The "New Album" Thread. Thanks to the long ass thread, I’m going home!

[JimiRose]

14 hours ago, ShadowOfTheWave said:

Axl admitted he hoarded Don't Cry because he knew it had potential to be a hit and didn't want to put them all on the first album. This may have been the case with Hard Skool as well. As for November Rain, he obviously didn't feel it was completed until 1990-1991, and worked on it continuously. This is a different case than with songs like Absurd/Perhaps/The General, where he didn't even bother to write a second verse. They don't seem like rejects as much as unfinished.

I really like perhaps, and the general, except for the fact they're lazy choices lyrically. to repeat those verses on all 3 of the above is lazy. one of them, especially if it's poignant like in the general, fine, no issue. but perhaps doesn't need to be twice. 

[Voodoochild]

19 hours ago, ZoSoRose said:

For the record, I say rejects as someone who likes Hard Skool, Perhaps, and Monsters quite a bit. However, they didn't make the album, and they were long- lost and forgotten to time. I don't care what Axl's intention was with the release plan. Whatever it was, it changed, and the album released as a single CD/ double- LP of 14- songs. Therefore, I don't see why it is bad calling these CD- rejects. They literally are. 

That's literally just your opinion - you say "I don't care" or "I don't see why". And it is bad because it's obviously putting them as lesser songs. 

I know you like some of it, but it seems to me that it's kind of a cheap shot. Just because those songs were not released in an album (yet?), it doesn't mean that Axl or the band rejected them at any point. IMO, if they ended up released, it's literally because they were not rejects. The same goes for the old tracks like Don't Cry, Perfect Crime, Back of Bitch..

[Sweersa]

11 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

That's literally just your opinion - you say "I don't care" or "I don't see why". And it is bad because it's obviously putting them as lesser songs. 

I know you like some of it, but it seems to me that it's kind of a cheap shot. Just because those songs were not released in an album (yet?), it doesn't mean that Axl or the band rejected them at any point. IMO, if they ended up released, it's literally because they were not rejects. The same goes for the old tracks like Don't Cry, Perfect Crime, Back of Bitch..

I feel this conversation would be going differently if people really knew what all Guns had in the vault. For all we know (and I strongly believe) they have several more complete songs of varying complexity (with vocals) we have yet to hear, including Berlin, Seven, Tonto, Cuban Skies, Monstrocity, and I'd imagine Zodiac 13 and Quick Song were finished years ago as well. (Assuming neither exist as the aforementioned titles). They likely have completed songs we have never heard of by name as well. Call it a "Scraped" situation where that song just appeared on the album, where as we were aware of all of the other songs on the 2008 album well prior to release, and a majority of them we actually heard mixes of prior. It's likely they have songs (with vocals) in varying stages of "completion" that will not be released in any form as well, but like anything, that can change. 

[colonizedmind]

18 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

I feel this conversation would be going differently if people really knew what all Guns had in the vault. For all we know (and I strongly believe) they have several more complete songs of varying complexity (with vocals) we have yet to hear, including Berlin, Seven, Tonto, Cuban Skies, Monstrocity, and I'd imagine Zodiac 13 and Quick Song were finished years ago as well. (Assuming neither exist as the aforementioned titles). They likely have completed songs we have never heard of by name as well. Call it a "Scraped" situation where that song just appeared on the album, where as we were aware of all of the other songs on the 2008 album well prior to release, and a majority of them we actually heard mixes of prior. It's likely they have songs (with vocals) in varying stages of "completion" that will not be released in any form as well, but like anything, that can change. 

Yes, I'd agree this is probably pretty accurate....

[DeNfr]

18 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

I'm sorry, but this is a wild theory. CD was Axl's masterpiece that would prove all the detractors wrong. It was his big statement against his ex-girls, ex-bandmates, ex-managers, the media, etc. (and his only statement because he wasn't doing interviews, writing books or even going out in public much). The time and cost are both evidence of it being a big deal to him, and a reason why it needed to be the best he could do. Not to mention, his ego would not allow his first album since the breakup to be sub-par. And if it took that long to release, he knew full well it was going to be ages before another album came out.

Now, with that said, music is subjective and lots of people will prefer songs that didn't make the cut. It's like the old "trim down UYI" discussion; nobody can ever agree on which songs get cut, and inevitably people will argue that some of the best songs were left off.

It's also the case that decisions are made for other reasons than quality. He may have thought Monsters was a top tier song, but felt the album was already too heavy with epics and needed shorter rockers like IRS to balance it out. Somebody (Fortus?) said that CD was basically a greatest hits of what they wrote during those years. It could have been more industrial or more ballad heavy, but they wanted balance.

 

maybe, I dont like mild theories, they're not interesting or fun to discuss.

I'm not sure what Axl's intentions were with this album, but even if the ones you're attributing to him were true at the time of its creation, there's no guarantee they didn't change along the way, given the public's expectations and media critiques throughout the years.

I'm convinced that he wanted to make the best album he could at that time, but that doesn't mean he didn't intentionally set aside tracks that seemed to him to be more suited to a 'Guns with Slash,' musically, and potentially emotionally as well, for a possible reunion.

All of this might not have been so deliberate and conscious either; choices can be made relatively unconsciously. And of course, there’s the idea of having a certain cohesion in mind for the tracklist, but precisely on that point, I think Chinese Democracy lacked coherence.

[evilfacelessturtle]

8 hours ago, DeNfr said:

 

maybe, I dont like mild theories, they're not interesting or fun to discuss.

I'm not sure what Axl's intentions were with this album, but even if the ones you're attributing to him were true at the time of its creation, there's no guarantee they didn't change along the way, given the public's expectations and media critiques throughout the years.

I'm convinced that he wanted to make the best album he could at that time, but that doesn't mean he didn't intentionally set aside tracks that seemed to him to be more suited to a 'Guns with Slash,' musically, and potentially emotionally as well, for a possible reunion.

All of this might not have been so deliberate and conscious either; choices can be made relatively unconsciously. And of course, there’s the idea of having a certain cohesion in mind for the tracklist, but precisely on that point, I think Chinese Democracy lacked coherence.

The question is where do you draw the line between cohesion and variety? I like that UYI and CD have variety. Even AFD has some. One could argue that Think About You is not cohesive on there, with acoustic guitars and whatnot. Or Sweet Child, an uptempo ballad.

I can't imagine him holding songs for Slash, especially after Slash went and recorded songs that he wanted for Guns (Fall To Pieces, Back and Forth Again). I don't think he ever entertained a reunion until maybe around 2012 when he felt like he'd made his point with CD.

[SoulMonster]

"nu GNR" was never a one-album project. Axl would variously talk about wanting to release two or three albums based on the music they worked on, never just one. And the number of songs that were not rejected but kept and labored over, seems to have been around 35. In that sense it could have hurt when media talked about the "most expensive album never made" prior to CD's release, because they were simultaneously working on so many tracks intended for more than just a single album. [Still, only one album has so far been released, so one cannot argue that the headline was incorrect - Axl still has to prove them wrong.}

As for which songs to go on which album, that changed a bit. At one point Axl talked about his visions for the albums, with the second album being less like "oldGN'R" than the first, thus easing the fans into the new GN'R music and allowing the band to gradually change their style, or incorporate more varied music. This fits well with the song Chinese Democracy, as a fairly straight up rocker, giving name to the first album, and P.R.L., which is much more experimental and at least in the Locker leak version more industrial/symphonic, giving the name to the second. Still, new songs were written and replaced some that were intended for the first album. Some songs that had been worked on since the very first years were to go on the second. Sebastian Bach would mention how Axl had intended at least one song to only come out on the third album.

Axl has a pretty old-school view on albums and what they mean as a product, all the way from the songs themselves, the order, the artwork, the liner notes, etc. I think everyone who grew up with vinyl albums would to some extent share this view. An album meant something, it was a whole package, it wasn't just the songs. I am sure Axl deliberated over the order of the songs, how they should follow each other, trying to make it somewhat cohesive and make sense if people were to listen to the whole thing in order.

My point is, the songs not included on CD but still labored over for years, weren't necessarily rejected due to not being good enough. I am sure Axl thought some were fillers and not important to be included, but he had some plan on how to release the material he had worked on that meant that some songs were not to go on the first album without them simply not being good enough. There is no indication that Axl tried to top the first album with all the best songs. Similarly, to when AFD was released, November Rain wasn't included because it wasn't deemed good enough, but because it wasn't finished and/or they didn't want another ballad on the album: Don't Cry wasn't included because it wasn't deemed good enough, but because they didn't want another ballad on the album; You Could Be Mine wasn't included because it wasn't deemed good enough, but because it wasn't finished; Bad Obsession wasn't included because it wasn't deemed good enough, but likely because it didn't fit so well, etc etc. 

The songs left over after CD weren't necessarily rejected because they simply wasn't good enough, but because only so many songs could fit on one album, because an album needs a mix of songs, because some of the greatest songs should be spread out, and because the albums were to work as a cohesive whole. If people happen to think all the four new singles are worse than all the songs on CD, then they are unlucky, but hopefully and likely some of the music that is to come will be more to their liking. Personally, I think The General, Perhaps and Hard Skool could easily have replaced songs on CD and made it a better album. But all this is just personal preferences. I could end up disliking the next single whereas others could love it. There is no doubt Axl never rejected them but always wanted them to come out, even now when there is so much pressure on him abandoning them and instead making new music with Slash and Duff.

[Lethalis]

4 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

"nu GNR" was never a one-album project. Axl would variously talk about wanting to release two or three albums based on the music they worked on, never just one. And the number of songs that were not rejected but kept and labored over, seems to have been around 35. In that sense it could have hurt when media talked about the "most expensive album never made" prior to CD's release, because they were simultaneously working on so many tracks intended for more than just a single album. [Still, only one album has so far been released, so one cannot argue that the headline was incorrect - Axl still has to prove them wrong.}

As for which songs to go on which album, that changed a bit. At one point Axl talked about his visions for the albums, with the second album being less like "oldGN'R" than the first, thus easing the fans into the new GN'R music and allowing the band to gradually change their style, or incorporate more varied music. This fits well with the song Chinese Democracy, as a fairly straight up rocker, giving name to the first album, and P.R.L., which is much more experimental and at least in the Locker leak version more industrial/symphonic, giving the name to the second. Still, new songs were written and replaced some that were intended for the first album. Some songs that had been worked on since the very first years were to go on the second. Sebastian Bach would mention how Axl had intended at least one song to only come out on the third album.

Axl has a pretty old-school view on albums and what they mean as a product, all the way from the songs themselves, the order, the artwork, the liner notes, etc. I think everyone who grew up with vinyl albums would to some extent share this view. An album meant something, it was a whole package, it wasn't just the songs. I am sure Axl deliberated over the order of the songs, how they should follow each other, trying to make it somewhat cohesive and make sense if people were to listen to the whole thing in order.

My point is, the songs not included on CD but still labored over for years, weren't necessarily rejected due to not being good enough. I am sure Axl thought some were fillers and not important to be included, but he had some plan on how to release the material he had worked on that meant that some songs were not to go on the first album without them simply not being good enough. There is no indication that Axl tried to top the first album with all the best songs. Similarly, to when AFD was released, November Rain wasn't included because it wasn't deemed good enough, but because it wasn't finished and/or they didn't want another ballad on the album: Don't Cry wasn't included because it wasn't deemed good enough, but because they didn't want another ballad on the album; You Could Be Mine wasn't included because it wasn't deemed good enough, but because it wasn't finished; Bad Obsession wasn't included because it wasn't deemed good enough, but likely because it didn't fit so well, etc etc. 

The songs left over after CD weren't necessarily rejected because they simply wasn't good enough, but because only so many songs could fit on one album, because an album needs a mix of songs, because some of the greatest songs should be spread out, and because the albums were to work as a cohesive whole. If people happen to think all the four new singles are worse than all the songs on CD, then they are unlucky, but hopefully and likely some of the music that is to come will be more to their liking. Personally, I think The General, Perhaps and Hard Skool could easily have replaced songs on CD and made it a better album. But all this is just personal preferences. I could end up disliking the next single whereas others could love it. There is no doubt Axl never rejected them but always wanted them to come out, even now when there is so much pressure on him abandoning them and instead making new music with Slash and Duff.

I'm afraid that's a very optimistic view.

If Axl would be sitting on some great music it would have been released by now. And even if some of what you think is true, the return of Duff and Slash has probably killed the vision for album 2 and 3. So much time has passed, it's insane. Even if Axl went through a phase of trying to create alternative industrial music, that phase has probably passed by now. And then what? Might as well throw it away.

With Slash in the band, the sound and feel of everything changes. He's a very bluesy player... sure he tries to play fast lately, but that's not where his strength is.

And a lot of things point to album 2 and 3 mostly being instrumentals. Nobody knows how many songs are left with vocals on it, but it's probably not that many.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I don't believe much if anything is coming anytime soon.

 

[SoulMonster]

46 minutes ago, Lethalis said:

I'm afraid that's a very optimistic view.

If Axl would be sitting on some great music it would have been released by now. And even if some of what you think is true, the return of Duff and Slash has probably killed the vision for album 2 and 3. So much time has passed, it's insane. Even if Axl went through a phase of trying to create alternative industrial music, that phase has probably passed by now. And then what? Might as well throw it away.

With Slash in the band, the sound and feel of everything changes. He's a very bluesy player... sure he tries to play fast lately, but that's not where his strength is.

And a lot of things point to album 2 and 3 mostly being instrumentals. Nobody knows how many songs are left with vocals on it, but it's probably not that many.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I don't believe much if anything is coming anytime soon.

 

Yes, I believe Slash and Duff returning to the band made an album of CD era material less likely, which is partly why I never wanted such a "reunion". That being said, Axl had many opportunities to release music prior to 2016. 7-8 years passed since CD, I cannot blame Slash and Duff for Axl's failure to deliver. And ironically, only after they rejoined the band did the singles start to come out, so maybe they managed to get Axl to release the music.

Anyway, there is no doubt that Axl is sitting on music that I subjectively believe is great. He sat on finished versions of Hard Skool and Perhaps for at least 23 years, and he sat on The General and Monsters for close to that. You might not consider these songs great, I consider them just as good, or better, than a lot on CD. So again, there is no doubt to me that Axl can sit on great songs for decades. I can't explain why, but it is obvious he does. And then we likely have finished versions of Quick Song and State of Grace, too. So yeah...

As for when the next singles are coming. I don't know. Maybe no one knows, Axl included. But I am sure we will get more.

[gavgnr]

51 minutes ago, Lethalis said:

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I don't believe much if anything is coming anytime soon.

We might get the odd single every touring cycle. 
 

I guess the could be an album once the band has no further interest in touring. 

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Yes, I believe Slash and Duff returning to the band made an album of CD era material less likely, which is partly why I never wanted such a "reunion".

Me too

[bumcheecksmcghee]

15 minutes ago, gavgnr said:

We might get the odd single every touring cycle. 
 

I guess the could be an album once the band has no further interest in touring. 

Me too

Same. Bring back the nu guns 🔥🙌

[JimiRose]

Now that SMKC are going back in the studio in november for a 2025 release that will mean no GnR album in 2025. They couldn't possibly have slash promoting his own stuff and a GnR album, great excuse for Axl. 

[DeNfr]

11 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

The question is where do you draw the line between cohesion and variety? I like that UYI and CD have variety. Even AFD has some. One could argue that Think About You is not cohesive on there, with acoustic guitars and whatnot. Or Sweet Child, an uptempo ballad.

I can't imagine him holding songs for Slash, especially after Slash went and recorded songs that he wanted for Guns (Fall To Pieces, Back and Forth Again). I don't think he ever entertained a reunion until maybe around 2012 when he felt like he'd made his point with CD.

the difference between UYI and CD is the length and the number of songs. The diversity of UYI is spread across two double albums, whereas the diversity of CD is compressed into 14 tracks, making it much more noticeable and intense. what appears as a nice diversity of musical genres on UYI turns out to be a lack of cohesion on CD.

knowing that CD was released in 2008, and considering Axl's sense of time, does 2012 seem so far away to you? I mean, would it be so crazy to imagine that 4 years after the release of CD, Axl thought to himself, well, I'll wait a bit longer, maybe we can talk again, and I'm glad I kept these tracks just in case?

[Blackstar]

52 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

Now that SMKC are going back in the studio in november for a 2025 release that will mean no GnR album in 2025. They couldn't possibly have slash promoting his own stuff and a GnR album, great excuse for Axl. 

I doubt new SMKC will be released in 2025 (or at least not until late 2025), because Slash wants to be able to tour it upon release. That's what he said back in May and June:

During an appearance on the May 30 episode of SiriusXM's "Trunk Nation With Eddie Trunk", Slash confirmed that he is planning to enter the studio with his long-running band Slash Featuring Myles Kennedy & The Conspirators later in the year. "We're gonna go record another record after this ['S.E.R.P.E.N.T.' festival] tour is over and then sit on it and wait for the right window to be able to release it so we have a clear window to do a domestic and international tour for 10 months." Slash added later during the chat: "Conspirators will go in the studio in the fall. And then next year is gonna be back with Guns. And then we're gonna figure out exactly when to release the Conspirators record. 'Cause you've got Alter Bridge, you've got all these other things going on,"

https://www.a-4-d.com/t8529-2024-05-30-siriusxm-s-trunk-nation-interview-with-slash

Near the end of his time on Loudwire Nights, Slash gave fans a brief update on what's on the horizon for him past the release of Orgy of the Damned and his solo tour this summer in support of that album. "I'm going into the studio with the Conspirators, getting a new record done and then after that, 2025 is all about Guns N' Roses," he said. "We're trying to get some things going with that. I think there's a small tour in the summertime next year. I heard a rumor about that anyway, so that's going to be focused on that. But prior to that, it's the S.E.R.P.E.N.T. tour, and then the Conspirators."

https://www.a-4-d.com/t8579-2024-06-17-loudwire-nights-interview-slash-celebrates-new-solo-album-says-2025-is-all-about-guns-n-roses

Edited 12 hours ago by Blackstar

[Zeppelin]

3 hours ago, JimiRose said:

Now that SMKC are going back in the studio in november for a 2025 release that will mean no GnR album in 2025. They couldn't possibly have slash promoting his own stuff and a GnR album, great excuse for Axl. 

"Hey Slash! It's Myles! I know Axl never wants to work with you to try to create some memorable GNR tunes, so why don't you come over? I have 10-11 generic rock songs for us to shove out again."

[colonizedmind]

7 hours ago, JimiRose said:

Now that SMKC are going back in the studio in november for a 2025 release that will mean no GnR album in 2025. They couldn't possibly have slash promoting his own stuff and a GnR album, great excuse for Axl. 

When and if a GNR release happens it will be because Axl suddenly says right LET'S F'N GO! When/If that dream occurs, everything else will stop, including any side project conspirator album! ...And we know that's how it'll occur, it's not gonna be planned or worked up to, Axl will simply (if he does)  call Slash and tell him he's game to get into a studio tomorrow ...

Slash knows this, hence why he will record a 5th record with those boys and then sit on it, as he Isn't in control of what GNR will or won't do next....

So I wouldn't read anything too much into it, other than, at this moment as I type, nothing is set...but that could change later today, tomorrow, early next year or never...

And, Slash and Duff are very keen to mark themselves onto another Guns LP....I'm sure they'll have folders of riffs and ideas saved ready for that moment by this point...

There is only one piece of the puzzle missing and I just hope he finds it sooner rather than later (our joke I know but it's really getting closer to closing time)

Edited 5 hours ago by colonizedmind

[Free Bird]

3 hours ago, Zeppelin said:

"Hey Slash! It's Myles! I know Axl never wants to work with you to try to create some memorable GNR tunes, so why don't you come over? I have 10-11 generic rock songs for us to shove out again."

Is it better to keep hoarding your music forever? Without Slash’s work ethic we wouldn’t have many great songs now.

[rocknroll41]

1 hour ago, Free Bird said:

Is it better to keep hoarding your music forever? Without Slash’s work ethic we wouldn’t have many great songs now.

Yeah between Snakepit, VR, SMKC, and his solo albums, slash has kept the GnR “spirit” alive, imo. I used to not think this way, but now I do.

[evilfacelessturtle]

11 hours ago, DeNfr said:

the difference between UYI and CD is the length and the number of songs. The diversity of UYI is spread across two double albums, whereas the diversity of CD is compressed into 14 tracks, making it much more noticeable and intense. what appears as a nice diversity of musical genres on UYI turns out to be a lack of cohesion on CD.

knowing that CD was released in 2008, and considering Axl's sense of time, does 2012 seem so far away to you? I mean, would it be so crazy to imagine that 4 years after the release of CD, Axl thought to himself, well, I'll wait a bit longer, maybe we can talk again, and I'm glad I kept these tracks just in case?

Agree to disagree, because length doesn't matter when very different songs end up side by side regardless. UYI has Don't Cry right next to Perfect Crime. Estranged next to YCBM. What would you say is the difference between lack of cohesion and diversity?

I think IRS and TIL are both perfect Slash tracks. One rocker and one ballad. I think Finck's solo on TIL was heavily inspired by NR and Estranged.

CD having been released and toured (and by 2012 the tour was winding down) is a huge turning point for Axl. It's not as long as the lead up to CD, but it's not about the passage of time, it's about what has happened in that time. I could believe that songs written after CD came out may have been held for Slash, but not those written prior. In retrospect, it's easy to treat the reunion as an inevitability, but even in 2009 or so, Axl was still calling Slash "a cancer".

I think Axl's sense of time is actually a good point, because to him, Slash didn't leave that long ago. If we were to map that onto a typical timeframe, we're talking about if Slash were saving songs for Axl as early as 1999 while writing Ain't Life Grand. It was literally the first album he wrote since the breakup. It's like saving something for an ex after you just started dating a new girl.