Covid-19 Thread

[SoulMonster]

Why less people die:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/covid-fatality-improving/

[Gavin82]

France confirms 2nd full lock down too start soon

[DieselDaisy]

50,000 errant cancer diagnoses because of the kung flu estimated, creating cancer ticking time bomb.

9 hours ago, spunko12345 said:

I agree. Its fucked.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/27/eighteen-people-in-hospital-as-migrant-boat-sinks-off-french-coast

 

Incongruent.

Edited October 29, 2020 by DieselDaisy

[SoulMonster]

Wearing a face mask for the first time right now. I can get used to this. 

[Lio]

33 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Wearing a face mask for the first time right now. I can get used to this. 

Oh really? I still hate it. As I'm mostly at home or out in the open air, luckily I don't have to wear it much, but I still have trouble breathing in it. Plus it's hot. I suppose that won't be a problem this time of year in Norway.

[DieselDaisy]

Only wore one once back in June. Never again.

[SoulMonster]

38 minutes ago, Lio said:

Oh really? I still hate it. As I'm mostly at home or out in the open air, luckily I don't have to wear it much, but I still have trouble breathing in it. Plus it's hot. I suppose that won't be a problem this time of year in Norway.

It is warm, yes, and breathing feels different. But obviously enough air gets through so it is just a matter of getting used to it, I suppose. 

Cold in Norway, yes, but I am out travelling. Hence the need to wear a mask. 

9 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Only wore one once back in June. Never again.

Oh what a child you are. 

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Oh what a child you are. 

Why is that? I haven't conceivably been in a situation where I have been expected or required to wear a mask.

[Dazey]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Why is that? I haven't conceivably been in a situation where I have been expected or required to wear a mask.

You haven't been in a shop since June?

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Dazey said:

You haven't been in a shop since June?

No. 

[Dazey]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

No. 

Bollocks! How have you managed not to starve then? 

[DieselDaisy]

68% increase in suicides in London alone. London Ambulance Service attending 37 attempted suicides per day (compared to 22 in 2019).

Just now, Dazey said:

Bollocks! How have you managed not to starve then? 

I thought you would be even more aware than me of a certain thing called online delivery?

[SoulMonster]

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Why is that? I haven't conceivably been in a situation where I have been expected or required to wear a mask.

Because of your childishly rebellious statement that you will never wear a mask again. 

I believe I remember a post from Diesel where he talked about shopping for relatives. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by SoulMonster

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Because of your childishly rebellious statement that you will never wear a mask about. 

It would be funny if you argued with your former self on the subject of masks. Even Boris would be embarrassed by the level of your u-turn. 

[action]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It would be funny if you argued with your former self on the subject of masks. Even Boris would be embarrassed by the level of your u-turn. 

soulie is with Trump on the subject of mouth masks, both being on record to heavily criticise the use of face masks, and ridicule those who do.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

It would be funny if you argued with your former self on the subject of masks. Even Boris would be embarrassed by the level of your u-turn. 

I have always been an advocate of following recommendations from the health experts. If they don't recommend wearing masks, or even advice against it -- because it is considered to not be beneficial due to low spread or because of uncertain supply -- then I will not wear one; and when they do say I have to wear one, like right now, I wear one. It is not more complicated that that, although that is apparently too complicated for you. 

Just now, action said:

soulie is with Trump on the subject of mouth masks, both being on record to heavily criticise the use of face masks, and ridicule those who do.

Only you when you insisted on wearing one when it was not recommended. Right? 

[Dazey]

9 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

68% increase in suicides in London alone. London Ambulance Service attending 37 attempted suicides per day (compared to 22 in 2019).

I thought you would be even more aware than me of a certain thing called online delivery?

So hand on heart you're saying you've not set foot in any commercial premises since June? You've not taken public transport anywhere? 

[action]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

I have always been an advocate of following recommendations from the health experts.

but this is precisely the problem: you acted on here as if you WERE an expert, not missing an opportunity to refer to your knowledge on bacteriae and viruses.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, action said:

but this is precisely the problem: you acted on here as if you WERE an expert, not missing an opportunity to refer to your knowledge on bacteriae and viruses.

Is it really a problem that you felt I acted like an expert? And keep in mind that I regularly explicitly stated I wasn't? 

No, that wasn't a problem. The problem is your inability to think. 

[action]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I have always been an advocate of following recommendations from the health experts.

 

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Is it really a problem that you felt I acted like an expert?

you're adocate to follow the recommendations from health experts. YOU acted like an expert. A bird brain then has to conclude that we have to follow you..... but you were wrong.

that is the problem, it always was. 

Then you come on here, anouncing that you wore a mask for the first time today.

My goodness...

[DieselDaisy]

 

1 minute ago, Dazey said:

So hand on heart you're saying you've not set foot in any commercial premises since June? You've not taken public transport anywhere? 

Why would I? I work from home, and there is literally no purpose to travel (holidays*, pubs/restaurants and sport attendance all utterly buggered). Further, my relatives, or the ones I want to visit, are all in walking (or jogging) distance.  

*You are already aware that my holiday plans collapsed. 

[SoulMonster]

And in case anyone is wondering:

I am not an expert on infectious diseases or any diseases, really. I am not a doctor or an epidemiologist. Any advice I might give on health matters is coming from a non-professional. 

But I do have a PhD in molecular biology, more specifically bacterial genetics, and this makes me an expert on microbiology, including viruses, their structure, function and evolution. I have also worked for 12 years in the drug development and manufacture industry, which makes me somewhat on an expert on vaccines and other drugs. 

Still, credentials shouldn't matter. I always try to argue well for my statements, and cite relevant research when appropriate. My arguments should be able to stand on their own without this background information. One of the things I really like about discussion forums is the fact that we don't enter them with credentials, our arguments must be inherently valid on their own. 

[action]

truth, to soulmonster, is what the expert say at a given point in time.

if on march 20th experts say mouth masks don't help, then that it the truth.

if in hindsight it appears that this is wrong, then it does not matter: truth must be determined at the given point in time, on march 20th.

People who disagree with experts on march 20th, are wrong, and remain wrong even if time agrees with them. Time has no influence on truth, again, truth can only be determined on specific points in time.

that is why soulmonster can argue today, october 29th, that mouth masks help and claiming this as truth, while at the same time claiming that the truth, on march 20th, was completely the opposite. Both statements are true, even if totally contradictory.

2+2=5

Edited October 29, 2020 by action

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, action said:

truth, to soulmonster, is what the expert say at a given point in time.

No, the advice and recommendations given by experts aren't necessarily the "truth", but the best advice and recommendations we can receive since they come from those people who know the most about the issues at hand. 

And the reason why advice regarding the wearing of face masks may change during a pandemic, because of unknowns in regards to infectious pathways, uncertain supply, the management of fear vs actual benefit, is so obvious and has been discussed in detail many times before in this thread. If you still don't get it, there is nothing I can do about it

[action]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

No, the advice and recommendations given by experts aren't necessarily the "truth", but the best advice and recommendations we can receive since they come from those people who know the most about the issues at hand. 

And the reason why advice regarding the wearing of face masks may change during a pandemic, because of unknowns in regards to infectious pathways, uncertain supply, the management of fear vs actual benefit, is so obvious and has been discussed in detail many times before in this thread. If you still don't get it, there is nothing I can do about it

the quantum mechanics of soulie's argument:

Soulie's argument is like the 1/2 spin of a particle, which is undetermined until observed. the actual spin on the particle can point anywhere, until it is measured. there is no determined spin, the truth is spliced up in time, and may change with the wind.

it is therefore impossible to crack soulie's code, and determine what his real argument it. What may be true today, can be wrong tomorrow. But each truth must have equal validity, or you effectively negate all your credibility.