Why do you think Chinese Democracy was snubbed so badly in 2009?

[gunsnchalupas]

In 2009, self proclaimed lullaby brand Rockabye Baby release a compilation of Guns N' Roses themed lullaby songs. 

Here is a description of the product from Amazon:

Is a sweet child o' yours trying your patience at bedtime? Do you have an appetite for noise reduction? Don't you cry tonight. Fire up these gentle renditions of GNR's metal classics to rock your little devil to a peaceful sleep. Welcome to the nursery, baby. It's paradise city.

The album included songs from each original studio album, except for Chinese Democracy. 

I understand that with Axl, most of his problems are multi-faceted. There is not ever one reason why something goes wrong. With that said, do you think Axl's unwillingness to promote Chinese Democracy could have partly been because he was upset over the tracklist of the Rockabye Baby compilation? 

If you go back to 2003, there was significant disagreement over the tracklist for the original Greatest Hits. 

Had Rockabye Baby included a lullaby version of Scraped, do you think we might have gotten both alternate covers of CD and the eventual remix album, or do you think Axl wasn't going to play ball regardless and Chinese Democracy getting snubbed by Rockabye Baby was a convenient excuse for him to go back into hiding?

I used the search function but couldn't find a thread about this. I am not sure if the search is broken. I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed yet. 

 

Edited July 10 by gunsnchalupas

[BucketEgg]

5 minutes ago, gunsnchalupas said:

In 2009, self proclaimed lullaby brand Rockabye Baby release a compilation of Guns N' Roses themed lullaby songs. 

Here is a description of the product from Amazon:

Is a sweet child o' yours trying your patience at bedtime? Do you have an appetite for noise reduction? Don't you cry tonight. Fire up these gentle renditions of GNR's metal classics to rock your little devil to a peaceful sleep. Welcome to the nursery, baby. It's paradise city.

The album included songs from each original studio album, except for Chinese Democracy. 

I understand that with Axl, most of his problems are multi-faceted. There is not ever one reason why something goes wrong. With that said, do you think Axl's unwillingness to promote Chinese Democracy could have partly been because he was upset over the tracklist of the Rockabye Baby compilation? 

If you go back to 2003, there was a significant among of disagreement over the original Greatest Hits. 

Had the included a lullaby version of Scraped, do you think we might have gotten both alternate covers of CD and the eventual remix album, or do you think Axl wasn't going to play ball regardless and Chinese Democracy getting snubbed by Rockabye Baby was a convenient excuse for him to go back into hiding?

I used the search function but couldn't find a thread about this. I am not sure if the search is broken. I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed yet. 

 

wow, they didn't even try to make Catcher In The Rye lullaby?

[MattyIce3924]

28 minutes ago, gunsnchalupas said:

In 2009, self proclaimed lullaby brand Rockabye Baby release a compilation of Guns N' Roses themed lullaby songs. 

Here is a description of the product from Amazon:

Is a sweet child o' yours trying your patience at bedtime? Do you have an appetite for noise reduction? Don't you cry tonight. Fire up these gentle renditions of GNR's metal classics to rock your little devil to a peaceful sleep. Welcome to the nursery, baby. It's paradise city.

The album included songs from each original studio album, except for Chinese Democracy. 

I understand that with Axl, most of his problems are multi-faceted. There is not ever one reason why something goes wrong. With that said, do you think Axl's unwillingness to promote Chinese Democracy could have partly been because he was upset over the tracklist of the Rockabye Baby compilation? 

If you go back to 2003, there was significant disagreement over the tracklist for the original Greatest Hits. 

Had Rockabye Baby included a lullaby version of Scraped, do you think we might have gotten both alternate covers of CD and the eventual remix album, or do you think Axl wasn't going to play ball regardless and Chinese Democracy getting snubbed by Rockabye Baby was a convenient excuse for him to go back into hiding?

I used the search function but couldn't find a thread about this. I am not sure if the search is broken. I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed yet. 

 

This is some of the best satire since A Modest Proposal. 

[EvH]

Reads just like a @Karicethread 

[Gunner Gilby]

Well the album came out in 08 not 09. Some possible reasons. No music videos or Axl interviews to promote it. Some simply couldn't get past Slash, Duff and other classic era members not being on it. I think the biggest reason is people just got tired of waiting for it to come out. And by the time it  did had lost interest. If CD came out in the late nineties/early 00's it could've been different.

Edited July 10 by Gunner Gilby

[ZoSoRose]

Easy. Because,

A. It took too long

B. Different, less commercial sound than OG GnR

C. No original band members aside from Axl
 

Remains one of my favorite albums, though

[StrangerInThisTown]

2 hours ago, gunsnchalupas said:

Had Rockabye Baby included a lullaby version of Scraped

 

..people on here genuinely read this shit and think this is a serious account who's posting and give real replies? Haha

Edited July 10 by StrangerInThisTown

[Nightrain7]

Promo was abysmal.

1.'Better' should have been the first single (CD was not radio friendly)

2.There should have been a music video

3.Where was AXL ? he went into hiding as the album was released

4.Interviews, TV appearances, Magazines, radio promo ?? nothing... 

But hey, did anyone get a free DR Pepper?

[ZoSoRose]

4 hours ago, Nightrain7 said:

Promo was abysmal.

1.'Better' should have been the first single (CD was not radio friendly)

2.There should have been a music video

3.Where was AXL ? he went into hiding as the album was released

4.Interviews, TV appearances, Magazines, radio promo ?? nothing... 

But hey, did anyone get a free DR Pepper?

I remember seeing commercials on TV, billboards, and the stands in- store. I never got the "promotion was abysmal" argument. Almost everyone who paid attention to rock music in the 2000s new about the thing and new it was coming out. What better promotion is there than all the jokes and rumors the record produced before it arrived?

Aside from the intro staying, I think the title track was a decent lead single. It has an actual guitar riff, kicks off with an Axl scream, and is a good representation of that era. Better is one of my favorite GNR songs, but I don't think it would have caught on any more than the title track did. The verse melodies are catchy, but there are still a ton of shred guitar parts, differing vocal parts, and layers. It isn't a textbook radio- rock song. None of the songs are. 

Would TV appearances, interviews, and a proper music video done that much to move the needle? I don't think so... maybe a little. But by 2008, CD sales had already declined a good amount and GNR had already long- achieved "legacy status". People were going to the shows for the hits and by that point in time, the brand's image would forever be Slash's top hat and Axl's crazy antics waiving the Appetite and November Rain flag. As it should be. 

Velvet Revolver's Contraband was sort of like an Indian Summer for the GNR brand having a mainstream rock hit. CD in 2006 may have had a fighting chance of doing better if they had at least brought Slash and at least one other original member back in the band and pasted them all over the record, but I don't think it was ever going to be a hit- producing album. The music doesn't really lend itself to that. I don't mean that as a criticism, as I said, it is one of my favorite albums. 

I stand by my prior answer. The record didn't do well because, 

A. Time. It arrived with a whimper and as a joke in an era when CD sales and rock music in the mainstream were on the out

B. A completely different sound that does not resemble what most people associate as the "Guns N' Roses sound"

C. It wasn't a true GNR album considering it was a studio assembled record by random musicians spearheaded by Axl. I am a huge fan of NuGNR and all those guys for what they achieved with the record, but it was an entirely different project considering Slash, Duff, and Izzy were not involved with the writing or playing

 

 

[gunsnchalupas]

2 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

I remember seeing commercials on TV, billboards, and the stands in- store. I never got the "promotion was abysmal" argument. Almost everyone who paid attention to rock music in the 2000s new about the thing and new it was coming out. What better promotion is there than all the jokes and rumors the record produced before it arrived?

Aside from the intro staying, I think the title track was a decent lead single. It has an actual guitar riff, kicks off with an Axl scream, and is a good representation of that era. Better is one of my favorite GNR songs, but I don't think it would have caught on any more than the title track did. The verse melodies are catchy, but there are still a ton of shred guitar parts, differing vocal parts, and layers. It isn't a textbook radio- rock song. None of the songs are. 

Would TV appearances, interviews, and a proper music video done that much to move the needle? I don't think so... maybe a little. But by 2008, CD sales had already declined a good amount and GNR had already long- achieved "legacy status". People were going to the shows for the hits and by that point in time, the brand's image would forever be Slash's top hat and Axl's crazy antics waiving the Appetite and November Rain flag. As it should be. 

Velvet Revolver's Contraband was sort of like an Indian Summer for the GNR brand having a mainstream rock hit. CD in 2006 may have had a fighting chance of doing better if they had at least brought Slash and at least one other original member back in the band and pasted them all over the record, but I don't think it was ever going to be a hit- producing album. The music doesn't really lend itself to that. I don't mean that as a criticism, as I said, it is one of my favorite albums. 

I stand by my prior answer. The record didn't do well because, 

A. Time. It arrived with a whimper and as a joke in an era when CD sales and rock music in the mainstream were on the out

B. A completely different sound that does not resemble what most people associate as the "Guns N' Roses sound"

C. It wasn't a true GNR album considering it was a studio assembled record by random musicians spearheaded by Axl. I am a huge fan of NuGNR and all those guys for what they achieved with the record, but it was an entirely different project considering Slash, Duff, and Izzy were not involved with the writing or playing

 

 

 

I don't remember there being billboards to promote the album. I think it might have been available in Wal-Mart and they sort of hoped that using the Guns N' Roses name on it would get people curious enough to buy it. Even as a gift. Maybe for a special occasion like a gag gift for a birthday as if to say I know you will never listen to this silly thing, but you likes Guns N' Roses so I bought this for you. 

I don't think Axl would have promoted the album regardless, but maybe if he had more of a say in the track list than he did he might have played ball a little bit. I also think Axl not having kids could have played into it. Like maybe he just didn't get it because he hasn't spent time around babies. 

[gunsnchalupas]

4 hours ago, Nightrain7 said:

Promo was abysmal.

1.'Better' should have been the first single (CD was not radio friendly)

2.There should have been a music video

3.Where was AXL ? he went into hiding as the album was released

4.Interviews, TV appearances, Magazines, radio promo ?? nothing... 

But hey, did anyone get a free DR Pepper?

 

I think Better would have been a great single had it been on the album. I could see it being really catchy with the arrangements they used on songs like Jungle. 

I don't think any of the other albums had music videos. These weren't big productions with a lot of money spent. But maybe if Axl was on board, it would have been a step forward for the group and they could have done one.

I don't think Axl promoting the album makes any sense since he wasn't involved with it. I guess maybe for royalties? With his personality, even with him not being involved, I could see him being upset at the final tracklist and how it was Rockabye Baby basically saying that Chinese Democracy isn't relevant enough to include on the album. 

[gunsnchalupas]

6 hours ago, ZoSoRose said:

Easy. Because,

A. It took too long

B. Different, less commercial sound than OG GnR

C. No original band members aside from Axl
 

Remains one of my favorite albums, though

 

I am not sure how long the album took to make. I guess it was different sounding than OG GNR, but that was because the songs were reworked to sound like lullabies. I would argue it was even more commercial than GNRs work but it was aimed at a niche market (gag gifts, expecting mothers who like GNR, etc). Axl wasn't involved in the album, that's the point. Maybe if they had approached him and took his input about the tracklist, he wouldn't have felt snubbed. 

[gunsnchalupas]

6 hours ago, Gunner Gilby said:

Well the album came out in 08 not 09. Some possible reasons. No music videos or Axl interviews to promote it. Some simply couldn't get past Slash, Duff and other classic era members not being on it. I think the biggest reason is people just got tired of waiting for it to come out. And by the time it  did had lost interest. If CD came out in the late nineties/early 00's it could've been different.

I am going off Amazon's release date, which I am almost certain is correct. It came out in 2009, not 2008.

Do you really think Axl was going to promote a product that he really was never even involved with? Do you think the producers should have phoned him up and gotten him to endorse the album? 

It would be cool because his "Mickey" voice would unironically compliment the album really well. Much better than his traditional vocal style. I think it would be cool if they could have gotten him involved so that he could go in the studio and do the falsetto Mickey vocals over all the tracks. I

[ZoSoRose]

2 minutes ago, gunsnchalupas said:

 

I don't think Axl would have promoted the album regardless, but maybe if he had more of a say in the track list than he did he might have played ball a little bit.

Based on the locker leaks, released singles, and Monsters, I still doubt there was a second or third record ready to go for 2009 or 2010. I think Axl could have released CD as a double album which would have helped with some hype. "It took a while, but it is an epic release because it's a double album!"... or something like that. 
 

Disc 1,

1. Chinese Democracy

2. Hard Skool

3. Better

4. Street of Dreams

5. Scraped

6. Perhaps

7. Oklahoma

8. Sorry

9. Absurd

10. The General

11. Monsters
 

Disc 2, 

1. Madagascar

2. Tonto

3. Atlas Shrugged

4. Catcher in the Rye

5. I.R.S. 

6. Riad N' the Bedouins

7. If the World

8. Shackler's Revenge

9. Oh My God

10. This I Love

11. Prostitute

 

I don't know if that would have sold more, but it may have helped alleviate the reputation the album had before it came out in terms of the expense and length it took to arrive. 

6 minutes ago, gunsnchalupas said:

I am going off Amazon's release date, which I am almost certain is correct. It came out in 2009, not 2008.

Do you really think Axl was going to promote a product that he really was never even involved with? Do you think the producers should have phoned him up and gotten him to endorse the album? 

It would be cool because his "Mickey" voice would unironically compliment the album really well. Much better than his traditional vocal style. I think it would be cool if they could have gotten him involved so that he could go in the studio and do the falsetto Mickey vocals over all the tracks. I

Well I bought the album the day it came out and it was 100% November 2008. Also, of course Axl was involved- it was his project! What kind of a post is that?

[ZoSoRose]

EDIT- @gunsnchalupas, I thought you were talking about Chinese Democracy. You are talking about a Lullaby Album. My bad but also, what the fuck is this thread  I need to go to bed

[jamillos]

2 hours ago, ZoSoRose said:

I remember seeing commercials on TV, billboards, and the stands in- store. I never got the "promotion was abysmal" argument. Almost everyone who paid attention to rock music in the 2000s new about the thing and new it was coming out. What better promotion is there than all the jokes and rumors the record produced before it arrived?

Aside from the intro staying, I think the title track was a decent lead single. It has an actual guitar riff, kicks off with an Axl scream, and is a good representation of that era. Better is one of my favorite GNR songs, but I don't think it would have caught on any more than the title track did. The verse melodies are catchy, but there are still a ton of shred guitar parts, differing vocal parts, and layers. It isn't a textbook radio- rock song. None of the songs are. 

Would TV appearances, interviews, and a proper music video done that much to move the needle? I don't think so... maybe a little. But by 2008, CD sales had already declined a good amount and GNR had already long- achieved "legacy status". People were going to the shows for the hits and by that point in time, the brand's image would forever be Slash's top hat and Axl's crazy antics waiving the Appetite and November Rain flag. As it should be. 

Velvet Revolver's Contraband was sort of like an Indian Summer for the GNR brand having a mainstream rock hit. CD in 2006 may have had a fighting chance of doing better if they had at least brought Slash and at least one other original member back in the band and pasted them all over the record, but I don't think it was ever going to be a hit- producing album. The music doesn't really lend itself to that. I don't mean that as a criticism, as I said, it is one of my favorite albums. 

I stand by my prior answer. The record didn't do well because, 

A. Time. It arrived with a whimper and as a joke in an era when CD sales and rock music in the mainstream were on the out

B. A completely different sound that does not resemble what most people associate as the "Guns N' Roses sound"

C. It wasn't a true GNR album considering it was a studio assembled record by random musicians spearheaded by Axl. I am a huge fan of NuGNR and all those guys for what they achieved with the record, but it was an entirely different project considering Slash, Duff, and Izzy were not involved with the writing or playing

 

 

Well, compared to other bands, yes, the promotion was abysmal indeed, especially for a record that had become sort of a legend even prior to its release. There may have been some random PR spots or whatever, but generally, there was no real promotion.
They didn’t release any video to any song.
They didn’t tour it for the following year, and Axl was nowhere to be seen. 
They didn’t do any interviews (except the one Axl did with his own manager months after and basically mostly repeated the stuff from the December '08 chats), and the other band members weren't allowed to talk about anything in depth anyway. 
We didn’t get any information regarding the songs, their origin etc. The stupid "shroud everything in mystery" strategy had begun long before, so people basically didn’t know much about anything. No proper PR team talking to people, basically just radio silence all over. 
There was barely any proper website, and the casuals often didn’t even know who was in the band. Some of the recording members had gone by the time the album was released, and there was yet another change shortly after on top of that. 
No Twitter account until 09 iirc, no YT videos with at least some 2006 official pro-shot. These things also matter. 
The album lacked a true hit like we were used to from Guns, especially something with a straight kick-off start, instead of those long intros with weird sounds. No rememberable guitar lick or motif (like from Slash) either. 
And last but not least, Axl himself criticized the circumstances surrounding the record’s making, which also might have translated to the subconscious of the general public in some way. 
He just distanced himself from the whole thing (other than playing the hell out of the songs a year after, kudos to that), and it just showed. So yeah, the promotion was disastrous. 

Edited July 11 by jamillos

[jekylhyde]

Because Axl did fuck all to promote it. Good old fashioned self-sabotage (just like Velvet Revolver leaving Messages out of Libertad).

[jacdaniel]

CD has a big enough following on this board but outside of here most people just don’t really dig it. 
 

Lack of a real hit. Lack of any memorable guitar riffs. Doesn’t sound like GNR. Layers. More layers. Not many great solos. 

I know some people on here will argue those points and that’s fine. But it is ultimately the reason that people don’t like it 

[Rovim]

15 minutes ago, jacdaniel said:

Not many great solos. 

we must have very different taste when it comes to guitar solos. to each his own, but the album is full of great solos imo. it's guitar players that aren't Slash, but I still think most of the solos are top notch. one area on Chinese that I feel is really strong.

[gunsnchalupas]

6 hours ago, jekylhyde said:

Because Axl did fuck all to promote it. Good old fashioned self-sabotage (just like Velvet Revolver leaving Messages out of Libertad).

 

I don't think he should have promoted an album that he wasn't the creative force behind. 

5 hours ago, Rovim said:

we must have very different taste when it comes to guitar solos. to each his own, but the album is full of great solos imo. it's guitar players that aren't Slash, but I still think most of the solos are top notch. one area on Chinese that I feel is really strong.

There are no guitar solos on the album. The xylophone playing is second to none, but that is beyond the point. 

[WhazUp]

I keep forgetting how odd GNR fandom gets during the non-touring times and I have been here for 16 years lol

[Tom-Ass]

I tried to listen to this album "again" with an open mind last week... Still don't get it or like it... There are a couple decent tracks but they are better live than on the album... I found myself having to skip songs half way through before finally putting something else on. 

Edited July 12 by Tom-Ass

[Tom-Ass]

On 7/11/2024 at 12:38 AM, ZoSoRose said:

I remember seeing commercials on TV, billboards, and the stands in- store. I never got the "promotion was abysmal" argument. Almost everyone who paid attention to rock music in the 2000s new about the thing and new it was coming out. What better promotion is there than all the jokes and rumors the record produced before it arrived?

I would agree that initial promotion was fine.. It was pretty big news in the rock world. Radio stations across the country were playing the album in its entirely. I remember WAAF Boston doing that, and then listening to all the people calling into the morning show the next day saying how awful it was.. The title track wasn't a bad choice for a single.. That is probably my favorite track if I had to pick one though it didn't need that intro. Better is one that I just don't understand all the love for.. I find it to be terrible..

[gunsnchalupas]

10 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

I tried to listen to this album "again" with an open mind last week... Still don't get it or like it... There are a couple decent tracks but they are better live than on the album... I found myself having to skip songs half way through before finally putting something else on. 

When did they play it live? 

I never knew they did live shows. 

10 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

I would agree that initial promotion was fine.. It was pretty big news in the rock world. Radio stations across the country were playing the album in its entirely. I remember WAAF Boston doing that, and then listening to all the people calling into the morning show the next day saying how awful it was.. The title track wasn't a bad choice for a single.. That is probably my favorite track if I had to pick one though it didn't need that intro. Better is one that I just don't understand all the love for.. I find it to be terrible..

I think people are right to be upset if they played the album all the way through on a rock station. Maybe on a children's station it would be okay, or if they played one song as a gag. 

Imagine you're driving home from work and they play that whole childish album, of course you're going to change the dial. You're not a baby! The songs are clearly for babies.

[Illusion1987]

I love CD but let's be honest....the songs are less melodic than pre CD albums.

The songs are cool....but they are more manufactured than organic.

Axl,  on his own, really struggled with melodies a la Patience, Sweet Child Or Don't Cry.

Can anyone hum a baby lulaby friendly song from CD?

I  say this as someone who has used the GNR lullabies for my children.