Has Frank been relegated to a touring drummer?

[Live Like a Suicide]

Absurd, HS and Perhaps have all had re-recordings done by Slash, Duff, Richard and (possibly) Melissa/Dizzy. We know for a fact that Absurd and Perhaps had Brain on the drums, and The General could potentially follow suit given it was partially written by Brain. In fact, the only track for which we don't have conclusive evidence for Brain playing on it is Hard Skool.

Given the re-recordings done without Frank being on the final product for at least two of the three releases, is it fair to say that Frank could have been relegated to a touring drummer? Why has he been skipped on re-recordings when Richard and (possibly) Melissa haven't? Is Brain GN'R's studio drummer?

Food for thought.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Live Like a Suicide

[ChristianGNR]

Nothing against Frank at all, but if he is not good enough for studio recording sessions, I’d rather Brain to come back.

Edited August 20, 2023 by ChristianGNR

[HollyWoodRose84]

Musically, Frank has been the worst member since he joined. Great guy, average at best drummer. 

[DSTK]

Relegated to a touring drummer ? He always has been...in the band since 06, CD was pretty much finished by then 

3 minutes ago, HollyWoodRose84 said:

Musically, Frank has been the worst member since he joined. Great guy, average at best drummer. 

Pitman was worse

[allwaystired]

There isn't any evidence to suggest he's anything other than a touring drummer is there? 

 

[DoMw94]

I saw a theory on another site that makes sense:

These tracks were worked on in lockdown. Slash and Duff have home studios, but maybe there wasn't a way for Frank to redo the drums at home.

That, and since the drums are the backbone of a song, Slash and Duff (and Richard and Melissa) just worked with what was already in the bank (for example, Brain's drum tracks from the early 2000s) to just get the job done – we know they've been sat on these for a while.

Just a theory, but it makes sense since Brain often still tours with the band anyway, so 1. If he was in the band, he'd be playing, and 2. We'd know Frank wasn't a member and he wouldn't be treated like one, which he is.

Also, remember there's a bunch of songs on Chinese Democracy that do feature Frank.

Edited August 20, 2023 by DoMw94

[DoMw94]

10 minutes ago, HollyWoodRose84 said:

Musically, Frank has been the worst member since he joined. Great guy, average at best drummer. 

Yeah but that's not really a good reflection on his ability, someone has to be. Worst in an immensely talented cast doesn't for a second make him bad.

Get rid of Frank and then who's the worst musically? Dizzy? Brain? Richard? Melissa? Duff? All crazy talented, but one would supposedly be the 'worst' 🤷‍♂️

[allwaystired]

8 minutes ago, DoMw94 said:

I saw a theory on another site that makes sense:

These tracks were worked on in lockdown. Slash and Duff have home studios, but maybe there wasn't a way for Frank to redo the drums at home.

That, and since the drums are the backbone of a song, Slash and Duff (and Richard and Melissa) just worked with what was already in the bank (for example, Brain's drum tracks from the early 2000s) to just get the job done – we know they've been sat on these for a while.

Just a theory, but it makes sense since Brain often still tours with the band anyway, 1. If he was in the band, he'd be playing, and 2. We'd know Frank wasn't a member and he wouldn't be treated like one, which he is.

Also, remember there's a bunch of songs on Chinese Democracy that do feature Frank.

Reasonable theory I'd say. 

It's equally likely though that there was just no need to replace the drums. 

Slash and Duff needed to be added, for publicity and authenticity and personal politics reasons......other than that, there maybe just wasn't a reason to re-do stuff that already sounded good? 

[Caught_in_a_Coma]

And is Brain the best drummer GN'R ever had?

[Italian girl]

How sad

[rumandraisin]

30 minutes ago, DSTK said:

Relegated to a touring drummer ? He always has been...in the band since 06, CD was pretty much finished by then 

Pitman was worse

Pitman shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Frank. 

On CD he was a writer, producer and multi instrumentalist. I'm a big Pitman fan. I miss the bendy keyboard and the red towel. 

14 minutes ago, Caught_in_a_Coma said:

And is Brain the best drummer GN'R ever had?

Arguably. 

[Sosso]

35 minutes ago, DSTK said:

Pitman was worse

Pitman added a lot of useful layers in the studio. He was just useless in a live setting.

[Blackstar]

I think it just resonates with Axl's more fluid idea of what a band is - more like a project and an extended "family" than a "band" as a unit in the conventional sense. He has had this concept at least since the AFD lineup started falling apart. For example, initially Matt was going to be the studio drummer for UYI and Steven was going on tour when he got his act together (and that was an idea Slash agreed with because he wanted the albums done). Then Izzy could write with the band and Gilby would be the touring guitar player, then the same pattern with Paul Tobias and Gilby (and that was one of the points of contention between Axl and Slash).

So, in Axl's mind there are the "owners" of the band and then this big family where there can be a studio drummer and a (mostly) touring drummer, and both can be equally members of the "GN'R fam".

[DoMw94]

33 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

It's equally likely though that there was just no need to replace the drums. 

A quote from the Reddit thread where I got the idea from:

"it doesnt always make sense to rerecord the drum parts that a song was built on. its like redoing the foundation of a house thats already standing."

Whoever says that makes a good point.

Practicality is probably the only reason for Brain's 'involvement', but the GN'R fanbase loves to read too much into everything 😂

Edited August 20, 2023 by DoMw94

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, DoMw94 said:

A quote from the Reddit thread where I got the idea from:

"it doesnt always make sense to rerecord the drum parts that a song was built on. its like redoing the foundation of a house thats already standing."

Whoever says that makes a good point.

Practicality is probably the only reason for Brain's 'involvement', but the GN'R fanbase loves to read too much into everything 😂

And yet Axl had Brain re-record all Josh Freese's parts - twice - but didn't do the same with Frank on CD.

[DoMw94]

4 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

And yet Axl had Brain re-record all Josh Freese's parts - twice - but didn't do the same with Frank on CD.

Different scenarios though. They were in the process of building an album from scratch, whereas this was about adding 'new' parts to already finished songs as something to do during lockdown. Hardly worth comparing really

[Jwalker19]

This is definitely a fair question and one that has crossed my mind lately.

[Blackstar]

3 minutes ago, DoMw94 said:

Different scenarios though. They were in the process of building an album from scratch, whereas this was about adding 'new' parts to already finished songs as something to do during lockdown. Hardly worth comparing really

Many of the songs were finished or near finished when Brain took over though. Perhaps, for example, was fully structured.

[felixGNR]

20 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

And yet Axl had Brain re-record all Josh Freese's parts - twice - but didn't do the same with Frank on CD.

i think reason # 1 was lack of $$

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, felixGNR said:

i think reason # 1 was lack of $$

For Frank on CD? Maybe, but then again Bumblefoot recorded a bunch of guitars for about 30 tracks (according to him) in that same period. Frank recorded too, but was featured much less.

I think Axl was just happy with Brain's drums and saw no reason to replace them (plus, at that time, it was unclear whether Brain would return as an active drummer). Same with Fortus, as rhythm guitar parts were recorded. Bumblefoot, on the other hand, added more layers.

[SlashisGOD]

1 hour ago, Caught_in_a_Coma said:

And is Brain the best drummer GN'R ever had?

Matt

[WildStar]

1 hour ago, allwaystired said:

Reasonable theory I'd say. 

It's equally likely though that there was just no need to replace the drums. 

Slash and Duff needed to be added, for publicity and authenticity and personal politics reasons......other than that, there maybe just wasn't a reason to re-do stuff that already sounded good? 

And also that Frank wouldn't be able to play as well as Brain

[HollyWoodRose84]

1 hour ago, DSTK said:

Relegated to a touring drummer ? He always has been...in the band since 06, CD was pretty much finished by then 

Pitman was worse

You barely notice a keyboard player.

 

 

You always notice a drummer.

[HollyWoodRose84]

1 hour ago, DoMw94 said:

Yeah but that's not really a good reflection on his ability, someone has to be. Worst in an immensely talented cast doesn't for a second make him bad.

Get rid of Frank and then who's the worst musically? Dizzy? Brain? Richard? Melissa? Duff? All crazy talented, but one would supposedly be the 'worst' 🤷‍♂️

See my previous post.

 

A drummer is the heartbeat of every single band.
 

Frank isn’t “talented” he’s average. And again, not a knock to him at all. You can’t tell me you’ve left any live gig with him playing going “damn the drummer is awesome.” All previous GnR drummers were immensely talented and added to the feel, live experience and recording process.
Brain was their all around best drummer. But from  a kick your face in perspective, that spot goes to Matt. 

[DoMw94]

6 minutes ago, HollyWoodRose84 said:

You barely notice a keyboard player.

 

 

You always notice a drummer.

Yeah but we are talking about the poser with a stupid tilting keyboard here, along with the guy who sat at the back of the stage and almost always wore black.

Nobody was noticing the drummer over that keyboardist back then 😂