Confirmation from Simpsons writer that Duff Beer is not based on Duff McKagan

[Blackstar]

3 hours ago, gunsnchalupas said:

 

I don't get how it is insulting. 

Duff wasn't really an A-list celebrity. If he said he didn't know who Axl and Slash were in the late 80s, I would raise an eyebrow. Is he supposed to pretend to know who Duff is? 

Additionally, put yourself in the writer's shoes. Duff's claim, if untrue, is reckless and damaging to their reputation. Considering the nature of Duff's state of being at that time, and the fact that Duff previously was slang for butt (sitting on your duff), etc - which is more likely: 

-The Simpsns show always portrayed the drunks (Barney, etc) as lazy losers who sat on their fat asses. They named the beer appropriately as part of the gag. Duff misremembered something that happened 30 years ago when the band was deep in drug and alcohol use.

-The Simpsons show decided to name a beer after the least or second least known member of a popular rock group, even know it made no sense with how it was prevented in the show. 

I would be shocked if it was named after Duff. It makes no sense at all. It's about as sensible as a theory that Kiss From A Rose by Seal is about Axl because the word Rose is the same as Axl's last name. 

Duff looks like an idiot here. 

A comment like "hey, we didn't even know who this guy was" is meant to be insulting to someone especially when refuting a claim, regardless of whether it's true or not.

Anyway, I don't think the beer was named after Duff, but I don't think Duff is lying either. How could that be? The explanation could be very simple:

At the time, GN'R were at the peak of their popularity and Duff was - coincidentally - known as "the king of beers". So maybe the GN'R camp (say, management) just made the assumption it was related and told Duff "Hey, that cartoon named their beer after you". And then that morphed into Duff's mind into the story where someone from the show contacted GN'R management asking for permission. This kind of misremembering/"altered memory" is not uncommon at all - it happens all the time even to people who are sober, let alone to someone who was not at the time.

[lunastar]

38 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Комментарий типа «эй, мы даже не знали, кто этот парень» предназначен для того, чтобы кого-то оскорбить, особенно при опровержении утверждения, независимо от того, правда оно или нет.

В любом случае, я не думаю, что пиво было названо в честь Даффа, но и не думаю, что Дафф лжет. Как такое могло быть? Объяснение может быть очень простым:

В то время GN'R были на пике своей популярности, а Дафф, по совпадению, был известен как «король пива». Так что, возможно, лагерь GN'R (скажем, руководство) просто предположил, что это связано, и сказал Даффу: «Эй, в этом мультфильме их пиво названо в честь тебя». А затем в сознании Даффа это трансформировалось в историю, в которой кто-то из шоу связался с руководством GN'R и попросил разрешения. Такого рода искажения/"изменённые воспоминания" вовсе не редкость - они случаются постоянно даже с трезвыми людьми, не говоря уже о тех, кто не был в то время трезвым.

This is the first time I've heard that Duff is the king of beer. Was there already YouTube, messengers, social networks at that time? Did everyone know in those days that he was the king of beer? As for Duff, Dave ambruzzesse also talked about it (an interview in another thread). Dave said (to paraphrase) that Duff was worried about being little visible in the band. The management just fined Duff, amused his ego. Duff may be a nice guy, but he definitely has an inflated ego like Axl/Slash, within the framework of his image. And it feels like he's ready to use a sweet little lie just to be noticeable. He also flew on the same plane as Kurt Cobain.

[Blackstar]

9 minutes ago, lunastar said:

This is the first time I've heard that Duff is the king of beer. Was there already YouTube, messengers, social networks at that time? Did everyone know in those days that he was the king of beer? As for Duff, Dave ambruzzesse also talked about it (an interview in another thread). Dave said (to paraphrase) that Duff was worried about being little visible in the band. The management just fined Duff, amused his ego. Duff may be a nice guy, but he definitely has an inflated ego like Axl/Slash, within the framework of his image. And it feels like he's ready to use a sweet little lie just to be noticeable. He also flew on the same plane as Kurt Cobain.

Axl called Duff "the king of beers" on stage all the time. It's well documented.

Abbruzzese hasn't said anything like that about Duff. He has only claimed that Axl wanted to put him (Abbruzzese) in charge in the studio at the time, and he assumed that Duff (who was still in GN'R then) wouldn't have liked that.

Edited June 20 by Blackstar

[Lio]

19 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Axl called Duff "the king of beers" on stage all the time. It's well documented.

Abbruzzese hasn't said anything like that about Duff. He has only claimed that Axl wanted to put him (Abbruzzese) in charge in the studio at the time, and he assumed that Duff (who was still in GN'R then) wouldn't have liked that.

Yeah, there was no YouTube, but lots of us had bootleg cd's or cassettes where he was introduced like that. I for sure knew he was the King of Beers before YouTube 

I find it hard to believe that Duff would insist on this story when obviously he has nothing to win by contradicting the writer if he isn't convinced it's true. It makes me think @Free Bird may be right in thinking someone else called GNR management or Duff to ask if it was okay. I don't know anything about legal stuff, but I would assume there is some legal department involved that would look into all that stuff to see there won't be anyone suing or whatever, and maybe the writer doesn't necessarily knew of it of remembers it. So for now I'm going with Duff beer wasn't called after Duff, but someone reached out to management to ask about it anyway, so Duff interpreted it as it being named after him.

[Blackstar]

5 minutes ago, Lio said:

Yeah, there was no YouTube, but lots of us had bootleg cd's or cassettes where he was introduced like that. I for sure knew he was the King of Beers before YouTube 

I find it hard to believe that Duff would insist on this story when obviously he has nothing to win by contradicting the writer if he isn't convinced it's true. It makes me think @Free Bird may be right in thinking someone else called GNR management or Duff to ask if it was okay. I don't know anything about legal stuff, but I would assume there is some legal department involved that would look into all that stuff to see there won't be anyone suing or whatever, and maybe the writer doesn't necessarily knew of it of remembers it. So for now I'm going with Duff beer wasn't called after Duff, but someone reached out to management to ask about it anyway, so Duff interpreted it as it being named after him.

Also everyone who had MTV in 1989 knew Duff as "the king of beers" because the Ritz show was re-broadcast quite often then.

[lunastar]

40 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Эксл все время называл Даффа «королем пива» на сцене. Это хорошо документировано.

Аббруззезе не говорил ничего подобного о Даффе. Он только утверждал, что Эксл хотел поручить ему (Аббруззезу) руководить студией в то время, и предполагал, что Даффу (который тогда еще был в GN'R) это бы не понравилось.

It seems that this was where Dave talked about the marketing origin of the group, I can't find the link

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, lunastar said:

It seems that this was where Dave talked about the marketing origin of the group, I can't find the link

This is the interview:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t8480-2020-12-09-2020-d-podcast-interview-with-david-abbruzzese

Again, what Abbruzzese said about Duff is different from what you said.

Moreover, Abbruzzese obviously talks about things he doesn't have firsthand knowledge of, so he really doesn't know what he's talking about. For example, in this interview he says that Duff had "sold his interest in GN'R" at the time, but we know for a fact (from legal documents) that Duff never sold or gave up his share in the GN'R partnership. What he says about the origins of GN'R is another example.

[SoulMonster]

36 minutes ago, Lio said:

I find it hard to believe that Duff would insist on this story when obviously he has nothing to win by contradicting the writer if he isn't convinced it's true. 

Oh, absolutely. He clearly thinks he is right. 

[DeNfr]

it's the stubbornness of Punk 

[MaskingApathy]

8 hours ago, Free Bird said:

Misremembering being called and asked for permission? I personally don’t think so.  Misremembering who called for asking maybe. Maybe it wasn’t the writer directly who called Duff. Maybe it was some kind of management or employee and the writer is misremembering the situation. Maybe the writer wanted to use the name Duff for the reasons he is telling and somebody new that could force some legal issues, so they asked Duff if it’s ok using the name. Probably Duff just misunderstood the matter. The writer wanted to name the beer Duff because of loosers sitting on their asses. Somebody responsible for legal issues asked Duff for permission to use the name and Duff thought they’re gonna use it because he’s the king of beers. Nobody’s lying. Case closed.

The more I think about it the more I this this is what happened. Makes the most sense.

[Tom2112]

On 4/15/2023 at 1:14 AM, Billy Cundy said:

There’s been some lively and spirited debate on the ‘Complaints, Complaint, Complaints’ thread as to whether or not Duff beer, which made its debut on Episode #1 of the Simpsons in 1989, was named after Mr. McKagan. As we are all well aware, Duff claimed this was the case in his autobiography in 2011.

I’ve always believed this to be a ludicrous notion, as I can’t even begin to imagine  why some of the finest comedy writers and satirists of the 20th century would look to the bass player of an (at that time) popular, but still up and coming rock band for inspiration. Especially within a show satirising representations of small town American families on TV. 
 

Those with more faith in Duff’s recollections have pointed out that it may be in the Simpsons’ writers best interest to avoid admitting that Duff beer was inspired by the musician as it would leave them open to potential litigation.. a fair argument, however the fact that Mike Reiss (the showrunner who refuted the claims in Time magazine -https://time.com/5310066/duff-beer-origin/?amp=true) hasn’t had any association with Fox/Disney since 2007, and that Duff’s name was not trademarked at the time, you must concede the argument falls apart a bit. It also goes against the very spirit of the simpsons, who never once shied away from poking fun at and lampooning celebrities, with or without their consent/go-ahead. Nor have they been shy about giving credit where credit’s due. However, not once has Duff McKagan ever been alluded to in the show, let alone with regards to the beer. Ask yourself what the comedy value of naming the beer after Duff is? The fact axl introduced him as the ‘king of beers’? It’s hardly Emmy winning satire is it? Did it open the door to parody or stories about rock bands in the same way every other element of the show did for one facet of American life or another? Not once. It was entirely their gateway to write about alcoholism and drinking culture… never once bassists or rock music.

Anyway… in the Series 4 DVD commentary, Al Jean (the showrunner to this day) confirmed Series 1 writer Jay Kogen came up with the name Duff. As I expected, in the commentary, there is no mention of GNR. Learning this, I decided to take a punt and message Jay on instagram. I said I wanted to know out of interest as the debate was ongoing, and that I had personally assumed Duff beer was a parody of the monosyllabic, typically working class beer brands like ‘bud’, ‘coors’, ‘Busch’ and ‘schlitz’. Jay just happened to respond this evening - 

https://imgur.com/a/RKMv9jZ
 

Jay hasn’t worked for the show for some time, and therefore isn’t too concerned about Disney’s liability for legal recourse, of which there wouldn’t be any, due to the fact -

a. Duff McKagan not trademarking his name til much later, and

B. Duff just being a noun, like any other.
 

To those who may question the fact Jay isn’t a verified user, I have supplied some screenshots of his followers below to clarify some validity of the source.  

Bill Oakley, one of the more famous ‘golden era’ writers of the simpsons follows the account that responded to me.

https://imgur.com/a/FLSnLzV

the lovely Lisa kudrow also follows Jay (he has done a lot of writing for many sitcoms over the years)

https://imgur.com/a/4BfcUf6

Let me be clear. I love Duff McKagan. He inspired me to learn the bass, something I ended up doing professionally and to this day is my life long passion and hobby. He also seems like, by all accounts, a lovely bloke and a decent upstanding man. I’m not calling him a liar, or trying to besmirch his good name. I just assume due to the transience and chaos of his and his band mates’ lives in the 80s and 90s, coupled with his (and his entourages’) chemical intakes, memories of jokes and  conversations may have morphed into myths. Maybe whilst watching the simpsons, a hanger on/manager said in jest ‘hey, you should get a few bucks out of this’, and over the years, wires get crossed and recollections become shaky.

 

I don't really care what they say😄. GNR were everywhere in 1990 and were not just some unknown act that you wouldn't have heard of. It's either a huge coincidence or they knowingly used his name. What I find weird is their flat denial of it, surely it's easier to just say "I can't remember exactly, but it's possible we saw something". 

[Tom2112]

11 hours ago, lunastar said:

This is the first time I've heard that Duff is the king of beer. Was there already YouTube, messengers, social networks at that time? Did everyone know in those days that he was the king of beer? As for Duff, Dave ambruzzesse also talked about it (an interview in another thread). Dave said (to paraphrase) that Duff was worried about being little visible in the band. The management just fined Duff, amused his ego. Duff may be a nice guy, but he definitely has an inflated ego like Axl/Slash, within the framework of his image. And it feels like he's ready to use a sweet little lie just to be noticeable. He also flew on the same plane as Kurt Cobain.

Just because you hadn't heard Duff being called the king of beers doesn't mean he wasn't called that, or that he didn't have the belt buckle or that gnr management weren't contacted about the use if the name. Some fantastic jumps though to say his an egomaniac.

All rock stars are a bit egocentric. And a lot of people working in the arts industry have trouble admitting where ideas originate from, explaining why there's now a thing called copyright law. Duff didn't have his trademarks and so this is just a funny anecdote. I see absolutely no reason why he would make this up or why gnr management would come to him and tell him they received a call when they didn't.

[lunastar]

7 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Just because you hadn't heard Duff being called the king of beers doesn't mean he wasn't called that, or that he didn't have the belt buckle or that gnr management weren't contacted about the use if the name. Some fantastic jumps though to say his an egomaniac.

All rock stars are a bit egocentric. And a lot of people working in the arts industry have trouble admitting where ideas originate from, explaining why there's now a thing called copyright law. Duff didn't have his trademarks and so this is just a funny anecdote. I see absolutely no reason why he would make this up or why gnr management would come to him and tell him they received a call when they didn't.

All rock stars are egocentric, but I don't consider Duff a rock star, he's just the bassist of a famous rock band. If he was a rock star, then the creators of the series named beer after him, because a rock star has an influence on culture. And they didn't, which is why Duff is suffering. He really really wants to be a rock star, lol

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, lunastar said:

All rock stars are egocentric, but I don't consider Duff a rock star, he's just the bassist of a famous rock band. If he was a rock star, then the creators of the series named beer after him, because a rock star has an influence on culture. And they didn't, which is why Duff is suffering. He really really wants to be a rock star, lol

Wants to be a rockstar? what exact credentials is he missing? multi-platinum albums, millions in the bank, model wife, flys on private jets, is known world-wide. Am I missing something? 

He's not Steven Tyler, but he's a rock star by all definitions. Read the book, he's got the credentials.

[lunastar]

7 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Wants to be a rockstar? what exact credentials is he missing? multi-platinum albums, millions in the bank, model wife, flys on private jets, is known world-wide. Am I missing something? 

He's not Steven Tyler, but he's a rock star by all definitions. Read the book, he's got the credentials.

What credentials he is missing - I wrote about it above, you can re-read. A rock star is a person who has an impact on popular culture. That's exactly what Duff McKagan is trying to achieve by mentioning the Simpsons, and you're arguing with him, not with me, lol. And no, Duff McKagan personally has no multi-platinum albums. It was the Gnr band that sold so many albums, not Duff McKagan personally. Private jets and a top model wife are not an indicator of rock star status, they are an indicator of a high standard of living. And I don't understand why I repeat the same thing twice, at the time when I wrote about everything above.

[Rovim]

Just now, lunastar said:

What credentials he is missing - I wrote about it above, you can re-read. A rock star is a person who has an impact on popular culture. That's exactly what Duff McKagan is trying to achieve by mentioning the Simpsons, and you're arguing with him, not with me, lol. And no, Duff McKagan personally has no multi-platinum albums. It was the Gnr band that sold so many albums, not Duff McKagan personally. Private jets and a top model wife are not an indicator of rock star status, they are an indicator of a high standard of living. And I don't understand why I repeat the same thing twice, at the time when I wrote about everything above.

the rest of the classic lineup of Gn'R didn't make it on their own. Duff was a part of it and he is an influential bass player and one of the most famous bass players from one of the most famous hard rock bands in history.

going by everything that Duff said that I've read, he comes off as a fairly well grounded human being and seems to care about being a quality and kind person without actually knowing the guy of course.

a lot of your posts contain speculation that doesn't really have a basis in reality or facts and you seem to quickly draw conclusions that are based on your general opinions about people. I find your critical thinking severly lacking, no offense. 

I would humbly suggest that you take the time to actually know what it is you're talking about before posting your opinion about it. 

[MaskingApathy]

18 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

I don't really care what they say😄. GNR were everywhere in 1990 and were not just some unknown act that you wouldn't have heard of. It's either a huge coincidence or they knowingly used his name. What I find weird is their flat denial of it, surely it's easier to just say "I can't remember exactly, but it's possible we saw something". 

Yes everyone knew GnR back then but I don't think the general public knew who Duff was the same way they knew Axl & Slash.

[Tom2112]

9 hours ago, MaskingApathy said:

Yes everyone knew GnR back then but I don't think the general public knew who Duff was the same way they knew Axl & Slash.

But it's very likely that you could have seen him, the mtv awards where he went with Slash and was wasted. I mean there's plenty of times where he was on national television, and there's every chance one person in the writers room knew of him 

[Tom2112]

17 hours ago, lunastar said:

What credentials he is missing - I wrote about it above, you can re-read. A rock star is a person who has an impact on popular culture. That's exactly what Duff McKagan is trying to achieve by mentioning the Simpsons, and you're arguing with him, not with me, lol. And no, Duff McKagan personally has no multi-platinum albums. It was the Gnr band that sold so many albums, not Duff McKagan personally. Private jets and a top model wife are not an indicator of rock star status, they are an indicator of a high standard of living. And I don't understand why I repeat the same thing twice, at the time when I wrote about everything above.

Sorry you're so far off base I don't know what to tell you. 

He is in gnr so he personally has platinum albums, he also has co-writes on several gnr songs so he's not the hanger on you're trying to suggest he is. And on top of that, there is a role in a band that may not be a songwriter, but keeps the band functioning... Duff is that person in gnr 

You don't make a great argument. That's why you need to repeat yourself and try and explain you're really bizarre narrative 

Edited June 22 by Tom2112

[jamillos]

I wish Duff and anyone else could let this fucking thing go already. I mean it's 2024 here, the AI is basically taking over, and we're still at this. Come on. 

[Free Bird]

21 hours ago, lunastar said:

What credentials he is missing - I wrote about it above, you can re-read. A rock star is a person who has an impact on popular culture. That's exactly what Duff McKagan is trying to achieve by mentioning the Simpsons, and you're arguing with him, not with me, lol. And no, Duff McKagan personally has no multi-platinum albums. It was the Gnr band that sold so many albums, not Duff McKagan personally. Private jets and a top model wife are not an indicator of rock star status, they are an indicator of a high standard of living. And I don't understand why I repeat the same thing twice, at the time when I wrote about everything above.

Duff was THE bass player for one of the most successful bands ever and continued his career in multiple supergroups. He’s known internationally by fans and people who are into rock music.

He might not be a rock super star but he definitely is a rock star.

[Karice]

4 hours ago, jamillos said:

I wish Duff and anyone else could let this fucking thing go already. I mean it's 2024 here, the AI is basically taking over, and we're still at this. Come on. 

Speaking of AI taking over, Michael Jackson has a Tour coming in August. Michael Jackson has been dead for 15 years coming up June 25th! 😱😳😵‍💫🥶☢️🥴😵 It's scary that even when Celebrities are dead, AI will STILL be giving Tours! 😱😳😵‍💫🥶☢️🥴😵

[D4NNY]

7 hours ago, Karice said:

Speaking of AI taking over, Michael Jackson has a Tour coming in August. Michael Jackson has been dead for 15 years coming up June 25th! 😱😳😵‍💫🥶☢️🥴😵 It's scary that even when Celebrities are dead, AI will STILL be giving Tours! 😱😳😵‍💫🥶☢️🥴😵

I can’t find anything about an MJ AI tour? 🤔 

[evilfacelessturtle]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:30 AM, Blackstar said:

A comment like "hey, we didn't even know who this guy was" is meant to be insulting to someone especially when refuting a claim, regardless of whether it's true or not.

It is? Even if it's true? That doesn't make sense. Is he supposed to lie to protect Duff's feelings?

 

23 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

But it's very likely that you could have seen him, the mtv awards where he went with Slash and was wasted. I mean there's plenty of times where he was on national television, and there's every chance one person in the writers room knew of him 

Okay, but even one person in the room knew him, that doesn't mean they named it after him or that the guy who came up with it was the one in the room who knew who Duff was.

[Lio]

8 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

It is? Even if it's true? That doesn't make sense. Is he supposed to lie to protect Duff's feelings?

 

Okay, but even one person in the room knew him, that doesn't mean they named it after him or that the guy who came up with it was the one in the room who knew who Duff was.

It's the Simpsons. It's not people making a documentary on national geographic. They made a cartoon full of cultural references for exactly the same audience. I find it very hard to believe they didn't know the guy, even if they didn't name the beer after Duff.