My email to KFAN AM Radio.

[The Sandman]

I think the line begins to blur when people include the formation stage of a band.

This same argument happens with Kiss...some people insist Kiss started when Gene and Paul were in a band called Wicked Lester.

For all intents and purposes Kiss' original line up solidified (apart from doing live club shows) when they went into the recording studio as a unit,recorded and and released their first record.

Anything other than that is a biographical footnote regarding the formative stage of the band.

Same case scenario with GnR....imo

'Wicked Lester' wasn't KISS, it became KISS when they starting using that name. As with Gn'R. Otherwise, Gn'R would've started when Izzy and Axl made bands like 'Axl' etc.

[Patience 4 Axl]

You misunderstood my meaning. The name comprises of three words (okay, two and an 'N'). Ergo, Guns N' Roses is a name. Comprenez? What I meant is what is behind the name, it's the people who make it what it is. The name itself was created by the original incarnation of the band, pushed forward by Axl, Tracii and Izzy. There is no 'Slash' in Guns N' Roses.

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members. Saying Slash is not an original member since it's not called Slash N' Roses is just plain silly.

[Urlacher54]

You misunderstood my meaning. The name comprises of three words (okay, two and an 'N'). Ergo, Guns N' Roses is a name. Comprenez? What I meant is what is behind the name, it's the people who make it what it is. The name itself was created by the original incarnation of the band, pushed forward by Axl, Tracii and Izzy. There is no 'Slash' in Guns N' Roses.

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members. Saying Slash is not an original member since it's not called Slash N' Roses is just plain silly.

Silly is the only argument left when you have no other leg to stand on.

[The Sandman]

You misunderstood my meaning. The name comprises of three words (okay, two and an 'N'). Ergo, Guns N' Roses is a name. Comprenez? What I meant is what is behind the name, it's the people who make it what it is. The name itself was created by the original incarnation of the band, pushed forward by Axl, Tracii and Izzy. There is no 'Slash' in Guns N' Roses.

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members. Saying Slash is not an original member since it's not called Slash N' Roses is just plain silly.

Silly is the only argument left when you have no other leg to stand on.

Thank you.

The original Guns N' Roses were:

Axl Rose

Tracii Guns

Izzy Straddlin'

Ole Beich (RIP)

Rob Gardner

[moreblack]

I guess the conflict arises when not everybody's heard of any GNR lineup before AFD...

[worldwideboss]

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members.

You're damn wrong.

Guns N' Roses comes from L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose, not Tracii Guns and Axl Rose. Guns, Gardner and Beich were from L.A. Guns, Rose and Stradlin from Hollywood Rose.

[Patience 4 Axl]

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members.

You're damn wrong.

Guns N' Roses comes from L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose, not Tracii Guns and Axl Rose. Guns, Gardner and Beich were from L.A. Guns, Rose and Stradlin from Hollywood Rose.

How am I damn wrong? This wasn't my half-assed theory.

[Urlacher54]

You misunderstood my meaning. The name comprises of three words (okay, two and an 'N'). Ergo, Guns N' Roses is a name. Comprenez? What I meant is what is behind the name, it's the people who make it what it is. The name itself was created by the original incarnation of the band, pushed forward by Axl, Tracii and Izzy. There is no 'Slash' in Guns N' Roses.

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members. Saying Slash is not an original member since it's not called Slash N' Roses is just plain silly.

Silly is the only argument left when you have no other leg to stand on.

Thank you.

The original Guns N' Roses were:

Axl Rose

Tracii Guns

Izzy Straddlin'

Ole Beich (RIP)

Rob Gardner

You're welcome. Unfortunately, I wasn't supporting you.

I've yet to see the CD with Axl, Tracii, Izzy, Ole, and Rob on it, and I was fairly sure I have all of their albums to date. While what you say is technically true I suppose, it is also a pretty weak attempt to justify the current band as GNR - Axl saying it is GNR is a much better stance than yours is.

[The Sandman]

You misunderstood my meaning. The name comprises of three words (okay, two and an 'N'). Ergo, Guns N' Roses is a name. Comprenez? What I meant is what is behind the name, it's the people who make it what it is. The name itself was created by the original incarnation of the band, pushed forward by Axl, Tracii and Izzy. There is no 'Slash' in Guns N' Roses.

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members. Saying Slash is not an original member since it's not called Slash N' Roses is just plain silly.

Silly is the only argument left when you have no other leg to stand on.

Thank you.

The original Guns N' Roses were:

Axl Rose

Tracii Guns

Izzy Straddlin'

Ole Beich (RIP)

Rob Gardner

You're welcome. Unfortunately, I wasn't supporting you.

Well, you still backed it up, technically

I've yet to see the CD with Axl, Tracii, Izzy, Ole, and Rob on it, and I was fairly sure I have all of their albums to date. While what you say is technically true I suppose, it is also a pretty weak attempt to justify the current band as GNR - Axl saying it is GNR is a much better stance than yours is.

Is it all about albums? Record sales? Is that all that matters to people nowadays?

Edited October 17, 2006 by The Sandman

[worldwideboss]

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members.

You're damn wrong.

Guns N' Roses comes from L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose, not Tracii Guns and Axl Rose. Guns, Gardner and Beich were from L.A. Guns, Rose and Stradlin from Hollywood Rose.

How am I damn wrong? This wasn't my half-assed theory.

"If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed."

[Patience 4 Axl]

You misunderstood my meaning. The name comprises of three words (okay, two and an 'N'). Ergo, Guns N' Roses is a name. Comprenez? What I meant is what is behind the name, it's the people who make it what it is. The name itself was created by the original incarnation of the band, pushed forward by Axl, Tracii and Izzy. There is no 'Slash' in Guns N' Roses.

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members. Saying Slash is not an original member since it's not called Slash N' Roses is just plain silly.

Silly is the only argument left when you have no other leg to stand on.

Thank you.

The original Guns N' Roses were:

Axl Rose

Tracii Guns

Izzy Straddlin'

Ole Beich (RIP)

Rob Gardner

You're welcome. Unfortunately, I wasn't supporting you.

I've yet to see the CD with Axl, Tracii, Izzy, Ole, and Rob on it, and I was fairly sure I have all of their albums to date. While what you say is technically true I suppose, it is also a pretty weak attempt to justify the current band as GNR - Axl saying it is GNR is a much better stance than yours is.

Correct.

If Axl thought any of those members (Tracii, whoever and whoever) were really Guns N' Roses, he would have blackmailed them for the rights to the name as well.

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members.

You're damn wrong.

Guns N' Roses comes from L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose, not Tracii Guns and Axl Rose. Guns, Gardner and Beich were from L.A. Guns, Rose and Stradlin from Hollywood Rose.

How am I damn wrong? This wasn't my half-assed theory.

"If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed."

Quoting me again isn't helping your arguement.

[The Sandman]

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members.

You're damn wrong.

Guns N' Roses comes from L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose, not Tracii Guns and Axl Rose. Guns, Gardner and Beich were from L.A. Guns, Rose and Stradlin from Hollywood Rose.

How am I damn wrong? This wasn't my half-assed theory.

"If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed."

Quoting me again isn't helping your arguement.

Yes it does, it undermines what you said before. You contradicted yourself lady.

[Patience 4 Axl]

No I didn't, boy.

[worldwideboss]

You misunderstood my meaning. The name comprises of three words (okay, two and an 'N'). Ergo, Guns N' Roses is a name. Comprenez? What I meant is what is behind the name, it's the people who make it what it is. The name itself was created by the original incarnation of the band, pushed forward by Axl, Tracii and Izzy. There is no 'Slash' in Guns N' Roses.

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members. Saying Slash is not an original member since it's not called Slash N' Roses is just plain silly.

Silly is the only argument left when you have no other leg to stand on.

Thank you.

The original Guns N' Roses were:

Axl Rose

Tracii Guns

Izzy Straddlin'

Ole Beich (RIP)

Rob Gardner

You're welcome. Unfortunately, I wasn't supporting you.

I've yet to see the CD with Axl, Tracii, Izzy, Ole, and Rob on it, and I was fairly sure I have all of their albums to date. While what you say is technically true I suppose, it is also a pretty weak attempt to justify the current band as GNR - Axl saying it is GNR is a much better stance than yours is.

Correct.

If Axl thought any of those members (Tracii, whoever and whoever) were really Guns N' Roses, he would have blackmailed them for the rights to the name as well.

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members.

You're damn wrong.

Guns N' Roses comes from L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose, not Tracii Guns and Axl Rose. Guns, Gardner and Beich were from L.A. Guns, Rose and Stradlin from Hollywood Rose.

How am I damn wrong? This wasn't my half-assed theory.

"If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed."

Quoting me again isn't helping your arguement.

You should read your own post again.

[Mr Estranged]

You misunderstood my meaning. The name comprises of three words (okay, two and an 'N'). Ergo, Guns N' Roses is a name. Comprenez? What I meant is what is behind the name, it's the people who make it what it is. The name itself was created by the original incarnation of the band, pushed forward by Axl, Tracii and Izzy. There is no 'Slash' in Guns N' Roses.

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members. Saying Slash is not an original member since it's not called Slash N' Roses is just plain silly.

Silly is the only argument left when you have no other leg to stand on.

Thank you.

The original Guns N' Roses were:

Axl Rose

Tracii Guns

Izzy Straddlin'

Ole Beich (RIP)

Rob Gardner

That really is a stupid argument, the line up that made the name famous originally, wrote more or less the whole catalogue and played on the albums (containing original material) is the line up that counts, while there may be variation in the drummers, the band's line up was reasonably consistant in the 4 albums of ORIGINAL material it realised durring its existence.

That line up (excluding the drummer for argument sake) is by all accounts guns n roses, being a band not a solo artist, meaning that the entity is to be considered plural not singuler (i.e more than one member), therefore, the line up of Axl, Slash, Izzy and Duff should be considered Guns N Roses, as all these members were responsible for its complete catalogue and name recognition.

Meaning that the present incarnation, no matter how good it is (and it is good) can never be considered Guns N Roses because it lacks 3 of the core members and bearing in mind that a band is only considered a band by the collection of its members. To accept this band as Guns N Roses would be to believe that Guns N Roses only ever consisted of one core member, who wrote all the music (like a solo artist) and was responsible entirely for the names success, this of course is a fallacy, because the GNR enitity can only exist with the four core members not soley Axl and some friends hes made.

This is not an attack on this band, they're quite good, this post is merely making the point that their name doesn't represent the content, this is not guns n roses.

[Patience 4 Axl]

You should read your own post again.

AND?

My post you quoted was in RESPONSE to someone else's post.

You only quoted my post and not the one I responded to, and then proceed to tell me I'm damn wrong.

I don't need to read it again. I know what I wrote. Maybe you should read it again and know what you're quoting.

[VICHY]

The original Guns N' Roses were:

Axl Rose

Tracii Guns

Izzy Straddlin'

Ole Beich (RIP)

Rob Gardner

Thats it. Its simular with the heritage of pink floyd, Syd Barret was important to them as Rob and Tracii was to GNR.

[Mr Estranged]

The original Guns N' Roses were:

Axl Rose

Tracii Guns

Izzy Straddlin'

Ole Beich (RIP)

Rob Gardner

Thats it. Its simular with the heritage of pink floyd, Syd Barret was important to them as Rob and Tracii was to GNR.

that really is kind of thick, sid barrett recorded albums with pink floyd and was influential in the creation of their initial sound, that line up with the exception of rose and straddlin, played only a few gigs then disappeared, having left no mark...

[The Sandman]

You misunderstood my meaning. The name comprises of three words (okay, two and an 'N'). Ergo, Guns N' Roses is a name. Comprenez? What I meant is what is behind the name, it's the people who make it what it is. The name itself was created by the original incarnation of the band, pushed forward by Axl, Tracii and Izzy. There is no 'Slash' in Guns N' Roses.

If that's your argument as to who the original members of the band were, then it's flawed. If you're going to take the literal meaning of the name Guns N' Roses, then you would see that there is no 'Izzy' in that name, no 'Rob', and no 'Ole' yet you would list them as original members. Saying Slash is not an original member since it's not called Slash N' Roses is just plain silly.

Silly is the only argument left when you have no other leg to stand on.

Thank you.

The original Guns N' Roses were:

Axl Rose

Tracii Guns

Izzy Straddlin'

Ole Beich (RIP)

Rob Gardner

That really is a stupid argument, the line up that made the name famous originally, wrote more or less the whole catalogue and played on the albums (containing original material) is the line up that counts, while there may be variation in the drummers, the band's line up was reasonably consistant in the 4 albums of ORIGINAL material it realised durring its existence.

That line up (excluding the drummer for argument sake) is by all accounts guns n roses, being a band not a solo artist, meaning that the entity is to be considered plural not singuler (i.e more than one member), therefore, the line up of Axl, Slash, Izzy and Duff should be considered Guns N Roses, as all these members were responsible for its complete catalogue and name recognition.

Meaning that the present incarnation, no matter how good it is (and it is good) can never be considered Guns N Roses because it lacks 3 of the core members and bearing in mind that a band is only considered a band by the collection of its members. To accept this band as Guns N Roses would be to believe that Guns N Roses only ever consisted of one core member, who wrote all the music (like a solo artist) and was responsible entirely for the names success, this of course is a fallacy, because the GNR enitity can only exist with the four core members not soley Axl and some friends hes made.

This is not an attack on this band, they're quite good, this post is merely making the point that their name doesn't represent the content, this is not guns n roses.

Again, in your opinion.

However, what is fact is that:

Guns N' Roses was started by:

Axl Rose

Izzy Straddlin'

Tracii Guns

Ole Beich (RIP)

Rob Gardner

Then, Appetite Era:

A.Rose

Slash

Izzy

Duff

Adler

UYI

A.Rose

Slash

Izzy/Gilby

Duff

Sorum

D.Reed

TSI?

A.Rose

Slash

Gilby

Duff

Sorum

Reed

Post-TSI? 01/02

Rose

Finck

Huge

Buckethead

Stinson

Freese

Reed

Pittman

02 - 06

Rose

Finck

Fortus

Bumblefoot

Stinson

Brain

Reed

Pittman

The above, is FACT.

[Mr Estranged]

Finck

Fortus

Bumblefoot

Stinson

Brain

Pittman

Tracii Guns

Ole Beich (RIP)

Rob Gardner

if any of these called themselves GNR without Axl would you call them GNR also...if you would, fair enough thats your opinion, its stupid, but its yours, however if you wouldnt call them GNR then tell me, why not?

what is GNR?

[SylvesterStallone]

This is all just a song and dance routine to discredit the AFD lineup of the credit they deserve and their legacy. What better slap in their face than to say that they weren't the original founding members of the band?

Some New Guns fans will go to extreme lengths and use all kinds of technicalities to prove their point. But the real truth is, nobody knows or cares who the fuck Ole Beich, Traci Gunns, and Rob Gardener were. They played 5 shows! they were in the band for 2 months! Founding members? More like tryouts who didn't make the cut. They recorded no music and that ofcourse = no band.

You know Duff and Matt were also in New GnR at one point and were presented with Oh My God to work on and I guess they must be founding members of New Guns too! Oh yeah don't forget Paul Huge the original rhythm guitarist of New Guns!

[The Sandman]

This is all just a song and dance routine to discredit the AFD lineup of the credit they deserve and their legacy. What better slap in their face than to say that they weren't the original founding members of the band?

Some New Guns fans will go to extreme lengths and use all kinds of technicalities to prove their point. But the real truth is, nobody knows or cares who the fuck Ole Beich, Traci Gunns, and Rob Gardener were. They played 5 shows! they were in the band for 2 months! Founding members? More like tryouts who didn't make the cut. They recorded no music and that ofcourse = no band.

You know Duff and Matt were also in New GnR at one point and were presented with Oh My God to work on and I guess they must be founding members of New Guns too! Oh yeah don't forget Paul Huge the original rhythm guitarist of New Guns!

Few points:

New Guns isn't a new entitity, it's still Guns N' Roses. Fact.

They weren't the original members of the band, so you can deliver them a slap curtesy of history.

Slash couldn't make the grade for Poison. Pff. That's poor.

f any of these called themselves GNR without Axl would you call them GNR also...if you would, fair enough thats your opinion, its stupid, but its yours, however if you wouldnt call them GNR then tell me, why not?

what is GNR?

But they're not Gn'R are they? Gn'R is Axl and whoever he chooses to pay or wants to play for him. Don't say, it's just a band then, doing covers. Because, Slash and co did the same. Fact.

Currently Guns N' Roses is a group containing:

Axl Rose

Finck

Fortus

Thal

Pittman

Reed

Brain

Stinson.

If Axl chooses to leave, it'll still be Guns N' Roses, and it may be hollow, but it's still Guns nonetheless.

Edited October 17, 2006 by The Sandman

[worldwideboss]

Slash couldn't make the grade for Poison. Pff. That's poor.

He was picked, he just didn't want to give up his hair and his top hat.

[The Sandman]

Slash couldn't make the grade for Poison. Pff. That's poor.

He was picked, he just didn't want to give up his hair and his top hat.

He was one of 3 candidates, but they didn't want him.

[moreblack]

If Axl chooses to leave, it'll still be Guns N' Roses, and it may be hollow, but it's still Guns nonetheless.

it's kinda hollow now...