Use Your Illusion as one album

[SoulMonster]

There are lots of great songs on the two Use Your Illusion albums. But that's kind of just what those albums are: Collections of songs, some of which are great. The lack of cohesion, in terms of song styles and genres and quality, hurts the albums and their legacy. Here's what I would have preferred to have made the follow-up album to Appetite more impactful and stood the test of time better.

First off, some songs should have gone elsewhere: So Fine should have gone to Believe in Me (as originally intended), it is a Duff solo song and I see absolutely no reason why it should be on a GN'R album; Live and Let Die should have been saved for Spaghetti Incident, as intended; and My World should have gone on a possible Axl solo album and not tacked onto a GN'R album.

A few songs should have been scrapped in rehearsal because they simply aren't good enough. Knockin' on Heaven's Door is an example of this. Playing it live made a lot of sense: They did a great bluesy version, Slash absolutely shines on it live, it's great for crowd interaction and sing-along, and it is useful to commemorate people like Todd. But the recorded version has none of this and with the choir and telephone it just is a bit silly, especially in retrospect. And I am not saying the other songs I would have preferred they never actually recorded are entirely without merit, either, Slash's playing is inspired throughout the albums also on the poor songs, but they are not good enough to be recorded. They could have been played live now and then to spice things up, though.

Then there are 8 songs that are only good or okay and drags the quality down and should have been kept off the album but used as B-sides on the 8 singles the band released: Dust N' Bones, You Ain't The First, Bad Obsession, 14 Years, Garden of Eden, Dead Horse, Yesterdays and Get in the Ring. These are songs that definitely should be part of the band's back catalogue, but works better as B-sides and not as fillers on albums. It would make the singles more attractive, too. Finally, the alternative version of Don't Cry should also have gone on the Don't Cry single, no need for two version of this song on the album.

This leaves the following 14 songs to go on the one Use Your Illusion album: Right Next Door To Hell, Don't Cry, Perfect Crime, Double Talkin' Jive, November Rain, Don't Damn Me, Coma, Civil War, The GARDEN, Breakdown, Pretty Tied Up, Locomotive, Estranged, and You Could Be Mine. I haven't calculated the minutes and we might be over the limit, though... 

If produced and mixed better, this would have been an album that in my opinion would have been as great as Appetite.

 

[F*ck Fear]

I like them as two. The only tracks I skip are Shotgun Blues, Get In The Ring & My World.

Edited Saturday at 08:13 AM by F*ck Fear

[El Guapo]

Just no.

[izzyjim]

Give me back off bitch or give me death!

I know many consider this a juvenile-esque tune, and perhaps they're right,  yet I'd rather have it - even as an instrumental - than nothing at all.

Gotta love the sleaziness of that Izzy guitar intro!

[ZoSoRose]

Never had this thread before 

[Spoon87]

Yeah, no.

[SoulMonster]

Alan Niven also would have preferred just one album, but not so much because of the fillers and bad songs:

And Slash would also think the albums were too long:

Edited Saturday at 03:17 PM by SoulMonster

[Rovim]

10 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

There are lots of great songs on the two Use Your Illusion albums. But that's kind of just what those albums are: Collections of songs, some of which are great. The lack of cohesion, in terms of song styles and genres and quality, hurts the albums and their legacy. Here's what I would have preferred to have made the follow-up album to Appetite more impactful and stood the test of time better.

First off, some songs should have gone elsewhere: So Fine should have gone to Believe in Me (as originally intended), it is a Duff solo song and I see absolutely no reason why it should be on a GN'R album; Live and Let Die should have been saved for Spaghetti Incident, as intended; and My World should have gone on a possible Axl solo album and not tacked onto a GN'R album.

A few songs should have been scrapped in rehearsal because they simply aren't good enough. Knockin' on Heaven's Door is an example of this. Playing it live made a lot of sense: They did a great bluesy version, Slash absolutely shines on it live, it's great for crowd interaction and sing-along, and it is useful to commemorate people like Todd. But the recorded version has none of this and with the choir and telephone it just is a bit silly, especially in retrospect. And I am not saying the other songs I would have preferred they never actually recorded are entirely without merit, either, Slash's playing is inspired throughout the albums also on the poor songs, but they are not good enough to be recorded. They could have been played live now and then to spice things up, though.

Then there are 8 songs that are only good or okay and drags the quality down and should have been kept off the album but used as B-sides on the 8 singles the band released: Dust N' Bones, You Ain't The First, Bad Obsession, 14 Years, Garden of Eden, Dead Horse, Yesterdays and Get in the Ring. These are songs that definitely should be part of the band's back catalogue, but works better as B-sides and not as fillers on albums. It would make the singles more attractive, too. Finally, the alternative version of Don't Cry should also have gone on the Don't Cry single, no need for two version of this song on the album.

This leaves the following 14 songs to go on the one Use Your Illusion album: Right Next Door To Hell, Don't Cry, Perfect Crime, Double Talkin' Jive, November Rain, Don't Damn Me, Coma, Civil War, The GARDEN, Breakdown, Pretty Tied Up, Locomotive, Estranged, and You Could Be Mine. I haven't calculated the minutes and we might be over the limit, though... 

If produced and mixed better, this would have been an album that in my opinion would have been as great as Appetite.

 

I get what you're saying here, problem with a band like Gn'R as far as I'm concerned, is that you couldn't trust them to put out more material if they just went with one album as UYI. we might have gotten less songs or it would have taken years to get the rest of the material.

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I get what you're saying here, problem with a band like Gn'R as far as I'm concerned, is that you couldn't trust them to put out more material if they just went with one album as UYI. we might have gotten less songs or it would have taken years to get the rest of the material.

Well, with the scenario I described we would have got all the good songs on one album plus B-sides on the singles that would come out over the next few years, kind of like it went down. Instead of two good records we would have got one amazing record plus lots of good B sides. One album that would rival Appetite.

[Rovim]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Well, with the scenario I described we would have got all the good songs on one album plus B-sides on the singles that would come out over the next few years, kind of like it went down. Instead of two good records we would have got one amazing record plus lots of good B sides. One album that would rival Appetite.

yeah but I imagine a scenario where it would've fell apart and old Guns broke up before we got to the b sides. I agree it could have been a much better record if it was just one album, but thing is that personally, I like all the Gn'R tunes except My World which means it worked out pretty good for me as a fan as I like shit like Bad Obsession and Shotgun Blues, So Fine, etc.

[SoulMonster]

23 minutes ago, Rovim said:

yeah but I imagine a scenario where it would've fell apart and old Guns broke up before we got to the b sides. I agree it could have been a much better record if it was just one album, but thing is that personally, I like all the Gn'R tunes except My World which means it worked out pretty good for me as a fan as I like shit like Bad Obsession and Shotgun Blues, So Fine, etc.

I don't think they would have broken up sooner with my scenario then what happened in reality, assuming they were all on board with the plan of making one great record and then release other songs as B-sides. In reality they released two records and then 8 singles over the next few years, before they started to disintegrate.

[ZoSoRose]

For what it’s worth, I think the countless “UYI as one discs” threads are meh. I love the records as a whole. UYI rocks and I dig most of those songs listed as “filler” by some people. 

[SoulMonster]

Izzy was also not a fan of the two albums:

I think this is pretty cool, fans are more fans than the band itself. More Catholic than the pope. A band makes an effort but rarely succeeds 100% in their own eyes, yet there will always be some people out there who will absolutely love it, to whom it just hits the spot perfectly, for whatever reasons, even more so than the band itself. Izzy could probably list half the songs on UYIs, Duff didn't recognize the riff to Don't Damn Me (although the bass lines very much replicates it), etc. The fannest of the fans know it down to the last note and bend.

[tboneman]

My only real nitpicking problem with UYI albums is the song order, especially on UYI II. Like why the hell would someone put You Could Be Mine as 12th song? 😄  And then it's followed by alternate version of Don't Cry and My World. 

[Free Bird]

Imo the Illusions suffer from all the bullshit Axl added to these songs, like the phone call on KOHD, those “bitches” on Coma and all the unnecessary farts like the nutcracker. Other than it’s a great peace of art, showing off the talent and diversity of the band. These two records are a big part of the bands legacy and Axl‘s decision to put them out simultaneously is also part of the greatness. 

[janrichmond]

4 hours ago, Free Bird said:

Imo the Illusions suffer from all the bullshit Axl added to these songs, like the phone call on KOHD, those “bitches” on Coma and all the unnecessary farts like the nutcracker. Other than it’s a great peace of art, showing off the talent and diversity of the band. These two records are a big part of the bands legacy and Axl‘s decision to put them out simultaneously is also part of the greatness. 

This is how I feel too, the only thing that could improve them would be to remove all the added stuff. I'd love the raw versions that Slash talked about years ago.

[gnfnrs1972]

2 hours ago, janrichmond said:

This is how I feel too, the only thing that could improve them would be to remove all the added stuff. I'd love the raw versions that Slash talked about years ago.

Another missed opportunity. They should have been in the box set.

[Gordon Comstock]

These days, if I'm listening to a UYI playlist I'll usually split it into 3 'albums'.

UYI I: Civil War, YCBM, 8-10 other songs. A proper follow-up to AFD.

UYI II: Coma, DTJ, Nov Rain, Locomotive, Estranged. All the big Axl/Slash epics on one record, go full self-indulgence.

UYI III: The leftovers and covers. I usually include Ain't Goin' Down but not Back Off Bitch, So Fine, Get In The Ring, Don't Cry alt or My World.

[rocknroll41]

I usually like to “digest” uyi1 as a double album onto itself (meaning I listen to tracks 1-8 and then take a bit of a break and then do tracks 9-16, or something to that effect).

uyi2 I don’t listen to much anymore, tbh.

I used to be one of those people that said it all should’ve been just one album (with b-sides to the singles and all), but nowadays, I’m glad they did two. I think it was the right move.

Edited Sunday at 07:19 AM by rocknroll41

[Karice]

Uh, Soul Monster, Use Your Illusions Albums aren't the follow up to Appetite For Destruction Album. GNR Lies is actually the follow up to Appetite For Destruction Album. 😵‍💫

[Free Bird]

6 hours ago, Karice said:

Uh, Soul Monster, Use Your Illusions Albums aren't the follow up to Appetite For Destruction Album. GNR Lies is actually the follow up to Appetite For Destruction Album. 😵‍💫

No offence Karice but I don’t think you can teach anybody anything on this forum especially when somebody is here a member for years. 
You’re right that Lies was released in between AFD and UYI but it was a combination of two EP’s with only 4 new songs. Many fans don’t consider it an album (though some do). 

[SoulMonster]

34 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

No offence Karice but I don’t think you can teach anybody anything on this forum especially when somebody is here a member for years. 
You’re right that Lies was released in between AFD and UYI but it was a combination of two EP’s with only 4 new songs. Many fans don’t consider it an album (though some do). 

Yeah. 

With follow-up I think of the next LP, not an EP. Additionally, the band was adamant that Lies should not be considered a follow up to Appetite. 

[gunsnchalupas]

They could have gotten 3-4 albums out of the core of the UYI albums, and it might have taken some of the pressure off of the band that resulted in them splitting. 

It also might have increased the odds of Axl releasing a solo album, which if I recall he toyed with. If after releasing the follow up to Appetite, Rose still had Estranged, Yesterdays, (eventually) This I Love, Dead Horse, Breakdown, Back Off Bitch, and Shotgun Blues, that's enough for an album without the pressure of starting from scratch. Yesterdays would probably be seen as the single material, so at that point Dave Grohl, Trent Reznor, and Lightning Hopkins would just have to come up with a rocker as his backing band. 

I think that there was GNR fatigue to an extent. I think that there might have been a few songs that could have been lead singles, or bigger songs in the right place/right time, but there was 8 singles in less than 3 years, at a time when GNR didn't have a break from the spotlight and was becoming less of the it thing. If the follow up LP to Appetite was only 35-40 minutes long, they might have been able to get it out by the end of 1989. Then maybe that gives them room to have 2-3 follow ups between 1990-1999, that are more spaced out and given time to breath, with less pressure to write because they would have 2-3 big songs in the bank for each album. 

Of course, it could have gone the other direction. They could have released a 40 minute LP in 1990, imploded due to personal issues, and you guys spend 40 years speculating about the demo to Dead Horse. 

[Tom2112]

It would have cost basically zero and it would have been super cool if the UYI 30th anniversary included Slash's raw mix, Izzy's / Slash's no nonsense 8-10 songs album. Easy to do bonus material.

Honestly to put one cd together is next to impossible. How do you leave off some of those songs? The thing that I loved was that I went from balls to wall and then to the most out there bombastic and that was possible because there was space to do so. When you consider the limitations of cd, you have to cut out some classic grade A songs. 

Finally, there are songs on there that I don't consider great, but nothing including My world that I wish away. And yes, it would be cool if gnr had two unquestionable stone cold classic albums in a row but it's also kinda cool that they had no 1 and no 2 albums at the sane time.

[themadcaplaughs]

At this point, trying to redo the Use Your Illusion albums in any way (including resequencing the songs) would be like George Lucas going back to the Star Wars movies to make unnecessary additions/changes. The albums were a unique snapshot in both the band's history and music history in general, and that includes the bloat, the sometimes confounding production choices (stripping away Izzy from many songs and Matt's God awful drum sound being the strangest) and the general "let's throw everything at the wall" approach. Hell, that the albums work as well as they do remains a testament to how strong most of the material was. I've participated in countless threads like this, so I'm not throwing shade. I've just learned to accept them for what they are. 

All that being said, "Back off Bitch" and "Shotgun Blues" could go and I'd never miss them