NEU-YORK Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 its exciting in a way to think we are reading the last of the 'speculative' posts....meaning all will be answered soon?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pain_Train_99 Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Some people are never happy, if the record company was pissed at axl, he wouldnt be under their name so long. they have plenty of other artists to worry about i'm sure axl wasnt their top priority for that many years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takeshi Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Some people are never happy, if the record company was pissed at axl, he wouldnt be under their name so long. they have plenty of other artists to worry about i'm sure axl wasnt their top priority for that many yearsThe problem that the record company has, is that they've invested millions of dollars into CD and if they dropped Axl, all that money would be lost. They can only get that money back when Axl releases CD and that situation gives Axl a lot of leverage in his relationship with them. I'm sure record companies do have many other artists to worry about, but have no doubt that they're worrying about the huge investment in CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pain_Train_99 Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 no doubt they are worrying about CD's sales, I just dont think they're pissed at axl, or they'd have dropped him after the first few million dollars. I think they know enough ppl will buy it where, if they do take a small hit it won't really matter since they'll make huge money off of other artists. but yeah, i agree with you, they have to be worried about how much CD will make after all that time and money lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madison Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 .... I think it's very hard to say Axl is more focused on capitalist gain (profit) when he has dumped over 13 million into it and pays people to play on it. A8RIf that was true, I would agree with you, but it's not. The label has poured more than $10 million into the album, not Axl. There's a difference. Axl is a smart businessman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Rose Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 “We learned a long time ago we can’t really do things for the cash. Whenever we’ve tried to do something that we really didn’t want to do, but it was a good money move, and we weren’t really into it, we’d go onstage, and it turned into a disaster because nobody’s heart was really into the playing. We’re doing it because we thought we were being smart businessmen, and it was the right move, and we were advised to do it – you really didn’t want to play, but it was a smart move, and it can pay off some bills, we’ve gone in and done the show and had nothing but a chaos hit" - Axl Rose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flo Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 only thing it suggests is that the Album is not coming out this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naupis Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Well, there's no changing the past. Axl's brave new sound broke up my favorite band. But here we are, a decade and a half later and we still haven't heard what all the fuss was about. All they do is play the old songs. If that's all Axl wants to do, then I don't understand why he broke up the band.The ironic thing about this "brave new sound" concept is that the sound we hear on this new album most likely will be one that is close to something the old band would have played. Axl wasted so much time that the direction he broke up the band to go has been scrapped, and he is back to a more rock sounding style now which is probably one Slash would have been OK playing. We have heard a few examples of what an industrial sounding GNR would be, and it was awful. Thankfully Axl came to his senses, it is just too bad the band had to implode to realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen8R Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 “We learned a long time ago we can’t really do things for the cash. Whenever we’ve tried to do something that we really didn’t want to do, but it was a good money move, and we weren’t really into it, we’d go onstage, and it turned into a disaster because nobody’s heart was really into the playing. We’re doing it because we thought we were being smart businessmen, and it was the right move, and we were advised to do it – you really didn’t want to play, but it was a smart move, and it can pay off some bills, we’ve gone in and done the show and had nothing but a chaos hit" - Axl RoseGrace Rose you found the quote I had been looking for. Thats dead right!It may have seemed that Axl took Geffen by the balls when he secured the name of Guns N' Roses, but what alot of these people don't realize is that it was about POWER not MONEY. A8R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrettyTiedUp763 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Yes. The record company is pissed at Axl and now they won't promote the album. Please! They want to make money off this album. They'll promote it. Though I admit that they do seem to be taking their sweet ass time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsmith Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 (edited) kaneda's point is totally valid:the more money a label puts into your record, the less likely they are to promote it. as we've all heard, the label has given him over $10 million for chinese, so they're not gonna be that motivated to give him a few million more to promote it, because that's just more debt. i know it has been said that the label stopped giving him money some time ago, and that he's been paying out of pocket. if this is true, axl may also be paying for promotion himself. if the release date is 11/21, i would expect some serious promotion/media attention in the next few weeks. just a little patience.....as far as this "axl's an artist, not a capitalist" shit is concerned, i think it's moronic. axl is an artist and a capitalist. if he wasn't into money, he wouldnt be touring and making records at the level he is, and he wouldnt live the extravagant lifestyle that he does. if he wasn't an artist, he would suck. axl is a good artist with a lot of money, i would say he's both.I agree with most of this, not sure why everybody's flaming Kaneda, he's in the neighborhood of the truth. To whoever said it's the label's money and not Axl's is dead wrong. That $13 million (which I personally believe is closer to $19 mil, but that's another thread) is RECOUPABLE, which means every penny comes back to them out of sales. Guns N' Roses have received this money as and ADVANCE, not a payment. They have long since gone past the probability point of this album being able to recoup. The industry itself has tanked, even the best sellers don't sell what they used to (by a long shot), and with GNR, it's out of sight, out of mind, their old fan base isn't a heavy CD buying segment of the population anymore, they're spending it on baby food and/or yachts.Axl constantly held carrots in front of the label's nose -- 'give me another million, i'll give you the album next Tuesday'. Millions of dollars and hundreds of Tuesdays later, somebody (Iovine) finally pulled the plug. For them to put a dime into promotion, especially before it's physically on the truck on it's way to the stores at which point Axl can no longer 'fix' something, would be fiscally ridiculous. GN'R is touring before the release because they need the money to pay salaries and release the album. It's damn likely they're paying for the promotion, which is why there isn't any. They're advanced to the hilt -- merchandising advances, publishing advances, you name it (except for touring advances, nobody's going to trust him THAT far). If it wasn't for the strong Greatest Hits sales, he'd be hooped.There is a possibility that there are deeper label politics than that -- Axl is trying to buy the album back from the label, or something insane like that. The history has been all sorts of 'stand-offs' and renegotiating. But the label isn't treating him like God's gift to Geffen anymore, giving in to his demands. I suspect he's on his own. Sanctuary had been taking up a lot of that slack (much to the dismay of the Bank of Scotland I'm sure), but with Merck's departure, that cash cow burned it's last steak. Unlikely that there will be too many signs in the public end of things, but the behind-the-scenes financial stuff is probably pretty fascinating! As for Axl and money, he's really doesn't care. He'd be on the street corner with his cap out after spending every dime on making his vision of the best album he can make. He's not much of a business man, all the financial deals I know about were tied to something beyond money -- eg: trying to cut Izzy's share was aimed at making the point that Axl didn't think he was pulling his weight, not out of any sense of wanting that money. And when he fought attempts to have the late fees come out of his share, it wasn't because he didn't want to part with the money, it was because he believed it was the right thing to do. And yeah, he likes his fast cars, some flashy jewelry and meaningful art (to him), but not because he's trying to flaunt it or live the high life, but because he's a car hobbyist and certain pieces of art and jewelry appeal to him and he doesn't care what they cost. Edited October 10, 2006 by jsmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bin laden killed gnr Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 madison why is this guy still here? no really.Kaneda i'm sure axl and co know what there doing, why do you care so much anyway? as long as you get cd in you're hands, does it really matter.I am guessing that Kaneda is an alias of someone important in the forum. Never a bullshitting type of post, always a serious thought/topic. Like a "something is on my mind, lemme sign in this other name and post it" type of deal. Someone who lives in Canada?...Blame Kaneda(canada). An admin maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppelin Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 madison why is this guy still here? no really.Kaneda i'm sure axl and co know what there doing, why do you care so much anyway? as long as you get cd in you're hands, does it really matter.I am guessing that Kaneda is an alias of someone important in the forum. Never a bullshitting type of post, always a serious thought/topic. Like a "something is on my mind, lemme sign in this other name and post it" type of deal. Someone who lives in Canada?...Blame Kaneda(canada). An admin maybe? Yeah no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lagofala Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 The record company aint that childish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboflutter Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 OK, let's just say...The single will be released on October 20th, the same day as the U.S. tour kicks off and a few days after the release date is made official, then the album will drop on November, 21st. That is one month to promote the CD, more than enough time and exposure for promotion. Things are about to happen people, just have a little patience, to quote someone i talked to today..."next week, all will be revealed" just keep an eye out on : www.gunsnroses.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBear Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 kaneda's point is totally valid:the more money a label puts into your record, the less likely they are to promote it. as we've all heard, the label has given him over $10 million for chinese, so they're not gonna be that motivated to give him a few million more to promote it, because that's just more debt. i know it has been said that the label stopped giving him money some time ago, and that he's been paying out of pocket. if this is true, axl may also be paying for promotion himself. if the release date is 11/21, i would expect some serious promotion/media attention in the next few weeks. just a little patience.....as far as this "axl's an artist, not a capitalist" shit is concerned, i think it's moronic. axl is an artist and a capitalist. if he wasn't into money, he wouldnt be touring and making records at the level he is, and he wouldnt live the extravagant lifestyle that he does. if he wasn't an artist, he would suck. axl is a good artist with a lot of money, i would say he's both.I agree with most of this, not sure why everybody's flaming Kaneda, he's in the neighborhood of the truth. To whoever said it's the label's money and not Axl's is dead wrong. That $13 million (which I personally believe is closer to $19 mil, but that's another thread) is RECOUPABLE, which means every penny comes back to them out of sales. Guns N' Roses have received this money as and ADVANCE, not a payment. They have long since gone past the probability point of this album being able to recoup. The industry itself has tanked, even the best sellers don't sell what they used to (by a long shot), and with GNR, it's out of sight, out of mind, their old fan base isn't a heavy CD buying segment of the population anymore, they're spending it on baby food and/or yachts.Axl constantly held carrots in front of the label's nose -- 'give me another million, i'll give you the album next Tuesday'. Millions of dollars and hundreds of Tuesdays later, somebody (Iovine) finally pulled the plug. For them to put a dime into promotion, especially before it's physically on the truck on it's way to the stores at which point Axl can no longer 'fix' something, would be fiscally ridiculous. GN'R is touring before the release because they need the money to pay salaries and release the album. It's damn likely they're paying for the promotion, which is why there isn't any. They're advanced to the hilt -- merchandising advances, publishing advances, you name it (except for touring advances, nobody's going to trust him THAT far). If it wasn't for the strong Greatest Hits sales, he'd be hooped.There is a possibility that there are deeper label politics than that -- Axl is trying to buy the album back from the label, or something insane like that. The history has been all sorts of 'stand-offs' and renegotiating. But the label isn't treating him like God's gift to Geffen anymore, giving in to his demands. I suspect he's on his own. Sanctuary had been taking up a lot of that slack (much to the dismay of the Bank of Scotland I'm sure), but with Merck's departure, that cash cow burned it's last steak. Unlikely that there will be too many signs in the public end of things, but the behind-the-scenes financial stuff is probably pretty fascinating! As for Axl and money, he's really doesn't care. He'd be on the street corner with his cap out after spending every dime on making his vision of the best album he can make. He's not much of a business man, all the financial deals I know about were tied to something beyond money -- eg: trying to cut Izzy's share was aimed at making the point that Axl didn't think he was pulling his weight, not out of any sense of wanting that money. And when he fought attempts to have the late fees come out of his share, it wasn't because he didn't want to part with the money, it was because he believed it was the right thing to do. And yeah, he likes his fast cars, some flashy jewelry and meaningful art (to him), but not because he's trying to flaunt it or live the high life, but because he's a car hobbyist and certain pieces of art and jewelry appeal to him and he doesn't care what they cost.Great post. Not sure I completely agree with that last part though. It's not about flaunting the fact he's rich, it's about enjoying money, which he most certainly does. How do you explain the mansion in the mountains? Is he a house hobbyist? The stuff with Izzy, the band name, his late fees. These might be tied to certain things but the bottom line is Axl decided to act in order to preserve/enhance his monetary interest. I agree he may not be a very astute businessman but he can play the game and no doubt has played it with Geffen. And he's no dummy.With the rest of your post, I think you might be pretty close to the truth. The stuff about the album and what's happening behind the scenes sounds very plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS_PoWeR Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Gunners, Let's say November 21 is the release date...that's just a little over a month away and still there is ZERO real promotion going on for Chinese Democracy. No add buys have been placed in any magazines, no video is on MTV, no single is on the airways, no banners up in Times Square, no magazine has even heard finished tracks, nothing. Since the album HAS to come out in 2006 since so many camps have said it will, Axl included, this can only mean one thing. That the record company will make this a soft launch and won't but tons of money behind it. Considering all of the money Geffen/Interscope has given Axl over the past 15 years, it's likely that they are pissed at how many years he has dicked them over and thus, this album will have to promote itself, supported only by the tour. While there's no doubt that the album, the tour, and the media frenzy around the album will garner lots of exposure to the band, I for one am very disappointed that we haven't gotten the sort of promotion or hype we deserve for this legendary band. I think their new website showed all of us that corners are being cut, that a lot of cheap alternatives are being taken. It's sort of sad that I have friends in garage bands that have a nicer website that the official Guns N Roses website. Everyday I walk to work in New York City, the media capital of the world, and I see posters and adds for tons of albums coming out this November. But nothing on Chinese D. Shouldn't buzz be building the moment the release date is set? And you have to set a release date at least a month before launch...this whole 11th hour thing is so backwards. Why the cryptic statement in the press release about 13 tuesdays between now and the end of the year? I just hope the album promotion picks up VERY SOON, or else Axl could be in for a rude awakening when album sales numbers roll in. He's got A LOT more competition today when it comes to moving records, and everyone else is playing the game right. Axl needs to deliver a statement asap and the promotion needs to begin now. And don't tell me that this tour is promotion, it's not. They've toured before and nothing happened, so people don't care as much about a tour, they want an album.Many good points.There are three possibilities for this album, imo:1. Like you said, a "soft" launch with hardly any support. (Like Poison's last album.)2. The album actually isnt coming out this year.3. A sudden frenzy of sensory overload promotion starting next week out of completely nowhere. (I highly doubt this)It's sad to see ads for all the other artists in record store already, saying "COMING IN DECEMBER!", yet NOTHING on CD. Very suspicious.Does anyone ever stop to think that W. Axl Rose does not give one blistering fuck about album sales, profit or anything that really has to do with capitalism? I do. I can't remember which one, but some magazine named him the #1 artist not motivated by money. Axl doesn't give a shit about what mainstream rock lovers think. It's just him in a band doing what they love, which is making music and touring around the globe. I doubt Axl is the least bit concerned about promoting the album and your to a bunch of dicks that like Bink 182, Hansen, the Moffats and other gay rock acts like sum 41.LMAO!!!!!!A $13 million dollar album, numerous investors, an increasingly impatient record company, a tour....and you are trying to distinct Chinese Democracy with American business??"Axl's just doing what he loves...he dont care about money...."lol! I hope Universal's shareholders were aware of this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 to be honest, what promotion do u want? Dancing bears? The tour and related stories of biting cops and lamb dinners is promotion. True this could be said to be an important release but I think Axl downplays all this. He's not a muppet and seems to try really hard to be an artist first. He will be the last one to ask the label to hype his record. It would blow his cred. The press will do it for him. His main marketing plan has been to let the press do the work. As he stayed away they fell into making him the howard hughes of rock which is better press than doing a press conference or putting out a range of tshirts. There must be a fine line between blowing your own horn and jerking off. Axl's not going to cross it. If there's a double spread in classic rock with Chinese Democracy splashed across it with the slogan "The most anticipated album of all time" the basic rock fan is going to think "fuck you". You know rock fans its all about authenticity - sort of what drives most bands into the ground is being true to ur roots whhile coining it in off the back of basically no talent dickweeds like me who just follow a band for lack of anything better in their lives, the minute you turn around and saying I'm better than you fans get pissed off. Part of GNR success has been a sort of total disregard for bullshit. I have never seen an ad in any mag for AFD yet it sold a ton last quater. Have u seen an ad for AFD or UYI? Ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS_PoWeR Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 For all the talk about financials.....let me ask this question: HOW MUCH MONEY DOES IT COST TO ANNOUNCE THE RELEASE DATE??Let me give an estimate: 0 cents.Announcing the release date is as easy as typing it into the web page. It would take about 10 seconds, give or take a second.Providing that promotional resources are low, wouldnt it make sense to announce the release date as soon as possible, such that word of mouth can spread the news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkboy Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 For all the talk about financials.....let me ask this question: HOW MUCH MONEY DOES IT COST TO ANNOUNCE THE RELEASE DATE??Let me give an estimate: 0 cents.Announcing the release date is as easy as typing it into the web page. It would take about 10 seconds, give or take a second.Providing that promotional resources are low, wouldnt it make sense to announce the release date as soon as possible, such that word of mouth can spread the news?I don't think the issue is about spending money to announce the album, I think its about agreeing on the terms that revolve around how and when the album is released. Due to all the friction that has been built over the years, you have to think that Geffen isn't sitting around waiting to give Axl a big hug when he finally says "Let's release it on this date". I'm pretty sure they will have some stipulations and we all know how Axl feels about compromising with others, especially record labels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 At the VMAs Axl joked about the release date when he said "Of course not." He knows its infuriating for fans and press not knowing thats why he does it.But that stuff about the record labels and stuff does make it seem like Axl is at war with everyone on this album. Like trying to fight everyone and go against the grain, not becos he wants to but becoa he has to.You know most bands would have just written a couple of good songs like Better and CITR in 97 and then just pushed out a record. Most albums just have a few good tracks becos u dont need more to sell an album. how many times have I bought a record and just got the single and another track and rest is garbage? Many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBear Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 (edited) I have never seen an ad in any mag for AFD yet it sold a ton last quater. Have u seen an ad for AFD or UYI? Ever?I actually have a magazine ad for AFD that I bought off of Ebay because I love how it looks. It says "The Outrageous New Album". Then below that it says "You Can Have it Both Ways" and a picture of both covers from the album, and underneath that it says "on Geffen Records, Cassettes and Compact Discs". The background to the whole ad is the banned cover pic (most of it is covered up by the other stuff), and there's another pic of the band as well.It's pretty cool.I can't vouch for how authentic it is but I see no reason why it wouldn't be - why would someone pass it off as fake, it cost me only $6 or something. It's on semi-glossy paper (the kind that magazines use) and the back has an ad for The Charvel Guitar Company. Seems like it was taken right out of a magazine. Edited October 11, 2006 by KBear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 So they are rare that u had to go on ebay to track one down. I'm not alone!!! I thought i was the only one never to have seen one. I do remember a cool tv ad for AFD - "Get it or Regret it" was the punch line.Im sure if it comes out there will be an ad. But maybe thats beneath them. Maybe they are too big for advertising. Everyones knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssiscool Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 OK, let's just say...The single will be released on October 20th, the same day as the U.S. tour kicks off and a few days after the release date is made official, then the album will drop on November, 21st. That is one month to promote the CD, more than enough time and exposure for promotion. Things are about to happen people, just have a little patience, to quote someone i talked to today..."next week, all will be revealed" just keep an eye out on : www.gunsnroses.comright... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voxy Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I can see Axl right now with a smile as wide as my ass. He would love the fact the album is discussed so much and how anxious everyone is for it. Rubbing his fingers in glee.We are all playing into his well thought out plan im sure! When the promotions start - can you imagine how nutz its going to be? Im sure it will blow our minds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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