The "New Album" Thread. Thanks to the long ass thread, I’m going home!

[gavgnr]

Yup, it’s all our fault 😏

[DeNfr]

7 hours ago, DTV88 said:

I think it all depends on which songs already had vocals. I just don’t see anything new being recorded by Axl with his current voice. My bet is that everything we hear for the next few years, if we hear anything at all, will be CD2 songs with Slash and Duff pasted in. Hopefully that includes Atlas, Perhaps, and whatever else has vocals post Village. How many songs off of the leaked CD2 track list have we not heard yet?

like Rovim said in this thread Axl had all the time in the world to compose melodies and write lyrics to the tracks you know as The Village Sessions, plus probably songs that we don't even know they exist.

so no, these criterias didn't dictate Slash & Duff choices.

Edited March 11, 2023 by DeNfr

[DeNfr]

1 hour ago, Karice said:

It just occurred to me like 2 seconds ago that the reason that Guns N'Roses haven't released more songs from the vault is because of the lackluster response of Absurd and to a much lesser extent, Hardskool(Hardskool got a lot more love than Absurd, but still, it's not like,"Oh My God! This song is just as good as say Welcome To The Jungle!) Maybe if Absurd and Hardskool got a LOT of love, like say, Welcome To The Jungle gets, they'd release more songs from the vault. 🤔

 

I'm pretty confident this has nothing to do with how the songs were received by the fans and the general public.

[gavgnr]

19 minutes ago, DeNfr said:

 

I'm pretty confident this has nothing to do with how the songs were received by the fans and the general public.

I’m not so sure. You only have to see how some of those in the band’s inner circle reacted to the criticism. I genuinely believe it’s a case of…’you don’t like it, so you’re not gonna get it!’

[DeNfr]

21 minutes ago, gavgnr said:

I’m not so sure. You only have to see how some of those in the band’s inner circle reacted to the criticism. I genuinely believe it’s a case of…’you don’t like it, so you’re not gonna get it!’

 

they're not children, they're all grown ups, some of them are 60+, it's not highschool playground, it's a worldwide company with dozens of employees we're talking here. you can criticize the way they do business, but that's not based on some "show me yours i'll show you mine" nonsense

[Stay.Of.Execution]

1 hour ago, gavgnr said:

Yup, it’s all our fault 😏

Yes. It's scientifically proven. There can't be any other reason. Glad we cleared that one up

[Sweersa]

10 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

I mean if Axl never wrote lyrics and melodies for those instrumentals then it would be be a really strange move for GNR to develop those songs any further rather than have Slash/Duff and maybe some of the others make fresh ideas. If he had done those things and fine tuned the arrangements like he did with Shacklers etc. then sure I could see it... but also I think Slash is going along with Axl for the 2-6 tracks, but after that he will want his original input building the songs that he puts his name behind.

Horse before the cart here though.

Very well could be. It would be almost insulting for Axl to give Slash and Duff an instrumental he never recorded or wrote vocals for to do their version of it, especially since Slash probably couldn't duplicate or do some justice, especially the Bucket ones. 

[Sweersa]

13 hours ago, DTV88 said:

How many songs off of the leaked CD2 track list have we not heard yet?

Here's the list, with my notes in parenthesizes. 

Cuban Skies V (Not leaked, though a fan on another forum says Axl played him an instrumental of this song in 2003)

The General Ch V (Not leaked, but played in a 2010 Vienna after-party, partial rough cell phone audio recording leaked)

Atlas L (2000 and 2001 versions leaked)

Soul M V (2000 instrumental leaked under a different name but more or less confirmed as SM by Axl)

Silk H (2000 and later Bumblefoot version with vocals in one channel leaked. Officially released in 2021 as Absurd.)

Thyme L (2000 instrumental leaked for both Thyme and PRL)

Pro2 V (Leaked, assuming it's Blood In The Water)

Chi2 D V? (Not leaked)

Better2 (Leaked, assuming it's the piano version of Better, perhaps a version before DJ recorded on it, assuming it's him in the leaked mix)

TIL2 V (Leaked, assuming it's the TIL remix with an alt vocal take)

Goin Down (Leaked, both in the Village leaks and a later version with Bumblefoot and vocals in one channel)

Tonto V Br (Instrumental leaked)

Monstrocity V lyr (Not leaked, though it's possible it exists as a leaked instrumental under a different name, such as Zodiac 13  )

Catcher ? (Officially released on the 2008 album, and leaked prior and after with older mixes. Catcher was said to not be included in early CD track listings, this list confirms that)

Nothin ? (2000 mix leaked)

JChan ? (2000 mix leaked, and officially released as Hard Skool in 2021)

?? L editing V (Not sure what this is, PRL?)

Perhaps ? (2000 mix leaked)

OMG2 ? (Leaked, assuming it's the reworked OMG that leaked which have new parts by Buckethead and Bumblefoot. Axl also talked of a remix with lots of new vocals and a wilder guitar intro, so that's a version we have not heard yet)

4 Heavens. ? Sing (Partially leaked, assuming this is referring to alt later versions of KOHD, we have the acoustic mix with Axl and an electronic instrumental, so multiple (4?) mixes of this song probably exist.

Light My Fire (Not leaked)

So out of these named 21 tracks, we have heard 11 (including Catcher) mixes with vocals through leaks, and officially released media.

Counting instrumentals, add 3 additional tracks, so 14 out of 21.

Songs believed to have vocals missing from the list by their known names that are presumed to be on CD2 (or CD3, since that was more or less a thing) are:

Seven

Quick Song

Ides Of March

Berlin/Oklahoma

Untitled piano driven rocker that's not Perhaps heard at the Vienna 2010 after-party.  It was said other unknown songs were played.

(I may have missed a few)

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Sweersa

[Tom2112]

2 hours ago, Sweersa said:

Very well could be. It would be almost insulting for Axl to give Slash and Duff an instrumental he never recorded or wrote vocals for to do their version of it, especially since Slash probably couldn't duplicate or do some justice, especially the Bucket ones. 

I'd be a little miffed if it was me, and I was the most famous living rock guitarist being asked to do that. Not to say those songs don't have promise, but it would be insanity. I'm sure if there was something that was so good it had to be used then Axl wrote words for it though, if not he left it untouched for 20yrs and probably won't revisit it. But this is Axl and he has peculiar ideas of what gnr should do.

 

[Tom2112]

12 hours ago, Rovim said:

Tommy said that Axl has recorded vocals in each year Tommy was in the band right? and Axl worked with Pitman on finishing the second half of Chinese, and also said that that was completed for a while almost a decade ago. To me, completed means with vocals and a second half of Chinese means it's probably (just a guess) comparable in number of tracks to Chinese so that would mean enough tracks Axl wanted to release with vocals exist for a full album and for Slash and Duff to rerecord guitars and bass on.

Yeah I remember all of this. I guess maybe he has lost faith in some of the material in the context of a gnr record. I don't find it hard to believe that he has a finished album with 14 songs that he just isn't releasing

[Rovim]

3 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Yeah I remember all of this. I guess maybe he has lost faith in some of the material in the context of a gnr record. I don't find it hard to believe that he has a finished album with 14 songs that he just isn't releasing

but maybe the reason for not releasing more tunes yet is not really an issue Axl finds with the unreleased material, but more to do with what is the best way for Axl to release it. 20 years and a reunion with Slash and Duff didn't change his mind about wanting to release Absurd and it's still a regular in the live set, as is HS, even after the lukewarm reception.

in the past, before the release of Chinese, some unreleased new tunes that the band managed to create as the album was delayed, replaced older tunes that made it and were released as part of the album, but Slash said they didn't work on anything brand new.

what you're saying is possible, don't get me wrong but also that Axl didn't change his mind about some songs he wants to release, just like Absurd and HS.

I do wonder if it's something like Axl wants Slash to compose brand new shit and/or complete unfinished Axl tunes to see if some old stuff and new stuff would better represent what he wants to do now or can be a better Gn'R album, but of course there's no way to know that.

I think this is possible cause even if with that approach it would take years to complete, Axl is the kind of guy that is capable of not really minding it.

[tboneman]

https://blabbermouth.net/news/roger-daltrey-on-possibility-of-new-album-from-the-who-whats-the-point

"What's the point? What's the point of records? We released an album four years ago [2019's 'Who'], and it did nothing. It's a great album too, but there isn't the interest out there for new music these days. People want to hear the old music. I don't know why, but that's the fact."

 

Similar situation here. Maybe that's why we only got are box sets? Nostalgia sells better than new music/album. And record companies like to make their bucks. 

[Stay.Of.Execution]

Just now, tboneman said:

https://blabbermouth.net/news/roger-daltrey-on-possibility-of-new-album-from-the-who-whats-the-point

"What's the point? What's the point of records? We released an album four years ago [2019's 'Who'], and it did nothing. It's a great album too, but there isn't the interest out there for new music these days. People want to hear the old music. I don't know why, but that's the fact."

 

Similar situation here. Maybe that's why we only got are box sets? Nostalgia sells better than new music/album. And record companies like to make their bucks. 

Idiotic statement. Either you want to make music because you love being a musician and want to show the world your work, or you're not interested (or capable) in doing it anymore. But don't use the lack of interest as a reason.

[tboneman]

7 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

Idiotic statement. Either you want to make music because you love being a musician and want to show the world your work, or you're not interested (or capable) in doing it anymore. But don't use the lack of interest as a reason.

You can make new music all day long to the grave but if the record company isn't interested to promote your work it's a reason, a business reason. It's called a music BUSINESS after all.

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

Idiotic statement. Either you want to make music because you love being a musician and want to show the world your work, or you're not interested (or capable) in doing it anymore. But don't use the lack of interest as a reason.

I think that just like there are many personality types, there are also more than one type of musician and some of the older bands who got to know how it feels like to make a shitload of money from album sales and to gain a lot of interest in their new album back in the day as soon as it came out, they just don't see the point in putting in the work only for it to fizzle out quickly cause no one cares.

it's not like the artistic incentive alone works on every musician, even if that's what you expect from an artist. Especially if they don't really have the ability to create music in the same level when they were still at their creative peak.

[DeNfr]

 

it's the role of the record company to create the interest in the public, like in any business to create the envy to buy products, in general. these days they don't care that much because the money is in the tours. it can be changed but only by the consumers : we buy records, they'll care again, promoting albums with great narrative/storytelling/exciting events 

[AxlSlashthebest]

1 hour ago, tboneman said:

https://blabbermouth.net/news/roger-daltrey-on-possibility-of-new-album-from-the-who-whats-the-point

"What's the point? What's the point of records? We released an album four years ago [2019's 'Who'], and it did nothing. It's a great album too, but there isn't the interest out there for new music these days. People want to hear the old music. I don't know why, but that's the fact."

 

Similar situation here. Maybe that's why we only got are box sets? Nostalgia sells better than new music/album. And record companies like to make their bucks. 

At least they know that there is nothing to expect..........instead of us !!!!

[DeNfr]

 

I suggest people read the article, not only the title.
Townshend opinion is quite different from Daltrey's one. 

Edited March 12, 2023 by DeNfr

[smokingarthur]

With respect to the entirety of the pre and post CD recording sessions going back from the mid nineties to the most current date, I propose a theoretical observation that will be known simply as “Roses Paradox”. Simply put, if all this suggested material has been recorded, where is it? 

[SoulMonster]

15 minutes ago, smokingarthur said:

With respect to the entirety of the pre and post CD recording sessions going back from the mid nineties to the most current date, I propose a theoretical observation that will be known simply as “Roses Paradox”. Simply put, if all this suggested material has been recorded, where is it? 

Some of it was in Zutaut's locker. 

[gavgnr]

20 hours ago, DeNfr said:

 

they're not children, they're all grown ups, some of them are 60+, it's not highschool playground, it's a worldwide company with dozens of employees we're talking here. you can criticize the way they do business, but that's not based on some "show me yours i'll show you mine" nonsense

We’ll have to agree to differ

Edited March 12, 2023 by gavgnr

[Sweersa]

Let's say GN'R had CD2 completed in 2009-2014, which is more than reasonable to assume from statements band members (including Axl) have said.

Let's assume the next album is that same album, with Slash and Duff (and sometimes Frank) reworking their parts. 

Using Absurd and Hard Skool as a base, do you think the 2009-2014 CD2 (Buckethead, Robin, and some Bumblefoot) would be superior to CD2 with Slash and Duff? And by superior, I mean purely how good the album is, not necessarily technical.

I believe the CD-era CD2 would be superior in just about every way, including mixing and mastering.

Would be an interesting poll, CD CD2 vs NITL re-worked CD2. 

[gavgnr]

11 hours ago, Rovim said:

but maybe the reason for not releasing more tunes yet is not really an issue Axl finds with the unreleased material, but more to do with what is the best way for Axl to release it with maximum revenue return

I’ve added to your post. 

There seems to be a general consensus that an album release in itself is not a good way for bands to make money. So, why don’t they package the shit out of a new record? Vinyl, special editions, extras etc. like other bands do. Maybe when they say they haven’t figured out how to release new music, what they really mean is they haven’t come to an agreement (or are unable to come up with a game plan) for a packaged release money spinner. My view is that this is where an industry professional as manager would work wonders. The Betas have proven themselves in terms of organising tours, but that will have limited record company involvement. Maybe they struggle with negotiations with the label (or the label finds it difficult to deal with them) in terms of new music releases? 

Edited March 12, 2023 by gavgnr

[Tom2112]

10 hours ago, Rovim said:

but maybe the reason for not releasing more tunes yet is not really an issue Axl finds with the unreleased material, but more to do with what is the best way for Axl to release it. 20 years and a reunion with Slash and Duff didn't change his mind about wanting to release Absurd and it's still a regular in the live set, as is HS, even after the lukewarm reception.

in the past, before the release of Chinese, some unreleased new tunes that the band managed to create as the album was delayed, replaced older tunes that made it and were released as part of the album, but Slash said they didn't work on anything brand new.

what you're saying is possible, don't get me wrong but also that Axl didn't change his mind about some songs he wants to release, just like Absurd and HS.

I do wonder if it's something like Axl wants Slash to compose brand new shit and/or complete unfinished Axl tunes to see if some old stuff and new stuff would better represent what he wants to do now or can be a better Gn'R album, but of course there's no way to know that.

I think this is possible cause even if with that approach it would take years to complete, Axl is the kind of guy that is capable of not really minding it.

I think this is by far the most sensible way forward for gnr. Some Axl material some slash material. 

I didn't mean that he no longer Luke's the material, I was more suggesting he didn't think he would suit that gnr catalogue anymore. I also find that hard to believe after Absurd though😄

[Rovim]

2 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

I think this is by far the most sensible way forward for gnr. Some Axl material some slash material. 

I didn't mean that he no longer Luke's the material, I was more suggesting he didn't think he would suit that gnr catalogue anymore. I also find that hard to believe after Absurd though😄

I think Chinese is a very calculated record and that Axl kinda built it like a building and just kept updating the tunes he recognized as not only something he likes, but also the right musical bricks so it can become a Guns album or at least in the spirit of it, always coming back to the same tunes plus writing new ones.

It seems that once Axl stumbles across the "right" song, he kinda knows to what group it belongs, the songs that should be heard, potentially.

this is just the description of what I think his approach is, pure speculation. The weaker tunes are still important if they work in the context of the Chinese project imho, so poor reception could mean nothing to Axl if he feels like it's a part of his musical vision, if you believe he has one of course.

there were AAA/AA/A lists to keep it organized, but you can't just release the AAA and AA tunes, cause some of the A tunes are a part of the album, which was supposed to be a double.

Absurd and HS give me the Gn'R vibe. We're now at a point that we don't even know if it's going to be an album or just a selection of tunes from years ago.

my guess is that Axl won't stop to focus on the Chinese era at Hard Skool, and what is exciting for me is that what Slash said about the other CD era tunes he worked on seemed genuine. I think they're probably quality tunes just like he said.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Rovim