THE GENERAL - MONSTERS - Official Discussion Thread. NO LINKS OR ASKING FOR LINKS

[Sweersa]

6 hours ago, gavgnr said:

I still think it was someone within GnR’s inner circle, purely to avoid backlash for 2 reasons:

1. The perhaps/general single was delayed on the scheduled release day

2. The song we thought was the General was in fact Monsters. Fans would have blown their shitter waiting all that time for a song which sounds nothing like they’d imagined 

I wish they leaked the Buckethead era mixes of those two songs. Then, we would get the best of both worlds eventually! 

Edited May 24 by Sweersa

[gavgnr]

5 hours ago, Sweersa said:

I wish they leaked the Buckethead era mixes of those two songs. Then, we would get the best of both worlds eventually! 

Agreed. I think the Chinese era of Monsters is my last holy grail

[Sweersa]

17 minutes ago, gavgnr said:

Agreed. I think the Chinese era of Monsters is my last holy grail

It would be amazing! From what we hear from the 2010 party recording, it sounds very different too from what is expected to be the final NITL version. The backing vocals sound higher in the mix from the 2010 recording, perhaps then maybe the song didn't have the full vocal take the 2023 leak has. Still, it would be worth hearing the amazing instrumental with whatever vocals they had done then (if not complete). 

I have a feeling the guitar we heard from that version is Robin or Buckethead, but since it was from 2010, it could have been Bumblefoot as he stated he recorded on several songs that were not on the 2008 album, which we also know from a handful of leaks. 

A member here @Brodie years ago said something to the effect of he would kill babies if Bumblefoot recorded over Buckethead's guitar on that song, referred to it as Soul Monster back then, so I expect it was quite amazing. Brodie was believed to be the Chinese Democracy mod L!VE FREE, who was widely believed to possess numerous songs that have yet to leak in the form of the versions he had, if at all depending on the song. I know he had at least one mix of Leave Me Alone (working title for Soul Monster, as I'm sure you know) Oh My God, Silkworms, The General (he described it accurate to what we now know how it sounds like today, several years ago) and other, earlier songs. @Brodie also said there are a lot more "completed" songs than most believed, and this was post-CD. (After 2008) I wish he was still around, he is believed to no longer be with us, and if so, may be Rest In Peace.

Hopefully one day we will hear it, either by leak or an official version as bonus content, remix, etc. 

[gavgnr]

Would be a damn shame not to hear it 

[6lake sa66ath]

https://blabbermouth.net/news/slash-on-artificial-intelligence-in-music-im-not-super-excited-about-this-new-development
 

Thought these comments from Slash were interesting considering the use of A.I. for The General music video, but not what he’s referencing here of course.

[Uncle Bob]

On 5/25/2024 at 12:15 AM, 6lake sa66ath said:

https://blabbermouth.net/news/slash-on-artificial-intelligence-in-music-im-not-super-excited-about-this-new-development
 

Thought these comments from Slash were interesting considering the use of A.I. for The General music video, but not what he’s referencing here of course.

100% sure Slash had no word about the decission of getting that video done.

Slash gets it, AI it's cool... for making memes and weird shit, that's it

[WhazUp]

On 5/24/2024 at 3:15 PM, 6lake sa66ath said:

https://blabbermouth.net/news/slash-on-artificial-intelligence-in-music-im-not-super-excited-about-this-new-development
 

Thought these comments from Slash were interesting considering the use of A.I. for The General music video, but not what he’s referencing here of course.

I wouldn't be surprised if Slash either doesn't even know that there is a video for The General or if he hasn't seen it at all

 

The entire thing screams to me "Team Brazil commissioned it and got the green light by Axl to release it"

[Uncle Bob]

7 hours ago, WhazUp said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Slash either doesn't even know that there is a video for The General or if he hasn't seen it at all

 

The entire thing screams to me "Team Brazil commissioned it and got the green light by Axl to release it"

Well, the creative works London guy said it was going to be cgi at first, but Fernando requested to use AI

[Voodoochild]

On 5/24/2024 at 4:12 PM, Sweersa said:

It would be amazing! From what we hear from the 2010 party recording, it sounds very different too from what is expected to be the final NITL version. The backing vocals sound higher in the mix from the 2010 recording, perhaps then maybe the song didn't have the full vocal take the 2023 leak has. Still, it would be worth hearing the amazing instrumental with whatever vocals they had done then (if not complete). 

I have a feeling the guitar we heard from that version is Robin or Buckethead, but since it was from 2010, it could have been Bumblefoot as he stated he recorded on several songs that were not on the 2008 album, which we also know from a handful of leaks. 

A member here @Brodie years ago said something to the effect of he would kill babies if Bumblefoot recorded over Buckethead's guitar on that song, referred to it as Soul Monster back then, so I expect it was quite amazing. Brodie was believed to be the Chinese Democracy mod L!VE FREE, who was widely believed to possess numerous songs that have yet to leak in the form of the versions he had, if at all depending on the song. I know he had at least one mix of Leave Me Alone (working title for Soul Monster, as I'm sure you know) Oh My God, Silkworms, The General (he described it accurate to what we now know how it sounds like today, several years ago) and other, earlier songs. @Brodie also said there are a lot more "completed" songs than most believed, and this was post-CD. (After 2008) I wish he was still around, he is believed to no longer be with us, and if so, may be Rest In Peace.

Hopefully one day we will hear it, either by leak or an official version as bonus content, remix, etc. 

I doubt that original Monsters' riff/lead guitar was Bumblefoot. Didn't sound like him and he didn't rerecord much of the main riffs on CD like this (and there wasn't much of it in that record). Did you ever have the chance to hear the version I did trying to recreate the phone recording version?

Also, what did Brodie say about The General that you think it was accurate? Because if he had access to both Soul Monster and The General, he would be aware about what the phone recording leak actually was when nobody else did.

[Sweersa]

8 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

I doubt that original Monsters' riff/lead guitar was Bumblefoot. Didn't sound like him and he didn't rerecord much of the main riffs on CD like this (and there wasn't much of it in that record). Did you ever have the chance to hear the version I did trying to recreate the phone recording version?

Also, what did Brodie say about The General that you think it was accurate? Because if he had access to both Soul Monster and The General, he would be aware about what the phone recording leak actually was when nobody else did.

I heard a clip of your guitar playing, if there is a full version of that for that song, I'd love to hear it. You played the lead exactly as I hear it from the 2010 party recording. Goosebumps inducing version, thank you for that.

As for Brodie, I believe this was from from the Leak Hunters document that leaked. (Ironically) 

LIVE FREE/the_L/Chickendinner/Broadie Hitman is/was friends with him brodie.william@ymail.com 4/24/11 In reply to me asking what he has

"The General, Silkworms, Oh My God, amongst others." 4/25/11

In reply to me asking what the general sounds like/lyrics etc

"Certainly understandable and reasonable wanting proof. I've always had a de facto no-lyric policy to prevent people from fishing which I can't really go back on. If you've heard it then you'd know it's a midtempo song similar to "Sorry" and not balls-to-thewall like many have hoped. More simple structure and not overloaded with bullshit. Definite traces of Sabbath (and Floyd) in it. Short controlled bursts of rock rather than hit you over the head style. Hopefully that suffices, you seem like a good guy, but rules are rules. I understand the precarious situation so hopefully you understand mine. If you don't feel good about moving forward then maybe we could get together and hang out at a later time when work is more manageable for me." and "I live in LA/Malibu. Not really a fan of phones. Mixes business with pleasure giving out #s, etc. The audio quality is garbage too and people can just record it, say they're not interested and then do whatever with it. I'd rather we just get it done tonight or hold off till later." 4/25/11

-B

[Uncle Bob]

2 hours ago, Sweersa said:

and "I live in LA/Malibu.

Axl?

[gavgnr]

Sounds to me like Live Free had it. RIP brother

[jacdaniel]

The General doesn’t sound anything at all like Sabbath or Floyd. It also is overloaded with bullshit…

[gavgnr]

1 hour ago, jacdaniel said:

The General doesn’t sound anything at all like Sabbath or Floyd. It also is overloaded with bullshit…

He was talking about Monsters, at the time thought to be the General.

[Sweersa]

2 hours ago, gavgnr said:

He was talking about Monsters, at the time thought to be the General.

L!VE FREE also claimed to have Leave Me Alone, which he later referred to as Soul Monster. I believe he knew they were different songs.

I don't know if "The General" 2010 clip circulated then, he may have died/disappeared prior to that, I would have imagined he would have settled any confusion then.

[Sweersa]

23 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

Because if he had access to both Soul Monster and The General, he would be aware about what the phone recording leak actually was when nobody else did.

I forgot to address this-- it's possible he disappeared/passed away before the phone recording circulated and was widely discussed/known to us. 

[Voodoochild]

14 hours ago, Sweersa said:

I heard a clip of your guitar playing, if there is a full version of that for that song, I'd love to hear it. You played the lead exactly as I hear it from the 2010 party recording. Goosebumps inducing version, thank you for that.

As for Brodie, I believe this was from from the Leak Hunters document that leaked. (Ironically) 

LIVE FREE/the_L/Chickendinner/Broadie Hitman is/was friends with him brodie.william@ymail.com 4/24/11 In reply to me asking what he has

"The General, Silkworms, Oh My God, amongst others." 4/25/11

In reply to me asking what the general sounds like/lyrics etc

"Certainly understandable and reasonable wanting proof. I've always had a de facto no-lyric policy to prevent people from fishing which I can't really go back on. If you've heard it then you'd know it's a midtempo song similar to "Sorry" and not balls-to-thewall like many have hoped. More simple structure and not overloaded with bullshit. Definite traces of Sabbath (and Floyd) in it. Short controlled bursts of rock rather than hit you over the head style. Hopefully that suffices, you seem like a good guy, but rules are rules. I understand the precarious situation so hopefully you understand mine. If you don't feel good about moving forward then maybe we could get together and hang out at a later time when work is more manageable for me." and "I live in LA/Malibu. Not really a fan of phones. Mixes business with pleasure giving out #s, etc. The audio quality is garbage too and people can just record it, say they're not interested and then do whatever with it. I'd rather we just get it done tonight or hold off till later." 4/25/11

-B

Interesting. But still a bit generic way to describe it. Thanks for the quote. 

I don't have the rest of Monsters as it would need me to just create stuff instead of trying to replicate. Which is fine, I did it with Crash Diet trying to emulate both Robin and Bucket, but I'm not sure if people would be interested on something like this to be honest.

4 hours ago, jacdaniel said:

The General doesn’t sound anything at all like Sabbath or Floyd. It also is overloaded with bullshit…

Maybe it was with the original arrangement. And I took the "overloaded with bullshit" comment as not having too much electronic and layered guitars going on like Madagascar. The arrangement in the slower parts could be more like Sorry (hence why the Pink Floyd comparison). But I don't know. Like I said, it was too generic to really set in stone anything.

[colonizedmind]

On 5/24/2024 at 8:12 PM, Sweersa said:

It would be amazing! From what we hear from the 2010 party recording, it sounds very different too from what is expected to be the final NITL version. The backing vocals sound higher in the mix from the 2010 recording, perhaps then maybe the song didn't have the full vocal take the 2023 leak has. Still, it would be worth hearing the amazing instrumental with whatever vocals they had done then (if not complete). 

I have a feeling the guitar we heard from that version is Robin or Buckethead, but since it was from 2010, it could have been Bumblefoot as he stated he recorded on several songs that were not on the 2008 album, which we also know from a handful of leaks. 

A member here @Brodie years ago said something to the effect of he would kill babies if Bumblefoot recorded over Buckethead's guitar on that song, referred to it as Soul Monster back then, so I expect it was quite amazing. Brodie was believed to be the Chinese Democracy mod L!VE FREE, who was widely believed to possess numerous songs that have yet to leak in the form of the versions he had, if at all depending on the song. I know he had at least one mix of Leave Me Alone (working title for Soul Monster, as I'm sure you know) Oh My God, Silkworms, The General (he described it accurate to what we now know how it sounds like today, several years ago) and other, earlier songs. @Brodie also said there are a lot more "completed" songs than most believed, and this was post-CD. (After 2008) I wish he was still around, he is believed to no longer be with us, and if so, may be Rest In Peace.

Hopefully one day we will hear it, either by leak or an official version as bonus content, remix, etc. 

You must have cat like hearing...I just listened to it again with great headphones and other than the bridge and the instrumental, I can barely differentiate between the loud talking/crowd noise...how can you be so matter-of-fact about it sounding so radically different? In fact the bit pre bridge sounds exactly like what leaked last year by my book and ears 🤷

[Sweersa]

1 hour ago, Voodoochild said:

Interesting. But still a bit generic way to describe it. Thanks for the quote. 

I don't have the rest of Monsters as it would need me to just create stuff instead of trying to replicate. Which is fine, I did it with Crash Diet trying to emulate both Robin and Bucket, but I'm not sure if people would be interested on something like this to be honest.

Maybe it was with the original arrangement. And I took the "overloaded with bullshit" comment as not having too much electronic and layered guitars going on like Madagascar. The arrangement in the slower parts could be more like Sorry (hence why the Pink Floyd comparison). But I don't know. Like I said, it was too generic to really set in stone anything.

I believe the vocal takes from Monsters and The General to be recorded around the same time (if not the same sessions) as Scraped and Sorry, which makes sense as these are Buckethead songs. Axl sounds similar between these songs, compared to how he sounds on Atlas, Catcher, The Blues, Hardschool, etc. "sorry" is even in the lyrics in both Sorry (no surprise) and The General, so maybe that was a funny nod from Brodie, or a coincidence. 

[Sweersa]

2 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

You must have cat like hearing...I just listened to it again with great headphones and other than the bridge and the instrumental, I can barely differentiate between the loud talking/crowd noise...how can you be so matter-of-fact about it sounding so radically different? In fact the bit pre bridge sounds exactly like what leaked last year by my book and ears 🤷

I have a few different fan-enhanced versions of the party recording that bring forward stuff that is more difficult to hear in the original. I was one of a few to believe (and now it's a realization) that the Axl bits that repeat "ooooooooo....oooooooo" is in fact that, and not actual words like everyone thought with him saying shit like "who would do this, to you...." when he never said anything at all aside from "oooooo...oooooo", it was kept as backing vocals in Monsters, and sounds exactly as I heard it in the 2010 recording, they just sound significantly higher in the mix from the 2010 recording, so maybe they were placeholder for leads, but I can also hear Axl singing something in a lower tone before the screaming bridge, but can't make out what it is. It's probably the "Monsters can't have me" bits but my hearing isn't good enough to be definitive on that. 

Voodoochild's playing is EXACTLY as I hear the lead guitar from that clip, strikingly so. It's such a shame the band seemingly scrapped that, what are they thinking? They need to put it out as bonus content someday, along with the rest of the CD songs in their original form with Bucket and Robin. (No one really seems to care about the Bumblefoot versions, but I'd take those over nothing, and those versions probably still have Robin and Bucket present in part or whole, depending on the song. )

[colonizedmind]

4 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

I have a few different fan-enhanced versions of the party recording that bring forward stuff that is more difficult to hear in the original. I was one of a few to believe (and now it's a realization) that the Axl bits that repeat "ooooooooo....oooooooo" is in fact that, and not actual words like everyone thought with him saying shit like "who would do this, to you...." when he never said anything at all aside from "oooooo...oooooo", it was kept as backing vocals in Monsters, and sounds exactly as I heard it in the 2010 recording, they just sound significantly higher in the mix from the 2010 recording, so maybe they were placeholder for leads, but I can also hear Axl singing something in a lower tone before the screaming bridge, but can't make out what it is. It's probably the "Monsters can't have me" bits but my hearing isn't good enough to be definitive on that. 

Voodoochild's playing is EXACTLY as I hear the lead guitar from that clip, strikingly so. It's such a shame the band seemingly scrapped that, what are they thinking? They need to put it out as bonus content someday, along with the rest of the CD songs in their original form with Bucket and Robin. (No one really seems to care about the Bumblefoot versions, but I'd take those over nothing, and those versions probably still have Robin and Bucket present in part or whole, depending on the song. )

You're not talking about Evader's mix are you? As that's a fan made redesign....

[Voodoochild]

14 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

I believe the vocal takes from Monsters and The General to be recorded around the same time (if not the same sessions) as Scraped and Sorry, which makes sense as these are Buckethead songs. Axl sounds similar between these songs, compared to how he sounds on Atlas, Catcher, The Blues, Hardschool, etc. "sorry" is even in the lyrics in both Sorry (no surprise) and The General, so maybe that was a funny nod from Brodie, or a coincidence. 

Are we sure that Monsters is a Bucket song? Somehow I had the impression that it was from before he joined, but I'm not sure why I thought that. 

2 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

You're not talking about Evader's mix are you? As that's a fan made redesign....

I believe he's talking about what I did, trying to emulate what I could hear from that shitty recording. Try to listen to this version I made and then listen to that cell phone recording again. 

https://we.tl/t-D66GYHZ4Lz

[colonizedmind]

4 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Are we sure that Monsters is a Bucket song? Somehow I had the impression that it was from before he joined, but I'm not sure why I thought that. 

I believe he's talking about what I did, trying to emulate what I could hear from that shitty recording. Try to listen to this version I made and then listen to that cell phone recording again. 

https://we.tl/t-D66GYHZ4Lz

Yea, I've listened to your version before...great player....but I do think there's an element of imagination of where the playing is going, as oppose to truly being able to say, I can hear what they're playing  accurately on that shiity clip and recreating it, cleaned up or not...my opinion. Cool to try though. Hopefully one day it will leak and we can see for real, somebody must have it outside of Team Brazil and Axl! I honestly don't think it will be radically different, a little change here or there I suspect.

I am intrigued by the comments on this (possible) dead insider fan that said there's far more finished material than we currently know of ...how creditable was this dude? Do we have other proved right situations other than General description that could be neither here nor there...I don't know why he couldn't offer a line of lyric, if he truly did have it...much more proof worthy if true.

Did he have association with the band at all? How would he have these kinda tracks otherwise....especially the really rare stuff like this that never really leaked...General.

[Sweersa]

46 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

You're not talking about Evader's mix are you? As that's a fan made redesign....

No. 

[Voodoochild]

29 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

Yea, I've listened to your version before...great player....but I do think there's an element of imagination of where the playing is going, as oppose to truly being able to say, I can hear what they're playing  accurately on that shiity clip and recreating it, cleaned up or not...my opinion. Cool to try though. Hopefully one day it will leak and we can see for real, somebody must have it outside of Team Brazil and Axl! I honestly don't think it will be radically different, a little change here or there I suspect.

I am intrigued by the comments on this (possible) dead insider fan that said there's far more finished material than we currently know of ...how creditable was this dude? Do we have other proved right situations other than General description that could be neither here nor there...I don't know why he couldn't offer a line of lyric, if he truly did have it...much more proof worthy if true.

Did he have association with the band at all? How would he have these kinda tracks otherwise....especially the really rare stuff like this that never really leaked...General.

Thanks. But with all due respect, it wasn't really imagination from my part. I can actually hear that in that cell phone recording. What I had to actually do was to figure out some rhythm guitars because I recorded two and had to differentiate it a bit from each other. And I couldn't really hear Stinson's bass very well, so I just used Duff's rerecording. Still, as far as guitar arrangement, it's exactly what I hear in it.