where he had a good shot too and decided to just brag about crowd size or some other shite. Also the part where he was asked about his alternative for Obama care was hilarious. He's been on about that for a long time, and he couldn't say buggar all in what he could do better... besides make it better and cheaper (great but how??)

But what you said a few days ago is true, debates don't seem to matter. There's a marginal change in the polls in favour of Kamala, and within a week it could be right back where it was before. 

Edited Friday at 09:21 PM by Tom2112

[evilfacelessturtle]

23 hours ago, Sweersa said:

Yeah, how dare I ask those who actually live in an area of the topic of interest for their outlook/experiences. 

If you cared about finding the truth, you would look at data, not ask for opinions.

Quote

If you want to talk about xenophobia, why leave Asian countries out of the conversation? 

What about - what about - what about?!?!?! Gotta change the subject!

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Xenophobia is bad no matter who is doing it. Your assumption tells me that your idea of what the left believes is simply what the right wing media tells you they believe.

And it shouldn't need to be said, but of course for you it does; I have more control over things that happen in my own country or an ally that shares much of our culture, than I do over China.

Quote

Open your eyes, brother, before it's too late. Everyone should be proud of who they are, and where they came from, and be respectful to their brothers and sisters in Christ. (Since you brought up Jesus Christ)

Can you explain to me why pride is a good thing?

Last I checked, Pride is literally The Original Sin in Christianity, and is also a sin in every other major religion as well. Hilariously ironic that you would try to tie it in to religion, leading yourself into the most obvious trap.

I'd also like to know what national pride has to do with xenophobia. You just used the two interchangeably, although you would certainly call me a crazy lefty for doing the same. Funny how that works...

National pride doesn't mean excluding and scapegoating immigrants, or using vile language about them "corrupting" our culture as if they are a disease.

Pride also doesn't mean preservation. If you actually cared about preserving culture, you would be against all modern technology. No, you pick and choose what you want to preserve, and coincidentally it's the ethnic makeup that you decide needs to be preserved. "Culture" is a dogwhistle and everyone knows it.

Edited Friday at 10:39 PM by evilfacelessturtle

[evilfacelessturtle]

On 9/12/2024 at 10:25 PM, downzy said:

Her best line of the night is tying his refusal to accept the outcome of the 2020 election to his inability or unwillingness to see facts and reality.  She repeatedly baited him that not only distracted him from attacking her, but also stoke his anger and lack of control for everyone to see.

I think that really exposed how easily Trump can be manipulated.

And if he can be manipulated that easily in a debate, just imagine him in a negotiation room with Putin.

"The CIA says he did it. Putin says he didn't do it. I don't see any reason why it would be Russia" - Trump on election interference

Edit: Not to mention how easily he fell for an obvious hoax about immigrants stealing and eating people's pets.

Quote

But she didn't do a great job at making it clear what she stands for on the economy.  Her first answer was a dodge and a big missed opportunity.  I don't think she helped herself with respect to giving voters a reason to vote for her versus a reason not to vote for Trump.  It's so strange to me that she and her advisors didn't have better responses prepared on inflation and the economy.  There are actual responses that wouldn't have avoided the questions and given people assurance that she has a concrete idea of what is happening and how to make things better.

Agreed, though I heard someone suggest that she was expecting to get an opening statement, but they just went straight into questions, so she wanted to still get some of that in there.

At the very least, when asked if Americans are better off than 4 years ago, she should have responded immediately with "Absolutely." This is yet another example of how Dems never act as their own cheerleaders. Trump could have the economy in the 2nd Great Depression and he would still be saying it's the greatest economy in history. Dems need to get it through their heads that confidence and self promotion are critical in shaping public opinion.

I think a good response on fracking would have been "I changed my position in response to the will of the voters. I believed then and still do now that the environmental damage of fracking is an issue, but as I became aware of how much the Pennsylvania economy relies on fracking, I realized that banning it entirely would do more harm than good."

Edited Saturday at 02:50 AM by evilfacelessturtle

[Rindmelon]

Someone seems to have taken a shot at him again, guy with AK style gun arrested. Tried to shoot him on his golf course

[Tom2112]

7 hours ago, Rindmelon said:

Someone seems to have taken a shot at him again, guy with AK style gun arrested. Tried to shoot him on his golf course

There's a lot of loonies out there. 

Thing is if either gunman had been successful, what would they have achieved? He'd be dead, but the people that support him would be forever cemented in their positions much more than they are today (hard to believe, but it's true). Obviously, I don't think these people have clear minds when they are putting these plans together. A lot of it is for the notoriety. 

One thing is clear from the last attempt, Some of the opposition support is insane when it comes to this stuff... paraphrasing here "Big deal, he didn't die, nothing to talk about", the response should be the same no matter your politics or what candidate is getting shot at. 

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Another assassination on Trump's life. His ego is so BIG he doesn't think it's because of him. He is again blaming Biden/Harris for this.

The news said the golf course was changed at the last minute. Either it's someone in Trump's camp or this guy has been stalking him.

Either way, maybe Trump should look inside himself and say maybe it's ME.

 

[Tom2112]

21 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

Another assassination on Trump's life. His ego is so BIG he doesn't think it's because of him. He is again blaming Biden/Harris for this.

The news said the golf course was changed at the last minute. Either it's someone in Trump's camp or this guy has been stalking him.

Either way, maybe Trump should look inside himself and say maybe it's ME.

 

It's not just his campaign It's the media circus. Every day you have this 'Trump is bad, Hitler, dictator' message being sent out and people are wound up by it. It's not really Harris/Bidens issue although, they have obviously fed stories through channels to news stations to rile up people or gain support so their hands aren't clean. And the Trump team are just as guilty of leaking info to news agencies. The whole election process needs to be reevaluated. It doesn't need to be this heated, it's insane.

[downzy]

On 9/13/2024 at 5:20 PM, Tom2112 said:

But what you said a few days ago is true, debates don't seem to matter.

I think they matter, just not in the way most people think.

This debate was a higher risk for Harris than Trump.  She had a lot of momentum coming into the debate that could have been stopped or reversed had she put in a bad performance.  Her "win" helps perpetuate the momentum and might help move some undecided voters to supporting.  A performance like Trump's should, in a normal country, take him back 10-20 points.  But in an election as close as this one, even if it shifts voters by 0.3 - 0.5 percent, it could make the difference.  I think Harris's win keeps her in the drivers seat and allows her to go on offence.  Trump, on the other hand, has spent most of the past week trying to defend his pet eating comment and raging on Taylor Swift.

The other thing that Harris was successfully able to do, at least with Pennsylvania, is use the debate to remind the 800k Polish-based community what's at stake should Trump win.  Her message was specific to a certain set of voters in a crucial swing state that might make the difference in not only that state but the entire election.

 

[downzy]

On 9/13/2024 at 6:38 PM, evilfacelessturtle said:

At the very least, when asked if Americans are better off than 4 years ago, she should have responded immediately with "Absolutely." This is yet another example of how Dems never act as their own cheerleaders. Trump could have the economy in the 2nd Great Depression and he would still be saying it's the greatest economy in history. Dems need to get it through their heads that confidence and self promotion are critical in shaping public opinion.

Trump's in a fortunate position where he only really has to appeal to enough morons who will accept everything he says.

Harris doesn't have that luxury.  If she gloats too much about the current economy, she comes off as callous, insensitive and indifferent to the struggles many have faced with the bout of inflation we went through.

At the very least, instead of a re-introduction to her back story, she should have dumped numbers and stats.  Four years ago, America was dealing with double digit unemployment, falling wages, and a bear stock market.  She could make the case that inflation was a global issue, one that America did better than any other developed country.  The Biden administration has worked hard to bring back inflation to below levels prior to the pandemic.  Then turn to her child-tax credit that would save families $4000-$6000 a year.  Then converse that to the tariffs Trump wants to levy on foreign products that would cost the average American family $4k a year.  Trump's economic policies are tailor made to bring back high inflation.

I think an answer like that would have been received much better than the one she gave.

[downzy]

These would-be assassins all seem alike in the sense that they're nutters who are looking for infamy.

Trump could make it easier on the secrete service by not being so exposed all the time, but we all know that's not going to happen.

Nice of Trump (and Elon) to ask why no one tries to shoot Biden or Harris shortly after they caught the guy. 

Class act.

[Rindmelon]

People seem to have completely forgotten when this guy tried kill him years ago. He had autism and was returned to the UK 

 

 

Someone tried to rush Berine too. I get the feeling that this probably happens far more than you might think. At no point have I seen these brought up anywhere either today or when that Incel looking nerd guy took a shot at him weeks back.

Edited Monday at 08:06 PM by Rindmelon

[downzy]

Also being reported that the guy never took a shot, so charges are limited to gun possession offences. 

[Rindmelon]

39 minutes ago, downzy said:

Also being reported that the guy never took a shot, so charges are limited to gun possession offences. 

Yeah looks like he ran off after a secret service member opened fire on him

[evilfacelessturtle]

Quote

paraphrasing here "Big deal, he didn't die, nothing to talk about", the response should be the same no matter your politics or what candidate is getting shot at. 

Paraphrasing because nobody actually said anything like that whatsoever.

Here are some actual statements by the biggest Democratic party figures:

"Jill and I are grateful to the Secret Service for getting him to safety. There’s no place for this kind of violence in America. We must unite as one nation to condemn it." - Joe Biden

“I have been briefed on reports of gunshots fired near former President Trump and his property in Florida, and I am glad he is safe. Violence has no place in America,” - Kamala Harris

"I am horrified by what happened at the Trump rally in Pennsylvania and relieved that former President Trump is safe." - Chuck Schumer

"There is absolutely no place for political violence in our democracy. Although we don’t yet know exactly what happened, we should all be relieved that former President Trump wasn’t seriously hurt, and use this moment to recommit ourselves to civility and respect in our politics." - Barack Obama

"As one whose family has been the victim of political violence, I know firsthand that political violence of any kind has no place in our society" - Nancy Pelosi

Pelosi, of course, referring to her husband getting his skull bashed in with a hammer by a Trump supporter, which Trump went on to mock at a rally while other Republicans started a lie that he was attacked by a gay lover. 

But yes, keep telling us how this is more of a left wing issue... remind me when Biden or Harris mocked Trump for being shot at and started a conspiracy that he was shot by a gay lover? I'll wait...

Edited Monday at 11:59 PM by evilfacelessturtle

[evilfacelessturtle]

5 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Every day you have this 'Trump is bad, Hitler, dictator' message being sent out and people are wound up by it. 

I'm still waiting for anyone to argue even a single point of the 14 Tenets of Fascism that Trump doesn't fit...

FFS, he said it himself that he will be a dictator on day one, and given the chance to walk it back by Sean Hannity, he doubled down. He called his opponents VERMIN for fuck's sake. What the heck will it finally take for y'all to see what's right in front of your eyes? Jesus Christ...

[evilfacelessturtle]

5 hours ago, downzy said:

Trump's in a fortunate position where he only really has to appeal to enough morons who will accept everything he says.

Harris doesn't have that luxury.  If she gloats too much about the current economy, she comes off as callous, insensitive and indifferent to the struggles many have faced with the bout of inflation we went through.

At the very least, instead of a re-introduction to her back story, she should have dumped numbers and stats.  Four years ago, America was dealing with double digit unemployment, falling wages, and a bear stock market.  She could make the case that inflation was a global issue, one that America did better than any other developed country.  The Biden administration has worked hard to bring back inflation to below levels prior to the pandemic.  Then turn to her child-tax credit that would save families $4000-$6000 a year.  Then converse that to the tariffs Trump wants to levy on foreign products that would cost the average American family $4k a year.  Trump's economic policies are tailor made to bring back high inflation.

I think an answer like that would have been received much better than the one she gave.

I'm really talking about a broader strategy, which would have to originate from the media because they can always take greater risks than an actual candidate. Just as right wing media has done, they can set the stage and frame the discourse so that it won't even be a risk to speak positively about the economy. Just look at how the right wing media can create crime wave narratives out of thin air. It's unfortunate, but public perception is heavily guided by media. And if only one side is shamelessly using their media to push their narratives, the other side will always be playing defense because the Overton Window has already been set by the other side.

Absolutely agreed though that she needed to address inflation head-on and drive it into the public's head that it was a global phenomenon that we actually weathered better than most countries. The fact that that isn't a talking point every Dem across the country is beating into the skulls of the public is a failure in itself. I just don't understand how Dems are so bad at messaging. There are almost never any talking points on any issue. Where is our canned response to "guns don't kill people, people kill people"? Why is "social responsibility" not just as much an overused trope as "personal responsibility"? They've had 30 years of watching Fox eat their lunch and they still keep leaving it on the table marked "please don't eat".

Almost any positive statement can be said to be dismissing the struggles of some group of people. Dems just need to stop being afraid to be their own cheerleaders.

[Tom2112]

2 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

I'm still waiting for anyone to argue even a single point of the 14 Tenets of Fascism that Trump doesn't fit...

FFS, he said it himself that he will be a dictator on day one, and given the chance to walk it back by Sean Hannity, he doubled down. He called his opponents VERMIN for fuck's sake. What the heck will it finally take for y'all to see what's right in front of your eyes? Jesus Christ...

Dumbass. He's been president before and he wasn't a dictator. I don't remember the dictatorship America between 2016-2020 but maybe I missed something that only a big brain like you can explain😄 Do you know what an actual dictatorship looks like? Pretty sure people were actively attacking Trump throughout his presidency and they didn't get abducted in the middle of the night and murdered or threatened, pretty sure Trump didn't decide to kill millions of people, pretty sure there's a lot of things missing that would make him an actual dictator... are you mixing bully up dictator. So you can say "but he said it" but there's words and then there's actions. 

I will enjoy hearing all the things Trump did, and then pointing out how the majority of those things continued under Biden/Harris but please go right ahead. Democrats good Trump bad is your basic political belief system and it's flawed. Looking forward to your copy and paste work (sarcasm, please don't bother). 

You need to step outside and touch grass. You read/watch so much BS slanted takes your head is full of garbage. 

[Tom2112]

7 hours ago, downzy said:

I think they matter, just not in the way most people think.

This debate was a higher risk for Harris than Trump.  She had a lot of momentum coming into the debate that could have been stopped or reversed had she put in a bad performance.  Her "win" helps perpetuate the momentum and might help move some undecided voters to supporting.  A performance like Trump's should, in a normal country, take him back 10-20 points.  But in an election as close as this one, even if it shifts voters by 0.3 - 0.5 percent, it could make the difference.  I think Harris's win keeps her in the drivers seat and allows her to go on offence.  Trump, on the other hand, has spent most of the past week trying to defend his pet eating comment and raging on Taylor Swift.

The other thing that Harris was successfully able to do, at least with Pennsylvania, is use the debate to remind the 800k Polish-based community what's at stake should Trump win.  Her message was specific to a certain set of voters in a crucial swing state that might make the difference in not only that state but the entire election.

 

I do think she won that debate though. And you are correct that in this tight race as small as 0.3-0.5% may be that could be the decider. She was on point, she remembered her lines and she came across relatively composed and confident and that goes a long way in swaying people... it could be one of the few times they hear them speak so she used her time relatively well. She was a savvy politician on that stage, avoid what makes me look bad, accentuate anything I can possibly brag about, lead my opponent down paths that highlight their weaknesses. 

Nobody in their right mind is going to defend bringing up eating pets on the debate stage, it 'could' possibly be true but it's not verified and for that reason it's not worth the risk, and he should have known that... he just sounded like a lunatic. Stick to the points people are familiar with (immigration, economy) I think that statement could be a deciding factor for some voters for sure!

What did she say that sways the Polish vote? I don't recall anything standing out in particular?

But yes a lot of this is true, but you're missing some things that Trump is saying that are worthwhile and focussing on the garbage, for example the impact of sanctions on the dollar (countries now trading in other currencies forming their own trade agreements, which weakens America's hold worldwide). This is something that has been talked about by economists since the sanctions were put on Russia, an actual important issue and I'm yet to hear the Democrats talk about this. The only thing they seem to want to do is push this war into a worse situation, at the very least with Trump he's talking about seeking a peace deal, that's not even a discussion with Biden/Harris... so as voters, are you happy that your government is actively pushing this agenda? I think a lot of Americans resent that their taxes are spent outside the US, and if they knew that the things that are being done could very easily turn into a very bad financial situation for America in an approx 5-15yr timeframe they'd be less pleased again.

[downzy]

34 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

He's been president before and he wasn't a dictator. I don't remember the dictatorship America between 2016-2020 but maybe I missed something that only a big brain like you can explain

Habits and tendencies of dictators:

Not accepting election results.

Attempting to overturn election results.

Sowing distrust in election results in your supporters; doing next to nothing when they violently attempt to interfere in democratic institutions.

Demanding immunity from any and all prosecution

Using foreign policy to undermine your likely electoral opponent

Systematic efforts to intimidate the media

Demanding loyalty from career public officials (military generals, civil servants)

Using state power to reward corporate backers and punish opponents

 

I can think of more, but I think you get the gist...

[Tom2112]

3 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

Paraphrasing because nobody actually said anything like that whatsoever.

Here are some actual statements by the biggest Democratic party figures:

"Jill and I are grateful to the Secret Service for getting him to safety. There’s no place for this kind of violence in America. We must unite as one nation to condemn it." - Joe Biden

“I have been briefed on reports of gunshots fired near former President Trump and his property in Florida, and I am glad he is safe. Violence has no place in America,” - Kamala Harris

"I am horrified by what happened at the Trump rally in Pennsylvania and relieved that former President Trump is safe." - Chuck Schumer

"There is absolutely no place for political violence in our democracy. Although we don’t yet know exactly what happened, we should all be relieved that former President Trump wasn’t seriously hurt, and use this moment to recommit ourselves to civility and respect in our politics." - Barack Obama

"As one whose family has been the victim of political violence, I know firsthand that political violence of any kind has no place in our society" - Nancy Pelosi

Pelosi, of course, referring to her husband getting his skull bashed in with a hammer by a Trump supporter, which Trump went on to mock at a rally while other Republicans started a lie that he was attacked by a gay lover. 

But yes, keep telling us how this is more of a left wing issue... remind me when Biden or Harris mocked Trump for being shot at and started a conspiracy that he was shot by a gay lover? I'll wait...

You're such a cock. 

Paraphrasing because I know If I don't say that, you will ask for some fucking article with the exact quote. Go back through this thread, go through facebook/instagram comments after he was shot and you will see exactly what I paraphrased and worse. I read one that said "I wish they blew his head off". Also, I'm not talking about party members making comments, I'm talking about dipshits like you on social media.