Covid-19 Thread

[DieselDaisy]

And as suspected, Corona immunity, a ''rich man's'' positioning.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55052381

All a big con really to penalise the poor. All the people advocating lockdowns are derived from the upper middle classes and can afford to relinquish work, or can work from home. Your cleaner or waiter cannot afford to take time off work. Your carer who wipes arse for a living cannot full stop cease working. 

[SoulMonster]

3 hours ago, action said:

how can it hurt other people?

It potentially hurts all the other morons who don't vaccinate themselves, it potentially hurts all the people who for different reasons can't get vaccinated, and it potentially hurts all the people where the vaccines have a short or insufficient effect. Additionally, if we really want to get rid of the virus once and for all (like we have managed to do with a couple of other virus diseases), we need everybody to vaccinate themselves so that the virus doesn't live on through reservoirs of anti-vaxxers. If we can get rid of it, we save untold future lives.

[RussTCB]

I've heard of at least two restaurants near me who've decided to say fuck it regarding the current executive order for all dining rooms to be closed. 

Ridiculous. 

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, action said:

it would simply not be feasible to force a yearly vaccination. That's the whole population of the nation, that needs to get a vaccination each year, perhaps two times a year. I'd like to see them implement such an obligation.

It would be a logistic challenge, true, but not an insurmountable difficulty as you make it seem  

[SoulMonster]

4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

 A mandated corona vaccine would therefore be a gross escalation in statist power and anathema to our political culture.

Again, it wouldn't be any different than any other laws that tell us what to do or not to do. And I have already pointed to some such laws earlier. This idea that laws regarding vaccine are somehow entirely different than other laws, is asinine and the result of a cognitive misfire.

[action]

12 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It potentially hurts all the other morons who don't vaccinate themselves, 

these people can vaccinate themselves.

And if they don't, how the hell is that my fault?

14 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

 it potentially hurts all the people where the vaccines have a short or insufficient effect. 

again, what has this got to do with me? if I don't take the vaccin, then someone else can have it

[action]

15 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

 we need everybody to vaccinate themselves so that the virus doesn't live on through reservoirs of anti-vaxxers. If we can get rid of it, we save untold future lives.

you can not get rid of viruses through obligatory vaccinations, see polio

[DieselDaisy]

59 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Again, it wouldn't be any different than any other laws that tell us what to do or not to do. And I have already pointed to some such laws earlier. This idea that laws regarding vaccine are somehow entirely different than other laws, is asinine and the result of a cognitive misfire.

You're ignoring my point that a stipulated vaccination law would be thoroughly unprecedented in the United Kingdom and antithetical to our political culture. It does not matter what your opinions are on this subject: this is simply the situation, and a situation existing in a multitude of countries. 

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

I've heard of at least two restaurants near me who've decided to say fuck it regarding the current executive order for all dining rooms to be closed. 

Ridiculous. 

Good on them I say. Small businesses are being utterly destroyed by a system of punitive lockdowns based on shoddy science, even gaining some opposition from the WHO, 

Any small business owner who opposes this brutal statism gets my support.

[action]

the more stupid you are, the more you look for scapegoats for disasters  that just "happen"

scapegoats, make the ignorant and hypocrites feel better about themselves

Sometimes, bad things just happen, and it's nobodies fault. like in the case of covid.

People with limited intellectual capabilities fail to grasp this, fail to accept the inevitable, and put all their trust in dodgy vaccinations, lockdown measures and other bollox like washing hands and wearing toilet paper on your nose. In their view, these measures (have to) work perfectly, because the opposite is impossible for them to accept, and so if someone refuses to take part in their fearmongering, the scapegoat is found and needs to be burned on the firepile.

[RussTCB]

9 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Good on them I say. Small businesses are being utterly destroyed by a system of punitive lockdowns based on shoddy science, even gaining some opposition from the WHO, 

Any small business owner who opposes this brutal statism gets my support.

Oh OK, so the huge surges in Covid cases weren't caused by everything being open again? 

LOL, OK. 

3 minutes ago, action said:

the more stupid you are, the more you look for scapegoats for disasters  that just "happen"

scapegoats, make the ignorant and hypocrites feel better about themselves

Sometimes, bad things just happen, and it's nobodies fault. like in the case of covid.

People with limited intellectual capabilities fail to grasp this, fail to accept the inevitable, and put all their trust in dodgy vaccinations, lockdown measures and other bollox like washing hands and wearing toilet paper on your nose. In their view, these measures (have to) work perfectly, because the opposite is impossible for them to accept, and so if someone refuses to take part in their fearmongering, the scapegoat is found and needs to be burned on the firepile.

So what's the alternative? Just open everything, don't wear masks, don't wash your hands and let millions more die? 

[soon]

And here I thought one of the distinguishing factors of a small business owner is that they arent as focoused on macro economics in the more finite sense. ie, It is not where their expertise lays.

[action]

34 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

So what's the alternative? Just open everything, don't wear masks, don't wash your hands and let millions more die? 

There is a lot of assuming here, but very little proof of anything.

I think you too easily assume that we have many options to chose from, to battle a virus.

in my opinion, for alternatives to exist, first you need to establish that our actions have an influence on the virus.

It is becoming more and more clear though, that nothing that we do, lockdown or no lockdown, has an influence on the evolution of the virus.

there are countries with little or no lockdown, who have better numbers than countries that have lockdowns.

*insert RussTCB laugh emoticon here*

 

[RussTCB]

10 minutes ago, action said:

It is becoming more and more clear though, that nothing that we do, lockdown or no lockdown, has an influence on the evolution of the virus. 

Except of course for the fact that the rate of infections dropped like a rock when the full lock downs were in place. 

Outside of that undeniable fact, sure, there's no evidence that anything we do has an influence on not spreading the virus. 

[action]

17 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Except of course for the fact that the rate of infections dropped like a rock when the full lock downs were in place. 

 

there are reports that this is not true

source: Continual lockdowns are not the answer to bringing Covid under control | Coronavirus | The Guardian

[action]

to put my position on vaccinations in perspective: my son has had every vaccination known under the sun, I even asked the doctor if there are other "optional" vaccination he could get, and he said indeed and he came up with something that sounded like greek to me, but my son still got it.

all these established vaccinations, have years and years worth of proving themselves, and the side effects are tested and known.

the reason I'm against covid vaccination, at this point in time, is that the same time frame reference isn't available for the various covid vaccinations, and because there were too many side effects reported to my liking. So that's why I'm taking a cautious position, and won't have a vaccination for at least two years.

[RussTCB]

15 minutes ago, action said:

there are reports that this is not true

source: Continual lockdowns are not the answer to bringing Covid under control | Coronavirus | The Guardian

There are reports to prove just about everything on the internet. The fact that the cases actually dropped during the lockdowns means more to me than any report on the internet claiming otherwise through twisting the facts to fit their narrative. 

[action]

1 minute ago, RussTCB said:

There are reports to prove just about everything on the internet. The fact that the cases actually dropped during the lockdowns means more to me than any report on the internet claiming otherwise through twisting the facts to fit their narrative. 

it is of course your good right to hold that belief, but seeing how there are cases to contradict that theory, there is no hard proof

it is our "intuition" that tells us, lockdowns must help. And anything that violates our "intuition" is seen as stupid.

if everything went according to our intuition however, the world would be a vastly different place

[soon]

25 minutes ago, action said:

there are reports that this is not true

source: Continual lockdowns are not the answer to bringing Covid under control | Coronavirus | The Guardian

That's an opinion piece and it states this,

Quote

The UK initially made the mistake of treating coronavirus like flu. It was late to lock down, initially allowing the virus to spread through the population like a common cold.

 

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

Oh OK, so the huge surges in Covid cases weren't caused by everything being open again? 

LOL, OK. 

You are not acknowledging the repercussions of lockdown such as recessionary economies, business closures, mass unemployment, homelessness, mental health problems and suicides.

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by DieselDaisy

[RussTCB]

17 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

Jesus christ, shut up

LOL, this. 

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You are not acknowledging the repercussions of lockdown such as recessionary economies, business closures, mass unemployment, homelessness, mental health problems and suicides.

 

I get that. But then there's that whole "millions of people dying" thing. 

[soon]

10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You are not acknowledging the repercussions of lockdown such as recessionary economies, business closures, mass unemployment, homelessness, mental health problems and suicides.

 

So what you re saying is that the pandemic exasperates existent problems in a capitalist society?

Its almost as if we should use this as an opportunity to change or economy to minimize all those ills going forward.

Never return to the "dig and gig" neoliberal capitalism of the pre-Covid era. Because it too causes recessions, business closures, unemployment, homelessness, mental health problems and suicides.

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, RussTCB said:

LOL, this. 

I get that. But then there's that whole "millions of people dying" thing. 

People die! That is life! Yet the good news is that coronavirus has a death ratio of only around 1%. I have posted statistics in this thread, mostly ignored by covid-fascists, that the death ratio for countries - admittedly usually just the UK - is not much more inflationary than a ''normal'' year. 

The death ratio will of course sky rocket as a consequence of collapsing businesses, curtailed (non-corona) medical procedures and suicides. It is difficult to compute but I have already seen evidence of escalating suicide rates, and there have been multiple individually cases of delayed procedures (say for cancer) which will no doubt kill people. All this is naturally ignored by proponents of lockdown.

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, soon said:

So what you re saying is that the pandemic exasperates existent problems in a capitalist society?

Its almost as if we should use this as an opportunity to change or economy to minimize all those ills going forward.

Never return to the "dig and gig" neoliberal capitalism of the pre-Covid era. Because it too causes recessions, business closures, unemployment, homelessness, mental health problems and suicides.

Just what the world needs right now is another dose of Stalinism which failed as an experiment on multiple occasions over the twentieth century!

[soon]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Just what the world needs right now is another dose of Stalinism which failed as an experiment on multiple occasions over the twentieth century!

WTF re you talking about??