Shallow song .. A possible explanation (could be by Stuart Bailey)

[BucketEgg]

if Axl sung these, do you think he even remembers these songs?

[Rindmelon]

10 minutes ago, BucketEgg said:

if Axl sung these, do you think he even remembers these songs?

No idea, but didn't Izzy say Axl used to write everything down? he probably has a record of it somewhere if it's him, probably in Iron Mountain 

[BucketEgg]

On 6/21/2024 at 4:54 AM, Rindmelon said:

Not that i'm aware of. I do know that Jeff Powel was a member of Dr Whisky and that he died. This is the only studio version of a song by Dr Whisky that I know for a fact is actually them.. Stuart is on vocals & this was posted to Monasterio's Youtube channel. there is however live footage up on the channel too but thats of The Assassins

 

Again, with all the "dying"!

I talked about it in this post,

 

the Shallow tape demo has references to death in all 4 songs.

And then that Dr Whiskey track is full of "Gonna die like a dog in the dirt!"

Someone that appears to be Michael Lee in the comments says Stuart wrote the lyrics for that video.

 

Yeah , These guys were the real shit , Hollywood's Sunset Strip -- Mick Rocks on drums . Stuart wrote great lyrics -------- R.I.P. Jeff we miss you ! thanks for posting the video. ... Mikl'Le ,,Yes, "that was the scientology building xxx :-)"

 

Morbid bunch of rockers!

[BucketEgg]

I want to soak in how absurd this situation is.

This band has its history extremely well documented. Their shows, when songs were made, even the bootlegs are documented.

Then this tape shows out of nowhere, no one knows enough about it to say exactly what it is, it hasn't been documented previously, it contains 4 original songs with instrumentals, 3 of them vaguely sound like existing songs we know but are different enough to be considered their own songs, and the singer sounds like Axl Rose of all people, when not many people can copy his singing voice. The tape is vague enough that the exact time it was made and whether it was mislabeled is hard to determine. And one of the songs is popular and liked enough that people are questioning why it doesn't seem to have been released before in any official way.

Is there any other band in the world that has this combination of being extremely well documented and having a bootleg that doesn't seem to fit into any documented timeline appear out of nowhere?

This sort of mystery may be the last of its kind in the history of humanity. Especially since these songs were found on physical media, which isn't as popular for demos nowadays. Not because it can't possibly happen in the future, but because next time it happens, no one will believe it since AI voice cloning exists now. It's the last mystery of its kind before AI voice cloning.

And the one person who can confirm or deny if it's him singing on the tape? Axl?
Unlike many other musicians who are very present online, he's very hard to reach.
His team, who may watch the boards to see if leaks are spreading most likely already know about this tape being uploaded online and have alerted him. Maybe the other GNR members know about the tape and have asked him. But is Axl ever going to confirm or deny it's him on the tape to the public? If he cares about it at all, I bet he finds it funny he's the one person that can solve the mystery, but he's not going to. Why would he? Unless he wants to capitalize off the most popular song, but that's even assuming he has the rights to it, or even wants to bother.

 

[Rindmelon]

@BucketEgg Maybe it's the band he had for a bit that was just called A.X.L, if it is him then the only other option i can think of is an early L.A Guns band practice, there's no way it's Rapidfire

[BucketEgg]

On 7/4/2024 at 4:02 PM, Rindmelon said:

@BucketEgg Maybe it's the band he had for a bit that was just called A.X.L, if it is him then the only other option i can think of is an early L.A Guns band practice, there's no way it's Rapidfire

Yeah, if it's Axl, it has to be in one of those eras where the documentation was much more sparse.

"So Axl sang with LA Guns for a little while and I think he did some recordings"

and the thread also mentions unknown L.A Guns titles, but they don't seem to correspond to the songs on the tape.

 

It might also be one of those recordings of "Rose", that's listed in the 1984 section.

https://gnrontour.com/

 

It might not be listed anywhere at all. The uploader mentions it's a live recording, but there's no audience sound, so there wouldn't really be any recorded advertisement for tickets when the tape was made.

 

Edit: Tried emailing the gnrontour webmaster. Email address no longer works. The copyright for the website also hasn't updated. If John M is no longer involved with the site, I hope he's alive and well somewhere.

 

Edited July 9 by BucketEgg

[BucketEgg]

On 6/19/2024 at 7:10 AM, Rindmelon said:

Please move this if not right section but last year I went down the rabbit hole with this a bit and figured I would share what I found.... I'm only posting it in GN'R section as it involves a song people think may be GN'R

I found a reference to a band called The Assassins in an old copy of Kerrang from 94. Axl had held a band showcase at the Troubadour to try and get a few bands signed when he was trying to get UZI suicide back off the ground. 
Stuart Bailey Axl's half brother was a guitar player in that band. I looked into them and found a Soundcloud account by there drummer Michael Monasterio & also a Youtube channel. 

There demo's have been sitting on Soundcloud for about 12 years. I didn't know about them until last year. Nowhere do they push that Stuart is Axl's brother at all, there are literally no comments on the tracks and they don't have many listens. I only found them because I found the showcase story with the band name Assassins in that old Kerrang. I checked with @Blackstar who knew about the Kerrang article, but had not heard the demo's.

I listened through his tracks and this one stood out straight away as being a bit familiar.

Obviously the vocals are different but that opening guitar part is very close to my ears. A similar pattern played on a different part of the guitar neck but related. It sounds like the Shalala/Shallow thing could be an early version of what that Assassins track turned into.

 

Not many believe that song is gn'r (I don't either) but i think there is a chance that it's Axl helping his half brother/assistant out by trying to shadow write and demo an idea with him. Stuart was an assistant/ gopher to Axl back in these days (so they were around each other a lot) and if he was trying to get his own band off the ground I expect Axl would have helped him, we know he did in 1994 later on, so why not earlier? I don't expect anyone to actually agree with me on this btw, just thought I'd throw it out there to see if you guys hear any similarities at all.

 

 

Below is another mention of the band

https://www.a-4-d.com/t3068-1994-11-dd-raw-magazine-four-bust-ups-and-a-single
'The Assassins are also close to inking a deal, and can expect a huge amount of publicity when they do sign, as they feature Axl's brother Stuart Bailey on guitar. Bailey was previously best-known as a vocalist with Dr. Whiskey. The Assassins' music, which Bailey has a hand in writing, is in the currently hot Southern Rock vein being pursued by the likes of Pride & Glory, and on the softer side, Blind Melon (another band Axl has helped out).'

I tried to contact Michael Monasterio, but he found he died in 2013. 

It turns out when he was 20 he got a young girl pregnant and the baby she had turned out to be the actress Jessica Chastain who is in movies like Interstellar and Zero Dark Thirty, although it seems she pretty much pretends he didn't exist. Which is an odd twist to the whole thing.
 

Here is a link to the Assassins Soundcloud page 

 

I originally thought that Track 3 was just another cheesy love song, but now I realize there's nothing about the lyrics that make it romantic. It could be a cute song about a girl, or equally about how much he loves his brother, who really does have high dreams.

"Don't they try to make you feel much older than you are?"

"Don't they always tell you now, that your dream's gone a little too far?"

"Don't you know I believe in you"

"Deep inside, I know you're hungry and you're lonely, so I know just how you feel"

"And when you do that funky dance, it's always your own, so I know that you know what's real."

"Even in a crowded room, I feel alone. Nothing 'hind a door, that I can call my home. Solitary games, made me want to cry,

Looking at you makes me want to try"

Edited July 9 by BucketEgg

[daub]

Is this bootleg with recordings in mp3 format available somewhere?

[daub]

A very interesting song

[ZoSoRose]

God damn, that song is Axl. 

[daub]

I'm not sure, but the voice is very similar

[Rindmelon]

On 6/28/2024 at 6:40 PM, Rindmelon said:

@BucketEgg was going to PM you this but maybe others can give there opinion too, Isolated vocal clip from the 80's tape, slowed down a little to try and make it easier to understand.

'Why'd you stay alone? Baby now they know
You fight to decide, will you live or die?' to my ears anyway

When I get round to it i'll see if I can do this with the rest of the song/ songs and isolate the vocals. Sonically it should be easier with shallow possibly not the others

[ZoSoRose]

Shallow is definitely Axl and I agree that this is a crazy cool find. I’ve never heard it or knew it existed. Unsure if it is GNR, but it is a super cool song. Wow

[BucketEgg]

 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/guns-roses-slash-personal-1985-2051366066

"An original Guns N' Roses demo tape from 1985. Slash has written "Guns & Roses Demo 85" in blue ballpoint pen on the cassette insert as well as hand-drawn a gun and roses. Very good condition. The tape contains rare and unreleased recordings. Comes with a Gotta Have Rock & Roll™ Certificate of Authenticity."

 

 

https://www.gottahaverockandroll.com/guns-n-roses--slash-personal-1985-original-demo-t-lot11807.aspx

 

And there's no other info. Enjoy the drawings by Slash though.

 

 

Edited July 12 by BucketEgg

[Ratam]

6 hours ago, BucketEgg said:

 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/guns-roses-slash-personal-1985-2051366066

"An original Guns N' Roses demo tape from 1985. Slash has written "Guns & Roses Demo 85" in blue ballpoint pen on the cassette insert as well as hand-drawn a gun and roses. Very good condition. The tape contains rare and unreleased recordings. Comes with a Gotta Have Rock & Roll™ Certificate of Authenticity."

 

 

https://www.gottahaverockandroll.com/guns-n-roses--slash-personal-1985-original-demo-t-lot11807.aspx

 

And there's no other info. Enjoy the drawings by Slash though.

 

 

It draw look very childish, but i guess has value just cause is Slash.

[Rindmelon]

6 hours ago, BucketEgg said:

 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/guns-roses-slash-personal-1985-2051366066

"An original Guns N' Roses demo tape from 1985. Slash has written "Guns & Roses Demo 85" in blue ballpoint pen on the cassette insert as well as hand-drawn a gun and roses. Very good condition. The tape contains rare and unreleased recordings. Comes with a Gotta Have Rock & Roll™ Certificate of Authenticity."

 

 

https://www.gottahaverockandroll.com/guns-n-roses--slash-personal-1985-original-demo-t-lot11807.aspx

 

And there's no other info. Enjoy the drawings by Slash though.

 

 

wonder what was on this. Sold in 2013 @troccoli Did you buy it?

[troccoli]

23 hours ago, Rindmelon said:

wonder what was on this. Sold in 2013 @troccoli Did you buy it?

I did not buy that. But I do remember it. I thought it was not legitimate so I passed.

[Rindmelon]

2 hours ago, troccoli said:

I did not buy that. But I do remember it. I thought it was not legitimate so I passed.

Thanks, I wonder if it was just a copy of the Mystic studio's stuff.

[BucketEgg]

On 7/13/2024 at 4:07 AM, BucketEgg said:

 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/guns-roses-slash-personal-1985-2051366066

"An original Guns N' Roses demo tape from 1985. Slash has written "Guns & Roses Demo 85" in blue ballpoint pen on the cassette insert as well as hand-drawn a gun and roses. Very good condition. The tape contains rare and unreleased recordings. Comes with a Gotta Have Rock & Roll™ Certificate of Authenticity."

 

 

https://www.gottahaverockandroll.com/guns-n-roses--slash-personal-1985-original-demo-t-lot11807.aspx

 

And there's no other info. Enjoy the drawings by Slash though.

 

 

An interesting thing to note is that the handwriting for Slash's tape doesn't seem to match Slash's.

See he how writes his Gs.

The tape may have been in Slash's possession at one point, but he might not have written the label. Perhaps someone gifted it to him.

There's differences from Izzy's handwritng, 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/guns-roses-izzy-stradlin-demo-tape-1873687489

 

and there's differences from Axl's handwriting, even before he started writing his Es like he does. The G doesn't match.

 

 

Edited July 14 by BucketEgg
fixed izzy pic

[The Matinator]

Finally giving this song a listen, I'm pretty sure that's not Axl gang. My first thought was that it was a demo by an undiscovered 90s band & looking through the youtube comments there's a guy who's claiming it's his buddies from Portland & recorded in '93. That's a lot more believable than it being an unreleased GNR demo we've never heard of.

[BucketEgg]

40 minutes ago, The Matinator said:

Finally giving this song a listen, I'm pretty sure that's not Axl gang. My first thought was that it was a demo by an undiscovered 90s band & looking through the youtube comments there's a guy who's claiming it's his buddies from Portland & recorded in '93. That's a lot more believable than it being an unreleased GNR demo we've never heard of.

 

It could explain why the three of the tracks sound familiar to existing Guns N Roses tracks, and why the second track has similarities to Civil War when it'd be too early in the Guns N Roses timeline.

But the guy saying it's Billy Barber has been claiming this for months, claims he has proof and footage, yet never follows up on it after months, and after people have requested for it. He only posts about it on reuploads of Shallow instead of any of the other three songs that are less popular and less liked. That Youtube account was made in 2021, one year after Shallow was uploaded, and could be an account made specifically to troll. If you search for Billy Barber, BJ O'Connor, Jamie, or any of the other names he mentons on discogs, nothing comes up, so this band must be extremely obscure if it ever existed.

[The Matinator]

7 minutes ago, BucketEgg said:

 

It could explain why the three of the tracks sound familiar to existing Guns N Roses tracks, and why the second track has similarities to Civil War when it'd be too early in the Guns N Roses timeline.

But the guy saying it's Billy Barber has been claiming this for months, claims he has proof and footage, yet never follows up on it after months, and after people have requested for it. He only posts about it on reuploads of Shallow instead of any of the other three songs that are less popular and less liked. That Youtube account was made in 2021, one year after Shallow was uploaded, and could be an account made specifically to troll. If you search for Billy Barber, BJ O'Connor, Jamie, or any of the other names he mentons on discogs, nothing comes up, so this band must be extremely obscure if it ever existed.

Are these other three songs you're referencing anywhere? I haven't heard anything about them

[BucketEgg]

2 minutes ago, The Matinator said:

Are these other three songs you're referencing anywhere? I haven't heard anything about them

They're uploaded on the original uploader's channel. Only the the video with the full upload of the entire tape has the full version of the second song.

[BucketEgg]

No wonder why the uploader said the writing on the tape is barely legible if some of their rehearsal tapes look like this

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/guns-roses-rehersal-cassette-tape-1993245439

"This is an awesome cassette tape to listen to, rehearsal recorded on both sides of the tape. Some songs with Axl singing, some without.From Tom Zutaut's collection. Business cards are for authentication only and are not included in sale."

 

I'm seeing "Jan 1 83" in the top picture, but there's no way it could possibly be made in 83, that's way too early for Guns N Roses, so I must be misreading it among all the scribbling, It's most likely 88.

 

And there's another ebay listing with DAT tapes for various versions of Don't Cry that mentioned Zutaut. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/guns-roses-don-cry-dats-march-1991-1994522497   . 

 

lol it's often Tom Zutaut that's mentioned in these listings. I guess if the tape with Shallow in it is legit, it's probably because Tom Zutaut had it at one point.

 

Edited July 14 by BucketEgg

[Rindmelon]

@BucketEgg There was more that was sold from that locker than just those Village CD's

Will have something on Your Looks Are Gone soon ( nothing to do with Zoots locker)

Edited July 14 by Rindmelon
clarification on 2 things not being connected