Why do you think Chinese Democracy was snubbed so badly in 2009?

[Illusion1987]

11 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

Better is one that I just don't understand all the love for.. I find it to be terrible..

To me, Better is the most "GNR like song " on the album...that and SOD

[Spoon87]

7-9 years too late and the "he broke the band up for THIS?" point of view within the general public. 

[Sweersa]

On 7/11/2024 at 12:38 AM, ZoSoRose said:

C. It wasn't a true GNR album considering it was a studio assembled record by random musicians spearheaded by Axl. I am a huge fan of NuGNR and all those guys for what they achieved with the record, but it was an entirely different project considering Slash, Duff, and Izzy were not involved with the writing or playing

 

 

The recent CD2 singles are no different, just with Duff and uninspired Slash guitar leads added, and overall horrible production. Which puts the material in an even worse position. 
While I really enjoyed the 2008 album, it indeed came out too late, and the artwork (bike) and the Guns logo at the time were boring. The mastering by Bob Ludwig was amazing, but I feel the mixing suffered from Tommy’s bass guitar being too low in the mix. It’s barely audible throughout the album, compared to all of the leaks. I wish it could have come out in the form of how it existed prior to Bumblefoot’s parts being added, and even by then the songs were bloated. 
I remember that album absolutely dominated the “torrent” (illegal downloads) “charts” at the time compared to other releases, even more than the more commercially successful albums by other artists. CD underperformed expectations, but wasn’t a commercial failure, it went platinum. 
I believe it would have done better if it had a normal release (no Best Buy BS), was supported by a tour at that time, with band/Axl interviews, music video(s), the superior alt covers, etc. which was the plan, as was the follow-up in the next year, which we have still yet to hear in its entirety or proper form as of mid 2024. Just another day in Guns land. Let’s pray for more leaks, hopefully of mixes with Buckethead and Robin on them. I’d even settle for the ones with Bumblefoot at this point. 😂 

[ShadowOfTheWave]

3 hours ago, Sweersa said:

The recent CD2 singles are no different, just with Duff and uninspired Slash guitar leads added, and overall horrible production. Which puts the material in an even worse position. 
While I really enjoyed the 2008 album, it indeed came out too late, and the artwork (bike) and the Guns logo at the time were boring. The mastering by Bob Ludwig was amazing, but I feel the mixing suffered from Tommy’s bass guitar being too low in the mix. It’s barely audible throughout the album, compared to all of the leaks. I wish it could have come out in the form of how it existed prior to Bumblefoot’s parts being added, and even by then the songs were bloated. 
I remember that album absolutely dominated the “torrent” (illegal downloads) “charts” at the time compared to other releases, even more than the more commercially successful albums by other artists. CD underperformed expectations, but wasn’t a commercial failure, it went platinum. 
I believe it would have done better if it had a normal release (no Best Buy BS), was supported by a tour at that time, with band/Axl interviews, music video(s), the superior alt covers, etc. which was the plan, as was the follow-up in the next year, which we have still yet to hear in its entirety or proper form as of mid 2024. Just another day in Guns land. Let’s pray for more leaks, hopefully of mixes with Buckethead and Robin on them. I’d even settle for the ones with Bumblefoot at this point. 😂 

CD was certified platinum because it shipped over a million copies, but it didn't actually sell anything close to that in the US. I believe the sales were somewhere between 500,000-550,000, meaning Gold.

[fabrph5]

1) took WAY to long to come out

2) most fans had the majority of it was before release, I did

3) as usual, no marketing, hype, single (although I did hear CD a few times on radio etc)

4) Most fans back then and most today didn't accept them as GnR, it was Axl Rose solo project---probably would have done better if they just named the band that

[Chester 524]

14 minutes ago, fabrph5 said:

1) took WAY to long to come out

2) most fans had the majority of it was before release, I did

3) as usual, no marketing, hype, single (although I did hear CD a few times on radio etc)

4) Most fans back then and most today didn't accept them as GnR, it was Axl Rose solo project---probably would have done better if they just named the band that

agree with all of this.  and I'll add that having Best Buy as the only place to buy it in 2008 didn't help at all.  Target and Wallmart at the very minimum would have helped a little. 

[SlashisGOD]

No Slash is why it is disliked by casual fans. 

[BangoSkank]

The Rockabye Baby people had a bias towards Slash. Everyone knows this. 

[Free Bird]

Lack of quality 

[Karice]

On 7/10/2024 at 5:15 PM, EvH said:

Reads just like a @Karicethread 

The topic was actually a thought provoking Thread. 💡 You wanna see a REALLY weird Karice thread? I started a William Rose vs Axl Rose! Thread where I said that there are actually two Rose Brothers, William Rose and Axl Rose. William Rose is the serious, more mature, more calm, and collected straight laced, Brother and Axl Rose is the fun loving, wild, impulsive, reckless,  Brother. I said that William Rose is the one who showed up to the Steven Adler Vs Guns N'Roses Lawsuit and told Axl Rose to stay home because he knew that Axl Rose would most likely show up to Court wearing shorts, a bandana, and sneakers and dance and sing in the courtroom and be held in contempt of Court, whereas William Rose would show up wearing a suit and dress shoes, and be calm, collected, serious, and mature in Court and not be held in contempt of Court." I had been battling insomnia when I started the William Rose vs Axl Rose Thread! 🤣 Posters responded something like,"Karice, what the FUCK is wrong with you?" 🤣 

[Sweersa]

On 7/14/2024 at 10:30 AM, SlashisGOD said:

No Slash is why it is disliked by casual fans. 

I bet half or more casual fans didn't know Slash wasn't on it.

[Eremialx]

3 hours ago, Sweersa said:

I bet half or more casual fans didn't know Slash wasn't on it.

Yes, you're right, I saw a reaction video on YouTube where someone listened Better and noted the cool solo that Slash played. 
On the other hand, if he found out that Slash was not in the band at that time, then the solo would automatically become bad.

[janrichmond]

7 minutes ago, Eremialx said:

Yes, you're right, I saw a reaction video on YouTube where someone listened Better and noted the cool solo that Slash played. 
On the other hand, if he found out that Slash was not in the band at that time, then the solo would automatically become bad.

The songs just aren't good regardless of who plays them. You can't polish a turd.

[Rindmelon]

16 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

The songs just aren't good regardless of who plays them. You can't polish a turd.

You can try, that's what Absurd is.

[evilfacelessturtle]

On 7/12/2024 at 9:37 PM, Illusion1987 said:

To me, Better is the most "GNR like song " on the album...that and SOD

IRS is the most classic GNR style. I'd really love to hear it with Slash.

[Karice]

2 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

IRS is the most classic GNR style. I'd really love to hear it with Slash.

IRS is my FAVORITE song on Chinese Democracy. 😍🤩 🥰I loved it even before I heard the mind blowing,"True," part and then I loved it even MORE! 🤩😍🥰

Edited July 18 by Karice

[fabrph5]

On 7/14/2024 at 12:40 PM, BangoSkank said:

The Rockabye Baby people had a bias towards Slash. Everyone knows this. 

right! all the fans that grew up watching GnR wanted the guitar player responsible for every hit they had.  Tough concept huh

[evilfacelessturtle]

21 hours ago, fabrph5 said:

right! all the fans that grew up watching GnR wanted the guitar player responsible for every hit they had.  Tough concept huh

Some say Izzy was responsible for every hit they had... 

[DeNfr]

this thread is almost as fucked up as French politics 

[Karice]

46 minutes ago, DeNfr said:

this thread is almost as fucked up as French politics 

I love the women bitch slapping each other emoji! 🤣 

[Tom2112]

On 7/11/2024 at 12:44 AM, Nightrain7 said:

Promo was abysmal.

1.'Better' should have been the first single (CD was not radio friendly)

2.There should have been a music video

3.Where was AXL ? he went into hiding as the album was released

4.Interviews, TV appearances, Magazines, radio promo ?? nothing... 

But hey, did anyone get a free DR Pepper?

Promotion was decent for the month leading up to it and the week after. 

They had the whole Dr pepper thing, then they had rock band using shacklers, they had that Myspace release as well. Not to mention the advertisements on all the rock magazines.

I mean if you were anyways alert to new rock music coming out you were aware that Chinese was on its way.

It needed a big Interview and a televised performance just to get the band in view. I think there was a thought that "it's guns n roses it will do well whatever we do" and obviously it did fine, but there was easily another million records that could have been sold on hype alone.

[scottish nutter]

because CD is a bit shite, it has a couple of good songs, a couple of not bad songs and the rest are shite, more shite songs than good make for a shite album (my opinion before all the greeting starts)

[BangoSkank]

On 7/17/2024 at 8:32 PM, fabrph5 said:

right! all the fans that grew up watching GnR wanted the guitar player responsible for every hit they had.  Tough concept huh

Yeah! Shame because CD would have had some killer lullaby versions. 

[Karice]

On 7/19/2024 at 1:13 PM, Tom2112 said:

Promotion was decent for the month leading up to it and the week after. 

They had the whole Dr pepper thing, then they had rock band using shacklers, they had that Myspace release as well. Not to mention the advertisements on all the rock magazines.

I mean if you were anyways alert to new rock music coming out you were aware that Chinese was on its way.

It needed a big Interview and a televised performance just to get the band in view. I think there was a thought that "it's guns n roses it will do well whatever we do" and obviously it did fine, but there was easily another million records that could have been sold on hype alone.

Actually, Chinese Democracy Album had been getting a LOT of praise in recently. People admitted that they just jumped on the "I hate Chinese Democracy because other people said they hate it," bandwagon and now say they actually love Chinese Democracy long after they jumped off the Chinese Democracy hate bandwagon and say they love Chinese Democracy MORE than Appetite For Destruction, Lies , and Use Your Illusions Albums.  🤔💡

[Tom2112]

3 hours ago, Karice said:

Actually, Chinese Democracy Album had been getting a LOT of praise in recently. People admitted that they just jumped on the "I hate Chinese Democracy because other people said they hate it," bandwagon and now say they actually love Chinese Democracy long after they jumped off the Chinese Democracy hate bandwagon and say they love Chinese Democracy MORE than Appetite For Destruction, Lies , and Use Your Illusions Albums.  🤔💡

Very few have changed opinions to that level. Not saying a few haven't, but the majority are steadfast against Chinese Democracy as much as they were 16 years ago. 

There are many fans who do prefer Chinese over the other records though, I rate it pretty highly and I'd struggle to choose between UYI and CD. Obviously AFD is the best record though.

As far as critics, it has received some more positive 10 years later reviews and some songs have crept onto best gnr song polls at higher rankings than most would expect though, so it's fair to say the approval rating has gone up (slightly).