"Shallow" early demo with Axl?

[Dani_1455]

Hi!

I don't know if this has been posted or discussed before but I saw a few days ago which is appearently a rare demo called Shallow with appearently Axl on It.

For me it sounds as his RapidFire vocals but don't know if someone has any more information, thanks in advance!

[Blackstar]

It has been discussed before. Sounds fake to me.

[Rindmelon]

This crops up every now and then, no idea if it's real or not. Heard 2 and a half tracks last year that are allegedly from the same tape (who knows if they are or not). The other songs had what sounded like they had more than one guitar player, which pretty much counts out Rapidfire as an option. & they may well not be Axl at all. One song has a few words that can be picked out 'Angel' 'I'm Suicide' They sound like they were recorded in a club but with no crowd.

Just had a listen for the first time in ages and i'm pretty sure it's not Axl but here, you decide

https://mega.nz/folder/QOs0hYxC#u7A3D0X_AgAmcty7VlUNGg

I'll remove the link if mods want but i'm pretty sure I'm not sharing Unreleased GN'R stuff here (or even Axl)

Also I should mention that while the bit rate says 320 kbps it is a lot lower than that in reality, you can see that by running it through Spek. You can also see that the results you get seem the same for all 3 tracks in term of quality. Which does at least suggest they probably did come from the same tape, if the original un messed with rip of the Shallow song matches as well then I would say that's a pretty big clue that they are from the same place but tbh I never bothered checking, more of a CD era guy.

Edited January 22 by Rindmelon

[BucketEgg]

yes, i was the one that made this thread earlier

the "rarity" of this tape has been bugging me

the uploader of the tape on youtube says it's from summer 1985, but what tracks were on summer 1985 bootlegs has been written down, and no one mentions the songs on those bootlegs sounding like the ones on the mystery tape, so i'm guessing whoever labelled the mystery tape mislabeled it, or it was for another band

someone on evo said they've seen it before, bundled with another thing

i tried looking for bootlegs, seeing if anyone out there mentions anything like Shallow being bundled along with it. I've seen "Your Looks Are Gone" as the other not-GNR track bundled with GnR, but I'm having difficulty finding any references to something like Shallow, which is a longish song with complete lyrics. I tried looking at usenet archives, but I haven't seen anyone mention anything like Shallow yet.

Using the Shazam app on any of the songs on the tape (something that's pretty good at identifying songs based on audio) turns up nothing.

One of the songs on the tape resembles Welcome to the Jungle and ends with "You're gonna die", so I don't know if this is a band that came later that was inspired by Guns N Roses, or a coincidence, but if it's an early version, it wouldn't be in line with what's been said about WTTJ's origins, because it doesn't mention "jungle" or life in the city much in the lyrics, when pages like this mention the "jungle"  and life in the city aspect as an important part of the song's origin https://www.a-4-d.com/t72-welcome-to-the-jungle . There's a line in the song that sounds like "you're turning 21"

so if we add 21 onto Axl's birth year (1962), that would make 1983. But that would place it too early, into the Rapidfire days, and Rindmelon says the presence of multiple guitars counts it out of Rapidfire. And the "turning 21" line might not have any relation to real life anyway, and could be just a line for the song.

i've had no luck in trying to find any other people that mention copies of the song in an attempt to find the origin and time it was from.

Edited January 22 by BucketEgg
added video of "turning 21" line + spelling

[Rindmelon]

@kevinb or @troccoli would probably know best. I do remember reading somewhere that the Shallow song was played to Traci Guns who said it wasn't GN'R though

[BucketEgg]

28 minutes ago, Rindmelon said:

@kevinb or @troccoli would probably know best. I do remember reading somewhere that the Shallow song was played to Traci Guns who said it wasn't GN'R though

Was that about Your Looks are Gone, or Shallow? I remember Tracii denying Your Looks Are Gone https://old.reddit.com/r/Lostwave/comments/ovec3m/unknown_80s_glam_rock_song_your_looks_are_gone/  

if he denied Shallow as well, maybe I will look for that quote sometime

Edited January 22 by BucketEgg

[Rindmelon]

5 hours ago, BucketEgg said:

Was that about Your Looks are Gone, or Shallow? I remember Tracii denying Your Looks Are Gone https://old.reddit.com/r/Lostwave/comments/ovec3m/unknown_80s_glam_rock_song_your_looks_are_gone/  

if he denied Shallow as well, maybe I will look for that quote sometime

That i'm not sure, i'm probably conflating the two.

[AxlSlashthebest]

6 hours ago, BucketEgg said:

 

sound pretty pretty good !!!

 

[vloors]

Since you guys are discussing old hollywood rose stuff. Does anyone know if the full set performance of this is out there? Heres part of shadow and part of anything goes. No idea what else there was performed but it was filmed outside in a garden lol

 

Edited January 22 by vloors

[vloors]

6 hours ago, BucketEgg said:

Was that about Your Looks are Gone, or Shallow? I remember Tracii denying Your Looks Are Gone https://old.reddit.com/r/Lostwave/comments/ovec3m/unknown_80s_glam_rock_song_your_looks_are_gone/  

if he denied Shallow as well, maybe I will look for that quote sometime

Your Looks are Gone doesnt sound like Axl to me but Shallow does.

[Dani_1455]

I would certainly say that Shallow is Axl's voice, I'm 99% sure, not the one from AFD an earlier voice, it is so similar to not be him

[NachoLZ]

He sings the Lady Gaga part? 

[DK6]

It sounds fake to me but I actually quite like the song!

[troccoli]

On 1/21/2024 at 10:13 PM, Rindmelon said:

@kevinb or @troccoli would probably know best. I do remember reading somewhere that the Shallow song was played to Traci Guns who said it wasn't GN'R though

Sorry, no idea. Never heard it or heard about it until today.

[Rindmelon]

8 hours ago, troccoli said:

Sorry, no idea. Never heard it or heard about it until today.

Something new for you to search for then 

[Tyson]

I recently came across this song as well and I'm equally as curious as to its origins.  If I HAD to guess, I'd say it isn't GnR, but that hauntingly beautiful melody throughout the song is something that only Axl could come up with.  I can't stop listening to it.  

[The Real McCoy]

I just heard this for the first time the other day. Sounds like Axl, but I’d be shocked to see something “new” from those days pop out of nowhere like this. 

The quality on the live version of Your Looks Are Gone that’s been circulating since the Napster days is so terrible that it’s impossible to tell if it’s Axl or not, but I’d lean no on that one.

[CAFC Nick]

Definitely sounds like Axl to me

[BucketEgg]

Around a month ago, the uploader for Shallow wrote in reply to one of the comments:

 

Si ho letto i suoi commenti ma ti assicuro che questo tizio, Billie Barber, non c'entra niente. Il cantante è probabilmente Axl ma non credo con la formazione tipo. La cassetta la trovai tanti anni fa a Los Angeles in un buco di negozio che aveva vinili e cassette d'epoca....comprai una scatola con una cinquantina di cassette, un mix di cassette registrate ed originali. Tra queste ce n'era una con una scritta quasi illeggibile "Guns L.A. Troubadour '85 o '87"

 

Yes I read his comments but I assure you that this guy, Billie Barber, had nothing to do with it. The singer is probably Axl but I don't think with the typical lineup. I found the cassette many years ago in Los Angeles in a hole-in-the-wall shop that had vintage vinyl and cassettes....I bought a box with about fifty cassettes, a mix of recorded and original cassettes. Among these there was one with an almost illegible writing "Guns L.A. Troubadour '85 or '87"

 

The part where "Guns" or "87" is mentioned, hadn't been mentioned earlier. The other details of the story had been mentioned earlier.

If what's written is true, now I'm wondering if the tape means "LA Troubadour", or "Guns L.A", and the person writing it down reversed it from LA Guns. I wish there was a photo of the tape.

Edited June 17 by BucketEgg

[lunastar]

1 hour ago, BucketEgg said:

Около месяца назад пользователь Shallow написал в ответ на один из комментариев:

 

Когда я писал и писал свои комментарии, ты помогаешь мне, Билли Барбер, не в центре внимания. Певец, скорее всего, Эксл не верит в типоформирование. Кассета-ла-троваи в прошлом году в Лос-Анджелесе в торговом центре, где была виниловая пластинка и кассета эпохи....Купите одну пластинку с пятью кассетами, миксом зарегистрированных кассет и оригинальными. Tra queste ce n'era una con una scritta квази неразборчиво "Guns LA Troubadour '85 o '87"

 

Да, я читал его комментарии, но уверяю вас, что этот парень, Билли Барбер, не имеет к этому никакого отношения. Певец, вероятно, Эксл, но я не думаю, что это типичный состав. Я нашел кассету много лет назад в Лос-Анджелесе в магазинчике, где продавались винтажные винилы и кассеты... Я купил коробку с примерно пятьюдесятью кассетами, смесью записанных и оригинальных кассет. Среди них был один с почти неразборчивой надписью «Guns LA Troubadour '85 или '87».

 

Та часть, где упоминаются «Guns» или «87», ранее не упоминалась. Другие подробности истории уже упоминались ранее.

Если то, что написано, правда, то теперь мне интересно, означает ли эта лента «LA Troubadour» или «Guns LA», а человек, записывавший ее, перевернул ее с «LA Guns». Хотелось бы фото ленты.

Razkue wrote on his website that Izzy had written several songs for LA Guns. But he doesn't reveal any more details. If there's LA Guns signature here, maybe it's the real thing. It is somewhat reminiscent of Don't Cry. The fact that Izzy wrote "beautiful melodies" was said by eyewitnesses of those years. If this is not a fake, this song probably has a lot of difficulties in the field of copyright.

[Amir]

Doesn't sound like Axl to me.

[BucketEgg]

On 6/18/2024 at 7:50 AM, lunastar said:

Razkue wrote on his website that Izzy had written several songs for LA Guns. But he doesn't reveal any more details. If there's LA Guns signature here, maybe it's the real thing. It is somewhat reminiscent of Don't Cry. The fact that Izzy wrote "beautiful melodies" was said by eyewitnesses of those years. If this is not a fake, this song probably has a lot of difficulties in the field of copyright.

If the tracks couldn't be officially released due to them being caught in some sort of legal issues, that'd make sense. It'd be nice if someone out there really wandered onto a tape of obscure Izzy-written bootlegs.

 

 

...

With the uploader now making public again the full tape they uploaded in 2020, the tape gets stranger. There's still the same 4 tracks, except track 2 isn't 1:51 long, it's around 6:50 long. I also think it has a slight resemblance to Civil War in terms of song structure (mellow parts, and screechy parts), and from the lyrics I could make out.

So that's three songs on one mystery tape that have at least a slight resemblance to existing Guns N Roses tracks.

The tape has:
- The song at the start
- Not Civil War
- Not Welcome To The Jungle
- Not Don't Cry.

And the timing of it too, is another big confusing part.

According to the When GN'R Songs Were Madechart in this thread here,

There's no overlap between when Welcome To The Jungle/Don't Cry and when Civil War was written. So there cannot be an non-final version of Welcome to the Jungle/Don't cry, and an early version of Civil War on the same tape. And the chart says the beginning of Civil War was in 1988, so that's too late for what the tape is labelled with, if it was only labelled with "'85 or '87".

But I don't believe that it could be GnR beginning Civil War at a later date than labelled either, because why would they be making knock-off versions of their own tracks, especially with Not-WTTJ also having the "You're going to die" line?

The mystery tape makes no sense!

 

Whoever wrote the songs seems morbid. From what I can make out from the lyrics,

First song contains: And I don't ??? to die!

Second song contains, "See the child die for freedom" near the start. "To let us die!" during the chorus. Ends with, "Time will wait not for you."

Third song ends with "You're gonna die! You're gonna diiiiiiiiieeeeeeeee!"

Fourth song: "And kill myself"

The mystery tape is mildly creepy with that aspect.

Even if it's not Guns N Roses, it means somewhere out there, there could be a depressed guy with a band trying to mimic Guns N Roses. But it would be too early to mimic Civil War if at latest, the tape was made in 1987. (Though the second track doesn't necessarily have to be connected to Civil War, since its resemblance is slight.)

 

Edited June 19 by BucketEgg

[daub]

A very interesting song

Edited July 11 by daub