The "New Album" Thread. Thanks to the long ass thread, I’m going home!

[Rovim]

3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

That's a good question, of course. But we can immediately rule out the explanation that if songs aren't released, they don't exist. Hard Skool is proof of that. So is Atlas, which still isn't released. Axl can obviously sit on songs for ages. 

Assuming that more unreleased songs exist (and all evidence points in that direction), why haven't they been released yet? Why did it take more than 20 years to get Hard Skool out? 

I don't have the answer to that, but I have some thoughts. Axl obviously is okay with saving songs for future releases and he often has an idea of what to release and when (not in time but in sequential order). We know this from back in the 80s when some songs were left for the follow-up to Appetite. Partly because there wasn't room for them all, partly because of pushback from management and band members, but also partly because Axl wanted to expand the band soundwise, similar to what Queen had done. Axl didn't want to become a band like AC/DC, who had a certain mold for their songs. But even if Axl has these plans and ideas, or visions, it doesn't always come to fruition. Or rarely it does. Like his plans of releasing a bunch of EPs, which ultimately only became Lies and the Spaghetti Incident (turned into an LP).

With the music written after the breakdown of the UYI lineup, Axl worked on enough material to release 2-3 records. Originally the idea might have been 3 albums (but I think he let his excitement get away with him when this was mentioned live), but it was soon reduced to 2 albums. Assuming that the follow-up is ready, why have we not received it yet? Here are my thoughts:

1. He wanted to properly tour CD first. He said so much himself. Obviously, to him, just releasing isn't enough. The album demands a certain amount of representation live. He probably felt that if the songs weren't played live, properly, then the whole album release would be flawed. And he didn't get to tour CD properly in the US after its release because of problems with Live Nation and lawsuits. The "proper" touring happened a few years later.

2. The band wasn't so interested in releasing old songs. Or more precisely, Bumblefoot and DJ would much rather that they worked on new music (where they could get more involved and hence more money). I think this is pretty clear from the interviews in 2012-2015. Don't get me wrong, I am not at all saying Bumbles or DJ sabotaged a follow-up, just that Axl picked up on their wants.

3. But Axl could make a new record back then. He had all this old material that he wanted to release first. Again, things got to come in the right sequence. Things have to be right. Frank talked about how Axl always needs things to be perfectly perfect. Axl puts a lot of pressure on himself to make things right. I would add that what is right to Axl might seem weird to us, he is peculiar that way and can fuss and obsess over things we find not important. But to Axl it is important. Incredibly important. 

4. To release the old material he needed DJ involved. I mean, to Axl it was always important that the current band played on the band's releases. That's why DJ had Brain replacing Josh's parts, and then Frank adding bits here and there and recording the entire title song. That's why Bumbles came in and added fretless guitar all over. DJ would have to be included, too, which meant that someone would have to go out unless the songs would become even more dense. This isn't a trivial thing. It can hurt the music and it can hurt the relationship with previous members (like Robin if his parts were replaced with DJs new parts), it can make it legally harder to release (depending on what contracts exist with those who wrote and recorded the original parts).

All of this means that nothing really happened until 2016. With Slash and Duff back in the band it was easier to replace original musicians, at the very least because the promise of increased sales would be that much stronger. So Slash and Duff started working on selected songs and most likely these songs were ready to be released already in 2017/2018. But maybe not enough songs for an entire album, and maybe not the right songs for Axl to feel they belong together on an album. So how to release these songs? With album sales being very low, more money could come from individual single releases. The release of such singles could also be coordinated to touring events, or touring cycles, to keep things somewhat fresh and make the band appear "relevant" and "creative". So we got two such singles in 2021 and will likely get more over the next years.

Does this make sense? It does to me.

 

kind of a depressing post when you break it down like that. At least he didn't became a lawyer.

I think gaining more control and power over Gn'R, the not fun at all process of recording and releasing Chinese with lawsuits and band members leaving after the classic lineup was gone, technology and the changing musical landscape, the money in the reunion and the time and effort of touring extensively and Axl's perfectionist nature are all contributing factors to why very little music got released by Axl.

he seems so attached to the Gn'R name and what he has helped to build, that my guess is in the end it prevented him the freedom to do other things cause maybe he put all of his focus in rebuilding it in such a way that wasn't compatible with his personality and maybe even the trauma of shit not going his way and maybe even feeling abandoned by old Gn'R, even if he probably drove them away with his will to push the band's music forward at all costs which is ironic in a way to me as he didn't make enough moves within a reasonable amount of time for his original plan to succeed, so the ambition was there, but there was only focus on getting it right. Not getting it right before it was too late and before band members felt useless and that they're wasting their time like Josh for example or Robin...twice, or Bucket.

I think that maybe Axl felt that anything less than exactly how he thinks it was supposed to be when it came to the Chinese project was a hack move but in retrospect, letting go of Gn'R, at least temporarily and focusing on what he wants to do just as an artist, at least for a few years would have maybe been the more logical choice cause I believe there was demand for that and in theory he could have made the same record (Chinese) under his own name but I don't think he even seriously considered that cause judging by shit he said in interviews, that would have meant a defeat and letting all of the resources he put into building his Gn'R empire go to waste, even if I don't believe that would have been the case.

I believe Slash needed a few years to cool off, so even with no Axl Rose solo career and music, if he just took a few years to write music or just to kick it and relax, maybe VR would have never happened and right after the second failed Snakepit record they could have talked it out and buried the hatchet much earlier than 2015 or whatever, but I guess he was too bitter and adamant when it came to show and prove Slash that he can do it all by himself (with others players, that he doesn't need him to make a great Guns record) and maybe he did prove it, but it's less relevant for me as a fan with the number 1 priority of getting as much recorded music from Axl.

I wonder if he regrets the decision to continue Gn'R in the way that he did without Slash and how much motivation was lost after he properly toured Chinese.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Rovim

[betterman]

I dont think the General is single material, but on the other side Absurd wasnt either. And I dont speak of quality here, I`m sure this is a strong album track, but with these dark lyrics, length and maybe complexity I think of maybe Atlas or Oklahoma (wich maybe was soundchecked last tour w/o vocals) will go better over with the general public

[El Guapo]

12 minutes ago, betterman said:

I dont think the General is single material, but on the other side Absurd wasnt either. And I dont speak of quality here, I`m sure this is a strong album track, but with these dark lyrics, length and maybe complexity I think of maybe Atlas or Oklahoma (wich maybe was soundchecked last tour w/o vocals) will go better over with the general public

They need a real banger this time around but I don't think they have any ready to go.

All of these old ass Chinese leftovers won't do it, I'm afraid. Certainly not the ones we've heard from the leaks.

[betterman]

I thought Hard Skool was a banger though, but it s not easy to promote a track that is 20  years old, we know that the basics and vocals was recorded years ago and also many of the media outlets reported that. 

I think it is wise to choose a song that we have not heard (in completion with vocals) 

[Towelie]

1 hour ago, betterman said:

I thought Hard Skool was a banger though, but it s not easy to promote a track that is 20  years old, we know that the basics and vocals was recorded years ago and also many of the media outlets reported that. 

I think it is wise to choose a song that we have not heard (in completion with vocals) 

Watch it be Eye On You.

[tboneman]

1 hour ago, betterman said:

I thought Hard Skool was a banger though, but it s not easy to promote a track that is 20  years old, we know that the basics and vocals was recorded years ago and also many of the media outlets reported that. 

I think it is wise to choose a song that we have not heard (in completion with vocals) 

I think an actual real music video with the band performing the song together would've done something. Like how many people watched the first new RHCP or Metallica video just because they were curious what the band looked and sounded like these days? That's also newsworthy to sites like Rolling Stone or NME or whatever to report. Hard Skools "Lyric Video" really isn't the same thing even with some live clips in it. People would have shared the clips of the video "Check out Axl and Slash!" or whatever. 

And of course playing the song live on a talk show would've helped too. People would've checked the clip on YouTube or Instagram etc. even if they don't watch the television anymore. 

[Rovim]

3 minutes ago, tboneman said:

I think an actual real music video with the band performing the song together would've done something. Like how many people watched the first new RHCP or Metallica video just because they were curious what the band looked and sounded like these days? That's also newsworthy to sites like Rolling Stone or NME or whatever to report. Hard Skools "Lyric Video" really isn't the same thing even with some live clips in it. People would have shared the clips of the video "Check out Axl and Slash!" or whatever. 

And of course playing the song live on a talk show would've helped too. People would've checked the clip on YouTube or Instagram etc. even if they don't watch the television anymore. 

yeah but when was the last time Axl was featured on a music video? (that actually was officially released)

he showed no interest in doing that for a long time now so even with the possible buzz it could generate for Gn'R, I think it's unlikely to happen, even if they decide to release a full album for example, but with Axl you never know.

band members don't have to appear on a music video for it to be a cool one imo, but again, don't know if Axl is interested in doing that kind of thing anymore.

[Frankfurt93]

to end this discussion about 'why', if they could have finished the material according to GNR standards 9 - they would have done so 

It obviously takes a lot more than just Slash/Axl/Duff, and the other hired hands don't cut it, see Hardskool and absurdly bad Absurd.

It is good they actually are not so blind and dilussioned that they actually see that and don't drag GNR '87 - '93 further into ditches.

[betterman]

19 minutes ago, Rovim said:

yeah but when was the last time Axl was featured on a music video? (that actually was officially released)

he showed no interest in doing that for a long time now so even with the possible buzz it could generate for Gn'R, I think it's unlikely to happen, even if they decide to release a full album for example, but with Axl you never know.

band members don't have to appear on a music video for it to be a cool one imo, but again, don't know if Axl is interested in doing that kind of thing anymore.

Rock the rock  

They might do the cartoon video again then

[Rovim]

2 minutes ago, Frankfurt93 said:

to end this discussion about 'why', if they could have finished the material according to GNR standards 9 - they would have done so 

It obviously takes a lot more than just Slash/Axl/Duff, and the other hired hands don't cut it, see Hardskool and absurdly bad Absurd.

It is good they actually are not so blind and dilussioned that they actually see that and don't drag GNR '87 - '93 further into ditches.

no, not obviously since we don't know that the reason for "why" is cause lack of talent. The current line up is plenty talented imo and there are no shortage of brilliant and classic Gn'R tunes that Izzy didn't have anything to do with. Not trying to take anything away from Izzy, but your post is based on your opinion and nothing more so no, it didn't end the discussion.

[Rovim]

1 minute ago, betterman said:

Rock the rock  

They might do the cartoon video again then

yes, and by "them" I'm guessing you mean Warner Bros.

[Tom2112]

23 hours ago, tboneman said:

Well I wasn't calling for them to take risk per se, just commenting about the statement that "they take risks". But since you asked: I'd been happy if they would write shorter songs for change. There's only one song that's under 4 min on the album. Two under 5 min. Many of the songs on the album are needlessly long. How about cut lot of the long boring parts and work more on interesting parts. You can have longer songs on a album but let them stand out. When there's 11 songs on a album and 7 of them are over 6 min, to me that's too much. And no wah-wah on solos for Kirk. His solos are nowadays just blah. They are there just to fill a space. And use more Trujillo. I think he only sings backing vocals on one song. Or how about guest musician? Another (metal) singer or guitarist. 

Guest musician hell no.

More backing vocals from Rob hell no.

Some shorter songs, yes. I think there's 3 solos on 72 seasons that are decent, the rest I could take or leave. I have nothing against his use of wah, that to me is an internet thing that people have jumped on similar to how X factor fans became aware of the term auto tune and started throwing it around. He uses his wah a lot, but I don't think he'd suddenly be a better more interesting player without it

[Tom2112]

On 4/17/2023 at 11:31 AM, Rovim said:

playing inside an active volcano. 

 

I think it's a mistake to think that just because a musician is rich, older, and famous, there is nothing more for them to say. Not to compare talent here, but Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Leonard Cohen, Nick Cave, etc. If you need more examples, I'll make a list. all of these people still had something to say when they were at Axl's current age and beyond that as well imo.

also, Axl released Absurd and HS 20 years more or less after those were written so at least partially, he seems to have no issue of releasing tunes that contain lyrics from when he maybe had a different perspective on life, I'm not sure.

Axl also seems to be one of those people who always got a lot of things to say, opinionated, maybe it still translates in a musical and lyrical context. So far, he always had something that I related to in each and every Guns album.

Catcher's lyrics for example seem timeless, as in he could have released that song 20 years from now and it would still be just as powerful lyrically imho. Case by case basis, it depends on the person. Some musicians do run out of shit to say, but for others, it doesn't. 

 

I don't think Axl has run of things to say. I think he could make another great record. But when we talk about Axl it's always 'Could've, should've' speak, he doesn't have the musical drive the other artists you mentioned. And if he does, then he doesn't have the drive to see it through, release it and let it be judged.

[Rovim]

4 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

I don't think Axl has run of things to say. I think he could make another great record. But when we talk about Axl it's always 'Could've, should've' speak, he doesn't have the musical drive the other artists you mentioned. And if he does, then he doesn't have the drive to see it through, release it and let it be judged.

honestly, I think Axl already made another great (unreleased) record at the very least. The drive to make another one, idk. 

[DTJ80]

49 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Guest musician hell no.

More backing vocals from Rob hell no.

Some shorter songs, yes. I think there's 3 solos on 72 seasons that are decent, the rest I could take or leave. I have nothing against his use of wah, that to me is an internet thing that people have jumped on similar to how X factor fans became aware of the term auto tune and started throwing it around. He uses his wah a lot, but I don't think he'd suddenly be a better more interesting player without it

My issue is the ‘when and where’ of the wah….it just sounds wrong at the start of Screaming Suicide and then you get random 5-second wah breaks which don’t fit.

He used to use it much less than now and sometimes I feel that his wah on top of Lars drums (which are simple nowadays) means some songs sound very similar at points. If that makes sense. 🤣

I think 8/9 of the 12 are good to excellent so I’m quite happy on that front!

[Tom2112]

3 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

My issue is the ‘when and where’ of the wah….it just sounds wrong at the start of Screaming Suicide and then you get random 5-second wah breaks which don’t fit.

He used to use it much less than now and sometimes I feel that his wah on top of Lars drums (which are simple nowadays) means some songs sound very similar at points. If that makes sense. 🤣

I think 8/9 of the 12 are good to excellent so I’m quite happy on that front!

I agree with this, I don't think every melody needs to be wah(ed) but I guess it's like zakk wylde and pinch harmonics and his overdrive, fuzz, phaser guitar solo tone he uses on every song now.

I think it's a producer role to say "take your foot off the wah Kirk, feet where I can see them". So until they get someone willing to hide the wah I don't see it going away, but again I also don't think the ideas without it are going to be drastically better 

[Tom2112]

51 minutes ago, Rovim said:

honestly, I think Axl already made another great (unreleased) record at the very least. The drive to make another one, idk. 

I might have argued the greatness of his unreleased material too, but that was before Hardskool, Absurd and the locker leaks.

He might have made a great (unreleased) record though😄

[Sweersa]

16 hours ago, ShadowOfTheWave said:

That was @Mindray11 who attended the Vienna show and recorded The General on his cellphone. He said they played "more than 3" unreleased songs, including one that was similar in style to SOD, and two remixes.

Very interesting! I wonder if Soul Monster was played? @Mindray11 I'm sure it's nearly impossible to remember if anything was played that resembles the Village instrumental Me & My Elvis?

I'm sure that would be a fun night to relive over and over. Then you could have multiple attempts in finding the iPod/CD player/PC that feeds the speakers.  

Edited April 18, 2023 by Sweersa

[rumandraisin]

16 hours ago, ShadowOfTheWave said:

That was @Mindray11 who attended the Vienna show and recorded The General on his cellphone. He said they played "more than 3" unreleased songs, including one that was similar in style to SOD, and two remixes.

I'm guessing Atlas. Silkworms was also played I remember reading. 

[Sweersa]

2 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

I'm guessing Atlas. Silkworms was also played I remember reading. 

I recall Silkworms, The General, and If The World remix, from what those who were there said. I believe someone said there was a piano driven rocker that wasn't Perhaps as well. 

[Guest]

The original VIP Clip did have Silkworms on it as well as The General, would love to hear the other songs that were played that night

[Sweersa]

4 minutes ago, Shacklermyrye said:

The original VIP Clip did have Silkworms on it as well as The General, would love to hear the other songs that were played that night

The fact that the band felt they had mixes suitable to play at a party tells me they planned on releasing music around that time, much like Axl bringing songs to clubs in 2006. 

I have no doubt those 2010 mixes were Bucket and Robin material, with Bumble likely on there too, which would make sense for the time. Sadly, I don't think they will be improved with the NITL lineup on an eventual release, but I'd love to have both mixes to make the comparison. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Sweersa said:

The fact that the band felt they had mixes suitable to play at a party tells me they planned on releasing music around that time, much like Axl bringing songs to clubs in 2006. 

I have no doubt those 2010 mixes were Bucket and Robin material, with Bumble likely on there too, which would make sense for the time. Sadly, I don't think they will be improved with the NITL lineup on an eventual release, but I'd love to have both mixes to make the comparison. 

I spent way too many hours in 2014 trying to pull apart an de-noise that clip to figure out lyrics ect.

I believe the version of Silkworms they played had the Bumblefoot guitar lead parts on that we later heard on the leak that came out along with OMG.

What I thought the lyrics were are completely different to what Evader thought they were. The last time I spoke to him he told me the only reason he has any interest left in the band was to see how close his version of that tune is to the actual song

[Sweersa]

13 minutes ago, Shacklermyrye said:

I spent way too many hours in 2014 trying to pull apart an de-noise that clip to figure out lyrics ect.

I believe the version of Silkworms they played had the Bumblefoot guitar lead parts on that we later heard on the leak that came out along with OMG.

What I thought the lyrics were are completely different to what Evader thought they were. The last time I spoke to him he told me the only reason he has any interest left in the band was to see how close his version of that tune is to the actual song

I appreciate your efforts.

Upon my listening to The General clip from that party, before the high piercing Axl vocals (where I can hear a few words clearly) the calmer, softer Axl bits in the beginning sound just like him going: "Oooooooooo-----oooooooo" As in "ewwwww" (or close) so not any actual lyrics, but a melody. Not sure if it's intended to be placeholder or not, but he does that a lot, especially with the CD stuff. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

I appreciate your efforts.

Upon my listening to The General clip from that party, before the high piercing Axl vocals (where I can hear a few words clearly) the calmer, softer Axl bits in the beginning sound just like him going: "Oooooooooo-----oooooooo" As in "ewwwww" (or close) so not any actual lyrics, but a melody. Not sure if it's intended to be placeholder or not, but he does that a lot, especially with the CD stuff. 

Hopefully we find out someday. Some of the lyrics I convinced myself of after about 80 hours of work or so were.

"I can hear you can't see you" then I thought a second sort of voice lept in and said "I have a monsters right, Monsters call me, monsters coming"

Then the heavy section came in and in that i remember being convinved there was a line that went "There's no stopping now, down in the fucking ground. Energy energy we put out, too many suffer in this world & i'll bring you down. Out fucking strippers now it seems you got no time, you might have bought the ticket but you haven't read the sign."

Also the very last thing you hear in the clip sounds like "I know what your thinking".

I'm fully aware how daft it sounds that I took all that from a clip that sounds like noise and obviously the words Evader heard were very different. This was like 9 years ago, i do wonder if more modern programs would have more sucsess at cleaning it up in this day and age.

If and when we do hear it I doubt I got a single word or even letter right lol.