THE GENERAL - MONSTERS - Official Discussion Thread. NO LINKS OR ASKING FOR LINKS

[tboneman]

4 hours ago, DannyVinyard said:

Call me crazy, but I rank it as the best album to this day, post 2000. It sold a million copies in the US without any promotion or support from Axl Rose, and releasing one of the weakest songs on the album as the first single. Let's say, Axl does proper promotion of the album, interviews, shows, releases There Was a Time as the first single along with epic UYI style music video, followed by Better, Street of Dreams, Prostitute, Catcher in the Rye....all with epic videos, this monster sells 10 million plus, easy. If Axl did this, Finck stays and hell, even Bucket might have come back.

10 million? C'mon. Even Death Magnetic and Black Ice compined didn't sell that much in 2008. And they were big comeback albums promoted everywhere. Yes it would have sold more with that kind of promotion but maybe like 2-5 million max. 

[thomase]

i love the leak songs i think The General is a demo and soul monster is a studio song soul monster is very clean and you can hear it clearly but i could be wrong

[Bitchisback]

6 hours ago, DannyVinyard said:

Call me crazy, but I rank it as the best album to this day, post 2000. It sold a million copies in the US without any promotion or support from Axl Rose, and releasing one of the weakest songs on the album as the first single. Let's say, Axl does proper promotion of the album, interviews, shows, releases There Was a Time as the first single along with epic UYI style music video, followed by Better, Street of Dreams, Prostitute, Catcher in the Rye....all with epic videos, this monster sells 10 million plus, easy. If Axl did this, Finck stays and hell, even Bucket might have come back.

LOL

[axljungle]

Tictac tictac tictac tictac only 4 days until the official release of The General.

It will be streaming release?

[DingBat]

Just now, axljungle said:

Tictac tictac tictac tictac only 4 days until the official release of The General.

It will be streaming release?

Looks like it, hopefully Monsters will be on it too.

[DannyVinyard]

6 hours ago, colonizedmind said:

You think Robin left because of sales?

I think he left because Axl refused to promote/support the album. 

[CAFC Nick]

22 minutes ago, DannyVinyard said:

I think he left because Axl refused to promote/support the album. 

Actually think his contract was up after the ANZ tour in early 07 so believe he was no longer an employee. Of course I imagine he was first choice but don’t think he was under legal obligation by the time CD actually came out.

[JimiRose]

3 minutes ago, CAFC Nick said:

Actually think his contract was up after the ANZ tour in early 07 so believe he was no longer an employee. Of course I imagine he was first choice but don’t think he was under legal obligation by the time CD actually came out.

has anyone actually asked him or found out exactly why he left? from what I remember the first we knew he was out was when they announced the 09 tour and that Dj ashba was the new guitarist for it in place of robin. it just shows that nugnr were never really a band. you dont put band members on contracts. you're in the band or you aint. for even finck to be a hired hand when he wrote most of the songs in the entire era and to be on the 01/02 tour and 06/07. Like he's a footballer just running down his contract to join a different club. it's ridiculous

[Draguns]

11 hours ago, DannyVinyard said:

Call me crazy, but I rank it as the best album to this day, post 2000. It sold a million copies in the US without any promotion or support from Axl Rose, and releasing one of the weakest songs on the album as the first single. Let's say, Axl does proper promotion of the album, interviews, shows, releases There Was a Time as the first single along with epic UYI style music video, followed by Better, Street of Dreams, Prostitute, Catcher in the Rye....all with epic videos, this monster sells 10 million plus, easy. If Axl did this, Finck stays and hell, even Bucket might have come back.

Not a chance that it would have sold 10 million copies. Black Ice and Death Magnetic were better albums than CD ( this is coming from me who has been a diehard GNR fan since 87). Those albums didn't sell 10 million. I thought Better or Chinese Democracy would be the two best songs as a first single. There Was a Time was too long for radio at that time. 

[Dean]

49 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

has anyone actually asked him or found out exactly why he left? from what I remember the first we knew he was out was when they announced the 09 tour and that Dj ashba was the new guitarist for it in place of robin. it just shows that nugnr were never really a band. you dont put band members on contracts. you're in the band or you aint. for even finck to be a hired hand when he wrote most of the songs in the entire era and to be on the 01/02 tour and 06/07. Like he's a footballer just running down his contract to join a different club. it's ridiculous

He was pictured in the studio with NIN, if I recall correctly, before the release of Chinese and their socials announcing his return. Axl was asked about his status in the chats that December and I think was still under the impression he’d be involved with Guns

[Voodoochild]

1 hour ago, CAFC Nick said:

Actually think his contract was up after the ANZ tour in early 07 so believe he was no longer an employee. Of course I imagine he was first choice but don’t think he was under legal obligation by the time CD actually came out.

4 minutes ago, Dean said:

He was pictured in the studio with NIN, if I recall correctly, before the release of Chinese and their socials announcing his return. Axl was asked about his status in the chats that December and I think was still under the impression he’d be involved with Guns

Yeah, back then Axl said something like "oh, that got us by surprise. Robin is Robin, and he has one of the most eccentric lifestyles. We'll see how it goes". Rumors according to MSL's supposedly leaked emails were that Robin didn't get payed and was gaslighted by the then management, until he got fed up and accepted Trent's invite to rejoin NIN. 

In a personal level, that was the most heartbroken I got with this band. Even more than when it happened with Slash because back then, I was a fan but the band was not active at all, so I just assumed that Slash could get back eventually (well, I was kinda right about it lol).

 

34 minutes ago, Draguns said:

Not a chance that it would have sold 10 million copies. Black Ice and Death Magnetic were better albums than CD ( this is coming from me who has been a diehard GNR fan since 87). Those albums didn't sell 10 million. I thought Better or Chinese Democracy would be the two best songs as a first single. There Was a Time was too long for radio at that time. 

That's entirely subjective. I'm a diehard fan since 89 and to me CD is million times better than both of those albums. Also, TWAT could've had a radio edit, the track length is not a deal breaker. But I really don't see it as a radio single at all. IMO, Street of Dreams would suit it better.

[DannyVinyard]

11 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

to me CD is million times better than both of those albums. Also, TWAT could've had a radio edit, the track length is not a deal breaker. But I really don't see it as a radio single at all. IMO, Street of Dreams would suit it better.

Agree 100%. AC/DC has always been an okay band to me, not remarkable, but not bad either. I don't think Black Ice broke any new ground for them. Death Magnetic, same thing, an okay album (better than St. Anger), although it did have a great song in The Day That Never Comes. I wouldn't rank these albums anywhere close to Chinese Democracy.

[Rindmelon]

8 hours ago, colonizedmind said:

You think Robin left because of sales?

Any day now...anyone expecting it a little early? Around Wed/Thurs would be nice!

School of thought at the time was that management screwed with his pay and tried to make it hard for him to contact Axl, the idea being if management could force him out then it would pave the way to get Slash back in. Who knows if that's true or not, as good as any other guess i suppose.

[guitarpatch]

2 hours ago, DannyVinyard said:

I think he left because Axl refused to promote/support the album. 

It’s been said that Azoff muddied communication and his pay was being messed with. Potentially to facilitate the need for a lead guitarist with a top hat 

[CAFC Nick]

13 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

It’s been said that Azoff muddied communication and his pay was being messed with. Potentially to facilitate the need for a lead guitarist with a top hat 

And a guitarist with a top hat we got 

[uzi your illusion]

14 hours ago, Bitchisback said:

It's not just the fact that it's real that's important, it was taken in the Kowlokn Walled City which is wild. The odds of finding that are incredibly slim. Next to zero. What a cool photo

It's not just the fact that it's real that's important, it was taken in the Kowlokn Walled City which is wild. The odds of finding that are incredibly slim. Next to zero. What a cool photo

That's cool. I don't remember hearing that. Was that said at the same time that Axl first showed the picture from the stage?

[rumandraisin]

1 hour ago, Rindmelon said:

School of thought at the time was that management screwed with his pay and tried to make it hard for him to contact Axl, the idea being if management could force him out then it would pave the way to get Slash back in. Who knows if that's true or not, as good as any other guess i suppose.

Exactly that. It's very clear what Azoffs plan was. Get Chinese out, fuck with communication and members pay, touring plans and force Axl in to a reunion situation. I'm so glad Axl was able to hold out until he was ready. Say what you will but Axl in that era always came out on top and stuck to his integrity even if it meant being pretty much seen as the enemy by fans, press and the mainstream who just wanted a reunion. He never caved in. 

[agustingloger]

2 hours ago, DannyVinyard said:

Agree 100%. AC/DC has always been an okay band to me, not remarkable, but not bad either. I don't think Black Ice broke any new ground for them. Death Magnetic, same thing, an okay album (better than St. Anger), although it did have a great song in The Day That Never Comes. I wouldn't rank these albums anywhere close to Chinese Democracy.

But they sound like ACDC and Metallica. CD does not sound like GN'R at all

[Draguns]

3 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

Yeah, back then Axl said something like "oh, that got us by surprise. Robin is Robin, and he has one of the most eccentric lifestyles. We'll see how it goes". Rumors according to MSL's supposedly leaked emails were that Robin didn't get payed and was gaslighted by the then management, until he got fed up and accepted Trent's invite to rejoin NIN. 

In a personal level, that was the most heartbroken I got with this band. Even more than when it happened with Slash because back then, I was a fan but the band was not active at all, so I just assumed that Slash could get back eventually (well, I was kinda right about it lol).

 

That's entirely subjective. I'm a diehard fan since 89 and to me CD is million times better than both of those albums. Also, TWAT could've had a radio edit, the track length is not a deal breaker. But I really don't see it as a radio single at all. IMO, Street of Dreams would suit it better.

It's your fandom talking. It's not being realistic. Both albums were better.  If you look at the three albums lead off singles , "Rock N Roll Train" and "The Day That Never Comes" were more successful than CD. I like CD a lot. Additionally, there were no Slash and Duff on the album, which hurt sales of the album.

As an album CD was good, but not great.  It was missing elements that made GNR great. Casual fans saw this. Additionally, it was leaked onto MySpace, which hurt the sales of the album more.  As I previously stated, the worst business decision that Axl made at the time was keeping the GNR name. Even if he had promoted the album, I don't think it would have mattered as much as some fans think.  Casuals expected Slash and to a lesser extent Duff on a GNR album.  that wasn't what they got.

[Its Tino]

How long did it take Best Buy to sell those million they bought?

[Draguns]

2 hours ago, rumandraisin said:

Exactly that. It's very clear what Azoffs plan was. Get Chinese out, fuck with communication and members pay, touring plans and force Axl in to a reunion situation. I'm so glad Axl was able to hold out until he was ready. Say what you will but Axl in that era always came out on top and stuck to his integrity even if it meant being pretty much seen as the enemy by fans, press and the mainstream who just wanted a reunion. He never caved in. 

Did he REALLY come out on top, though?  I mean it's kinda obvious that the entire episode did a number on him. Nu-GNR wasn't successful. Ultimately,  he got Slash and Duff back in GNR. 

[Voodoochild]

40 minutes ago, Draguns said:

It's your fandom talking. It's not being realistic. Both albums were better.  If you look at the three albums lead off singles , "Rock N Roll Train" and "The Day That Never Comes" were more successful than CD. I like CD a lot. Additionally, there were no Slash and Duff on the album, which hurt sales of the album.

As an album CD was good, but not great.  It was missing elements that made GNR great. Casual fans saw this. Additionally, it was leaked onto MySpace, which hurt the sales of the album more.  As I previously stated, the worst business decision that Axl made at the time was keeping the GNR name. Even if he had promoted the album, I don't think it would have mattered as much as some fans think.  Casuals expected Slash and to a lesser extent Duff on a GNR album.  that wasn't what they got.

No, it’s still subjective. Why would you pigeonhole my opinion as being “fandom speaking” while you state your opinion as gospel? 

Also, the album didnt leak on MySpace, the band released it there. It was actually a bold move, even if not the smartest.

BTW, I don’t give two flying fucks to sales and being “successful”. I like what I like, and I didn’t like those other two albums at all back then and never really wanted to get back to listen again. 

[CaioAKR]

4 hours ago, Draguns said:

It's your fandom talking. It's not being realistic. Both albums were better.  If you look at the three albums lead off singles , "Rock N Roll Train" and "The Day That Never Comes" were more successful than CD. I like CD a lot. Additionally, there were no Slash and Duff on the album, which hurt sales of the album.

As an album CD was good, but not great.  It was missing elements that made GNR great. Casual fans saw this. Additionally, it was leaked onto MySpace, which hurt the sales of the album more.  As I previously stated, the worst business decision that Axl made at the time was keeping the GNR name. Even if he had promoted the album, I don't think it would have mattered as much as some fans think.  Casuals expected Slash and to a lesser extent Duff on a GNR album.  that wasn't what they got.

Nah, I'm with Voodoo on this one. I find CD a million times better than Death Magnetic and Black Ice. It's subjective, of course, but you really can't call it a fact. Being more successful says nothing about the quality. I much prefer something different and interesting like CD than a lesser rehash of past material.

Edited December 5, 2023 by CaioAKR

[evilfacelessturtle]

 

47 minutes ago, Draguns said:

It's your fandom talking. It's not being realistic. Both albums were better.  If you look at the three albums lead off singles , "Rock N Roll Train" and "The Day That Never Comes" were more successful than CD. I like CD a lot. Additionally, there were no Slash and Duff on the album, which hurt sales of the album.

As an album CD was good, but not great.  It was missing elements that made GNR great. Casual fans saw this. Additionally, it was leaked onto MySpace, which hurt the sales of the album more.  As I previously stated, the worst business decision that Axl made at the time was keeping the GNR name. Even if he had promoted the album, I don't think it would have mattered as much as some fans think.  Casuals expected Slash and to a lesser extent Duff on a GNR album.  that wasn't what they got.

 

I'm equally an AC/DC and GNR fan (don't care about Metallica) and I would never compare Black Ice to CD. Black Ice had some interesting ideas, but only a few fully realized songs. Rock N Roll Train is one of the worst songs they've ever done. But it's stupid and simplistic with a big chanting chorus, and it was the lead single after a long hiatus, so of course it was successful. It's also exactly what people expected from AC/DC. CD was never trying to be a mainstream hit and serve up that low hanging fruit.

Money Made should have been the lead single, that was the best song by a mile.

 

 

[DK6]

3 minutes ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

 

 

I'm equally an AC/DC and GNR fan (don't care about Metallica) and I would never compare Black Ice to CD. Black Ice had some interesting ideas, but only a few fully realized songs. Rock N Roll Train is one of the worst songs they've ever done. But it's stupid and simplistic with a big chanting chorus, and it was the lead single after a long hiatus, so of course it was successful. It's also exactly what people expected from AC/DC. CD was never trying to be a mainstream hit and serve up that low hanging fruit.

Money Made should have been the lead single, that was the best song by a mile.

 

 

The first single should have been "Whats that? Look out! Dog on the Road!"