The "New Album" Thread. Thanks to the long ass thread, I’m going home!

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

I think every Stones song is better than anything from Taylor Swift. Million of people would disagree but it’s my taste, not theirs, not yours. 

Well, if you just happened to like rock and not modern pop then that is possible. That could explain how, if you were to rank the hundreds of songs we are now talking about, all Stones' songs would be ranked higher. I mean, these are very different types of songs from quite different genres (although there are some overlap in style, too), and some have issues with female singer. It is absolutely conceivable that you can be such a "rock hound" or so disconnected to more modern pop music, that it would end up that way. Whatever it is, I get that it is possible.

But with the Illusions and the four new singles you can't make that broader genre division, you can't easily see what the differences are from a music perspective. You end up having to rank songs which all are all quite sprawling in style and type and the only real difference between, say, Perhaps and many songs off the Illusions, is who was the drummer and when was it written. It is much harder to point to any meaningful musical difference between these songs. And then it is very natural to think that your opinion to rank all Illusion songs above the four new singles are less about the music and more about, well, politics and allegiance. And you might not even be sufficiently self-cognizant to realize this. You might think it is because Perhaps and Hard Skool are (in your opinion) worse songs than So Fine and My World, but in reality your attempt at objective is being overridden by the strong emotions you might have on the not-musical aspects of the band. It is hard to be objective, especially for diehard fans. In fact, what makes diehard fans is exactly the inability to view the music objectively.

[Free Bird]

29 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Well, if you just happened to like rock and not modern pop then that is possible. That could explain how, if you were to rank the hundreds of songs we are now talking about, all Stones' songs would be ranked higher. I mean, these are very different types of songs from quite different genres (although there are some overlap in style, too), and some have issues with female singer. It is absolutely conceivable that you can be such a "rock hound" or so disconnected to more modern pop music, that it would end up that way. Whatever it is, I get that it is possible.

But with the Illusions and the four new singles you can't make that broader genre division, you can't easily see what the differences are from a music perspective. You end up having to rank songs which all are all quite sprawling in style and type and the only real difference between, say, Perhaps and many songs off the Illusions, is who was the drummer and when was it written. It is much harder to point to any meaningful musical difference between these songs. And then it is very natural to think that your opinion to rank all Illusion songs above the four new singles are less about the music and more about, well, politics and allegiance. And you might not even be sufficiently self-cognizant to realize this. You might think it is because Perhaps and Hard Skool are (in your opinion) worse songs than So Fine and My World, but in reality your attempt at objective is being overridden by the strong emotions you might have on the not-musical aspects of the band. It is hard to be objective, especially for diehard fans. In fact, what makes diehard fans is exactly the inability to view the music objectively.

It’s not about my opinion. Every human has his own taste and his personal preference, so each person decides on his own what he prefers. You aren’t setting the bar for anyone but yourself. There are people who eat human faeces. Not my problem, not my choice, but some people do.

Edit: regardless of genre it can happen that somebody prefers every Illusion song to the new singles. The music and style is different enough.

 

Edited August 23 by Free Bird

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

It’s not about my opinion. Every human has his own taste and his personal preference, so each person decides on his own what he prefers. 

My argument is that when it comes to ranking the new singles below everything on the Illusions, that opinion/taste preference has likely less to do with the objective quality of the songs and more to do with other things. There are simply so few discernable musical denominators between these songs to warrant this ranking that it makes more sense to think that what we are dealing with here are fans who are emotionally attached to certain songs beyond the music itself. Which is what fans are, I suppose. Very few of us are fans of Guns N' Roses as such. We are fans of the specific GN'R that gave us Appetite, or the GN'R that gave us the Illusions, or the GN'R that gave us Chinese. Very few are fans of the entirety of it (some are and that is really cool).

[jamillos]

26 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

My argument is that when it comes to ranking the new singles below everything on the Illusions, that opinion/taste preference has likely less to do with the objective quality of the songs and more to do with other things. There are simply so few discernable musical denominators between these songs to warrant this ranking that it makes more sense to think that what we are dealing with here are fans who are emotionally attached to certain songs beyond the music itself. Which is what fans are, I suppose. Very few of us are fans of Guns N' Roses as such. We are fans of the specific GN'R that gave us Appetite, or the GN'R that gave us the Illusions, or the GN'R that gave us Chinese. Very few are fans of the entirety of it (some are and that is really cool).

Once again, through superfluous, verbose paragraphs you’re establishing "facts" that are just based on logical fallacy ("most / very few fans", a "10,000 fans" survey – have you conducted that, by the way?) and don’t disprove the fact that what you’re stating are your subjective opinions, and calling someone with a different view "blinded" (i.e. a fool) is just stupid. 
And to crown it all, you use My World – i.e. the obvious, unserious outlier – as an argument, which only cements the preposterousness of this little figment of yours. 
Congratulations, you of all the people, who keep telling others how everyone’s opinion is equal, have shot yourself in the foot with this whole nonsense. 

No, it doesn’t have to be nostalgia, personal relationship, emotions, or whatever the hell; some people would just prefer anything from the UYI to anything from CD, and that’s a legitimate stance/taste, whether you like it or not. The point is, neither of us can be the objective judge of something that is purely subjective. There’s no law, no code, general taste, nothing. And condemning someone for a different view is moronic, period. 

Now feel free to only quote a sentence or two taken out of context, split hairs as usual, twist everything around, and write three wordy paragraphs about how you’re right and we’re wrong. 
 

I don't know why I'm even posting this... 
 

[Lelex95]

Has anyone seen this and what do we think of it? 

[SoulMonster]

12 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Once again, through superfluous, verbose paragraphs you’re establishing "facts" that are just based on logical fallacy ("most / very few fans", a "10,000 fans" survey – have you conducted that, by the way?)

What logical fallacy? And no, I haven't conducted a study

12 minutes ago, jamillos said:

and don’t disprove the fact that what you’re stating are your subjective opinions

Of course it is my subjective opinion that most of those who rank all four new singles below every single song off the Illusions are doing it mostly for non-musical reasons. But as always, I have been pretty generous with my time in trying to argue for why my opinion is correct. I look forward to people -- maybe you? -- pointing to the musical denominators that separate Perhaps from, say, Yesterdays or Dust N' Bones or Breakdown or any other song off the Illusions, and make it a worse song than any of these. I would argue, again, that the reason these people would rank it below every other song has more to do with the history being Perhaps, its gestation, than anything remotely about the music. And I would actually say the same about Hard Skool and The General, too. 

 

18 minutes ago, jamillos said:

and calling someone with a different view "blinded" (i.e. a fool) is just stupid. 

I don't simply call them blinded, I go much further and argue for why this "blindness" - which is derived from particular emotional attachment to specific aspects of GN'R - is part of the "genetic makeup" of being diehard fans and how this will unavoidably lead to an inability to judge these songs objectively from a music perspective. I am sorry you find that "stupid" but what can I do?

 

21 minutes ago, jamillos said:

And to crown it all, you use My World – i.e. the obvious, unserious outlier – as an argument, which only cements the preposterousness of this little figment of yours. 

Huh? It is undoubtedly one song on the Illusions and the best song to illustrate the preposterousness of taking the stance, "all songs on the Illusions are better than the new singles". Why on earth should I not just the most obvious example to get my point across? But don't think this means that I think it makes sense from a perspective of music to only rank My World among the new singles. I just used it because it is so obvious. If we were to ask 1,000 non-fans to rank all the songs on the Illusions and the new singles, I think the new singles would be scattered across the entire list and not just above My World. 

 

24 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Congratulations, you of all the people, who keep telling others how everyone’s opinion is equal, have shot yourself in the foot with this whole nonsense. 

Huh? I don't think I have ever said, "everyone's opinion is equal". It is certainly not something I think. In fact, many opinions are absolutely moronic.

 

25 minutes ago, jamillos said:

No, it doesn’t have to be nostalgia, personal relationship, emotions, or whatever the hell; some people would just prefer anything from the UYI to anything from CD, and that’s a legitimate stance/taste, whether you like it or not.

I haven't said it isn't legitimate I am explaining that this preference has little to do with the inherent quality of the songs being discussed and more to do with other stuff

 

27 minutes ago, jamillos said:

I don't know why I'm even posting this... 

I think I know. You felt a need to disagree since you don't like my argument about you not being able to judge the new singles fairly, so against better judgment you posted a lot of redundant and pointless stuff which those who also disagree with my argument - or perhaps more the implications of my argument - will like and hence you will likely inadvertently and kind of sadly feel the need to continue posting similarly pointless posts and hence expose how little you understand in the future under the false belief that you actually made some sound point and weren't just defending your tribe, like a rote of stupidity. 

[jamillos]

19 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What logical fallacy? And no, I haven't conducted a study

Of course it is my subjective opinion that most of those who rank all four new singles below every single song off the Illusions are doing it mostly for non-musical reasons. But as always, I have been pretty generous with my time in trying to argue for why my opinion is correct. I look forward to people -- maybe you? -- pointing to the musical denominators that separate Perhaps from, say, Yesterdays or Dust N' Bones or Breakdown or any other song off the Illusions, and make it a worse song than any of these. I would argue, again, that the reason these people would rank it below every other song has more to do with the history being Perhaps, its gestation, than anything remotely about the music. And I would actually say the same about Hard Skool and The General, too. 

 

I don't simply call them blinded, I go much further and argue for why this "blindness" - which is derived from particular emotional attachment to specific aspects of GN'R - is part of the "genetic makeup" of being diehard fans and how this will unavoidably lead to an inability to judge these songs objectively from a music perspective. I am sorry you find that "stupid" but what can I do?

 

Huh? It is undoubtedly one song on the Illusions and the best song to illustrate the preposterousness of taking the stance, "all songs on the Illusions are better than the new singles". Why on earth should I not just the most obvious example to get my point across? But don't think this means that I think it makes sense from a perspective of music to only rank My World among the new singles. I just used it because it is so obvious. If we were to ask 1,000 non-fans to rank all the songs on the Illusions and the new singles, I think the new singles would be scattered across the entire list and not just above My World. 

 

Huh? I don't think I have ever said, "everyone's opinion is equal". It is certainly not something I think. In fact, many opinions are absolutely moronic.

 

I haven't said it isn't legitimate I am explaining that this preference has little to do with the inherent quality of the songs being discussed and more to do with other stuff

 

I think I know. You felt a need to disagree since you don't like my argument about you not being able to judge the new singles fairly, so against better judgment you posted a lot of redundant and pointless stuff which those who also disagree with my argument - or perhaps more the implications of my argument - will like and hence you will likely inadvertently and kind of sadly feel the need to continue posting similarly pointless posts and hence expose how little you understand in the future under the false belief that you actually made some sound point and weren't just defending your tribe, like a rote of stupidity. 

Thank you for proving my point. You're a lost cause. 

[SoulMonster]

6 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Thank you for proving my point. You're a lost cause. 

I don't think you actually had a succinct point. Did you? Your response is more of a knee-jerk reaction to something that was overwhelming and for which you had no meaningful contribution.

[metallex78]

3 hours ago, Lelex95 said:

Has anyone seen this and what do we think of it? 

Some interesting info there. As always, I’ll take it with a huge grain of salt. Nothing ever goes to plan in GN’R land. 

[SoulMonster]

3 hours ago, Lelex95 said:

Has anyone seen this and what do we think of it? 

Only listened to the first 1/3 because he annoyed me so much. But some things are likely correct and some things are likely not correct. 

[gavgnr]

Wasn’t Bennie and the Jets on some bullshit list proved false years ago? 

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, gavgnr said:

Wasn’t Bennie and the Jets on some bullshit list proved false years ago? 

It was on the setlist for the 2020 shows (along with Hard Skool, Pretty Tied Up and You're Crazy) and then the tour was cancelled, so HS ended up being played (and released) in 2021, Pretty Tied Up made the setlist in 2023 and Bennie and The Jets never showed up again.

But because it was on that setlist, there were some fake new album/EP tracklists that included it.

EDIT: Oh, this guy again (in the video), the one behind the lame The General hoax. I won't even bother watching it.

Edited August 23 by Blackstar

[Blackstar]

I think the main reason for many fans' dislike or ranking the "new" singles (that applies mainly to Perhaps and Hard Skool, and maybe even Monsters) lower than UYI as a whole (and even than CD in the case of some) is the way they were made ("frankensteined"), which, for the most part, comes from the fact that we already knew they were made that way before we listened to the final versions. Also some fans take big issue with the production, mix etc.

I like Perhaps and Hard Skool, but my main issue is that they sound unfinished because of repetitiveness (Perhaps) and "empty" bridge (Hard Skool). If it weren't for that, they had the potential to stand on par with the mid to upper tier songs on the Illusions. I still prefer them, though, even as they are, over at least half of CD. The General also has the problem of repetitiveness, and in addition the main instrumental melody is very average (in my opinion) and its production is influenced by musical styles that I'm not fond of - Axl's vocals/melodies and Slash's guitar work are good, though. Monsters, I think, is the most "finished" and interesting of the songs.

 

Edited August 23 by Blackstar

[Free Bird]

5 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

My argument is that when it comes to ranking the new singles below everything on the Illusions, that opinion/taste preference has likely less to do with the objective quality of the songs and more to do with other things. There are simply so few discernable musical denominators between these songs to warrant this ranking that it makes more sense to think that what we are dealing with here are fans who are emotionally attached to certain songs beyond the music itself. Which is what fans are, I suppose. Very few of us are fans of Guns N' Roses as such. We are fans of the specific GN'R that gave us Appetite, or the GN'R that gave us the Illusions, or the GN'R that gave us Chinese. Very few are fans of the entirety of it (some are and that is really cool).

Thanks for making this clear. Next time Axl feels like he’s ready to release something I’ll contact you to ask for permission if it’s ok to prefer the previous releases.

5 hours ago, jamillos said:

Once again, through superfluous, verbose paragraphs you’re establishing "facts" that are just based on logical fallacy ("most / very few fans", a "10,000 fans" survey – have you conducted that, by the way?) and don’t disprove the fact that what you’re stating are your subjective opinions, and calling someone with a different view "blinded" (i.e. a fool) is just stupid. 
And to crown it all, you use My World – i.e. the obvious, unserious outlier – as an argument, which only cements the preposterousness of this little figment of yours. 
Congratulations, you of all the people, who keep telling others how everyone’s opinion is equal, have shot yourself in the foot with this whole nonsense. 

No, it doesn’t have to be nostalgia, personal relationship, emotions, or whatever the hell; some people would just prefer anything from the UYI to anything from CD, and that’s a legitimate stance/taste, whether you like it or not. The point is, neither of us can be the objective judge of something that is purely subjective. There’s no law, no code, general taste, nothing. And condemning someone for a different view is moronic, period. 

Now feel free to only quote a sentence or two taken out of context, split hairs as usual, twist everything around, and write three wordy paragraphs about how you’re right and we’re wrong. 
 

I don't know why I'm even posting this... 
 

Thanks, I couldn’t have said it better. And I really tried.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Free Bird said:

Thanks for making this clear. Next time Axl feels like he’s ready to release something I’ll contact you to ask for permission if it’s ok to prefer the previous releases.

What? I haven't insinuated that it is wrong to prefer the previous releases  I have explained why people prefer the previous releases. 

[Free Bird]

52 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What? I haven't insinuated that it is wrong to prefer the previous releases  I have explained why people prefer the previous releases. 

You’re trying to explain something you have no idea about. Acting like you know everything without expecting other people opinions makes you look like a close minded fool.

[Sweersa]

Several months ago Melissa posted on FB asking fans what Guns song would they have liked to be a single that wasn't. I commented "Zodiac" Then she "hearted" the comment today, months later.

So, Zodiac 13 as the next single, confirmed?  

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

You’re trying to explain something you have no idea about. Acting like you know everything without expecting other people opinions makes you look like a close minded fool.

If I am wrong in suggesting that people who rank ever new single below every song on the Illusions do this mostly for other reasons than a fair and objective assessment of the new singles' quality, then you are of course entirely free to argue against me. Instead you just try to insult me  

And what was that about, "without expecting other people opinions"? What does that even mean? If you are trying to say I don't expect people to disagree with me, you are very much wrong. Of course I expect people to have different opinions than me. They might even be correct and I might be wrong. But you are not exactly making a good case for proving the latter. 

[DTV88]

9 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

And that's a subjective opinion as a blinded GN'R fan. But if we were to have 10,000 non-fans listens to the songs off Illusions and the four new singles, in a random order, them wouldn't end up putting the four new singles at the bottom (I a sure). So why is that? What is it with some diehard GN'R fans that make them rank the songs this way? I would say it is less about the actual quality of the songs and more about emotional attachment, about adherence to a time and a place in their lives, about being against the "nu guns" era which spills over on good songs, etc etc. Again, only blinded GN'R fans would rank the songs these way. 

You can repeat yourself with the false argument of a blinded GnR fan all you want but I disagree. The CD leftovers, songs that are anywhere from 20-25 years old (I’m sure you’d love to argue the years there, but feel free to keep that pedantic shit to yourself) are mostly crap. Even Back Off Bitch is better than anything NITL has officially released IMO. Your opinions are just that: opinions. Not fact. 

[Free Bird]

18 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

If I am wrong in suggesting that people who rank ever new single below every song on the Illusions do this mostly for other reasons than a fair and objective assessment of the new singles' quality, then you are of course entirely free to argue against me. Instead you just try to insult me  

And what was that about, "without expecting other people opinions"? What does that even mean? If you are trying to say I don't expect people to disagree with me, you are very much wrong. Of course I expect people to have different opinions than me. They might even be correct and I might be wrong. But you are not exactly making a good case for proving the latter. 

This should be “Accepting”

when arguing against you, you write a weird essay, ignoring important parts of the argumentation. We’re moving in circles. 

 

[SoulMonster]

41 minutes ago, DTV88 said:

You can repeat yourself with the false argument of a blinded GnR fan all you want but I disagree. The CD leftovers, songs that are anywhere from 20-25 years old (I’m sure you’d love to argue the years there, but feel free to keep that pedantic shit to yourself) are mostly crap. Even Back Off Bitch is better than anything NITL has officially released IMO. Your opinions are just that: opinions. Not fact. 

I don't think you have read my posts. This is not me arguing that some songs are better than others, this is me explaining why some fans prefer every song off the Illusions to every one of the new singles. Want to try again?

[SoulMonster]

33 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

This should be “Accepting”

when arguing against you, you write a weird essay, ignoring important parts of the argumentation. We’re moving in circles. 

Of course I accept your opinion that you prefer each song off the Illusions over each of the new singles based on musical merit and merit alone. But I also have to say that I think you are wrong, blatantly and obviously wrong. But I have no issues with this disagreement, it just provides me with a possibility to refine and repeat my argument. It is those who refuse to argue their position and turn to ad hominems who aren't accepting my opinion. 

Edited August 23 by SoulMonster

[DTV88]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think you have read my posts. This is not me arguing that some songs are better than others, this is me explaining why some fans prefer every song off the Illusions to every one of the new singles. Want to try again?

You must be a blast at parties! You don’t listen to what anyone who disagrees says, and you keep repeating yourself with false arguments. 

 

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I think the main reason for many fans' dislike or ranking the "new" singles (that applies mainly to Perhaps and Hard Skool, and maybe even Monsters) lower than UYI as a whole (and even than CD in the case of some) is the way they were made ("frankensteined"), which, for the most part, comes from the fact that we already knew they were made that way before we listened to the final versions. Also some fans take big issue with the production, mix etc.

I like Perhaps and Hard Skool, but my main issue is that they sound unfinished because of repetitiveness (Perhaps) and "empty" bridge (Hard Skool). If it weren't for that, they had the potential to stand on par with the mid to upper tier songs on the Illusions. I still prefer them, though, even as they are, over at least half of CD. The General also has the problem of repetitiveness, and in addition the main instrumental melody is very average (in my opinion) and its production is influenced by musical styles that I'm not fond of - Axl's vocals/melodies and Slash's guitar work are good, though. Monsters, I think, is the most "finished" and interesting of the songs.

 

Very well said. 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, DTV88 said:

You must be a blast at parties! You don’t listen to what anyone who disagrees says, and you keep repeating yourself with false arguments. 

I read your post and pointed out you couldn't have read mine. What's the "false argument"? 

[Dani_1455]

1 hour ago, Sweersa said:

Several months ago Melissa posted on FB asking fans what Guns song would they have liked to be a single that wasn't. I commented "Zodiac" Then she "hearted" the comment today, months later.

So, Zodiac 13 as the next single, confirmed?  

That maybe seems no interesting but just maybe is something to look forward to, she has not been involved on the CD era, the fact that she knows this titles maybe means something or maybe it is nothing